PLAME INDICTMENTS # 19 - HIGH CRIMES & MISDEMEANORS-The Tip Of The Iceberg

[Pallas180]

AMERICAN JUDAS-

SELLING THE SECURITY OF AMERICA & THE WORLD FOR 30 PIECES OF SILVER

By Robert Paulsen- Compiled From the Research by Posters on “The Plame Indictment Threads” at Democraticunderground.com

1st Edition Abridged (Unabridged version available on General Discussion and Editorial Forums at DU)


A. Introduction

This paper is intended as a supplement to The Waterman Paper and an exploration into Goal #3: Why Cheney Exposed Plame. It involves researching possible connections between businesses connected to Vice President Dick Cheney that may be associated with the sale of WMD components to countries in the Middle East and Asia.

In addition to reviewing known information regarding the “leaking” of CIA operative Valerie Plame’s identity and the nature of her work, there will be an overview of A.Q. Khan’s network of nuclear proliferation, a listing of compromising positions involving financial ties in Cheney’s past and finally an exploration into possible links connecting Cheney to nuclear proliferation markets for profit.

B. Valerie Plame’s “Sting Operation”

On July 14,2003, Robert Novak exposed Valerie Plame’s identity as a CIA agent in his syndicated column. He sourced his story to two senior White House officials.(http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0602/p08s02-comv.html ) It is important to understand that, as Plame’s husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson says, “Compromising the officer means compromising a career, a network, and every person with who the officer might have ever worked. Slips of the tongue cost people their lives.”(The Politics of Truth by Joseph Wilson, p. 13.)

What was the nature of this career, this network that was compromised? Joe Klein hints at the broad outlines of this nature. “Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House’s revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components.”(http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,11010 ... )

According to Wayne Madsen, the cover company that Plame was connected with was a CIA firm called Brewster, Jennings & Associates. “Active since 1994, Brewster-Jennings was instrumental in tracking the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) and had agents or correspondents in a number of countries…Sensitive CIA operations that were compromised by the leak included companies, government officials, and individuals associated with the nuclear smuggling network of Pakistan’s chief nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan.”(http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062504_grand_ ... )
Yet in spite of, or perhaps as a result of, the compromises resulting from the leak, the CIA helped expose Khan’s network, according to Newsweek.. It involves a CIA investigation into a company in Malaysia called Scomi connected with an A.Q. Khan “middleman” named Bukhari Sayed Abu Tahir. Last August, the company's name was found stamped in bold letters on five crates of centrifuge parts seized en route to Libya. Since then Scomi has been at the center of an international detective story that has uncovered an astonishing global nuclear-weapons "black market." All of it leads back to Pakistani scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan, who fathered the underground network. In pursuit of both profits and a kind of Islamic nuclear parity, Khan passed on equipment and know-how to Iran and Libya, and made offers to Iraq and most recently Syria, officials say. Khan also helped North Korea's covert program.(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4270904 )

Could Cheney have had a financial relationship with the Nuclear Walmart, which would have provided a motive for exposing Plame’s operation? We shall explore this in sections D and E of this paper. First it is important to understand what is currently known about A.Q. Khan’s network before we uncover Cheney’s connection with it. The purpose of this examination is not intended as a comprehensive index of the network, but as an exploration into some of the more sinister elements of the network that led to relationships not only among state sponsors of terrorism, but to relationships with terrorist organizations themselves.

C. A.Q. Khan’s Nuclear Walmart

Nuclear experts are aghast at the size of the network, which extends from Switzerland to Japan to Dubai. Over 30 years, Khan put together what Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, called "a veritable Wal-Mart" for nuclear-weapons buyers, a not-so-secret netherworld where proliferation meshed with globalization. Khan even held nuclear-related symposiums. "The horse is out of the barn. At this point, we can't stop the technology from spreading," says former Clinton official Gary Samore. One senior U.S. official told NEWSWEEK that Khan's role in destabilizing the 21st century will "loom up there" with Hitler's and Stalin's impact in the 20th. Even so, most of the A.Q. Khan network's key operatives will likely escape punishment, officials concede.(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4270904 )

Who were some of the people and organizations connected with A.Q. Khan?

