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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:36 PM
Original message
George W Bush is a NAZI Stooge.
The unelected moron and Adolf Hitler have more in common than wanting to enslave the Untermenschen, loot the world's treasuries, pillage the planet and kill their opponents. Both share an admiration for totalitarianism.

Here's a nice overview for those new to the subject:

The NAZIfication of America (Part 3)

I'm sure many DUers have thoughts on this subject. Please add on, especially bobthedrummer!

Ein Trifekta!

For those interested in learning how all this came to be, consider the CIA brought in the worst of the NAZIs after World War 2 to fight the new enemy, the Soviet Union and the commies.

CIA's Worst-Kept Secret

By Martin A. Lee
May 16, 2001

Honest and idealist ... enjoys good food and wine ... unprejudiced mind..."

That's how a 1952 Central Intelligence Agency assessment described Nazi ideologue Emil Augsburg, an officer at the infamous Wannsee Institute, the SS think tank involved in planning the Final Solution. Augsburg's SS unit performed "special duties," a euphemism for exterminating Jews and other "undesirables" during the Second World War.

Although he was wanted in Poland for war crimes, Augsburg managed to ingratiate himself with the U.S. CIA, which employed him in the late 1940s as an expert on Soviet affairs.

Recently released CIA records indicate that Augsburg was among a rogue's gallery of Nazi war criminals recruited by U.S. intelligence shortly after Germany surrendered to the Allies.

Pried loose by Congress, which passed the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act three years ago, a long-hidden trove of once-classified CIA documents confirms one of the worst-kept secrets of the Cold War the CIA's use of an extensive Nazi spy network to wage a clandestine campaign against the Soviet Union


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gumby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Now it's called "conservatism"
A "conservative" by any other name is still a nazi. pathooie!!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. My sentiments, exactly. Here's what an early adaptor of fascism said...
"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini (from Encyclopedia Italiana, Giovanni Gentile, editor)

Gee. Sounds like some unelected moron we know...
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Did you ever stop to think about why our government and its
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 09:41 AM by Eloriel
various elected and appointed leaders (incl. Congresscritters) have never been interested or concerned about resisting "fascism" instead of or even in addition to communism?

I mean, think about it. We as a nation have at times been absolutely hysterical about Communism -- here at home and overseas -- but never, ever, ever the least bit concerned about fascism.

Interesting, isn't it?

I think it's also worth pointing out that the Nazis were similarly hysterical about communism and in fact Hitler offered up his political ideology as an alternative, a "third way," between whatever and communism. The Reichstag Fire was blamed on Communists. And we (the U.S.) imported all those Nazis after the wwar via the CIA specifically because they had so much knowledge about the Soviet Union and were so engaged in fighting Communism.

But fascism has never been on our radar screen after Hitler was defeated.

I now tend to see those who are strongly (and sometimes hysterically) anti-Communists as somewhere between latent (nascent) to full-blown fascists. And why not? Fascism is capitalism run amok (to the great joy of the capitalists!!), while communism is the antithesis of cappitalism (at least conceptually -- I'm not defending totalitariansim) -- so of COURSE communism has to be defeated wherever it's found.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. When I consider the fact that the USSR bore the brunt of death ...
... and destruction of the Nazi regime, it causes me to wonder about the 'realpolitik' underlying the prosecution of WW2.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Most interesting.
Well, said, Eloriel.

Here's an image of just one headstooge:

The feller did all he could to thwart any kind of progress:

Social. Economic. Political.


It threatened the "Order."
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. More links here on 100 years of fascism in the US. Might still makes right
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 01:17 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
How This is the best comprehensive history of 100 years of fascism in the US I've found. It will blow your mind to read how the US has been run by murderous fascists who financed it around the world and still do.
(The Nazi Hydra in America)

Also worth reading:
(6 Million Killed in CIA Secret Wars)
Former CIA Station Chief in Angola tells all in 1987 and warns of Reagan admininstration's plans for eliminating the Bill of Rights, use of pre-emptive war, secret detention and execution. We are now living this nightmare under the same people back in power.
(Files Show Nazi Criminal's US Intel Role)
(CIA's Worst Kept Secret, Nazi General Reinhard Gehlen)
(Operation Paperclip and Camp Evans, New Jersey)
(Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act)
(US Guerilla Warfare 1940-1990)
(14 Symptoms of Fascism)
(Fascism Receptivity Psychological Questionaire)
(FEMA-America's Secret Government)
(CIA controls US media in Operation Mockingbird)

How the hell did that get foisted on a supposedly egalitarian country that was created from scratch by people like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson PRECISELY TO PREVENT ABUSE OF POWER?

Oh yeah. They REALLY created a government by rich white slave owners who get a cut of the king's loot for helping to stomp the masses down. The Senate is utterly anti-democratic and should be abolished. It's existence prevents representative government just as the US gov't and CIA have been preventing democracy around the world for 60 years.

But the Founding Fathers had some really good writers who whipped up some long-lasting rhetoric that has substituted for the reality.

Atleast the cancer within the American Illusion of Justice is now fully revealed for what it is, text book fascism.


"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."
-Frank Zappa 1977

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. Great post, JohnOneillsMemory! Much obliged for the links and excerpts...
... from the many good sources of info and analysis.

A Compassionate Conservative

Here's a bit from the SpiritOne site:

Gold Fillings, Auschwitz and George Bush


On February 8, 1951, Thyssen died in Argentina. Following his death, the Alien Property Custodian released the assets of the Union Banking Corporation to Brown Brothers Harriman. The remaining shareholders quietly cashed in their remaining shares. Prescott Bush received $1.5 million for his share in Union Bankings blood money.

This brief article has only scratched the surface of the sordid association of Prescott Bush with the Nazis as he had yet a third company seized from him during the war. In his first run for senator, Prescott was defeated after his position within the eugenics movement was disclosed. George the poppy has followed in his fathers footsteps and retained many of the same family connections with the Nazis. For instance, as chairman of the Republican Party he presided over the formation of the Ethnic Heritage groups of the Republican Party. This was a reward for the Nazi quislings from Eastern Europe for helping in the election of Nixon as president. When two or more ethnic groups were vying for control over a particular group invariably the group with close ties to the Nazis won out. George also shows the same intense interest in population control. Perhaps it was for his beliefs in eugenics, George appointed Draper as his expert on population. Or perhaps it was more of a reward for past services rendered by Draper to the Bush family. Draper was the former general placed in control of the military governments economic division after the war. Draper was a rabid racist and member of the Eugenics Society. He was also a former employee of Dillion and Reed, the large Wall Street brokerage house that floated the largest German bond offerings including one for United Steel Works. In his position as economic czar of Germany, he stopped the dismantling of an I.G. Farben plant and was in the ideal slot to protect his former clients that armed Hitler, including Bush.

The same close associations are apparent with Bush junior. One interesting pattern in international relations is ready observed that the Israeli government moves to the hard right whenever a Bush is in the Oval Office. Considering, Israel has one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and a perhaps the most extensive data base on the holocaust, could the Israeli hard-liners be blackmailing the Bushes? Do they have a smoking gun that would at once end the political aspirations of the entire Bush clan as well as place the family wealth at risk for damages suffered during the Holocaust? One researcher already says the family wealth is at risk in such suits; the ties are that strong.

