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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:09 PM
Original message
The Pope thinks Bush is the anti-Christ
Hey, I ain't religious, but I thought this was interesting...

"Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs, and his constant references to "evil doers," in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations - the anti-Christ. People close to the Pope claim that amid these concerns, the Pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament. Before he became Pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel." The Pope, who grew up facing the evils of Hitler and Stalin, knows evil when he sees it. Although we can all endlessly argue over the Pope's effectiveness in curtailing abuses within his Church, his accomplishments external to Catholicism are impressive.

According to journalists close to the Vatican, the Pope and his closest advisers are also concerned that the ultimate acts of evil - the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon - were known in advance by senior Bush administration officials. By permitting the attacks to take their course, there is a perception within the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy that a coup d'etat was implemented, one that gave Bush and his leadership near-dictatorial powers to carry out their agenda.

The Pope worked tirelessly to convince leaders of nations on the UN Security Council to oppose Bush's war resolution on Iraq. Vatican sources claim they had not seen the Pope more animated and determined since he fell ill to Parkinson's Disease. In the end, the Pope did convince the leaders of Mexico, Chile, Cameroon, and Guinea to oppose the U.S. resolution. If one were to believe in the Book of Revelations, as the Pope fervently does, he can seek solace in scoring a symbolic victory against the Bush administration. Whether Bush represents a dangerous right-wing ideologue who couples his political fanaticism with a neo-Christian blood cult (as I believe) or he is either the anti-Christ or heralds one, the Pope should know he has fought the good battle and has gained the respect and admiration of many non-Catholics around the world."




http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. "people claim"
There are enough actual negatives on Bush that I dont think bothering with rumour and conjecture makes much sense.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. counterpunch
I'd like to see his sources on this quote:
"According to journalists close to the Vatican, the Pope and his closest advisers are also concerned that the ultimate acts of evil - the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon - were known in advance by senior Bush administration officials. By permitting the attacks to take their course, there is a perception within the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy that a coup d'etat was implemented, one that gave Bush and his leadership near-dictatorial powers to carry out their agenda."

I know the Pope tires easily:
"The Pope worked tirelessly to convince leaders of nations on the UN Security Council to oppose Bush's war resolution on Iraq. "

There is something about these Counterpunch essays. I can always find unbelievable and hyperbolic prose within their author's writing.
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting article.....


....thanks for posting it.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. If Bush is the anti-Christ it kind of makes voting for Kerry a moot point.
Devil, I rebuke you! Kerry Edwards 2004!
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Bush isn't smart enough to be the anti-christ ...
...

He's the anti-christ's little helper.

If I had to finger a SINGLE person to be the anti-christ alive in the world today, it would be PAT ROBERTSON.

Yep, good ole Pat cloakes himself in the robes of a pastor. But he's really a scam artist, a purveyor of informercial scams, a genocidal gold/diamond miner, and an all around evil dooer wearing the smile of Jesus.

Beyond this, Pat Robertson actually PREDICTED that the anti-christ would rise out of dealings with the bank of Scotland (no doubt a Knights Templar connection). Well guess who got involved in the bank of Scotland after that ... PAT ROBERTSON.

Don't forget who the REAL muscle in the Christian Coalition is. It's NOT Ralph Reed!!! It was Pat Robertson pulling the strings and pushing the agenda on his "christian" broadcast network. Pat is a NOT a pastor, he's media mogul/political operator. He's on evil motha fucka!!!!

And like ALL right wing wackos, Pat maintains chummey connections with the Faux-Christ, Rev Moonie. All the right wing preachers do. They don't talk about Moon, in return the Moonie Times talks real nice about them and their political puppets in Washington.

Unlike Bush, Pat actually assembled his empire of graft and corruption through skill and gile. He's a smooth political operator who doesn't have to read off a cue card to deliver an effective (thought swarmy) message. Pat is SMART enough to be Satan's spawn.

Greg Palast dedicates a whole chapter to SMILING Pat in "The Best Democracy Money Could Buy."

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ugarte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. If * isn't the anti-Christ, it's not for lack of trying
But what would that make Rove? Satan himself?
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homerthompson Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. Do you know what a Dominionist is?
Dominionism is the hard core belief of christian zealots that the latter parts of the bible, pertaining to the near collapse of the world before christ's return to earth to rule it for a thousand years, are 100% true, and worse,
THEY BELIEVE THEY CAN INSTIGATE THIS PROCESS.

