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Know your BFEE: Eugenics and the NAZIs - The California Connection

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:28 AM
Original message
Know your BFEE: Eugenics and the NAZIs - The California Connection
Some DUers don't like "conspiracy theories." Here's some conspiracy FACT: The BFEE is in bed with NAZIs. They both believe themselves to be the Master Race. Here's some history on how they got "that way."

BTW: The author is an award-winning New York Times investigative reporter.

Eugenics and the Nazis -- the California connection

by Edwin Black
Sunday, November 9, 2003

Hitler and his henchmen victimized an entire continent and exterminated millions in his quest for a so-called Master Race.

But the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race didn't originate with Hitler. The idea was created in the United States, and cultivated in California, decades before Hitler came to power. California eugenicists played an important, although little-known, role in the American eugenics movement's campaign for ethnic cleansing.

Eugenics was the pseudoscience aimed at "improving" the human race. In its extreme, racist form, this meant wiping away all human beings deemed "unfit," preserving only those who conformed to a Nordic stereotype. Elements of the philosophy were enshrined as national policy by forced sterilization and segregation laws, as well as marriage restrictions, enacted in 27 states. In 1909, California became the third state to adopt such laws. Ultimately, eugenics practitioners coercively sterilized some 60,000 Americans, barred the marriage of thousands, forcibly segregated thousands in "colonies," and persecuted untold numbers in ways we are just learning. Before World War II, nearly half of coercive sterilizations were done in California, and even after the war, the state accounted for a third of all such surgeries.

California was considered an epicenter of the American eugenics movement. During the 20th century's first decades, California's eugenicists included potent but little-known race scientists, such as Army venereal disease specialist Dr. Paul Popenoe, citrus magnate Paul Gosney, Sacramento banker Charles Goethe, as well as members of the California state Board of Charities and Corrections and the University of California Board of Regents.

Eugenics would have been so much bizarre parlor talk had it not been for extensive financing by corporate philanthropies, specifically the Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Harriman railroad fortune. They were all in league with some of America's most respected scientists from such prestigious universities as Stanford, Yale, Harvard and Princeton. These academicians espoused race theory and race science, and then faked and twisted data to serve eugenics' racist aims.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for this, Octafish!
More than ever people need to understand that FASCISM is not something that happened somewhere else a long time ago. Here is something I wrote and sent out to my email list yesterday. I posted it to DU but there is too much excitement for it to garner much attention:

Dear friends,
On November 2 we wont be voting for anything like the measure of change we deserve the chance to vote for. We will be casting our ballots in a referendum on whether we wish to pause and reconsider our march toward a homegrown American fascism. --Steve Perry.
Part of the problem with such strongly worded statements is that most Americans see them as EXAGERATIONS--too extreme to be taken seriously. However, what most Americans don't realize is that the Corporate owned media streams through which we get the majority of our information is a SYSTEM that, although it may allow strongly divergent OPINIONS, seldom discusses or reveals the nature, origin and growth of the system itself.

For example, without a clear understanding of what fascism is (government in the service of elitist owned corporate money using nationalism, religion and/or racism, augmented by fear, as a means of social manipulation and control)--without an awareness that the rise of fascism in Europe, especially Nazism in Germany, was to a large extent funded by wealthy U.S. families (Bush, Walker, Dulles, Hearst, Mellon, DuPont, Morgan, Rockefeller, etc.) and their banks and corporations (IBM, GE, DuPont, Ford, IT&T, Standard Oil <Exxon>, Union Bank, etc.), it is very easy to disregard the concern expressed in the statement above as "merely" alarmist. One has to understand that fascism isn't something rooted solely in pre WWII Europe but also has deep roots in some of the wealthiest and most established families right here in the US--the Bush family preeminent among them.

Fascism isn't suddenly appearing in America. In its racist form it has been a thread of the American enterprise from the very beginning (what white settlers did 250 years ago is no different than what we are doing in Iraq today: demonizing and murdering an indigenous population to steal their wealth, land and resources for our use). More recently, at least since WWII, fascist agents in the more modern sense have been at work undermining our Constitution from within the highly secret confines of the National Security State--an edifice they created to counter the threat of Communism here and abroad. It is not at all by chance that George Herbert Walker Bush, the son of one of Hitler's financiers, Prescott Bush, and the father of our current (albeit illegitimate) President, George W. Bush, was a director of the CIA before becoming a very active vice-President running such enterprises as Iran-Contra (drugs, guns, oil, money) beyond the purview of Ronald Reagan's presidency. There is no mystery or exaggeration here for those with eyes to see. Many of the same players that were at work then are at work today.

In the next few days I will be emailing information that will show that the concern expressed in the quote above is not only NOT alarmist, it is probably an understatement. I will provide you with information that strongly suggests that a large segment of the United States Government today is in the hands of fascists whose hidden aim is to create the conditions necessary for the utter destruction of the United States and its Constitution. This is what is at stake.

Those of you who know me personally know that I do not utter such accusations lightly and that I have a fairly clear idea what this could mean for us all. I can not predict the future with any certainty, although I can make educated guesses. But long before any conjecture is warranted, there remains the question of what IS taking place at this moment. How can we begin to understand that a large portion of the government of the United States of America has quite literally been taken over by a bevy of murderous criminals and traitors wearing business suits with ties and American flag lapel pins--and yet we've been told virtually nothing about it? How can we understand that this is not a recent turn of events but is a mostly untold history that has been developing for a very long time? Hopefully in the days to come you will begin to have these questions answered.

One last point: In order to understand what is actually taking place around us today, it is necessary to begin to turn things UPSIDE DOWN in our minds. For example, many pundits speak of the failures of the Bush administration--such as the way "No Child Left Behind" is bankrupting our public schools. What we need to begin to grasp is that although some of these "policy failures" are, indeed, failures from the point of view of their stated intention, from the point of view of a completely different agenda many of these "failures" may actually be strategic successes. What we are witnessing around us are not only egregious errors in judgement but also a systematic alteration of the whole cloth of the American social fabric.

Even as stated this is too abstract for most of us to grasp so let me be more blunt: The whole of our perception of social reality is being manipulated so we will see the world a certain way and, there by, behave according to the wishes of those who are shaping that perception. We are being lied to, often and repeatedly. We are being readied for the kill by deceivers who create the conditions that terrorize us into accepting their solutions to the problems they create. I'll remind you of Ron Suskind quoting an unnamed White House source (most likely Karl Rove) in a 10.18.04 New York Sunday Magazine article:
"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
This point of view is at the heart of the very real threat of fascism in this country today. This new fascism will not look like the fascism of the last century with jack-boots and swastikas--at least not at first. First it will wrap itself in the American flag of patriotism and profess its faith in a false "Christianity" that is the exact antithesis of the real teaching behind Christ's words. It will look like a well-armed and ruthless CORPORATE OWNED and OUTSOURCED SECURITY FORCE abroad, and ultimately, eventually right here at home. It will look like a series of real emergencies repeatedly broadcast in technicolor horror 24/7 in our living rooms brought about by covert operatives presented by the media as alien "terrorists" who "hate us for our freedom". It will look like a system of "Homeland Security" that does not protect this nation or its citizens but protects the SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE that brought it about.

In short, the United States Government as established by the Constitution has been hijacked and we the hapless abductees are being flown headlong into the stone wall of history. At this very moment, decisions that will effect our lives for generations to come are being made completely outside the channels established in the Constitution for our protection against such tyranny. The election immediately before us will be the most important election of our lives--but not for the reasons we are given by the Corporate owned media. Even with the best of outcomes the struggle before us will have only just begun because the real threat to our national security is embedded SYSTEMATICALLY within the mechanisms of the Corporate run National Security State itself.

Feel free to pass this on to others with an interest.


my real name
Posted 10/13/04; 9:46:42 AM
Sunday, October 10, 2004

Why We Fight

What is, and isn't, at stake in beating Bush

Sometimes the truth just aint enough
Or its too much in times like this

--Bruce Springsteen, "Worlds Apart"

...Democrat or otherwise, those of us who want to see Bush go at practically any cost will err greatly if we forget the central question that has hung over Election 2004 like a shroud: Why, after four years of egregious lies, failure, and cronyism on the part of a president who is more widely despised than polls skewed toward registered and likely voters will ever apprehend, is this a race at all?

There is no way to discuss this matter sensibly without first discarding some of our most treasured myths about American politics. Put simply, the Democrats are not a real opposition party (only consider the ease with which they swallowed Bushs outrages as they were occurring) and the mass media are not remotely critical of power. A huge and mostly invisible segment of the populace is angry and frightened, less by Osama bin Laden than by what might happen if they get sick or lose their jobs. What passes for public discourse washes over them like a narcotic haze and leaves them feeling left out and bamboozled, powerless, as it is supposed to; thanks to the ministrations of media and the steady erosion of public schools for more than a generation now, the American public is probably more ill-informed than at any time since the 19th century.

This state of affairs informs the real spirit of the Bush/Cheney government, the campaign slogan youll never see on a bumper sticker--BC04: Because Youll Believe Anything. In four years the only thing the Bush White House has done well is to generate a massive volume of propaganda. As former Marine intelligence officer Andrew Borene says elsewhere in this issue>, part of the disaster of Iraq stemmed from the Bushmens obsession with spinning the war to the folks at home. Team Rove has stuck to its stories, or changed them in nakedly peremptory fashion to suit the occasion, with unblinking resolve. (Goebbels pronounced the last word on the subject: "The rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious.")

More at link above.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Song of Choice

Early every year the seeds are growing
Unseen, unheard they lie beneath the ground
Would you know before their leaves are showing
That with weeds all your garden will abound?

If you close your eyes, stop your ears
Shut your mouth then how can you know ?
For seeds you cannot hear may not be there
Seeds you cannot see may never grow

In January you've still got the choice
You can cut the weeds before they start to bud
If you leave them to grow high they'll silence your voice
And in December you may pay with your blood

So close your eyes, stop your ears,
Shut your mouth and take it slow
Let others take the lead and you bring up the rear
And later you can say you didn't know

Every day another vulture takes flight
There's another danger born every morning
In the darkness of your blindness the beast will learn to bite
How can you fight if you can't recognise a warning?

Today you may earn a living wage
Tomorrow you may be on the dole
Though there's millions going hungry you needn't disengage
For it's them, not you, that's fallen in the hole

It's alright for you if you run with the pack
It's alright if you agree with all they do
If fascism is slowly climbing back
It's not here yet so what's it got to do with you?