Any reasonable person understands that the tragedy of 9-11 was allowed to happen. Only the White House can order the interceptors to stand down, once an aircraft deviates from its flight plan or contact is lost. Within 30 minutes of the time the golfers plane that decompressed failed to follow directions from the control tower a fighter was alongside and shadowed the plane until it ran out of fuel and crashed in the midwest. The story that no fighters were available is simply a lot of bullshit. There are probably no less than a dozen or more airports within range of New York and Washington DC with fighter squadrons on standby. Yet, Bush wants us to believe that the entire East Coast was left unprotected with no fighters to provide air cover including the restricted airspace over the White House. The 9-11 tragedy was the Reichstag fire and the so-call Patriot Act, the enabling act for another fascist government.

With American blood about to stain the sands of the Mideast why hasnt the media focused on the merchant of death, who armed Saddam? They would need to look no further than George Bush, the poppy and Vice President Dick Cheney. Poppy Bush is rubbing his hands with glee counting potential profits for his Carlyle Group. The group holds stocks in defense industries that armed Saddam during the Reagan years and provided arms for the US military. This is the way the Bush family makes it money. Just ask Prescott. It didnt take Dick long to learn that secret. After the first Bush administration in which Cheney was the head of defense, he became head of Halliburton.While at Halliburton, Dick sold hundred of millions of dollars worth of dual use equipment to Iraq.

Stand behind the young soldiers and wave a flag for them, as they are mere canon fodder for this fascist clique. Dont wave a flag for the most corrupt administration in the history of the country thats hell-bent on installing a fascist regime beholding to no one other than corporate interests.

Your freedom depends on it.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. If the fascist's party slowly climbing back, It's not here yet......

Peggy Seeger 1937

Song of Choice

Early every year, seeds are growing
Unseen, unheard, they lie beneath the ground
Would you know before the leaves are showing
That with weeds all your garden will abound?

If you close your eyes, stop your ears
Hold your mouth, how can you know?
The seeds you cannot see may not be there
The seeds you cannot hear may never grow

In January you've still got the choice
You can cut the weeds before they start to bud
If you leave them to grow higher, they'll silence your voice
And in December you may pay with your blood

Close your eyes, stop your ears
Close your mouth and take it slow
Let others take the lead and you bring up the rear
And later you can say you didn't know

Everyday another vulture takes flight
There's another danger born every morning
In the darkness of your blindness the beast will learn to bite
How can you fight if you can't recognize a warning?

Close your eyes, stop your ears
Close your mouth and then you know
Let others take the lead and you bring up the rear
And later you can say you didn't know

Today you may earn a living wage
Tomorrow you may be on the dole
Though there's millions going hungry, you needn't disengage
For it's them, not you, that's fallen in the hole

It's alright for you if you run with the pack
It's alright if you agree with all they do
If the fascist's party slowly climbing back
It's not here yet, so what's it got to do with you?

The weeds are all around us and they're growing
It will soon be too late for the knife
If you leave them on the wind that around the world is blowing
You may pay for your silence with your life

Close your eyes, stop your ears
Close your mouth, they're never there
And if it happens here, they'll never come for you
Because they'll know you really didn't care
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm sorry SLAD...
But these *assholes have such a foothold, to say it's not here *yet* is is merely gilding the lily. ;-)

PNAC has its eyes on controlling the world's shrinking resources. The only way to control demand is to REDUCE THE POPULATION. They have the means in their grasp and any foolish sod who thinks they will not use them is... well... a FOOLISH SOD.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. Peggy was just trying to warn us Karenina
I think the song was written about 30 years ago. ;) :hi:

Peggy Seeger

Choose your issue and choose your space
Choose your level and choose your pace
The ship's in trouble, needs a brand new crew,
Old Mother Earth needs me and you
She'll welcome any little thing we do

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Things have gotten worse since Gross wrote "Friendly Fascism" in 1980.
Bertram Gross wrote about how things aren't what they used to be. The new, "Friendly Fascism," would make all go along to get along. Gee. Things sure have changed for the worse. How many noticed?

The Specter of Friendly Fascism

excerpted from the book
Friendly Fascism
The New Face of Power in America

by Bertram Gross
South End Press, 1980, paper

The Unfolding Logic


... as I survey the entire panorama of contending forces, I can readily detect something more important: the outline of a powerful logic of events. This logic points toward tighter integration of every First World Establishment. In the United States it points toward more concentrated, unscrupulous, repressive, and militaristic control by a Big Business-Big Government partnership that-to preserve the privileges of the ultra-rich, the corporate overseers, and the brass in the military and civilian order-squelches the rights and liberties of other people both at home and abroad. That is friendly fascism.


At any particular moment First World leaders may respond to crisis like people in a crowded night club when smoke and flames suddenly billow forth. They do not set up a committee to plan their response. Neither do they act in a random or haphazard fashion. Rather, the logic of the situation prevails. Everyone runs to where they think the exits are. In the ensuing melee some may be trampled to death. Those who know where the exits really are, who are most favorably situated, and have the most strength will save themselves.

Thus it was in Italy, Japan, and Germany when the classic fascists came to power. The crisis of depression, inflation, and class conflict provided an ideal opportunity for the cartels, warmongers, right-wing extremists, and rowdy street fighters to rush toward power. The fascist response was not worked out by some central cabal of secret conspirators. Nor was it a random or accidental development. The dominant logic of the situation prevailed.

Thus too it was after World War II. Neither First World unity nor the Golden International was the product of any central planners in the banking, industrial, political, or military community. Indeed, there was then-as there still is-considerable conflict among competing groups at the pinnacle of the major capitalist establishments. But there was a broad unfolding logic about the way these conflicts were adjusted and the "Free World" empire came into being. This logic involved hundreds of separate plans and planning committees-some highly visible, some less so, some secret. It encompassed the values and pressures of reactionaries, conservatives, and liberals. In some cases, it was a logic of response to anticapitalist movements and offensives that forced them into certain measures-like the expanded welfare state-which helped themselves despite themselves.

Although the friendly fascists are subversive elements, they rarely see themselves as such. Some are merely out to make money under conditions of stagflation. Some are merely concerned with keeping or expanding their power and privileges. Many use the rhetoric of freedom, liberty, democracy, human values, or even human rights. In pursuing their mutual interests through a new coalition of concentrated oligarchic power, people may be hurt-whether through pollution, shortages, unemployment, inflation, or war. But that is not part of their central purpose. It is the product of invisible hands that are not theirs.


BTW: It's a heck of a read.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. While we are patiently waiting for bobthedrummer
Edited on Mon Sep-27-04 05:14 PM by seemslikeadream
here are a couple of his links

The Ghost of Adolph Hitler: Nazi Influence in America by John Stanton

Here it is 2003, and the ghost of the notorious Nazi Adolph Hitler haunts America.

Hes in the White House in Washington, DC and the governors mansion in Sacramento, California.