The bible predicts a series of events that lead up to christ's return:
"a massive ideological conflict in the middle east" = duh
"the approach to lawlessness" = crime, corruption, evil, and immorality soar to new heights.
"the torment of the earth" = nature will demonstrate it's full power - massive earthquakes, storms, floods, etc.
"the rise of the anti-christ" = a sharp tongued, likeable figure that pretends to lead the world towards glory, honor and progress, but instead seeks to corrupt it. Sound familiar?
"a great war" = ppl think this will be multi-continental, grander in scale than wwII

and there's other stuff i'm missing, since i'm no theologian. But the dominionist view is that they think they can make christ come to earth by instigating this chain of events, thereby artifically fulfilling the prophecy of the bible. And * is enabling them to do this.

I learned a lot of this stuff from yurica report and theocracywatch
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captainjack Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. i thought the fundies are trying to make
a golden or red goat or something through genetic engineering in order to initiate the end of days. apparently, the bible indicates that the presence of such a creature signals the beginning of the end of days and these people think genetic engineering is a good way to bring about judgment day. god, if he/she/it exists, has got to be laughing at these morans.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Metaphorically speaking, you could say that
on 9-11-2001 the blood of three thousand Americans was shed while Bush read a book about a goat with school children instead of taking action to meet the crisis head on. That could be your red goat.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. blasphemy!!!!

But who cares if you're a right winger. What kind of mind thinks they can force the left hand of god and detach the right????

There is no doubt that this thinking is the highest form of blasphemy. They claim to speak for god.

I'm an ex-Catholic, and I have PLENTY of beefs with the "universal" church. But I do know that they approach divination from biblical sources as pretty sketchy and pretty WRONG!!!!! It is akin to witchcraft (magic).

The belief that mortals can influence the actions of god through ritual rather than simply his judgement is a prime source of the attitudes against witchcarft. What the fundies are ATTEMPTING to wield is a Supreme form of witchcraft. They're trying to wind forward the revelation clock simply so they can see Jesus with their own eyes. This act is supremely anti-ethical because they do not ACCEPT god's will (god's timetable). They presume to force god's hand. Or they delude themselves into believing they are god's instruments to work the timetable that THEY (not necessarily god) desire).

Oh woe be to him who presumes to KNOW the mind of god!!!!!!!

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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Right on the money
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 05:16 PM by htuttle
What they are doing is the darkest form of magick -- attempting to imminentize the eschaton. To force the hand of God.

Worst thing is -- it don't even work. They are just going to make a mess of things here on Earth.

I say we hand them track suits and razor blades and tell them the comet is coming to pick them up.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. When arguing against the parochial ...
... best to frame your argument in parochial terms.

I don't believe in revalation. It think it's 100% counter to the tradition of a "testament" of the words of Jesus.

The screwey thing is that protestants rebelled against just this type of "dressing up" of the church. Luther strived to forge Christianity through the words of Jesus rather than all the "extra bits" the church through in to get pagans to join (holy ghost(earth/water/air dieties), the "god man" (Dyioniseun sun cult (Contantine's religion)), and saints (a pantheon of "minor figures" to DIRECTLY take the place of local Pagan gods) ).

Revelation is just the kind of thing Luther would toss to the side because it simply didn't come from the mouth of Jesus. Why so-called protestant Baptists embrace it so strongly is really a wonder to me. Of course I can fathom no reasonable explanation for why the church EVER included the ravings of a madman who lived 200 years after Jesus???? Could it be as simple as the madman was the favorite of a particular Roman Emperor????

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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I say we expose the Washington Times and UPI international ..
... EVERY chance that presents itself.

It SERIOUSLY blows the mind of your "average" Republican when they find out their "paper of record" is owned by a man who claims to be Jesus Christ, conducts mass weddings and communes with the dead spirits of Stalin and Hitler.

Have no doubt that Washington Times veterans are writing the scripts at Fox News. They have a practiced hands at schewing coverage to fit their master's wishes.

The GOP, Washington Times, and Faux news forms the unholy alliance. And most Republican voters would NOT approve if they were allowed to know!!!!!

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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. if a dominionist believes in end times then im one. but
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 04:38 PM by faithnotgreed
if its about making these acts come about in order to bring end times, then thats just scary as all get out. blasphemy all out of proportion!
thats where i part company in a very big way.

i believe like someone else posted above. ive thought about bush possibly being the a-c but "decided" that bush is just not smart enough to qualify. although because hes just not right in the head, he may be the a-c that america gets.... i say this maybe half jokingly. ive thought of that too but thats another topic

bush is smarmy and cocky and so not likeable but still has many sheeple followers. im not sure what that makes him but it better not be president!