The weeds are all around us and they're growing
It'll soon be too late for the knife
If you leave them on the wind that around the world is blowing
You may pay for your silence with your life

So close your eyes, stop your ears,
Shut your mouth and never dare
And if it happens here they'll never come for you
Because they'll know you really didn't care

Peggy Seeger
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Your welcome, beam_me_up! Yours is an outstanding reply and letter....
Wow! Thank you for an outstanding reply and letter, beam_me_up! From your post:

We are being readied for the kill by deceivers who create the conditions that terrorize us into accepting their solutions to the problems they create. I'll remind you of Ron Suskind quoting an unnamed White House source (most likely Karl Rove) in a 10.18.04 New York Sunday Magazine article:

"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

That "Without a Doubt" NYT Magazine article is one of the most important pieces to be published this year. Too bad more don't have their eyes opened by it -- Tweety Mathews seemed surprised to discover the central premise last night on "Hardball." Suskind paints an accurate picture of Bush as a creature who believes the voices in his head represent God's own voice. No wonder the guy thinks it's OK to murder innocent women and children, "God told him to do it." The prisons (and fewer and fewer psych wards) are filled with such. an eye-opening picture.

Here's a bit more on the subject you brought up from Greg Palast:

The New Educational Eugenics in George Bush's State of the Union

Greg Palast January 27 2004

Go ahead, George, and lie to me. Lie to my dog. Lie to my sister. But don't you ever lie to my kids.

Deep into your State of the Siege lecture, long after sensible adults had turned off the tube or kicked in the screen, you came after our children. "By passing the No Child Left Behind Act," you said, "We are regularly testing every child ... and making sure they have better options when schools are not performing."

You said it ... and then that little tongue came out; that weird way you stick your tongue out between your lips like the little kid who knows he's fibbing. Like a snake licking a rat. I saw that snakey tongue dart out and I thought, "He knows."

And what you know, Mr. Bush, is this: you've ordered this testing to hunt down, identify and target for destruction the hopes of millions of children you find too expensive, too heavy a burden, to educate.


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Oops. Meant to say "You're welcome." Anyway ...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. The Passing of a Great Race by American eugenicist Madison Grant
The Passing of a Great Race by American eugenicist Madison Grant

Against the mongrelization of the submerged tenth, the eugenicists posed the purity of the Nordic races. Peoples of the north, they held, had forged their superiority over generations through the struggle to survive in severe environments. The weaker members had long been eliminated by natural selection.

This was set out in texts like The Passing of a Great Race by American eugenicist Madison Grant, which Hitler read while imprisoned in the mid '20s for inciting mob violence.

(The German translation was published by Hitler's co-conspirator Julius Lehman; Hitler even wrote Grant a fan letter declaring the book his "Bible.")


Edwin Black wrote the previous bestseller IBM and the Holocaust. His latest book is, "War Against the Weak: America's Crusade to Create a Superior Race," which tells the history of how 60,000 poor minorities were forcibly sterilized in the first half of the twentieth century.

The leaders in the German sterilization movement state repeatedly that their legislation was formulated after careful study of the California experiment as reported by Mr. Gosney and Dr. Popenoe. It would have been impossible, they say, to understake such a venture involving some 1 million people without drawing heavily upon previous experience elsewhere." (2) Who is Dr. Paul Popenoe? He was a leader in the U.S. eugenics movement and wrote (1933) the article 'Eugenic Sterilization' in the journal (BCR) that Margaret Sanger started. How many Americans did Dr. Popenoe estimate should be subjected to sterilization? Between five million and ten million Americans. "The situation will grow worse instead of better if steps are not taken to control the reproduction of mentally handicapped. Eugenic sterilization represents one such step that is practicable, humanitarian, and certain in its results." (3)

Three months before the German 'sterilization law' was passed, Rudin's "Eugenic Sterilization: An Urgent Need" article was published in the journal (BCR) Margaret Sanger started and continued to influence until its demise in 1940.

The plans of Adolf Hitler and the German Nazis to create a Nordic "master race" are often looked upon as a horrific but fairly isolated effort. Less notice has historically been given to the American eugenics movement of the 19th and early 20th centuries. Although their methods were less violent, the methodology and rationale which the American eugenicists employed, as catalogued in Edwin Black's Against the Weak, were chilling nonetheless and, in fact, influential in the mindset of Hitler himself. Funded and supported by several well-known wealthy donors, including the Rockefeller and Carnegie families and Alexander Graham Bell, the eugenicists believed that the physically impaired and "feeble-minded" should be subject to forced sterilization in order to create a stronger species and incur less social spending. These "defective" humans generally ended up being poorer folks who were sometimes categorized as such after shockingly arbitrary or capricious means ! such as failing a quiz related to pop culture by not knowing where the Pierce Arrow was manufactured. The list of groups and agencies conducting eugenics research was long, from the U.S. Army and the Departments of Labor and Agriculture to organizations with names like the "American Breeders Association." Black's detailed research into the history of the American eugenics movement is admirably extensive, but it is in the association between the beliefs of some members of the American aristocracy and Hitler that the book becomes most chilling. Black goes on to trace the evolution of eugenic thinking as it evolves into what is now called genetics. And while modern thinkers have thankfully discarded the pseudo-science of eugenics, such controversial modern issues as human cloning make one wonder how our own era will be remembered a hundred years hence. --John Moe

Banking on Baghdad: Inside Iraq's 7,000-Year History of War, Profit, and Conflict

Edwin Black
ISBN: 0-471-67186-X
400 pages
September 2004

New York Times and international bestselling author Edwin Black uncovers Iraqs hidden economy and the companies that profit from its upheaval
Big business and global warfare have long been fiery and symbiotic forces in Iraq. Banking on Baghdad tells the dramatic and tragic history of a land long the center of world commerceand documents the many ways Iraqs recent history mirrors its tumultuous past. Tracing the involvement

of Western governments and militaries, as well as oil, banking, and other corporate interests in Iraq, Black shows that today, just as yesterday, the world needs Iraqs resourcesand is always willing to fight and invade in order to acquire and protect them.

While demonstrating that Iraq itself is partially to blame for its current state of turmoil, Black does not shy away from the uncomfortable truth that war and profit have also played an equal part in creating the Iraq we know today. Just as he did in IBM and the Holocaust, Black exposes the hidden associations between leading corporations, war, and oilsuch as the astonishing connections between Nazi Germany, Iraq, and the Holocaust.

He exposes the war and race-based profiteering by some of the worlds most prestigious corporations, as well as the political and economic ties between the Bush administration and the companies that gain handsomely from its foreign policy. Just as he did in War Against the Weak, Black offers a compelling blend of history and contemporary investigative journalism that spans a century and eschews easy answers for complicated questions.

Edwin Black (Washington, DC) is the award-winning New York Times bestselling author of IBM and the Holocaust, The Transfer Agreement, and War Against the Weak. His journalism has appeared in the Washington Post, The Village Voice, The Sunday Times (of London), and The Los Angeles Times.


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. You know the author.
Then again, seemslikeadream knows everybody.

Here's someone all DUers should know:

In 1931, Dr. Cornelius Rhoads (sometimes spelled: "Rhode") began the Puerto Rican Cancer Experiment, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations. Rhode infected Puerto Ricans -- human beings -- with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients ...



In 1931, Cornelius Rhoads, a North American pathologist at the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations in San Juan, carried out a murderous "experiment" in which 13 Puerto Ricans died after being purposely infected with cancer. In a letter to another doctor, leaked to the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party, Rhoads wrote: "the Porto Ricans are beyond doubt the dirtiest, laziest, most degenerate and thievish race of men ever inhabiting this sphere. It makes you sick to inhabit the same island with them. What the island needs is not public health work, but a tidal wave or something to totally exterminate the population. It might then be liveable. I have done my best to further the process of extermination by killing off eight and transplanting cancer into several more. The latter has not resulted in any fatalities so far.... The matter of consideration for the patients' welfare plays no role here - in fact, all physicians take delight in the abuse and torture of the unfortunate subjects".

When the case was brought to the press by Don Pedro Albizu Campos (the Nationalist Party President), the North American Governor of Puerto Rico had a prosecutor investigate the charge. Rhoads never denied writing the letter, but despite evidence proving that 13 patients had died, eight of whom were treated by Rhoads, the prosecutor exonerated Rhoads, calling him merely "a mentally ill person or a man with few scruples."

However, this "mentally ill person" went on to direct the establishment of US Army chemical warfare laboratories in Maryland, Utah, and the Panama Canal Zone, for which he was awarded the Legion of Merit in 1945. That same year, Rhoads was appointed to the staff of the US Atomic Energy Commission. The Commission was at that time carrying out radiation experiments on unwitting prisoners, hospital patients and soldiers.

Meanwhile, a 1950 Puerto Rican Nationalist insurrection led to the arrest of hundreds of activists, including Don Pedro Albizu. The prisoners later charged they were experimented on with drugs. According to Nationalist Party leaders, Rhoads was finally getting his revenge for Albizu's earlier murder charge. Albizu was denounced by US and local colonial officials as a lunatic, but doctors eventually supported his charges. His health steadily deteriorated, and he died shortly after his release from prison in 1965. Subsequent documents have supported both his original murder charges and his allegations of radiation poisoning.


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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. Puerto Rican women were also used as guinea pigs in
the trials of the first birth control pills, with often disastrous results. There was an organized and official program to reduce the population of the island in the late 50s and early 60s, IIRC, to be accomplished through forced abortion, sterilization, and compulsory birth control.

Poor women who saw the ability to limit the size of their families as one way to help them move out of poverty were willing to participate, but they were never told the whole truth.

And if you think it stopped in the 60s, don't forget that Tom Coburn, who is running for the Senate from Oklahoma, has admitted he aborted and/or sterilized a young woman against her will in the early 1990s.

Wish I had links to all this at my fingertips, but it's early in the morning. . ..
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. Like the NAZIs, BFEE pricks treat the poor as "Untermenschen."
Thanks for the heads-up on the involuntary birth-control trials. These criminals, like the turd Tom Coburn, are lower than low. What they did and do is monstrous. Perhaps one day, they will ALL face judgment by those they've wronged. Until then, let's have at 'em.