1. B.S.A. Tahir - The recent investigations into the clandestine nuclear proliferation activities of A.Q.Khan, the so-called father of the Pakistan atom bomb, have revealed that Bukhary Seyed Abu Tahir, a Sri Lankan Tamil Muslim of Indian origin, married in Malysia and with business interests in Kuala Lumpur and Dubai, was one of the external kingpins of Pakistan's clandestine nuclear procurement network. In a speech at the National Defence University of Washington DC in February last, President Bush had described this Sri Lankan Tamil-speaking Muslim as the "chief financial officer and money-launderer" of A.Q.Khan's clandestine operations.(http://www.saag.org/papers11/paper1026.html ) As chief financial officer, B.S.A. Tahir played an important role in his connection with a Malaysian company called Scomi that will be explored in greater detail in section E of this paper.

2. Lashkar-e-Toiba - or LET is a terrorist group of Pakistan, consisting of Pakistani, Afghan and Arab cadres, headed by Pakistani office-bearers, with its headquarters at Muridke near Lahore. Its annual conventions at Muridke are attended, amongst others, by serving and retired officers of the Pakistani military and intelligence establishment, by serving and retired scientists of the Pakistani nuclear and missile establishment and by political leaders.

Amongst those, who regularly attend its annual conventions, are Lt. Gen. (retd) Hamid Gul and Lt.Gen.(retd) Javed Nasir, both former Directors-General of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI),Dr. Abdul Qadir Khan, the self-styled father of the Pakistani atom bomb, Dr.Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, the former scientist of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission who was recently detained by the Pakistani authorities under US pressure for being in contact with bin Laden and Mohd.Rafique Tarar, former President of Pakistan.(http://www.saag.org/papers4/paper381.html )

3. Osama bin Laden – The following is an excerpt from an investigation by the Kashmir Herald into several of A.Q. Khan’s travels to Africa.

The uranium enriched at KRL, Kahuta, used to come from Africa, mainly Niger. This partly explains the frequent travels of A.Q.Khan to Africa. From the accounts given by the Pakistani author, two intriguing questions arise:

Why did Khan consider it necessary to visit the site of a factory in Sudan, which became the target of US Cruise missile attacks after the explosions outside the US Embassies in Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam by Al Qaeda in August 1998? The Americans had alleged at that time that this factory belonged to Osama bin Laden and was producing chemicals for weaponisation purposes. Denying this, the Sudanese authorities had claimed that it was producing anti-malaria drugs.
Why was he visiting frequently Timbuktu, which has apparently no importance from the nuclear point of view? Pakistani officials have alleged that he had illegally constructed a hotel there ( Hotel La Colombe?) in the name of his wife. If he was going there to supervise the construction of the hotel, he should have been accompanied by experts in building construction and the hotel industry. No such person accompanied him. He was always accompanied by scientists and Army officers associated with KRL and Tahir Mian, who was helping him in the procurement of centrifuges.

It is reliably learnt from well-placed observers that it also came out during the recent interrogation of the associates of Khan in Pakistan's nuclear establishment that after Osama bin Laden shifted from Khartoum to Afghanistan in 1996, Dr.Khan was also looking after bin Laden's extensive investments in the mining industry in many African countries and that the money invested in the Timbuktu hotel had come from these investments of bin Laden. The Pakistani authorities have reportedly suppressed this information and not shared it with the US.(http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/khanandbin ... )

This investigation has yielded some amazing information. In addition to widespread government cooperation with the network that has not been reported to the US, A.Q. Khan obtained uranium from Africa, mainly from Niger, where Valerie Plame’s husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, discovered the evidence that Iraq was trying to obtain uranium there was a forgery. Most frightening is the extent of Khan’s relationship with bin Laden, apparently trusted enough to look after bin Laden’s investments in Africa. Only time will tell how much bin Laden profited, both in monetary terms and in expanding al Qaeda’s WMD potential, from the generosity of Khan’s nuclear Walmart.

4. Unnamed U.S. Firm - More than 20 firms - including at least one American company - have supplied rogue nations seeking nuclear arms, marking the first time a U.S. company has been linked to the black market network. .(http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=r ... )

What American company would possibly have had the means and the motive to risk potentially treasonous activity by profiting off black market nuclear proliferation to terrorist organizations and their state sponsors? In the next two sections, an examination into the motives of why Dick Cheney, through his association with Halliburton, would have wanted a sting operation focused on A.Q. Khan’s nuclear Walmart terminated will be conducted, as well as an exploration into how the profits from such a treacherous enterprise could possibly have been laundered.