He roams the halls of the George C. Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. His Nazi minions Arthur Rudolph and Werner Von Braun provided the know-how to put American astronauts on the moon and nuclear warheads into space. Rudolph, according to reporter Linda Hunt, was guilty of war crimes in WWII. In 1969, Americans cheered as our astronauts took their first steps onto the moon. The giant rocket that blasted them into space was Rudolph's crowning achievement as NASA's project director for Saturn V. Fifteen years later, Rudolph relinquished his U.S. citizenship and left the country rather than face Justice Department charges that he had committed war crimes while working in an underground factory that had used Dora Concentration Camp prisoners as slave labor.

Americans should find it a bit unsettling that their presence on the moon and the space-based military dominance they enjoy was built, in good measure, on the backs of 6,000 human beings who would ultimately be executed by the Nazi SS in the Spring of 1945.

Testimony of Elizabeth Holtzman
on H.R. 4007
"The Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act"
before the Subcommittee on Government Management
Information and Technology
of the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight
July 14, 1998

Let me begin by thanking the chair and members of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to appear before you to testify on H.R. 4007, the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act. I am honored to be here.

First of all, the distinguished Congresswoman from New York, Carolyn Maloney, the sponsor of H.R. 4007, deserves tremendous credit for introducing this bill. Opening US files on Nazi war criminals is a crucial objective. Rep. Maloney has been fighting for several years to make these files available to victims of the Holocaust, scholars, journalists and the public. Fortunately for us, she has never given up, despite all the obstacles put in her path. Everyone in this country who cares about finding out the whole story of Nazi war criminals--and our government's involvement with them--owes her an enormous debt of gratitude.

Statement of Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney
Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act
July 14, 1998
House Subcommittee on Government Management, Information and Technology
Mr. Chairman,

Thank you for holding this hearing on this bill-- and I'd like to also thank Senator DeWine of Ohio for his leadership in the Senate. It's been a matter I've been working on for several years.

The more I learn about Nazi war criminals, and the possibility that there are people living in the United States, who are responsible for such heinous deeds, the more dedicated I become to exposure.

My work- as I mentioned- spans several years. But that is very small compared to the work and the pain that holocaust survivors have suffered in their search for the truth.

H.R. 4007 - the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act will help to reveal some of those truths. The bill sets up a process for the declassification of documents held by Federal agencies.

World War II ended a half century ago. Our policies in dealing with many countries have changed a great deal since then. Our policies WITHIN the U.S. must also change.

There were little warning signs but few were paying attention when George Bush the poppy ran for president in 1988 and 1992. First during the campaign it surfaced that one of his campaign staffers was a distributor of pro-Nazi propaganda. Before the ink was dry on the individuals resignation, further revelations showed there were in fact a number of ex-Nazis on Bushs campaign staff including Laszlo Pastor and Yaroslav Stetsko. Pastor was a member of the Hungarian Arrow Cross during WWII and served as an envoy to Germany. The Arrow Cross was known to be excessively brutal even to their Nazi allies. Stetsko served as the prime minister of the short lived Ukrainian puppet government. During the short reign of this puppet regime over 100,000 Jews were slaughtered in Lvov. George Bushs insensitivity towards victims of the holocaust is underlined by his employment of Fred Malek, a well-known collaborator with former Nazis in both his presidential campaigns.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Like Hitler, Bush invaded a country with which we were at PEACE.
Poland in 1939 didn't do anything to hurt Germany.

Iraq in 2003 didn't do anything to hurt the United States of America.

So, why the invasions?

IMO: To unite the populace and consolidate power behind a dictator.

Naturally the common people dont want war. But after all, it is the
leaders of a country who determine the policy, and its always a
simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every

--- Hermann Goering, Hitlers Reich Marshall,
at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. Wall Street bankrolled HITLER *and* established CIA.
So why are we so SURPRISED that OUR Federal Government is actually run by the National Security State?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. While it's not news to you and all good DUers...
... the subject seems to have been scrubbed from the history books. It also seems to have been forgotten by the captive press. And that's why it's worthy of discussion here. Thank you for understanding, beam_me_up!

You know, some days I can almost become a fan of Noam Chomsky...

The Nazi Parallel:
The National Security State and the Churches

excerpted from the book
The Washington Connection
and Third World Fascism

by Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman
published by South End Press, 1979


An important ingredient of Nazi ideology, anti-Semitism, is absent from the NSD, although it has found a home with the military of certain countries (specifically, Argentina, where there has been a long anti-Semitic tradition). But the NSD also lacks any element of egalitarianism or notion of human community, both present in grotesquely perverted form in Nazi ideology, so that the Latin American version has been well adapted to justifying and institutionalizing extreme inequality and domination by a small elite. The NSD is not a doctrine with ugly potential consequences for specific minorities; it is one that fits the need for disregard and spoliation of the majority. The special place of army and police merely assures that the military elite will share in the spoliation along with the traditional elite group. It is, therefore, an appropriate doctrine for what we have been calling "subfascism."

Since the generals sponsoring the National Security Doctrine have been nurtured by and dependent on the U.S. military intelligence establishment, and look to the United States as the heartland of anti-Communism and Freedom, it is little wonder that the economic doctrinal counterpart to the NSD is quite congenial to the interests of multinational business. The military juntas have adopted a "free enterprise-blind growth" model on the alleged geopolitical rationale that growth means power, disregarding the fact that dependent growth means foreign power. Since profits equal investment equal growth equal power, it works out that state support for large interests-domestic and foreign- and neglect of the masses, is sound policy. We saw earlier that in the economics of client fascism, that is, National Security Economics, the welfare of the masses is no longer a system objective-the masses become a cost of goods sold, something to be minimized-so that although the military juntas sometimes speak of long run benefits trickling down to the lower orders, this is really an after-thought and is not to be taken too seriously.

Furthermore, since the world is one of good and evil, with "no room for comfortable neutralism" (Pinochet, echoing a familiar refrain of his U.S. mentor), and since free enterprise-growth profits-USA are good, anybody challenging these concepts or their consequences is ipso facto a Communist-subversive-enemy. This is a logical deduction from NSD principles, and it is also clearly just what General Maxwell Taylor had in mind in telling the students of the police academy of the lessons of Vietnam and the need for anticipatory counter-subversion. It also means that any resistance to business power and privilege in the interests of equity, or on the basis of an alternative view of desirable social ends or means, is a National Security and police problem. This applies to such organizations as peasant leagues, unions, student organizations or community or political groupings that might afford protection to the weak or threaten to become a political counterforce to elite domination. From the standpoint of the multinationals and latifundists, this is superb doctrine; reform is equated with subversion, the work force is kept in disarray by state power, and nothing stands in the way of organizing economic life in MNC-latifundist interests that can not be taken care of by a few well-placed bribes. As Nelson Rockefeller has said, in dealing with Latin American countries, for whom democracy "is a very subtle and difficult problem," we must be prepared to sacrifice some of our philosophical principles in the interest of helping meet the basic needs of the people of the hemisphere."