Here's one of Satan's favorite bedfellows, the speechwriter for the disgraced veep Spiro T Agnew:

Puerto Rican Statehood: A Path to Disunion

by Patrick J. Buchanan
February 26, 1998

Why are Republicans pushing it? The politics of pander aside, there is money involved. Transnational corporations want another large pool of low-wage labor near the United States, so they can unload more of their high-paid American workers. So they have rented out the services of "conservative" lobbyists...
Well, our giant panderers are at it again.

Anticipating an outpouring of enthusiasm from 25 million Hispanics, our poll-whipped Republican Party is about to push Puerto Rico onto the path to statehood. Prediction: If Puerto Rico becomes a state, the GOP reward will be six new Democrats in the House and two in the Senate. Justice for the GOP, but a tragedy for America. We would be on the same road to national crack-up as Britain, Canada, Italy and India.

Are Republicans blind? Do they not see the war going on for the soul of America? Hispanic separatists and irredentists are fiercely resisting any assimilation into an "Anglo" nation and culture they see as racist. Their number and influence are growing.

If Puerto Rico, where but 20 percent of the people speak English and only 16 percent identify themselves as Americans, becomes a state, the United States will become two nations. Carlos Romero-Barcelo, current congressional delegate from Puerto Rico, has said that if Puerto Rico comes in, its legislature will declare the island bilingual or make Spanish its official language. The drive will then be on to make California, Arizona, Texas and Florida bilingual as well.


I'm sure you know that Pat the BFEE turd Buchanan tried to protect to some NAZI prison guards who'd been living as "good Americans"?


* Buchanan told Elie Wiesel that President Reagan must not surrender to "Jewish pressure" against visiting Bitburg, a German cemetery where SS men were buried. In a White House meeting with Jewish leaders, Buchanan reminded them that they were "Americans first," as fellow staffer Ed Rollins later recounted to Reagan biographer Lou Cannon. Buchanan repreatedly scrawled the phrase "Succumbing to the pressure of the Jews" on his notepad during the meeting.

* In 1990 William Buckley, Buchanan's former mentor, wrote a 20,000 word essay on Buchanan that concluded: "I find it impossible to defend Pat Buchanan against the charge" of anti-Semitism.

* Buchanan has called Hitler a "man of great courage" and extraordinary gifts."


* In an interview in Present Tense magazine, Buchanan stated that "if my friends in the Jewish community feel Pat Buchanan, a traditionalist Catholic, owes some kind of apology for the record of the Holy Father during World War II, they can wait, because it's not going to be forthcoming."

* In the Chicago Sun Times of March 1989, Buchanan criticized the West for ostracizing Kurt Waldheim. Buchanan rationalized,"like others in Hitler's army, Lt. Waldheim looked the other way." (Previously, as Secretary General of the United Nations, Waldheim had been an object of Buchanan's scorn).

Lots o' Links 'n' Quotes on this NAZI scuzzbucket:

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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yes, this is where the "leadership" class of our society is coming from...
The history is accurate. The "white upper classes" actually sought out these sorts of "genetic" or "scientific" explanations for their own self-perceptions of "superiority," and then they attempted to build upon those.

They truly believed they were more intelligent and "stronger" than other "races."

But the only real "superiority" they had was an immune system that harbored and spread very deadly diseases across the lands they "conquered," and an ethical system that was just as corrupting.

I hate to say this, because to modern sensibilities it sounds very tinfoil-hat, but I think George W. Bush and his siblings were "well bred" (or else Barbara was drinking too much...) A lot of upper class white families were consciously trying to "breed" their own lines the same way they bred horses or dogs.

There is very much left unsaid about this today in "polite" company because it sounds so horrible.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. The Human GENOME Project never met a Bush they didn't burn.
Well said, hunter. It's hard to express how much I truly appreciate an understanding of what we are up against when it comes to the BFEE.

These turds the Bushes and the rest of the slime for which they front believe God put them on Earth to Lord it over the rest of us. Gee. This country was founded 228 years ago to get away from kings and that kind of thinking.

Nowadays we have "The Da Vinci Code" and other stuff going through the public mind, making everyone feel that they just might be part of the true blue bloods. Ha! That's what Bush's big cash cow Ken Lay told the mopes at ENRON.

Oh well. Just when it seemed the subject couldn't get any worse...

The Human Genome Project and Eugenics

Author Robert Lederman


The Human Genome Project may now open the door to the development and use of genetic weapons targeted at specific ethnic groups. This project is currently being conducted under the auspices of the U.S. Energy Department, which also oversees Americas nuclear weapon arsenal.


On November 15, 1998, the London Times reported that Israel claimed to have successfully developed a genetically specific "ethnic bullet" that targets Arabs. When an Israeli government spokesman was asked to confirm the existence of ethnic weapons, he did not deny that they had them, but rather said, "we have a basket full of serious surprises that we will not hesitate to use if we feel that the state of Israel is under serious threat."

Some scientists worry that the modified genes that corporations have spliced into fish, fowl, fruit and vegetables have permanently altered the worlds food supply. Some may be intended to reduce populations.

The U.S. has a long history of interest in such genetic research. The current home of the Human Genome Project is the Cold Springs Harbor laboratory on Long Island, NYthe exact site of the notorious Eugenics Research Office that was started in 1910 by the Harriman family. The projects 1910 agenda included governmental imposition of sanctions on such human rights as reproduction, and on U.S. immigration, based on the alleged inferiority of particular ethnic groups. The Eugenics Research Project established medical and psychological conditions that would qualify one for sterilization or euthanasia. Prominent advocates of the program such as the Rockefeller family, Henry Ford, and Margaret Sanger helped smooth the way for the passage of forcible sterilization laws in 25 states. These laws allowed the forcible sterilization of tens of thousands of people, mostly of minority status, during the first half of the 20th century.

The November 1970 issue of the Military Review published an article entitled "Ethnic Weapons" for command-level military personnel. The author of the article was Dr. Carl Larson, head of the Department of Human Genetics at the Institute of Genetics in Lund, Sweden. Dr Larson wrote of how genetic variations in races are concurrent with differences in tolerances for various substances. For instance, large segments of Southeast Asian populations display a lactose intolerance due to the absence of the enzyme lactase in the digestive system. A biological weapon could conceivably take advantage of this genetic variance and incapacitate or kill an entire population.

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Incredibly important thread
Edited on Tue Oct-19-04 12:39 PM by Eloriel
I can't believe how much information is packed into about 5 posts.


Edited to add: We need an emoticon for "nominated."
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Thanks, Eloriel! Here's what a college student reported back in 2001...
Those who've followed what the BFEE are doing won't find it weird, but a lot of the stuff that used to be available on Rhodes (ch. sp.) and the rest of these turds was easy to GOOGLE. Now, it seems fewer and fewer things "Poppy" up. Anyway, from the mouths of one young person, a very good overview...

The once and future threat: cold war secrets

By Omar Ha-Redeye
Ferris State Torch

America has the most extensive knowledge of bioterrorism in the world, and for good reason. We have had the opportunity over the past century to experiment and research on countless innocent Americans.


The CIA and military were also behind a half-a-million person epidemic of dengue hemorrhagic fever during 1981 and 1983 in El Salvador, Cuba and Nicaragua. Dengue was the primary focus of research at Fort Detrick prior to 1969.

A public interest group in 1987 charged the DOD to disclose the current operation of 127 biochemical research sites nationwide. In 1994 Sen. John D. Rockefeller disclosed the DOD had conducted hundreds of thousands of experiments on military personnel, including drugs during the Gulf War.

Dr. Garth Nicolson of the Anderson Cancer Center claimed in 1994 that 45 percent of Desert Storm veterans were infected with altered biological microbes under the guise of vaccinations. By 1997, 88 members of Congress requested a signed inquiry into bioterror use and the Gulf War Syndrome. Curiously, the Gulf War microbial synthetic structure contains 40 percent of HIV's protein coat.


In our latest and current war, the Taliban claims US forces have already used bioterrorist weapons on them. DOD's Rumsfeld calls the Taliban "accomplished liars." Stufflebeem claims they will poison their own wells to frame the United States. Historical integrity may suggest reasons for "aid" drops beyond urging Afghan insurgency and promoting good public relations.

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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Two more quotes for you
``The must put the most modern medical means in the service of this knowledge.... Those who are physically and mentally unhealthy and unworthy must not perpetuate their suffering in the body of their children.... The prevention of the faculty and opportunity to procreate on the part of the physically degenerate and mentally sick, over a period of only 600 years, would ... free humanity from an immeasurable misfortune.''

``The per capita income gap between the developed and the developing countries is increasing, in large part the result of higher birth rates in the poorer countries.... Famine in India, unwanted babies in the United States, poverty that seemed to form an unbreakable chain for millions of people--how should we tackle these problems?.... It is quite clear that one of the major challenges of the 1970s ... will be to curb the world's fertility.''

One was by Adolph Hitler, the other by G. H. W. Bush

Read more here, by Webster G. Tarpley:

And I noted the reference to the "Harriman railroad fortune"...Averell Harriman? Of Brown Bros. Harriman? Prescott Bush's banking partner?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. "How fortunate for governments the people they administer...
... do not think." -- Der Schickelgrber und Der Smirkelgrber.

Yes. It's Harriman, the guy who's widow, Pamela, bankrolled Bill Clinton. The bucks really came in handy, just when it looked like Bob Kerrey was getting some traction in the librulmeedyuh.

Oh well. Oops. Meant to say: "Orwell. And Kafka, too."

Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything truly wrong, he was arrested.
Kafkas, The Trial
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. Media Scared of Bush
Edited on Tue Oct-19-04 01:42 PM by seemslikeadream

By Kurt Nimmo
Oct 19, 2004, 07:11


Its called a dictatorship with a few remnants of democracy (for instance, the First Amendment, for the moment, still stands, as evidenced by the fact I am able to write and post this, but mostly because I am a nobody blogger and absolutely no threat to the dictatorshipnot yet anyway). Im reading William L. Shirers classic, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany, and believe me the parallels between Hitler and the Bushcons are staggering. Perhaps America will one day go fascist democratically, by popular vote, Shirer told the New York Times in 1969. Consider that Kerry and Bush are supposedly neck-to-neck and you get a sense of what Shirer is talking about. Its too bad Shirer didnt live to see the Rise of the Bushcons. Heres another great Shirer quote: I dont understand what there is in the American character that almost automatically, even when we have a liberal President, we support fascist dictatorships or are tolerant towards them. Now we have a Christian Zionist reactionary president and the American people are not only tolerant of fascism abroad, many of them enthusiastically support it at home. Like the German people under Hitler, the American people under Bush have no problem with fascismso long as they can drive their SUVs and watch CSI and Law and Order. Maybe some day, after our cities are smoldering ruins and the mindless TV watchers and plastic flag-wavers are scraping the scorched earth in search of tubers for dinner, they will arrive at the same conclusions the German people did after Hitler offed himself in that bunkerthen again, maybe not (consider the rise of fascist ideas and political parties in the recent German elections).