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. Can there be any less significant opinion
than the Pope's? Let him stick to exorcisms.

--IMM
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. If the pope said Bush was evil ...
... you'd probably see half the Catholics switch their vote AWAY from Bush.

Yes, the holy father IS very influential amongst adherents. I have at least one uncle who is a die hard Bush supporter. But he is so adherent that he would bale on Bush in a SECOND if the Holy Father denounced Bush.

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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. very good - give it a kick
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. If this is true, then why let some Catholic bishops
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 04:36 PM by cally
deny communion to anyone who supports a candidate who is pro-choice. This Catholic administration has allowed it's bishops to become partisan. They've always been political but I've never seen more partisan activities tolerated by the hierarchy. If the Pope believes * is the anti-Christ, then reign in your American bishops so we can defeat this evil.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. As long as they ...
... deny communion to anyone who's pro-death penalty, it's fine. If they don't, they're hypocrites!!!!


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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Exactly! If the pope is concerned about Bush, he needs to make that known.
If he considers Bush "evil," then why are Catholics being strong-armed into voting for him? x(
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. First time in a long while that I'm on board with JPII! You tell him!!
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Owlet Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. Naw..he's not the Devil - Illustrative proof..
He's an imp.

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MsConduct Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. First time I've agreed with the Pope about anything! n/t
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. Also, the anti-christ is supposed to bear the mark 666.
This is how we are supposed to know him. Anyone have any ideas how to make that connection? Numerology? Kabbala?
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. I don't think the events of September 11, 2001 is the
ultimate act of evil. Far worse things have taken place in human history. I may be stepping out on a limb here but I seriously believe the dropping of the bomb on Nagasaki and Hiroshima wsa worse than what happened on 9/11/01. Call me a radical.

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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yes, unfortunately, history is full of examples of the
"ultimate" act of evil...

We seem to be endlessly capable of the ultimate acts of evil.

That said, I do think Bush is very, very dangerous -- even evil.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. Bush is really creepy. I just watched him on O'Reilly and EVIL
Just reeks from him. I don't know why those stupid fundies can't see that. It's so strong that it's impossible to miss. He DOES have major blood lust. He's a sick, sick bastard. If he's elected he will invade countries just to kill. Look at how he enjoyed putting people to death in Texas. I wish the Pope would say it LOUDER. Maybe these Christian Zombies would listen. I'm saving this article. I'm not even religious but I think the Pope could be on to something. Only greedy selfish stupid Republicans would vote for the Beast. It makes perfect sense.
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. So if the Pope doesn't want Bush to be in power,
why has he made so many patent anti-Kerry remarks?
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kclown Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. And why has he granted Bush two audiences?
I am 55, and until March 2003 a lifelong Roman Catholic.  I
quit going to church the Sunday after the invasion, giving up
a music gig along with it, because of my frustration that the
local sermons had not once for the previous year included any
reference or influence of the Pope's opposition to the Iraq
war.  If those priests had gotten off their collective ass,
this could have been stopped.

I am not kidding.  If every Catholic sermon warned against a
pre-emptive invasion of Iraq when that was a danger, it would
not have happened.  

My frustration, I know today, includes my failure to complain
about this issue to the people in the pulpits.  I am
despondent about my failure to influence these events. It
doesn't help that I have an 18-year-old and a 17-year-old son.

I have attended each big demonstration on the east coast for
the past two years, almost exactly.  I am getting tired of
Greyhound to Washington.  

Not too tired to do it again Friday, for the D.C. to Dover
coalition march.  

We Catholics need to find our voices.  Pretty simple: Thou
shalt not kill.  
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
29. .
Deus, in adjutorium meum intende.
Domine, ad adjuvandum me festina.
Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.


Kerry/Edwards
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
31. This story is complete rubbish. The pope and advisers are right wingers.
What are the counterpunch people smoking? This is pipe dreaming nonsense. Judge people by their actions, not their words. He has consistently made every effort to support Bush's political ambitions, and those of his right wing minions in all matters except the war.

JPII's opposition to the war was quickly swept under the rug once it got under way, and JPII served as a convenient shill for Bush's public image, giving him the imprimatur in the form of a publicized, televised public meeting.

JPII is a senile old coot who should have stepped down long ago.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
32. This is old news.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
33. Some signs do support such a theory--
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
34. Here's another link.
Sorry I didn't arrive sooner.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_9_27...

Bottom line, folks, bush is not a good person to keep around in positions of authority.
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