In Nazi Germany too, as in other totalitarian societies, a primary aim of the controlling leadership was the destruction of any organizational threat that might challenge the attainment of "state" ends; and unions, students and professional organizations, and community groups and political parties were infiltrated, harassed, destroyed, or brought under state control. The most powerful bases of organized resistance in Nazi Germany were the churches, which provided the "most active, most effective, and most consistent" opposition to Nazi terror. The churches were so deeply rooted in their communities that it was difficult to attack them openly, although the Nazis tried from the beginning to undermine and destroy church authority. The churches were not only the first large organizations left intact that began to resist Hitlerism as organizations, "they also remained unique in this respect throughout the period from 1933 to 1945, although their resistance remained limited to certain issues and methods. Throughout World War II one important segment of the Protestant Church (the Confessing Church) refused to pray for military victory, and by the war's end many hundreds of clergymen had died in concentration camps.

The analogy here with Latin American experience is striking, although it has been diligently avoided in the mass media of the United States. The National Security States, like Hitler, have used informers and force to destroy or bring under state control all protective organizations of the working class, peasants, rural workers and sub-proletariat: a church group's description of Paraguay, where "the government's objective is to suppress any person or organization that strives to help those living in miserable poverty, that is to say 80/ho of the population, is widely applicable in the NSD world. This repression is not undertaken out of sadistic impulses. Rather, as the church throughout the empire now recognizes, "this whole universe of atomized workers, powerless and obliged to humiliate themselves," are kept in that condition for sound economic reasons, given the ends sought and the model of economic development employed by the military juntas.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I have a lot of respect for Chomsky, but the person who first
began to connect the Wall Street - CIA - Nazi dots for me was Mike Ruppert. I know there are many here who are sceptical of Mr. Ruppert and while I'm not going to swallow everything he says hook line and sinker -- especially his predictions -- nevertheless, he has pointed the way to an new understanding -- a new political paradigm -- of what is going on in our world today.

These times are not "politics as usual" inside the US. They ARE politics under duress -- and that duress may be Peak Oil.

From a "Guns and Butter" , aired October 12, 2001

Ruppert: Historically speaking, we go back to 1947, we look at Clark Clifford, who wrote the National Security Act, in 1947. He was a Wall Street banker, and a lawyer from Wall Street. He was the chairman of First American Bancshares that brought BCCI onto US shores in the late 1980s. He was given the design for the CIA by John Foster and Allen Dulles, two brothers: John Foster becoming Secretary of State, Allen becoming director of Central Intelligence, who was fired by John Kennedy. They were partners in what is until this day the most powerful law firm on Wall Street: Sullivan Cromwell. Bill Casey, the legendary CIA director from the Reagan/Iran Contra years, had been chairman of the Securities and Exchange commission under Ronald Reagan. He, in fact, was a Wall Street lawyer and a stockbroker. I've already mentioned Dave Doherty, the Vice President of NYSE who is the retired CIA general counsel. George Herbert Walker Bush is now a paid consultant to the Carlyle Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the nation, very influential on Wall Street. "Buzzy" Krongard is there. John Deutsch, the former CIA director, who retired a couple of years ago, a few years ago, is now on the board of Citibanc or Citigroup. And his number three, Nora Slatkin, the Executive Director at CIA is also at Citigroup. And Maurice "Hank" Greenburg, who is the chairman of AIG insurance, which is the third largest investment pool of capital in the world, was up to be the CIA director in 1995 and Bill Clinton declined to nominate him. So there is an inextricable and unavoidable relationship between CIA and Wall Street.

FAULKNER: Michael Ruppert, this is Bonnie Faulkner. Does the CIA itself invest in the stock market?

RUPPERT: That's unknown. What is known, and what was disclosed by hearings chaired by Senator Frank Church in 1976, is that the CIA was known and proven in the Congressional Record to operate proprietary companies, some of which do trade their stock on Wall Street. One of these, Southern Air Transport, excuse me, was at it during the Iran Contra years. There are others: Evergreen Air, which may or may not be a proprietary, but has strong CIA connections; there are tons of these companies out there. It's not known if CIA manipulates markets, although I really believe that they do.

FAULKNER: Is the CIA's budget public knowledge?

RUPPERT: No. By law. Under the National Security Act of 1947 the CIA's budget is hidden in the budgets of all the other departments of government. We've never been able to pin down, because it's a secret, exactly how much money CIA gets. But the best estimates availableand these are from very good sourcesare that it's around 30 billion dollars a year.

FAULKNER: So I'm assuming then that no one knows where they keep their budget. I mean, do they keep it in the bank drawing interest? I guess we don't know.

RUPPERT: Well, no, the way it would work under the NSANational Security Actis that if the budget is $30 billion , $10 billion may be in the Department of Defense, five in the Department of Justice, three in US Treasury. That's how they hide the funds.

RAMARES: Michael, Kellia Ramares again. You've laid out a scenario which would suggest that the CIA is so involved in Wall Street, they knew these trades were happening; they knew why. Why would the CIA let such a horrendous thing happen if they knew about it? All the loss of life, all the economic damage that we led off our show with that's going to happen to everyday people, state and local governments, small investors, businesses. Why did they let it happen if they knew?

RUPPERT: Well, first of all, let's look at history. I'm a great addict of the History Channel and all this year on "The Secrets of World War II," one of their series, they have run maybe three, four, five times, a documentary showing clearly that Franklin Roosevelt had absolute knowledge that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor on December the seventh. Navy had broken the codes. That information was made Top Secret. And Roosevelt allowed the attacks to happen with the express purpose of bringing the US into World War II. So there is historical precedent for this. What I have been writing in "From the Wilderness" for more than two years, and we've been publishing four years now, was of huge economic inconsistencies, bubbles that were about to burst, about a pending collapse of the US economy that was going to happen anyway.

Just two days before the attacks, I sent a bulletin to my subscribers saying there's a monstrous derivatives bubble, to the tune of about 20 trillion dollars that's about to burst. The price of gold has been manipulated, and the stock market's ready to crash. And in fact, we had seen the Dow drop by almost 900 points in the three weeks prior to the attack. So, in point of fact, the economic crash was going to happen anyway. As a result of the attacks, now there are two benefits for the government: Number One, there is a convenient enemy upon whom to place the blame for the economic crash. And second, the legislation passed by Congress has unleashed a torrent of short term, and what are going to be extremely expensive, solutions which are keeping the US economic bubble inflated. This incentive: now it's about 100 billion dollars so far I believe, between 40 for the military and another 60 in tax cuts, is robbing Peter to pay Paul. And I am absolutely convinced that Social Security is toast and this was their way to get their foot in the door on that.


RAMARES: Is Congress knocking on your door to look more into this? Are we going to see congressional hearings into possible knowledge of the CIA of the attacks? I mean we're talking about they let mass murder happen.

RUPPERT: Yes . . . I have spoken confidentially to two members of the House of Representatives. And I have to tell you that my take on their view, and these are members who I consider to be allies and very progressive and awake: they're basically frightened. The climate is one of near hysteria. There is an overwhelming attitude in the general public of wave the flag and kill the bad guys. And it's not politically wise, I guess, in their viewpoint, to risk their careers by raising questions. But some of them have to and some of them must.