Unfortunately, Bush will be re-elected in a few short weeks and then all hell will break loosenot only in Iraq but here in America as well. Bush and the Pentagon are waiting to get over the election hump before they begin bombing countless innocent Iraqi citizens in earnest. I believe the Bushcons know they cannot possibly hope to win the war in Iraq so they will bomb em back to the Stone Age just like the Nazis bombed Stalingrad (although they will try not to make the same mistakes the Nazis did, that is to say send thousands of soldiers into Fallujah and Samarrainstead they will simply pulverize insurgents from the air). Bush will also use tried and tested Nazi tacticsdisappearing thousands and killing innocent relatives and neighbors of the terrorists. As Jonathan Gumz writes, German combat commanders were themselves exceptionally brutal toward suspected Partisan sympathizers, killing civilians almost indiscriminately, including women and children. Such ruthlessness by both Ustasa and German units stimulated popular support for the Partisans, ironically undermining Nazi efforts against them. estimates of the number killed range from 700,000 to as many as 1.7 million.


The appeal of fascism
By Richard Risemberg
Oct 18, 2004, 23:00


Let us not put too fine a point upon it: we are in danger of reverting to fascism.

Fascism is a disease endemic in our species, a periodic fever whose tremors induce a psychosocial orgasm in its sufferers, tantalizing them with physical delusions of both security and power. Far more than its structural and functional ramifications - well illustrated by Benito Mussolini's definition of fascism as "the melding of state and corporate power" and George Orwell's fictional synopsis of a tech-enabled fascist state in Nineteen Eighty-Four - it is fascism's capacity to make a nuanced oppression seem both nurturing and empowering that makes it so dangerous. It is this nuance of fascism - more than the Big Lie techniques and the brute force fascists also employ - that makes the Bush/Cheney administration and its police and propaganda mechanisms a true threat to humanity in general and to the United States - formerly respected as an icon of liberty - specifically.

The fundamental appeal of fascism to the everyday person is threefold. It consists of:

The promise of security. Fascists typically posit threats, external and internal, that are easily identified but difficult to fight, and then promise to protect you from them - if only you will give them absolute power to do so.
Relief from uncertainty. It is no accident that Orwell had his dictator characterize himself as Big Brother. The fascist relieves you of the responsibility to make difficult decisions. You simply follow orders - given, of course, by Big Brother.
A share of strength. Most insidious, Big Brother will let you exercise power over others - as long as you exercise Big Brother's power Big Brother's way.

This last is the stroke of genius. The fascist enlists the sufferers of fascism themselves as petty dictators over those who have been designated as "below" them. And we the people are all too often eager to enlist.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Mein Herz. Mein Herz. Das flammende Herz.
You hit the fascists on the head with that one, seemslikeadream. Nothing new, just your usual excellence. Vielen dank.

For the files:

the Bush family

"If you aren't with us, you are against us"


the Bush Family --- Eugenics & Master Racism
"It is quite clear that one of the major challenges of the 1970s ... will be to curb the world's fertility." -- George Bush Sr.

"Those who are physically and mentally unhealthy and unworthy must not perpetuate their suffering in the body of their children." -- Adolph Hitler

* Bush history of sterilization

* Research on the Nazi/Bush connection through eugenics. Keywords: race hygeine

* 'Eugenics Archive' -- learn about the origins of eugenics.

* The Bush Family Unauthorized Biography by Tarpley and Chaitkin

Grandfather Bush supports the Nazi war machine.....
This is an important part of world history concerning how the Bush family helped create the Nazis by way of the Hitler project, the financing of the raw materials for the German economy and war machine.

This link explains in great detail how the granddaddy Prescott Bush along with his father-in-Law, George Walker, became the backbone of US support for the rise of the Nazis as some of their first supporters in the early 1920's. This phase in the Bush family culminated in 1942 with Prescott's conviction for trading with the enemy.

-- Tarpley on Bush

After Prescott Bush aided the rise of the Nazis, son of a Bush rode roughshod over American values for decades. Now grand-son of a Bush is acting out the ideologies of Eugenics, population control, and perverted Neo-Liberalism. These are harsh insinuations about one of the world's most powerful and respected families. How could this be true? Below is a small part of the historical evidence of why true patriots are alarmed at what is occuring in our country today.


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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Connections to the Heritage Foundation and Moon

If memory serves, the California recall of Davis was also connected.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Ya don't say!
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Connections to the Heritage Foundation and Moon
Edited on Tue Oct-19-04 03:21 PM by George_S

If memory serves, the California recall of Davis was also connected. Who funded that?

Answering my own question: Darrell Issa.
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. A religous war
Edited on Tue Oct-19-04 03:43 PM by George_S
A Report on Christianity in China
A Conversation with David Aikman
Start: Thursday, September 26, 2002
End: Thursday, September 26, 2002

David Aikman

Good News from China

"What is happening to Christianity in China, and what is happening to China because of Christianity?" At a September 26 seminar, Sinologist and journalist David Aikman reported that the search for answers to these two questions is what prompted his recent three-month journey "criss-crossing" China. During the trip, Aikman said, he had the advantage of special access to all sorts of underground Christian groups.


Center vice president Michael Cromartie moderated the conversation that followed. Several participants challenged Aikman about "the lack of horror stories."


* David Aikman

The Participants List is interesting:

George Archibald, Washington Times Kelli Arena, CNN Bryan Atchison, CatholicUniversity Chris Billing, Congressional-Executive Commission on China Jim Nelson Black, Sentinel Research Paul Borchers, Department of Labor Diane Bryhn, Office of Congressman Darrell Issa Kami Butt Leslie Carbone, freelance writer Keith Cox, Ravi Zacharias International Ministries Janice Shaw Crouse, Beverly LaHaye Institute Thomas Crowe, Center for Print and Broadcast Media Martin Davis, Philanthropy Roundtable Melody Divine, Burns, Figa, & Will, p.c. Timothy Dolch, Ethics and PublicPolicyCenter Julia Duin, Washington Times JoshEarl, Washington Times Terry Eastland, Weekly Standard Karin Finkler, Office of Congressman Joseph Pitts Hillel Fradkin, Ethics and PublicPolicyCenter Steve Garber, American Studies Program Joshua Good, Department of Labor Joshua Graham, Hands Along the Nile Leon Hadar, Cato Institute, Business Times (Singapore) Greg Headington Jeanne Heffernan, Ethics and PublicPolicyCenter Amy Hybels Peggy Jackson Paul Jensen, Office of Senator Gordon Smith David Jetter, Republican Policy Committee Bob Jones, World Grace Lee, Curtain Call Productions Rose Lemire, Office of Congressman Hostettler Alyn Levin-Hadar, Office of Senator Barbara Boxer Joe Loconte, Heritage Foundation Alan Mairson, National Geographic Paul Marshall, Freedom House Pierre Matchouda Phillip McCombs, Washington Post Amanda McCullough, Office of Congressman Hostettler Steven McFarland, Prison Fellowship International Neena Moorjani, Office of Congressman Kolbe Bill Newcott, Modern Maturity Sarah Pentz, Ethics and PublicPolicyCenter Judy Person, Washington Times Shannon Royce, Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission Mark OKeefe, Newhouse News Service Glenn Oeland, National Geographic Bruce Overton, Office of Administration Julia Overton Mary Lynn Qurnell, Office of Senator Helms Joanne Schmoll Leslie Sillars, PatrickHenryCollege Stephen Smith, DOE, Office of General Council Lisa D. Smith Dorothy Taft, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe John Tai, U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom John J. Tkacik, Jr., Heritage Foundation Mark Tooley, Institute on Religion and Democracy Kevin Vettraino, Center for Print and Broadcast Media Loredana Vuoto, Office of Senator Santorum Jen Waters, Washington Times William Wehrly Sarah Weltz, Concerned Women for America Rich Westfall, Center for Print and Broadcast Media Kathy Whitt, Bridges International Bill Wichterman, Office of Congressman Pitts Jonathan Winters, Department of Labor,programID.31/conf_detail.asp

Could the pro-life people actually be pro-eugenics?

"The question is no longer whether we will practice eugenics. We already do," Christine Rosen, of the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington wrote recently in the New Atlantis magazine. "The question is: Which forms of eugenics will we tolerate and how much will we allow the practice of eugenics to expand?"

"If we are not to repeat the errors of the past, we will need to examine modern eugenic visions with intellectual rigor," University of Maryland education professor Steve Selden wrote about eugenics.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. The Chines are our friends, as long as they buy our cars.
...and oil and are willing to control their population, of course.


Part I


Funding the Hitler Project


George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush were active in the leadership of the eugenics societies that were popular among the wealthy classes in the first half of the twentieth century. Prescott Bush was the Connecticut director of the Mental Hygiene Society which originated at Yale University in 1908. The headquarters of the American Eugenics Society was also at Yale (also home of the Order of Skull & Bones) until its relocation to and merger in 1952 with the Population Council, which was founded by John D. Rockefeller and John Foster Dulles, lawyer for Brown Brothers Harriman.

The Mental Hygiene Society of which Prescott Bush was a director was a project of the Order of Skull and Bones. The society "would evolve into the CIA's cultural engineering effort of the 1950s, the drugs and brainwashing adventure known as 'MK-Ultra' anti-American project which poured drugs into the country and worked to fabricate the drug-sex youth culture." 8.


The Mental Hygiene movement was organized into the World Federation of Mental Health by none other than Montagu Norman, Governor of the Bank of England who, with Hjalmar Schacht, the financial engineer of the Nazi rearmament program and member of the British Round Table, and Benjamin Strong of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, conspired to precipitate the Great Depression. Under Adolf Hitler, Hjalmar Schacht was appointed Minister of Economics.

"The Mental Hygiene movement was organized into the World Federation of Mental Health by Montagu Norman, former Brown Brothers partner and Bank of England Governor. Norman had appointed as the federation's chairman, Brigadier John Rawlings Rees, director of the Tavistock Psychiatric Clinic, chief psychiatrist and psychological warfare expert for the British intelligence services... The world financial crisis led to the merger of the Walker-Harriman bank with Brown Brothers in 1931. Former Brown partner Montagu Norman and his protg Hjalmar Schacht paid frantic visits to New York that year and the next, preparing the new Hitler regime for Germany." 10.

The interaction between the British, American and German Eugenics societies laid the foundation for implementation of the race purification ideology behind Hitler's Third Reich. In 1912, the First International Congress of Eugenics was held at the University of London. The president of the Congress was Major Leonard Darwin, son of Charles Darwin and one of the first English vice presidents was Sir Winston Churchill, later Prime Minister of England. In 1921, the Second International Congress of Eugenics was held in New York City. The sponsoring committee included Herbert Hoover, later President of the U.S., and the Carnegie Institute of Washington (Rockefeller). Madison Grant, a director of the American Eugenics Society, was the treasurer. The event was held at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, where Averell Harriman served on the Board of Directors.

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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick. Someone needs to write 'Fascism For Dummies.' With PICTURES.
Edited on Tue Oct-19-04 02:52 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
How to get important information QUICKLY to know-nothings who have been innoculated against the truth with propaganda?

Time is of the essence; we don't have generations to turn things around with lengthy essays as evidence. The word evidence is useful for firing up our small base of justice seekers but must be augmented with pictures to reach the masses. Seeing is still believing despite the digital revolution where anything can be manufactured. That's just how our brains work. We still identify friend-or-foe by sight as if we were still chimps on the savannah looking out for leopards.

While shunning the deception of fascism, we must use the language of primal emotion that is universal to humans just as propaganda does.

I suggest that photos of those suffering from 'our' bombs and eugenic policies can speak the thousands of words that we use to try to describe the fascism the planet is dying from. Our brains are wired to feel distress when we see another human in distress. This is a result of our evolution as social animals who rely on those around us for survival.

If we can show TV Nation the horror of its governments policies in photographs, we can change their minds and supersede the image of the falling twin towers that has been marketed as the beginning of history.

I don't know of any other way to get through the tightly-woven matrix of lies that has sheeple accepting atrocities as virtues while global warming and the New Nuclear Crusades become irreversible.

My understanding of humans is mostly from seeing photos of Nazi concentration camps when I was SIX YEARS OLD followed by Vietnam war photos.

Noam Chomsky wrote that much of his perspective came from seeing cops beating woman with clubs at a labor strike in the 1930s when he was a child. This is in his book 'Understanding Power' and you can surely see why this sight was formative for him.

I just watched 'Team America: World Police.'

It is an admittedly funny cartoon portrayal of polarized TV Nation's simplified belief that "dicks(conservatives) and pussies(liberals) try to pursuade the world how to deal with assholes(terrorists)."

Tellingly, the movie's creators are young and newly rich. They revile rich actors for 'whining' about injustice since they have nice homes and cool cars. In short, they are Republican 'I Got Mine-ers.'

Yet these immature men are able to support the PNAC's Pax Americana with puppets that align with the propaganda that TV Nation lives on. Photo power again. Leni Reifenstahl Lives.

We can't count on Michael Moore's films to save us. They will be suppressed eventually. Hell, the Carlyle Group just bought one of the biggest movie theater businesses to prevent F911 from happening again!

We must give people the BIG PICTURE, literally, to reach them.
I see no other way to effectively fight ever stronger fascism.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #12


Iraqi Mothers Demand To Visit Their Imprisoned Children
13 December 2003


sie ahnten nichts von mir
von meiner wilden gier
doch als du kamst zu mir
da wurde ich ein tier
kein gedanke an danach
als ich dir die knochen brach

tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot


fuer mein naechstes leben
schoepfe ich neue kraft
ich bin dem toeten ergeben
in der einzelhaft

tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot
tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot

ein dahinsichen
von gottes hand
ich kann dich riechen
und das denken verschwand

tot tot tot tot tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot tot tot tot tot

ich mache dich tot ich mache dich tot
ich mache dich tot ich mache dich tot

sag mir was du willst
dass du meine sehnsucht stillst
ich mache dich tot fuer immerdar
von blut alles rot auf gottes altar

tot tot tot ich mache dich tot
tot tot tot von blut alles rot

ich mache dich tot fuer immerdar
ich mache dich tot glaub mir es ist wahr
ich mache dich tot fuer immerdar
ich mache dich tot auf gottes altar
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. "Only the educated are free." -- Epictetus
Like this, JohnOneillsMemory? -- Back in the 1980s, Reagan and Bush took Iraq off the list of Terrorist Nations. The reason? They wanted to support Iraq in its war against Iran, and thus have a buffer between the Ayatollahs and the Saudi oil fields. They also wanted to make a buck.

Our nation's founders understood the importance of a free press and guaranteed it -- the only business named in the U.S. Constitution -- in the First Amendment. And that is why these NAZI turds of the BFEE have done all they can to stifle knowledge:

1. ) underfunded public education

2.) bought and consolidated the mass media

3.) tossed the "Fairness Doctrine

4.) Given away "The People's airwaves" to the best-connected bidder

5.) Killed journaliststs who got in their way or too close to the Truth.

Etc. etc. etc.

Here's what we can do:

Tell the Truth. The BFEE are scared of that more than anything. The reason? It's the ultimate weapon. And they fear it like nothing else.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. Here's a nice pic: Your Congress at Work with NAZI Moon


Neo-Nazi tied to Moon group honored by Congressmen

For those of you new to the site, I've been following the strange case of the "Ambassadors for Peace" awards at the Dirksen Senate Offfice Building, Mar. 23 -- when a number of Congressmen apparently came by while Washington Times owner Sun Myung Moon crowned himself the Messiah, decked out in Sun King robes and the works.

Moon's "Ambassadors for Peace" have included, in 2001, a neo-Nazi named William Baker. There have always been rumors of alliances between Moon's anti-Communist groups and ones with strong tendencies towards Hitlerphilia. Baker, who's been written up in Moon's "Unification News", is currently the target of a protest by Jews in Boca Raton. Apparently he's a favorite of Muslim campus groups lacking good judgement.

But in 1984, he was chairman of the Populist Party, a neo-Nazi organization that was established by Willis Carto, a political racist who denied the Jewish Holocaust ever took place. Baker claims that he never supported the views of Carto. Yet at his 1984 convention for the Populist Party, Baker endorsed the restoration of segregation laws.

Moon talks a lot about "reconciliation." Baker's dream of reconciliation between Christians and Muslims is that they'd bond over their animosities towards Jews -- he's written a book, "Theft of a Nation," calling for Israel to be "dismantled and eventually eliminated."

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. Vaccine A is a story of betrayal

The worst friendly-fire incident in military history was not caused by a bomber pilot's navigational error or a poorly targeted artillery bombardment. It came from something no soldier had any reason to think would harm him: a vaccine administered by the military's own medics. When troops went to the Middle East to fight the Gulf War in 1991 and the Iraq War in 2003, they were immunized with the only FDA-approved anthrax vaccine in existence at least they were supposed to be. A number of them, perhaps thousands, received an experimental vaccine instead. Without their knowledge or consent, they were used as human guinea pigs in a massive medical experiment. An experiment that went disastrously wrong.

In Vaccine A, veteran journalist Gary Matsumoto combines masterly narrative with a deep understanding of the history and science to explain just what went wrong, and why. He shows how the Pentagon suddenly, in 1978, became aware that its moribund biodefense program needed to be kicked into high gear; how the military tried to develop an anthrax vaccine of unsurpassed safety and purity; how military scientists gradually learned that their new vaccine, though pure, was also ineffective; and how, to boost its effectiveness, they added an "adjuvant," an oil called squalene, to stimulate the immune system. What they didn't know, but should have known, is that squalene causes autoimmune diseases: chronic and even life-threatening diseases like lupus erythematosus, crippling arthritis, and multiple sclerosis. This is the stuff that military doctors secretly injected into Army, Navy, and Air Force personnel.

Matsumoto introduces you to the victims of this experiment: an Army sergeant whose skin became so diseased that doctors, in a desperate attempt to cure him, removed every square inch of skin from his body; another whose cerebellum literally shrank until he could no longer walk straight or write his name; a Green Beret colonel, a fitness fanatic and orienteering expert, who began to suffer walking blackouts that left him unable to find his way home; and many others. The Green Beret, who had a textbook case of lupus, was misdiagnosed for years and even accused of bleeding himself to distort his laboratory tests. Others were told they had psychiatric disorders or accused of malingering. Matsumoto introduces you to the doctors, Pamela and Kevin Asa, who uncovered the truth about these illnesses, and tells how they had to fight through Pentagon and National Institutes of Health stonewalling to do it. Finally, Matsumoto warns you of what is about to happen: the military, the vaccine's manufacturer, and the Department of Health and Human Services all refuse to admit that any experiment took place or that they are responsible for its devastating effects. Instead, they injected the same anthrax vaccine into Iraq War soldiers, and they are about to release vaccines with the same formulation for use in civilians. If these vaccines ever become widely used, the result will be a man-made epidemic of unprecedented size.

Vaccine A is a story of betrayal betrayal of some of America's finest citizens, the men and women who serve in the armed forces; betrayal of most fundamental rules of medical ethics; and betrayal of the basic duty of military and civilian leaders to protect the people they govern.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Yeah. Well don't go crying to a trial lawyer. The gov's immune.
But they shouldn't be.

Just when I think that they can't get any lower, I remember who "They" are.

Nazi, GOP, big business, Bush Knots

Click on URLs below to access any of sites

An update from
Paul Grignon

100 Links to Bush connections
The following are links to information about the Bush family, the Bush cabinet appointees and the corporations, think tanks and foundations that are behind the GW Bush administration. My including these links to materials other than the articles I wrote is not to be considered an endorsement of any statement they contain.

These links connect to sites run by the left, the religious right, conservative think tanks, political independents and the mainstream media. Some are pro-Bush and are included for cross reference value. All links were good as of this writing so if you get a message to the contrary keep trying. They are busy sites. When you cut and paste the web addresses or type them in there must be no added spaces or characters or else you will not be able to access the sites. Within each of these sites you can do a word search on Bush or any other word or name that interests you. These materials, which are only a tiny fraction of whats out there, will help you to see through the blitzkrieg of false information we are all being subject to about GW Bush and his cabinet.