Everyday, there are more and more holes in all of the stories surrounding September 11, and this avoids people from looking at a broader agenda in Central Asia, which has to do with the drug trade and the oil. Bear in mind that Senator Carl Levin (D-Mich.) has documented that 300 billion dollars a year in drug money moves through the US banking system. And that was in a minority report to the Senate Banking Committee released this February, I believe it was. But that money is now an integral component to sustaining the bubble. And that's why we're seeing CIA operatives moving willy-nilly into Uzbekistan, to give us immediately another Laos, just like we had in the Vietnam era with Air America planes flying with tons of heroin to markets in the US and Western Europe. And that's what's coming out of this. Also, there's a huge grab for oil and a major pipeline to run from Uzbekistan down to the Pakistani coast, which will weaken Russia's grip on the region. And I believe, long term, the economic motive is to Balkanize Russia. But members of Congress now faced with this are kind of overwhelmed. There have been a few voices speaking up here and there to oppose civil rights legislation that was punitive, to address issues of the war-making powers. But Congress needs to find its legs and its lungs real quickly.

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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. thats an insult
to Nazi stooges
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. You make a good point, Snivi.
But, as Satan's bedfellows, they both work for the same ends. Thus, it's OK to equate their status in H-E-double hockey sticks.
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Dangerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. Spot Quiz: There's something hole-y about that boy.
Iss-huley, certainly...

Those interested in the subject of certain circles of Hell seem to overlap in America 2004 may be interested in taking a little quiz. (No fair if your name is Crisco Ashkan):


See if you can identify the source of the quote. The following quotes are from either:

A. Adolph Hitler before and during WWII.

B. Religious right, including the American Christian Reconstructionist movement (Coalition on Revival, Chalcedeon Foundation, Jay Grimstead, R.J Rushdooney, Rev. Donald Wildmon, Jon Stoos, Gary North, Rev. Pete Peters, Rev. James Kennedy, Howard Fieldstead Ahmanson, Jr. a.k.a. Home Savings & Loan scion).

C. KKK/ White Supremacy movement.


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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
17. Kick
Good posts on this thread.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. Where Does the Christian Right Get Its Politics From?
Here's why the conservatives HATE public education. It makes people THINK:

Where Does the Christian Right Get Its Politics From?

by Matthew Lyons

Speech to the Annual Brunch of the Broome County Coalition for Free Choice, Binghamton, New York, 12 February 1995

I'm going to offer you a few brief thoughts about the Christian Right. The primary focus of my work over the past two or three years has been on the history of ultraconservative, fascist, and right-wing populist movements in the U.S. When I think about what's dangerous about the Christian Right today, a lot of what I think about is how this movement has built on the work of past right-wing movements, but has moved beyond them in important ways.

There is a long tradition of right-wing Christian political activism in the United States. In the 1920s, the Ku Klux-Klan, which at that time included millions of members, was very closely tied to various Protestant churches. In the 1930s, Father Coughlin's "Social Justice" movement, which was led by a Catholic priest and had special appeal for many Catholics, was the largest pro-fascist movement in this country at the time. In the 1950s and 60s, there were a number of Christian anti-Communist organizations.

And yet the Christian Right of today has built a social base which is broader and more cohesive than any of these earlier movements. It has done a lot to set aside sectarian theological disputes between different factions. It has brought millions of Christians into political activism for the first time, including major groups such as Pentecostals and charismatics, who traditionally have avoided political activism. And the Christian Right has been working hard to build political unity between evangelical Protestants and right-wing Catholics -- especially using issues such as abortion and homophobia to recruit Catholic support. These are major political changes.

The Christian Right has also pulled itself out of the trap that many of its predecessors faced, of simply reacting against secularism and liberalism in society. Since the 1970s and 80s, the movement has presented itself as working for an active, positive program. A major unifying principle of the Christian Right today is "Dominion Theology" -- the belief that Christians should exercise "dominion" over all spheres of society. The most frightening form of Dominion Theology is a doctrine called Christian Reconstructionism, which has been very influential within the movement. Reconstructionists advocate a totalitarian, explicitly patriarchal theocracy based on their interpretation of Biblical law. In their vision, for example, only men from Biblically correct churches could vote or hold office. And the death penalty could be applicable as punishment for: homosexuality, adultery, heresy, striking a parent, incorrigible juvenile delinquency, and in the case of women, having an abortion or "unchastity before marriage."


PS: Thanks, Cleita! You are always most kind. Gee. That's what a truly religious or spiritually evolved person is all about.

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. Bu$h really is a "Nazi", and all the little republikan nazi wannabes are
going to vote for him because of the fact that he IS a nazi.

These Amerikan republikan nazi wannabes are the same type people as the "Good Germans" that supported Hitler. They still supported Hitler even after he started oppressing and murdedring innocent Jewish folks.

Bu$h is a "leader" with a philosophy based on hate, lies and greed and military aggression. Just like Hitler.

When Bu$h starts rounding up everyone in the US that is of Arab descent, or starts rounding up and killing innocent and peaceful dissenters against the Bu$h dictatorship, these republikan amerinazis will be in the streets cheering Bu$h and his new Gestapo, headed by Porter Goss, on.

I have met too many of these Amerinazis lately not to believe this is true.

God help America if Bu$h steals this election, or somehow otherwise remains in power.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. You got it, Zorra.
"God help America if Bu$h steals this election, or somehow otherwise remains in power."

The average American is kept busy trying to make the VISA payment, the rent or mortgage and put the kid through school to have time for learning about the BFEE. Add drugs like beer and television and whatever, and there's really not much grey matter left for politics. So, I must resort to the obvious...

BTW: We shall fight them in the strip malls.
We shall fight them in the country clubs.
We shall fight them in our gated communities.
And we shall never, ever, ever give up.
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HEIL PRESIDENT GOD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Great picture
Good thing the Bush doesn't have as good a graphic design department as Hitler did.

I first fought Nazi skinheads in '86 or so... Never felt fascism went away. Did anyone notice how the US Army got Nazi helmets under Bush I (or was it Raygun)?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Thanks. Besides, being a NAZI...
Bush is nothing more than an unelected moron
who thinks he is in charge of the world.
The reality, of course, is much different...

PS: Don't remember if the new helmets started in Reagan's term. Yeh, they look like the NAZI ones from WW 2, but a similar design was used in WW 1 by the Germans. The idea for the American adaptation was increased side and back protection. Guess what happened in Iraq? The Pentagon decided to make them smaller -- and thus, less protective in the kinds of combat the service men and women are facing. Here's a link to the story:,13319,FL_helmet_082604,00.html

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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. Please don't ruin the word "stooge"
I love the stooges!

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Sorry, Ezlivin! Yes, THOSE are Stooges.
This is an unelected moron, a pyschopathic personality, the Coward from Crawford, her majesty, the Lip.

Only a royal would consider his or her subjects as "property" and, thus, "expendable."

BTW: A belated and hearty welcome to DU, Ezlivin! Look forward to reading your posts!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. Sheesh Octafish, I finally read this thread and see I've been called to
add on.

George W. Bush aka The War President IS A NAZI STOOGE!

Want links? Here we go.
John Loftus on the Bush/Nazi connection

American businesses that profited with the Third Reich are far more numerous than acknowledged-if acknowledged at all

Those real Nazis from PAPERCLIP found a political home in the RW of the Republican Party:mad:like Russ Bellant documented for US

Hitler had plans for war, so did the neo-cons and The War President illegally gave approval to PNAC agenda, AS A STOOGE.

Douglas Feith's OSP and other Pentagon offices kept them all happy with "selective intelligence" AND OUTRAGEOUS LIES


For awhile they were tethered to the Chalabi Crime Family-which may have been agents of Iran, not Iraqi nationalists nor even supporters of democracy, the Chalabi's were jerking THE STOOGE'S STRINGS AND GRABBING THE BLOOD MONEY WE FINANCED FOR THE NEO-CONSERVATIVE LIARS IN THE IRAQ WAR SCAM.:grr::argh::puke::nuke:

It's difficult to be hopeful even with hope on the way-the truth needs to be repeated though about THESE NAZI STOOGES!

They need to be prosecuted for their crimes, some of them are traitors-they require special handling.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer, ein Volk"
One People, one Empire, one Leader, one People

Stand up be brave my people we're here to stay, for a thousand years.
An oath you've spoken, can never be broken, you'll pay, in blood and tears
Never tire, never doubt, never falter, never slacken, Just believe in me.
Stand up, shout loud, stand proud, in what we will we will achieve.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. The Nazi Roots of the House of Windsor
NAZIs come with all sorts of accents, ja?

"Now ah'd goose-step a mile...for oil."

The Nazi Roots of the House of Windsor

by Scott Thompson

One of the biggest public relations hoaxes ever perpetrated by the British Crown, is that King Edward VIII, who abdicated the throne in 1938, due to his support for the Nazis, was a ``black sheep,'' an aberration in an otherwise unblemished Windsor line. Nothing could be further from the truth. The British monarchy, and the City of London's leading Crown bankers, enthusiastically backed Hitler and the Nazis, bankrolled the Fhrer's election, and did everything possible to build the Nazi war machine, for Britain's planned geopolitical war between Germany and Russia.

Support for Nazi-style genocide has always been at the heart of House of Windsor policy, and long after the abdication of Edward VIII, the Merry Windsors maintained their direct Nazi links.

So, when Prince Philip, co-founder with Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), tells an interviewer that he hopes to be ``reincarnated as a deadly virus'' to help solve the ``population problem,'' he is just ``doin' what comes naturally'' for any scion of the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy (see page 8 for more quotes from Prince Philip).

To get beyond the soap opera stuff and truly understand the Windsors today, it is useful to start with Prince Philip. Not only was he trained in the Hitler Youth curriculum, but his German brothers-in-law, with whom he lived, all became high-ranking figures in the Nazi Party.

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Ah yes.
That Philip is SUCH a lovely, warm fellow... :puke:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. America is feelingsortalike 1934 Berlin...
Or perhaps Spain, either in 1478 or 1936...

Fascism in America

The above may be old hat, but there's a TON of info at I wish my name were Soros, because I'd send a lot their way...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
33. Absolutely agree on all points -- especially the "special handling" part.
Traitors deserve a special Feith.

Is Iran Next?

The Pentagon neocons who brought you the war in Iraq have a new target

By Tom Barry

Shortly after 9/11, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith began coordinating Pentagon planning for an invasion of Iraq. The challenge facing Feith, the No. 3 civilian in the Defense Department, was to establish a policy rationale for the attack. At the same time, Feiths ideological cohorts in the Pentagon began planning to take the administrations global war on terrorism, not only to Baghdad, but also to Damascus and Tehran.

In August it was revealed that one of Feiths Middle East policy wonks, Lawrence Franklin, shared classified documentsincluding a draft National Security Presidential Directive formulated in Feiths office that outlines a more aggressive U.S. national security strategy regarding Iranwith the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and Israeli officials. The FBI is investigating the document transfer as a case of espionage.

This spy scandal raises two concerns for U.S. diplomats and foreign policy experts from across the political spectrum. One, that U.S. Middle East policy is being directed by neoconservative ideologues variously employed, coordinated or sanctioned by Feiths Pentagon office. And two, that U.S. Middle East policy is too closely aligned with that of Israeli hardliners close to U.S. neoconservatives.

Feith is joined in reshaping a U.S. foreign Middle East policyone that mirrors or complements the policies of the hardliners in Israelby a web of neoconservative policy institutes, pressure groups and think tanks. These include the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies (IASPS), Center for Security Policy (CSP) and the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA)all groups with which Feith has been or still is closely associated.

First Iraq, now Iran

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Since you mentioned Feith
I put your article and this together last night.

Feith family is one of Comcast's largest private shareholders

As Iraq struggles, critics zero in on Pentagon aide

Gen. Tommy Franks, field commander, and his deputy, Gen. Michael DeLong, opposed the idea. "A waste of time and energy for us," DeLong said of the plan in his book, Inside CentCom.

A halfhearted effort ensued, and by the start of the war, only 70 Iraqis had been trained.

Franks, now retired, described Feith both in his own book and in one written by the Washington Post's Bob Woodward as the "stupidest guy on the face of the Earth."

This took Feith by surprise.


Dalck Feith, now 90, owned a sheet-metal business that supplied parts for Jerrold Electronics, a firm founded by former Gov. Milton J. Shapp that made set-top boxes for cable TV. Through this connection, Dalck Feith got to know Ralph Roberts, founder of Comcast. Today, the Feith family is one of Comcast's largest private shareholders.

Douglas Feith's brother, Donald, runs Feith Systems & Software in Fort Washington, which sells computer programs that store huge numbers of documents. It has contracts with the Defense and Commerce Departments and other government agencies, as well as Comcast, AT&T, Toll Bros. and others. In the last two years, Feith family members have contributed at least $14,500 to President Bush, the Republican Party, and Sen. Arlen Specter (R., Pa.), according to campaign records.

The family also has strong ties to Israel. Feith's former law partner, Marc Zell, lives and works near Jerusalem.

This month the FBI began investigating Pentagon employee Larry Franklin, who works in Feith's organization, for allegedly passing memos to Israel. Feith has declined to discuss the probe.

James Zogby, head of the Arab-American Institute, a Middle East lobbying group, said Feith was too close to Israel's right-wing Likud Party.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. If Feith is so smart, how come Bush is prez-nit? Allah? Yahweh? God?
Certainly. All can be seen as God's will -- even vote stealing or a corrupt "supreme" court.

Thanks, seemslikeadream. You have what is known as presence of mind. Would that I and a large number of our fellow citizens also possessed it.

Hey, that Feith fellow may be on to something...

Christian Zionism and the Roadmap to a Palestinian State

By Dr. Habib Siddiqui


Christian Zionists, as pointed out by one of its vociferous cheerleaders, are increasingly the bedrock of Israels support in the United States, more solidly pro-Israel and more robustly Zionist than many in the Jewish community. They are truly the best assets that the Zionist state has outside Israel. That is why as soon as the so-called (now dead) road map for Palestine was announced its greatest opponents were Christian leaders like Gary Bauer, Richard Land, Cal Thomas and Jerry Falwell. Opposition came from Presidents own advisers and party leaders (see below). This was quite evident from the statements made at the last years Jerusalem Summit by Sen. Brownback (one of the keynote speakers at the RNC, Aug. 31, 04), Alan Keyes (a Republican senatorial candidate in Illinois), advisers Richard Perle and Daniel Pipes. Following Rabbi Benny Elons neo-fascist Moledat (Homeland) partys ethnic cleansing formula, the participants parroted the hymn Jordan is Palestine. They declared that the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River (including the Occupied Territories) belonged exclusively to the Jewish people because of biblical entitlement and was, therefore, not negotiable. The Summit presenters were unanimous in their agreement that the existence of a "Palestinian" state on the west bank of the Jordan River would be suicidal for Israel They also condemned UNRWA for what they called perpetuating the Arab refugee problem.