Please forward these links to your friends, the media, elected officials and anyone else with an interest in knowing the real story behind the 43rd President of the United States.


... articles on the Bush connection to Nazis, eugenics and drug companies. Also articles on West Nile Virus, Giuliani, the Manhattan Institute - more than 50 articles filled with references.

An exceptional article on the relationship between American conservatives, GW Bush, so-called compassionate conservatism, eugenics and the Nazis: Nazis In America by Myrna Estep Ph. D

Bush financial misconduct

Bush family background search for Bush search for Bush

CIA, Nazis & the Republican Party

Philadelphia Enquirer 9/10/98 David Lee Preston, Fired Bush backer one of several with possible Nazilinks, September 10, 1988.

Project Paperclip: the CIA Nazi recruitment program. Many of the think tanks and organizations behind Bush got their ideas directly from these former Nazi officials.

Head of Florida holocaust Museum links Bush family to Nazis The Bush family fortune came from the Third Reich. John Loftus, former US Justice Dept. Nazi War Crimes investigator and President of the Florida Holocaust Museum quoted in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune 11/11/2000

4/14/1990 New York Times quotes George Bush as stating, Lets forgive the Nazi war criminals. US releases Nazi documents (AP)

Josef Goebbels on propaganda. Understand how the Big Lie techniques used by the Bush campaign work

Eugenics sites (the Bush family are among the worlds top advocates for eugenics)

Gulf War Syndrome and how the George Bush administration supplied Iraq with chemical and biological warfare materials, allowed US servicemen and women to be exposed to them and then covered up the entire scandal by Air Force Captain Joyce Riley

An interesting chronology of world events related to the Bush family and the new administrations goals.

Cheney links

A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime. . . Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there.-William E. Dodd, U.S. Ambassador to Germany, 1937. See: Shadow of the Swastika


A trillion thanks to Mr. Lederman!
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Please provide links...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. LOL! My "favorite" request: "Link?"

The turd on the left has been involved with almost all the bad things
that have happened to my country since 22 November, 1963.
Interesting that he doesn't remember where he was that day.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. Typical of you Mr. Octafish, confuse us with links!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. That's one helluva web site, seemslikeadream! Ni-i-ice.
Rush Limbaugh

I was listening to my radio
When Rush Limbaugh came on
I dont think I have ever heard
Such a famous moron
He is like poison to your soul
If you listen too long
Spreading the gospel of the right wing white boy kingdom

It all sounds so nice
More money for the working class
Keep prayer in school
And go to Saturday mass
Well excuse me sir
Why you talking so fast
Seems to me you just want more money for your fat ass

Where does this money go
That you seem to love so much
Oh yeah? Hospitals and schools
Homeless shelters and such
So your telling me you want more
And the poor dont need that much
Well excuse my language sir but you sound like one greedy fuck

You use religion as your shield
As you claim to be pro life
While you send off the brainwashed youth
To kill die and fight
Love your enemies
As quoted by your Christ
Well I guess that means nothing when it comes to a lopsided fight

Im sorry Mr. Limbaugh
I dont mean just to pick on you
You just have got a big mouth
And you must know that you do
There are bigger fish to fry
In your white boy crew
Your gang symbol is the dollar sign and mine is fuck you

-- Cookie Makin Satan Haters

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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. Sodomy Laws Around the World
Yeah, doesn't seem there would be a connection. Well, maybe it does. Funny how google connects the unconnected.

II. Sterilization

A proposed sterilization law, passed by the legislature in 1919, was vetoed by Governor D.W. Davis.17 The bill would have required quarterly reports from the state institutions to the Department of Public Welfare of all "feeble-minded, insane, epileptic, moral degenerates and sexual perverts" for possible sterilization.18 The definition of "moral degenerates and sexual perverts" was limited to

those who are addicted to the practice of sodomy or the crime against nature, or to other gross, bestial and perverted sexual habits and practices prohibited by statute.19

In his veto message, Governor Davis lauded the bill as "meritorious" but believed that it, applying only to those people confined in institutions, was discriminatory because they were, because of their confinement, "the least menace to society." (Evidently if it covered everyone in the state, he would find it unobjectionable). Also, Davis felt that the procedure of sterilization for the purpose of eugenics still was experimental, and more scientific evidence should be awaited to see if it were truly worthwhile.20

Six years apparently was all it took for the evidence to accumulate because, in 1925, Idaho enacted a law21 to authorize the sterilization of certain people, including "habitual criminals, moral degenerates and sexual perverts" who were considered likely to become a menace to society.22 The surgery could be performed either with the consent of the individual23 or following a trial, if the person would not consent.24
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. The BFEE don't like nobody they can't own and operate.
Some things haven't changed much. Take hate, for instance. From "The Hamster"...

Be Proud, GOP

Eugenics supporter in Ten wins the GOP primary:

An openly racist candidate is the winner in a Tennessee congressional primary.

August 06, 2004

James Hart, a believer in the discredited, phony science of eugenics, has handily defeated write-in opponent Dennis Bertrand in the Republican primary for the Eighth Congressional District.

Most of the votes have been counted and Hart has a big lead.

The 60-year-old doesn't expect to defeat Democratic Congressman John Tanner, who's represented the district for 15 years. But he says he wants to get out his message -- that people from what he calls "less favored races" should be discouraged from reproducing or immigrating to the U-S.

His explanation of "less favored races" includes people on welfare and those from "sub-Saharan" African countries.

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TO Kid Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
29. Eugenics was not a partisan issue
In the early 20th century it was favoured by both the left and the right and was a popular notion among intellectuals. In Canada, famed socialist and CCF (now NDP) party founder JW Woodsworth was one of the country's most vocal proponents of Eugenics, advocating the forced sterilization of "cripples, lunatics and women of Irish ancestry." On the other side, the right-wing government of Alberta passed the Eugenics Act that mandated the sterilization of disabled people.

The moral of the story is be careful about which skeletons you choose to dig up- you're just inviting the other side to do the same to you. I'm sure there were plenty of Democrats who supported eugenics, especially given the party's history in the South.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Gee, I guess we'd better never dig up any skeletons, then, huh?
It is precisely this kind of irresponsible logic that has gotten us where we are today. If Democrats were involved in eugenics in the early part of this century, and I'm sure they were, then the Democrats of OUR TIME need to repudiate them for their narrow-mindedness and racism.

If we are going to grow and change as a society WE MUST SEE, ACKNOWLEDGE AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ERRORS IN JUDGEMENT. This is what the fascists NEVER do.


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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Not in America

Can you imagine if some of the liberals here could give O'Reilly the juice and throw him in prison?

Maybe this is what eating the fruit of knowledge was all about. Maybe there is no way to overcome it.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Well of course. When you put good people in an evil place
they are far more likely to do evil things. THIS IS THE UNDERLYING NATURE OF OUR SOCIETY TODAY. "Criminal Culture," I call it.

Criminality (the avoidance of the rule of law) has become the RULE rather than the exception. It is rampant, everywhere. This is why no one should be surprised that we are where we are. Fascists in business suits with American flag lapel pins professing to be Christians have taken over the government of the United States of America and are systematically destroying it from the inside out -- creating the conditions for their ultimate agenda: the nullification of the Constitution.

How did they get away with it? Criminality. The National Security State is itself A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE as it operates beyond Constitutional restraints.

We ARE in a prison. We look around us and we see a world going mad. (Some of us see this more clearly than others.) It has levels, of course. It is a 'gilded' prison, full of all sorts of opportunities, excitements and diversions. One can spend one's entire life in blissful ignorance of the fact that one IS a prisoner.

To know, one must have had some 'taste' of freedom. And freedom, real freedom, is not an external thing. I begin to become free when I begin to see the totality of my slavery. OF COURSE those ignorant of their own slavery will behave badly under the banner of righteousness -- and even ENJOY IT. For a moment they get to feel some bit of POWER, some little tease of CONTROL -- which, if truth be known, they have sacrificed on the alter of their own ignorance.

There is only one question for us and that is how to escape from this prison that exists not only outside our skin, but inside, in the very fabric of our own consciousness of self and world. Attention is the key.
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. The Shawshank Redemption
Part of the problem is that there are too many laws and that results in a loss of respect for the laws that really matter.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. a couple questions
1) How do we get this information into mass circulation? Face it, if a significant portion of DU'ers dismiss it out of hand you know how it's gonna fly with the general public. Hell, ms bp, a moderate dem, thinks I'm nuts when I start talking this stuff.

2)Why does there seem to be an association of any advocacy of population control with racism, eugenics and genocide, at least around here? On several occasions, when advocating population levels in line with carrying capacity and leaving sufficient room on this planet for the rest of life to thrive I have been accused racism and being a "malthusian". Most anyone except a neocon knows that ends do not justify means. To accept the concepts of deep ecology is not the same as being a nazi! For my money the only way any kind of civilization is going to survive the mess that we have made of this place will be the adoption of some sort of ecosocialism. Does that make me a fascist racist?
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. You are a racist malthusian!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. ??????
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Gee. Don't forget we're on the same side.
Of course the planet's resources are strained past sustainability. The thing is in how we approach the problems. Some, like the BFEE and the NAZIs believe it's their God-given right to kill people they believe to be "Untermenschen," as well as all who oppose them.

Me, and I suspect you, prefer humanity -- all people -- work together to solve these problems. It gives us something to do, plus it makes us stronger.

Regarding the dissemination of ideas: Remember what Dorothy Parker said when asked to use the word "horticulture" in a word game. Parker said, "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think."

Those who want to learn, will. Those who think they know everything, don't.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. The older I get, the more I question
EVERYTHING, except the primal instinct to :kick: Happy Birthday to Art Buchwald and me!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Art says
The best things in life aren't things.

Happy Birthday

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Naaaaa, Du!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. Happy Birthday, Karenina! I've got the perfect gift idea...

Happy Birthday to Art Buchwald, too!

You both are the BEST!

In keeping with the theme of Quality, here's some truly classic art I have ripped off as a gift...

by Gahan Wilson

PHIL: This first slide here shows Madge and Bill standing right there in front of the New York Space Authority building, ready to start our trip. You can tell it was a pretty nice day on account they're not wearing any protective clothing except for goggles and a mask. The old guy got hit by our taxithat was some wild driver we hadand the kid's playing a trick on him. Cute, hah?

MADGE: If he hadn't of done it someone else would of. CLICK.

PHIL: Now this here was some lucky shot. I was going to take a picture of Billy there, when this guy steps on the Hijacker Sentinel and pow, huh? What I mean is it really got him good. I asked why it done it and they said it was on account of he looked suspicious and if you study the expression on his face you can see how they got to wondering about him.

MADGE: It turned out he didn't have no gun or bomb or anything.

PHIL: Look, all they can do is the best they can and I'm glad they got those things up there protecting us, anyways. CLICK.

PHIL: Well then, after we got settled in our cabin and the ship took off and all, we went up to the observation lounge and I mean they had the place really fixed up swell. No less than sixteen TV sets all going at the same time, each on a different station, of course, and a bar and every kind of a slot machine and game like that you could wish for. Back there through that window you could see the universe out there if you wanted.

MADGE: I won a whole lot of credit at the Lucky Astronaut game but lost it all on the Zodiac Wheel. CLICK.

PHIL: Just a day out from Mars they announced everybody had to come and see the indoctrination lecture, and I hadn't been looking forward to that. It was something those stiffs at the United Nations had whipped up to teach you all about the Martians' customs and way of life and even their goddamn religion, for Christ's sake. But then I saw it was our social director, Earl, going to do it, and I relaxed right off.

MADGE: That Earl!

PHIL: You see, those UN creeps had given Earl a whole bunch of pictures and graphs and stuff he was supposed to teach us with, and I guess they'd bust a gut if they ever saw what he done with them. Here he is pretending to explain the sex life of a Martian; can you beat it? Only they don't have no sex life on account of they haven't had any babies in thousands of years. He sure had us all laughing. CLICK.

PHIL: Right at the space port they got these weird Martians trying to sell you pots and statues and stuff. Nothing but a lot of junk, if you ask me. Anyhow I was taking a picture of one of them when Billy did this here. It's a good thing those Martians can't talk or this one here would have really given the kid a couple of bad words I bet you.

MADGE: It's not that they can't talk, it's that they've taken an oath of silence. Don't you remember the joke Earl made on that, honey?

PHIL: Well, anyhow, the way that stuff broke up, he had a nerve trying to sell it. CLICK.

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #59
Gotta share it with everyone! :kick:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. Let's bring this back to the top
for others to read as well.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Hey! Thanks, Forkboy! Here's what Mae Brussell had to say 'bout NAZIs
The Nazi Connection to the JFK Assassination


1963: A Few Connections in Dallas

Gen. Walter Dornberger, Michael and Ruth Paine

When George de Mohrenschildt was busy introducing Lee and Marina to the Dallas-Ft. Worth White Russian displaced Czarists, he managed to keep the social level equal with his American contacts. One casual dinner in the company of Michael and Ruth Paine, and that was enough meeting to set the Oswald's course. George and Jeane didn't have to meet with them again.

Ruth Paine would provide housing for Marina while Lee went to New Orleans. A few weeks later, she drove Marina to join Lee. After summer vacation at Wood's Hole, Mass., Ruth returned and brought Marina to her home in Irving, Texas, while Lee was on the bus to Mexico with Albert Osborne/John Bowen, and four other Solidarists from the Russian network. After Kennedy was murdered, the Dallas police rushed to the Paine's home. From that garage and elsewhere, via the Paines, came most of the incriminating evidence against Oswald. The alleged murder weapon never could be proven by the Warren Commission as ever having come from their garage.

The cropped photo that Life printed with Oswald holding a rifle came from a box removed from the garage, taken to the police department, then returned the next day, with nobody present to indicate where it came from.

Accessory after the fact, the letter was delivered to Marina in December undated and unsigned, to cover up General Walker's anxiety to blame a "Communist,' Lee, for shooting at him in April and came from Ruth to Marina. It wasn't in the home before then. The Warren Commission required planted evidence sometimes in order to divert from Lee Oswald's links to the Defense Department, assisted by Ruth and Michael Paine.

Michael Paine's occupation at Bell Aircraft is the Defense Department. This job requires security clearances, so what would the unlikely Oswalds be doing in his home? Oswald, the "defector?" Paine's boss at Bell Aircraft as Director of Research and Development, was none other than the notorious war criminal General Walter Dornberger. Dornberger was supposed to be hanged at Nuremburg for his war crimes, slave labor and mass murders. The British warned the U.S. not to let him live because even after the war he was conniving for another one. As stated, "Dornberger is a menace of the first order who is untrustworthy. His attitude will turn ally against ally and he would become a source of irritation and future unrest." (Project Paperclip, Clarence Lansey.)


I really hate these turds.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. The mind boggles sometimes
some sick and scary stuff :scared:

Thanks for all the info...I think :)
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks, Octafish...and here's eugenics as linked to Poppy Bush....


The First International Congress of Eugenics was held in London in 1912 and was attended by a certain Winston Churchill. By 1917, fifteen US states had eugenics laws to sterilise epileptics, the mentally ill and regular criminals. On the agenda of the Third International Congress in 1932 was the 'problem' of African-Americans which, according to the delegates, revealed a need to sterilise to 'cut off bad stock'. At this meeting were several Nazis, including Dr Ernst Rudin, who had been enabled to attend by the Hamburg-Amerika Shipping Line, owned by the Harriman and Bush families. On returning to Germany, Rudin, who was funded by the Rockefellers, supervised the policy of sterilising those who were retarded, deaf, blind or alcoholics.


George Bush is a major voice in the eugenics movement and is surrounded by like-minded people - Boyden Gray (his legal advisor) and William Draper III (head of fund-raising for his 1980 presidential campaign). Draper's grandfather had unsuccessfully urged eugenics policies on Eisenhower before convincing Johnson to adopt them. In 1969 Bush was involved in hearings into the 'dangers of too many black babies' and when he became ambassador to the UN in 1972 he arranged for the Association of Voluntary Surgical Contraception (formerly the Sterilisation League) to extend its policy of sterilising young children with 'low' IQ to non-white countries. This was further extended when Bush became president in 1988.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Yeah. They gave the Native Americans blankets with smallpox....
... in the generations just before.

Wow, Media_Lies_Daily! Seeing those words in print takes the breath out of anyone with a heart. Knowing what they mean serves only to strengthen my resolve to see these bed-wetting bastids all behind bars.

Still, isn't it odd that so many poor whites support these BFEE turds? Don't they realize that once their usefulness is up, the Bushes and the Satanic scum they work for will turn on them?

Sorry to be so brief. I''ve had a 19-hour day of rabbit today. Tomorrow I'll be in better shape to viddy the web and find what I wanted -- J Edgar Hoover's role in all this.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. This year the "smallpox blankets" go to the chronically ill, the elderly,

the pregnant women, the small children, all the people who are at high risk for influenza. There is no vaccine for most of those who need it (though they've found it for all members of Congress, for prisoners, casino workers, soldiers.)

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #45
58. Worse than Social Darwinism. BFEE follows 'Survival of the Connected'
Environmental scientists report the world cannot long sustain a population estimated at 6.4 billion. The 295 million US citizens consume more than anybody, with the Europeans and Japanese close behind, what will happen when the people of the underdeveloped world want theirs?

Who will be able to say "No!" to them -- people entitled to enjoy the fruits of the world as much as anyone? Not us on DU. We want to figure out ways of making the pie bigger for everybody. And use a recipe that doesn't poison the well.

Gee, that doesn't sound like anything George W Bush or any GOP-conservative I've heard say. All they want is lower taxes so they can keep theirs away from the "redistributionists." Such sacrifice.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
44. Excellent piece. Really lays it out nicely.

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Squeegee Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
46. I didn't realize that died hair...
...and fake boobs were considered eugenics.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. We can't all be perfect.
From the article:

The superior species the eugenics movement sought was populated not merely by tall, strong, talented people. Eugenicists craved blond, blue-eyed Nordic types. This group alone, they believed, was fit to inherit the Earth. In the process, the movement intended to subtract emancipated Negroes, immigrant Asian laborers, Indians, Hispanics, East Europeans, Jews, dark- haired hill folk, poor people, the infirm and anyone classified outside the gentrified genetic lines drawn up by American raceologists.


Guess that rules me out.

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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
47. Are these California dates a coincidence?
-Frontiers Newsmagazine, October 15, 1999, California's Gay Golden Age (excerpt)

1801 Though carried out under Spanish law, the last known U.S. death sentence for sodomy occurs in California. Eighteen-year-old Jose Antonio Rosas is shot by a firing squad.

1850 Californias first criminal code is enacted, and includes a ban on sodomy. The law begins with the preface, The People of the State of California, represented in Senate and Assembly, do enact as follows:. However, the law was enacted in April when California still was a territory. It did not become a state until September, and it is unclear if this made the original law invalid.

1897 The California Supreme Court upholds the sodomy convictions of two prisoners for relations with each other in their cell, the first published U.S. case dealing with sex in a prison.

1909 California is the first state to adopt a sterilization law covering sexual perverts.

1915 A California appellate court is the first in the nation to ponder, in a written opinion, the nature of human sexuality in a sodomy case.

1915 California expands its sodomy law by enacting a law against oral sex. This unique law actually outlawed the acts of fellatio and cunnilingus, the first uses of these words in a U.S. statute. Four years later, the California Supreme Court struck down the law, saying that fellatio and cunnilingus are not words of ordinary use in the English language, something California law requires. The legislature responds by outlawing oral copulation.

1919 A California appellate court upholds a sodomy conviction that followed a mothers drilling holes in her 14-year-old sons bedroom wall to see what he was doing with a partner.

1925 A California appellate court upholds a sodomy conviction that is the first case in the nation to mention condoms found in the home as evidence admitted against the defendant.

1927 A California appellate court upholds a sodomy conviction that followed a mothers hiring a private detective to hide under the bed of her sons partner and burst out during their sex.

1939 California enacts the nations first law requiring revocation of a teachers license if the teacher is convicted of sodomy or oral copulation.

1947 California is the first state in the nation to enact a sex offender registration law. It requires registration and reports of changes of address of persons convicted of sex offenses, including consensual sodomy and oral copulation.

1951 A California appellate court rules that Gay men are vagrant per se, permitting them to be jailed without committing any criminal act.

1962 The California Supreme Court is the first in the nation to find a right to privacy in enclosed restroom stalls, reversing convictions for consensual sodomy occurring therein. Many other state courts follow this decision.

1969 California enacts a unique law, signed by Governor Ronald Reagan, permitting the treatment of sexual psychopaths by means of prayer alone.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Wow! A kinder, gentler ku klux klan. Kalifornia, ber alles!
Thanks for the interesting chronology, George_S. Seems the Golden State means different things for "different" people.