It is worth pointing out here that in May 03, Sharons Minister of Tourism Benny Elon was on a tour of the U.S. promoting his program of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians as the only viable solution. Joining Elons plan were Martin Peretz, publisher of the New Republic, and officials of the Christian Coalition and the Christian Broadcasting Network, as well as Garry Bauer and Christian talk show host Janet Parshall. (Interestingly, Ronn Torossian, Elons spokesman, is also the media director of the Christian Coalition. Revs. Falwell and Robertson were Elons hosts.)

Emboldened by the quick U.S. military victory in Iraq, the Amen corner (friends of Israel) within the Congress cried foul to the Palestinian road map. The House Majority Leader Tom DeLay called it a confluence of deluded thinking between European elites, elements within the State Department bureaucracy, and a significant segment of the American intellectual community. In a March 12, 03 speech at the Union of Jewish Congregations of America, DeLay, referring to the road map, had said: The Israelis dont need to change course. They dont need to travel the path of weakness as defined by the neo-appeasers. On July 23, 2003, he told the influential AIPAC, The United States must stand with Israel against Palestinian terror because Israels fight is our fight. During his trip to the Holy Land the next week, he told a thronged hall in the Israeli Parliament building, Standing up for good against evil is very hard work it costs money and blood. But were willing to pay. This, in spite of the fact that on July 11 a settler ran over and killed Yazan al-Tal, a 13-year old Palestinian child, south of Nablus and another 6-year old boy Mohammad Kabha was killed near Barta al-Sharqeyah by IDF within few days. What do you expect from fanatics like him?

For Christian Zionists like DeLay the systematic destruction of Palestinian culture by radical right wing Israeli Zionists is part of Gods Master Plan for the Holy Land. They believe that the Holy Land must be cleansed of Palestinians before the second coming of Jesus (and the appearance of anti-Christ); Israelis must control the Haram al-Sharif (the so-called Temple Mount), destroy Masjid al-Aqsa, and build their Jewish temple there. They offer, therefore, an uncritical endorsement of Israeli political right and a criminal lack of compassion for the Palestinian tragedy. In so doing, they have legitimized the oppression of the Palestinian people, Muslims and Christian, in the name of Jesus.


Another fine example of journalism from South Asia, I'm tellin' ya...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Well that's PNAC in action, that's why 9/11 was LIHOP by real traitors imo
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The unbearable likeness of being

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the U.S."
Gee. It was spelled out for the unelected moron. You'd think he could pick up the phone and call the FAA to warn the airports and flying public. Then again, the lazy ass coward WAS on vacation.

Hey, Psycho Bush! You should've told the FAA about what Putin, the Italians and NATO said about bin Laden in July 2001:

You've probably seen this Bob, but I hope it's new to other DUers and visitors:

Bush FEARED Osama Air Attack at the G-8 summit in July 2001

Here's EVIDENCE BUSH KNEW and DID NOTHING to stop the murders of 3,000 people. And it's from news reports before anybody ever heard of the 6 AUG 2001 PDB. In fact, both articles are from JULY 2001.

Smirk was scared of Osama at the G-8 summit in Genoa. In fact, the Italians (and I imagine the Americans) set up a SAM battery to protect the "dignitaries" and the unelected coward, who had to sleep onboard a US destroyer. This is BACK IN JULY, 2001 -- THE THREAT WAS THERE FROM OSAMA! Here's what set off the alarm bells...

Plot to assassinate Bush reports

July 9, 2001 Posted: 9:23 AM EDT (1323 GMT)

Bin Laden: Believed to have a network of guerrillas

MOSCOW, Russia -- Osama bin Laden has threatened to assassinate U.S. President George W. Bush at a G8 meeting in Italy, the head of Russia's Federal Bodyguard Service has said, according to reports.

The Associated Press said Yevgeny Murov was quoted by Itar-Tass news agency as saying: "Bin Laden is threatening the American president, but we know what international terrorism is today and therefore all the bodyguard units concerned are preparing for this.

"We view the threats as totally serious, but hope that with joint efforts we can solve all the problems."

The Group of Eight summit is meeting between July 20-22 in Genoa, Italy. Leaders from Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United States are expected to attend the summit.


Here's more...

Missiles to protect summit leaders

Rory Carroll in Rome
Wednesday July 11, 2001
The Guardian

Italy has installed a missile defence system at Genoa's airport to deter airborne attacks during next week's G8 summit, fuelling hysteria about looming violence.

A land-based battery of rockets with a range of nine miles and an altitude of 5,000 feet has been positioned in the latest security measure against perceived threats from terrorists and protesters.

Unidentified planes, helicopters and balloons risk being shot down should they drift too close to the heads of state from the group of seven leading industrialised nations and Russia.
Colonel Alberto Battaglini, of the ministry of defence, said the precaution was not exces sive. "The measure, which was planned by the previous government, may seem open to criticism, but in reality it is merely to act as a deterrent against any aerial incursion during the summit.

"They are little missiles ... which only have a deterrent function to discourage any aerial-led attack and they do not present any danger to the residents of the city," he said.


The Truth is our best weapon. It sure is nice to put some FEAR into the hearts of traitors. Please remember the dates. These are BEFORE 9-11.


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daddybear Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
32. Who knew?
Few Americans would have voted for George W. Bush four years
ago if he had promised that, as President, he would:
Empty the Social Security trust fund by $507 billion to help
offset fiscal irresponsibility and at the same time slash
Social Security benefits.
Cut Medicare by 17 percent and reduce veterans benefits and military pay.
Eliminate overtime pay for millions of Americans and raise
oil prices by 50 percent.
Give tax cuts to businesses that sent American jobs overseas,
and, in fact, by policy encourage their departure.
Give away billions of tax dollars in government contracts
without competitive bids.
Involve this country in a deadly and highly questionable war,
Take a budget surplus and turn it into the worst deficit in
the history of the United States, creating a debt in just four
years that will take generations to repay.

These were elements of a hidden agenda that surfaced only after he took office.

The publishers of The Iconoclast endorsed Bush four years ago, based on the things he promised, not on this smoke-screened agenda.


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Bush is a CROOK.
Economic chicanery is a Bush Family Value. Remember Poppy and Neil and the looting of the nation's Savings & Loans? Gangsters! Gangsters, I tell ya!