Here's more from the original author, for those too rushed to read big things:

War Against the Weak

How American corporate philanthropies launched a national campaign of ethnic cleansing in the United States, helped found and fund the Nazi eugenics of Hitler and Mengele and then created the modern movement of "human genetics."

In the first three decades of the 20th Century, American corporate philanthropy combined with prestigious academic fraud to create the pseudoscience eugenics that institutionalized race politics as national policy. The goal: create a superior, white, Nordic race and obliterate the viability of everyone else.

How? By identifying so-called "defective" family trees and subjecting them to legislated segregation and sterilization programs. The victims: poor people, brown-haired white people, African Americans, immigrants, Indians, Eastern European Jews, the infirm and really anyone classified outside the superior genetic lines drawn up by American raceologists. The main culprits were the Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Harriman railroad fortune, in league with America's most respected scientists hailing from such prestigious universities as Harvard, Yale and Princeton, operating out of a complex at Cold Spring Harbor on Long Island. The eugenic network worked in tandem with the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the State Department and numerous state governmental bodies and legislatures throughout the country, and even the U.S. Supreme Court. They were all bent on breeding a eugenically superior race, just as agronomists would breed better strains of corn. The plan was to wipe away the reproductive capability of the weak and inferior.

Ultimately, 60,000 Americans were coercively sterilized legally and extra-legally. Many never discovered the truth until decades later. Those who actively supported eugenics include America's most progressive figures: Woodrow Wilson, Margaret Sanger and Oliver Wendell Holmes.

American eugenic crusades proliferated into a worldwide campaign, and in the 1920s came to the attention of Adolf Hitler. Under the Nazis, American eugenic principles were applied without restraint, careening out of control into the Reich's infamous genocide. During the pre-War years, American eugenicists openly supported Germany's program. The Rockefeller Foundation financed the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute and the work of its central racial scientists. Once WWII began, Nazi eugenics turned from mass sterilization and euthanasia to genocidal murder. One of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute doctors in the program financed by the Rockefeller Foundation was Josef Mengele who continued his research in Auschwitz, making daily eugenic reports on twins. After the world recoiled from Nazi atrocities, the American eugenics movement its institutions and leading scientists renamed and regrouped under the banner of an enlightened science called human genetics.

SOURCE (Those interested in the BFEE may want to bookmark for future reference):
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Progressives?
Although it was carried out on a significant scale well into the 1930's and even beyond, eugenic sterilization arose as a policy issue in California and the rest of the nation during the Progressive Era, which began around the beginning of the twentieth century and lasted until 1920... Some Progressives referred to eugenics as "the science and the art of being well born." Human sterilization may be carried out for many reasons. It may be as punishment, perhaps in the form of castration for repeat sex offenders. It may be for social reasons, when individuals are kept from having children because they are completely unable to care for them, either physically, emotionally or financially. But when the state sterilizes an individual because he is seen to be genetically defective and therefore likely to pass his defects on to offspring, this is eugenic sterilization. And this was the type of sterilization that many California policymakers wanted to carry out.


The rejection of acquired characteristics by the scientific community, especially by 1900, had the effect of exaggerating the role of heredity and undercutting those who believed that the human race could be uplifted primarily through improving economic or social conditions. The importance of creating a healthy living and working environment, sometimes known as euthenics, was not ignored by many of those interested in the often vague idea of "race betterment." In fact, the improvement of heredity could often simply be one part of a much broader, progressive outlook. But for some policymakers and intellectuals, advances in science and biology seemed to promise simple, comprehensive answers through the manipulation and control of human breeding.


This extreme faith in heredity was to play a key role in the growth popularity of eugenics, and would also serve a conservative, even reactionary, world view. Since heredity was far more important than environment, it was better to discourage the unsuccessful from reproducing than to give them charity or greater economic opportunity.


a Eugenics Field Worker named Miss Ethel H. Thayer wrote:

"I spoke to Dr. Hatch about the investigation of the family histories of cases proposed for ster- ilization, and he intends to give me some such cases for study. A history that I am getting at present seems to be increasing the desire and efforts of Dr. Stocking (Medical Superintendent of Agnew State Hos- pital) secure the sterilization of two unfit individuals who are now at large and raising a family only to become county charges."

Thayer goes on in the letter to suggest that more field workers be hired so that the family studies could be carried out on a larger scale.

From this letter we can see two things. First, we can see the expanding role of what we now call social workers, a common phenomenon of the Progressive Era. Second, we can see the power wielded by the field workers in their compilation of family histories. Historians and others who have studied the eugenics field work that was carried out in the eastern U. S. have provided us with an almost nightmarish picture of what Miss Thayer might have done. The field workers were usually young female college students who were given some basic instruction in biology and genetic theory. They would go to economically depressed areas and proceed to assess the social value of dirt- poor families based on their impressions and available "documentation" (It should be recalled that impoverished surroundings were seen by eugenics advocates to be mainly caused by bad heredity). Individuals were labeled "degenerate" or "feebleminded" based on dirty clothing or an unkempt appearance. Children were labeled "imbecile" based on a glance from across the room. If some disorder appeared to have been present in a previous generation, it was labeled "hereditary." Individuals who had been dead for years were categorized as having been mentally deficient based on the field worker's "intuition." Single-parent or otherwise broken homes were a sure sign of hereditary degeneracy. It is unknown what action, if any, was ever taken by the State of California with regard to the people Miss Thayer was studying. They may have suffered a grave injustice.
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
60. What?????! More Eugenics Today
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 02:53 AM by George_S
Selling sterilisation to addicts
By Clare Murphy
BBC News Online

To its critics, Project Prevention or Crack - an American organisation which pays drug addicts and alcoholics to be sterilised - is a terrifying throwback to the neutering of "defectives" during the 20th Century.

But the woman who runs this not-for-profit programme believes she is offering a service to everyone: the drug addict, the taxpayer, the child who has not yet been born, and if she has her way - will never be born.

The project targets poor women - and you tell me what sort of choice it is when it's made by someone living in poverty and desperate for money
Wyndi Anderson
As the programme - which offers both sterilisation and long term birth control - reaches its fifth anniversary, Barbara Harris also believes she has cause to celebrate.


Ms Harris also has some influential, and wealthy, people on her side.

Dr Laura Schlessinger, one of the nation's most popular radio talk-show hosts, has made hefty donations and has frequently plugged the project.

Richard Scaife, heir to the Mellon fortune in Pittsburgh, is also reported to have donated, along with Jim Woodhill, a right-wing venture capitalist from Texas.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Gee. Dr. Laura and Richard Mellon Scaife. Who's not to hate?
These two have done more to spread the gospel that some people are born better than others than just about anyone. Just learning about Mr. Woodhill. What an, um, interesting person.

Thanks for the heads-up, George_S!

Here's a nice quote from this Ms. Harris:

"We don't allow dogs to breed. We spray them. And yet these women are literally having litters of children."

Very interesting article:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
63. BFEE wants to screen and drug entire nation for "mental health"
Bush To Impose Psychiatric Drug Regime

Plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

According to a recent article in the British Medical Journal, US president George Bush is to announce a major "mental health" initiative in this coming month of July. The proposal will extend screening and psychiatric medication to kids and grown-ups all over the US, following a pilot scheme of recommended medication practice developed in Texas and already exported to several other states.

The Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) will serve, according to the Presidents New Freedom Commission on Mental Health, as a model for the upcoming initiative. The TMAP medication guidelines were established in 1995 as an "expert consensus" based on the opinions of prescribers, rather than an analysis of scientific studies. The pharmaceutical companies who funded the scheme include Janssen Pharmaceutica, Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, Astrazeneca, Pfizer, Novartis, Janssen-Ortho-McNeil, GlaxoSmithKline, Abbott, Bristol Myers Squibb, Wyeth-Ayerst and Forrest Laboratories. The drugs recommended as "first line treatment", many of them with potentially deadly side effects, are patented expensive drugs produced by the sponsors of the guidelines: Risperdal, Zyprexa, Seroqual, Geodone, Depakote, Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa, Wellbutron, Zyban, Remeron, Serzone, Effexor, Buspar, Adderall and Prozac.

TMAP was extended to cover children, again by "expert consensus", and no doubt the Bush program for widespread testing in schools all over the US will find hundreds of thousands if not millions of new "customers" for the dangerous psychiatric drugs the scheme promotes. A recent article in the New York Times about "the use of juvenile detention facilities to warehouse children with mental disorders" might give us an idea of how many future patients are already waiting in the sidelines. But more importantly it shows that the problem that fits the TMAP solution is now being promoted by the media - go figure.

A similar "patient recruitment" move for psychiatry is the re-definition of environmental illness - a debilitating condition with varying symptoms due to environmental causes such as chemical poisons and electromagnetic pollution - as a purely psychological phenomenon. "It's all in your head, stupid!" seems to be the rationale.


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. The crazy moron wants to drug everybody. That's very NAZI.
What if I don't want to be screened? That'd probably make the pretzeldent mad. I don't want to make the unelected moron mad. Heh. In all seriousness, this is a MOST insidious thing.

Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

Jeanne Lenzer
New York

A sweeping mental health initiative will be unveiled by President George W Bush in July. The plan promises to integrate mentally ill patients fully into the community by providing "services in the community, rather than institutions," according to a March 2004 progress report entitled New Freedom Initiative ( While some praise the plan's goals, others say it protects the profits of drug companies at the expense of the public.

Bush established the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health in April 2002 to conduct a "comprehensive study of the United States mental health service delivery system." The commission issued its recommendations in July 2003. Bush instructed more than 25 federal agencies to develop an implementation plan based on those recommendations.

The president's commission found that "despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed" and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for "consumers of all ages," including preschool children. According to the commission, "Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders." Schools, wrote the commission, are in a "key position" to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.

The commission also recommended "Linkage with treatment and supports" including "state-of-the-art treatments" using "specific medications for specific conditions." The commission commended the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) as a "model" medication treatment plan that "illustrates an evidence-based practice that results in better consumer outcomes."

Dr Darrel Regier, director of research at the American Psychiatric Association (APA), lauded the president's initiative and the Texas project model saying, "What's nice about TMAP is that this is a logical plan based on efficacy data from clinical trials."


It will be "interesting" to see how quickly the support will build from members of the medical community.
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