TRUST OR HUSTLE: The Bush Record

David E. Scheim

BACKGROUND ON THE S&L BAILOUT. The failure of hundreds of U.S. Savings and Loans during the 1980s, as detailed in such sources as Stephen Pizzos Inside Job1 and Pete Brewtons Untold Story,2 cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $500 billion.3 A U.S. House committee concluded that over three-quarters of all S&L insolvencies appeared to be linked to serious misconduct by senior insiders or outsiders.4 In 1988, the comptroller of the currency found that less than 10 percent of recent bank failures had been caused solely by economic factors.5

One indication of the role of criminal conduct in S&L losses was the workings of just one New York figure, Mario Renda, who worked in conjunction with the Mob, according to a sworn federal deposition.6 Renda brokered as much as $5 billion per year in deposits into 130 S&Ls across the county, all of which failed.7 As Kwitny noted, many of these deposits were made on the specific condition that the S&Ls would lend money out to borrowers Renda would recommend, who turned out to be local Mafia people or strangers from out-of-state.8

The Bush familys dealings illustrate some of the ways this S&L loot was extracted. In some loan transactions, money was simply siphoned out fraudulently to outsiders under lucrative arrangements with bank directors; Neil Bushs record illustrates these type of transactions. In other instances, as exemplified by Jebs S&L dealings, loans were made for speculative investments or ventures without attempts to secure repayment if they were not profitable. Political connections often helped protect S&L misconduct;9 in the Bushs case, George seniors record demonstrated laxity toward the perpetrators, several of whom were in his own social circles.


PS: Great post, daddybear! It's more than false advertising. Bush is a crook. Then again, he's jess bein' like his daddy. Who was just like his boss, Nixon. Who was handpicked by the military-industrial complex's handmaiden Prescott Bush, who was known as Hitler's Angel. And that explains why the unelected moron is just like Hitler.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
39. Hey! Just a cotton-pickin' minute there! Who're you callin' a
stooge? :evilgrin:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Sorry, KamaAina. I meant it in the W-orst way.
And with the best of intentions...

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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. Some more good pictures along that line...

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. W is for Wussy of the Wehrmacht.
Wow, Endangered Specie! Thassomecollection!

Here's an antidote to what the unelected psychopathic moron plans:

Bringing Down a Tyrant

By Norman D. Livergood

Today, the United States is in danger of being subverted and destroyed internally by a criminal, imperialistic ruling cabal centered in the Bush junta. Plutocratic cabals have previously tried to destroy this nation by achieving dominance in political and economic power. Such attempts in the past have resulted in abject failure and in the case we will examine, led to the destruction of the political party that tried to create a dictatorship.

By understanding the lessons to be learned from this previous attempt at despotism, Americans today can bring down the criminal Bush regime which seized power through a coup d'etat--the worst attack on the Constitution in America's history.

Prior to the American revolution, most nations were ruled by a single Power Group composed of those with money enough to buy war lords and religious and political ideologues with knowledge of how to manipulate the people. There were no countervailing power groups to fight against the monolithic cabals.

The American revolution was supposed to result in the creation of a republican form of democracy, with the various branches of government providing countervailing powers. However, the leaders of the clandestine 1787 Constitutional Congress concocted a flawed Constitution which made it possible for a plutocratic minority to seize all the reins of power.

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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. W is also for Waffen-SS
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. 63,000 Multi-Natls
Multi Natls

Who are the multinationals?

A multinational (or 'transnational') corporation is a company which operates in more than one country, as opposed to a purely domestic business which has no operations abroad. There are now 63,000 multinational corporations in the world, and between them they are responsible for two thirds of global trade and 80% of investment. They are the economic force behind globalisation.

A multinational (or transnational) corporation is a company which operates in more than one country, as opposed to a purely domestic business which has no operations abroad. There are now 63,000 multinational corporations in the world, and between them they are responsible for two thirds of global trade and 80% of investment. They are the economic force behind globalisation.

Many of the world's multinationals have developed into giant enterprises spanning the globe. The largest have annual sales greater than the entire economic output of many medium sized countries. On this calculation General Motors is bigger than Norway, Ford is bigger than South Africa and Shell is over twice as big as Nigeria. Of the largest 100 economic actors in the world today, 51 are corporations and 49 are countries. Multinationals share many interests, and pool their considerable power to lobby governments for policies which favour them. Bodies such as the International Chamber of Commerce, the European Roundtable of Industrialists and the Transatlantic Business Dialogue bring together the leaders of the world?s most powerful multinationals to influence global policies on trade and investment. Western governments have responded by giving multinationals an ever greater role in formulating international policy. It is now acknowledged that many of the liberalisation policies introduced by the world's governments over the past decade have come as a direct result of lobbying work by these groups.

*These are the Corps. that the Neo Fascists and the CIA work for.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. There's a new documentary that's a Must-See for you, Disturbed...
... "The Corporation."

The film makes an airtight case that today's corporations exhibit psychopathic behavior.

You probably have it on DVD already. But when I saw it, the audience at the Detroit Institute of Arts gave it a standing ovation.

PS: Thanks for the great response and link. I have a, um, personal grudge in regards to classic corporate behavior - and it's still considered new-school:

The Attempted Coup Against FDR

By Barbara LaMonica

The John F. Kennedy assassination represents a theme in our political history. The causes, even the inevitability, of the assassination were born out of the power struggles among the ruling elite which are consistent throughout the American story. These struggles revolve around questions of what is the proper role of government vis a vis the business communitys pursuit of its own self-interest. Is the governments role minimal or laissez-faire? Should government only provide a stable environment of "law and order", through increased police powers, conducive to the maximization of profits and the minimization of workers wages and benefits? Or does the government have a higher purpose? Is it responsible for the common good? Is it the one entity capable of implementing justice, equality, and a partial redistribution of wealth through the regulation and taxation of corporations in order to provide a cushion against the more egregious effects of the free market? Should it ensure the workers share in the profits they helped to create?

At various times factions of what has become known as "corporate America" have argued over which role of government is ultimately more advantageous to their own ends. Generally speaking, banking and Wall Street favor less government. Retail, light manufacturing and small to medium size corporations are more tolerant of an activist government which might put more money in the hands of their consumers, and protect small businesses against the unfair competitive practices of larger corporations.

The stock market crash of 1929 and the ensuing Great Depression dramatically thrust the question of governments role to the forefront of American political and corporate life. The election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt represented a revolutionary realignment of political power: the ascendancy of the Democratic party facilitated by new voting coalitions of rural south and industrialized north which dislodged the Republican Partys nearly seventy-year dominance, signaling the abandonment of laissez-faire economics in favor of state regulation. The losers in this political process coalesced into right-wing Republicanism, and the next sixty years of American history is, in part, the story of their attempt to regain power, reinstitute Lassiez-faire policies, and dismantle the New Deal.1 I would like to suggest that the forces behind the assassination of President Kennedy were born in the furies which the Great Depression unleashed between these competing sectors of American political and economic life.

I believe that in 1934 there was a foreshadowing of the JFK assassination. A conspiracy was uncovered in which right-wing elements of big business, namely the DuPont family and the Morgan banking interests, planned to finance and arm a veterans army to march on the White House and hold President Roosevelt captive.2 The conspiracy was reported by two- time Congressional Medal of Honor winner Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler. Although the House Committee to Investigate Un-American Activities found his allegations credible, it failed to call major conspirators to testify, and the Committee deleted crucial testimony from its final report to the public. The press relegated the story to the back pages, and discredited those, including Major Butler, who tried to alert the public to the threat against republican government. No prosecutions were forthcoming from the Justice Department, in part because the main witness who would have substantiated Butlers claims died suddenly from pneumonia at the age of 37. In short, there was a cover-up, maybe worse.



When FDR died...
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