D. Compromising Positions in Cheney's Past

1. Cheney helped cover-up Pakistani nuclear proliferation in 1989 so US could sell country fighter jets. - When Pakistan's clandestine program involving its top nuclear scientist selling rogue nations, such as Iran and North Korea, blueprints for building an atomic bomb was uncovered last month, the world's leaders waited, with baited breath to see what type of punishment George W. Bush would inflict upon Pakistan's President Pervez Musharaff. Bush has, after all, spent his entire term in office talking tough about countries and dictators that conceal weapons of mass destruction and even tougher on individuals who supply rogue nations and terrorists with the means to build WMD. For all intents and purposes, Pakistan and Musharraf fit that description.

Remember, Bush accused Iraq of harboring a cache of WMD, which was the primary reason he gave for the United States launching a preemptive strike on that country a year ago, and also claimed that Iraq may have given its WMD to al-Qaeda terrorists and/or Syria, weapons that, Bush said, could be used to attack the U.S. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and top members of the administration reacted with shock when they found out that Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, spent the past 15 years selling outlaw nations nuclear technology and equipment. So it was sort of a surprise when Bush, upon finding out about Khan's proliferation of nuclear technology, let Pakistan off with a slap on the wrist. But it was all an act. In fact, it was actually a coverup designed to shield Cheney because he knew about the proliferation for more than a decade and did nothing to stop it.(emphasis added)

Like the terrorist attacks on 9-11, the Bush administration had mountains of evidence on Pakistan's sales of nuclear technology and equipment to nations vilified by the U.S. nations that are considered much more of a threat than Iraq but turned a blind eye to the threat and allowed it to happen. In 1989, the year Khan first started selling nuclear secrets on the black-market; Richard Barlow, a young intelligence analyst working for the Pentagon prepared a shocking report for Cheney, who was then secretary of defense under the Bush I administration: Pakistan built an atomic bomb and was selling its nuclear equipment to countries the U.S. said was sponsoring terrorism. But Barlow's findings, as reported in a January 2002 story in Mother Jones magazine, were "politically inconvenient."

"A finding that Pakistan possessed a nuclear bomb would have triggered a congressionally mandated cutoff of aid to the country, a key ally in the CIA's efforts to support Afghan rebels fighting a pro-Soviet government. It also would have killed a $1.4-billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Islamabad," Mother Jones reported. Ironically, Pakistan, critics say, was let off the hook last month so the U.S. could use its borders to hunt for al-Qaeda leader and alleged 9-11 mastermind Osama bin Laden. Cheney dismissed Barlow's report because he desperately wanted to sell Pakistan the F-16 fighter planes. Several months later, a Pentagon official was told by Cheney to downplay Pakistan's nuclear capabilities when he testified on the threat before Congress. Barlow complained to his bosses at the Pentagon and was fired. (http://www.pakistan-facts.com/article.php/2004031621042 ... )
"This was not a failure of intelligence," Barlow told Mother Jones. "The intelligence was in the system."(http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/031004Leop ... )

In a New Yorker article published on March 29, 1993, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh quoted Barlow as saying that some high-ranking members inside the CIA and the Pentagon lied to Congress about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal so as not to sacrifice the sale of the F-16 fighter planes to Islamabad, which was secretly equipped to deliver nuclear weapons. Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and had become so grave by the spring of 1990 that then CIA deputy director Richard Kerr said the Pakistani nuclear threat was worse than the Cuban Missile crisis in the 1960s.(http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?040119fr_arch ... )

In addition to these three sources that corroborate the fact that Cheney knew about A.Q. Khan’s network and rather than report it, chose to profit through sales to Pakistan of fighter jets that could deliver nuclear weapons, Cheney was caught on another case of nuclear proliferation.

2. Halliburton fined $1.2 million in 1995 for selling dual-use nuclear equipment to Libya. - Halliburton came under fire in the early '90s for supplying Libya and Iraq with oil drilling equipment which could be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Halliburton Logging Services, a former subsidiary, was charged with shipping six pulse neutron generators through Italy to Libya. In 1995, the company pled guilty to criminal charges that it violated the U.S. ban on exports to Libya. Halliburton was fined $1.2 million and will pay $2.61 million in civil penalties.

During his chairmanship of Halliburton, Cheney criticized U.S. sanctions against "rogue" nations such as Iran and Libya in a 1998 speech. According to a July 26, 2000, Washington Post story, Cheney complained the sanctions "are nearly always motivated by domestic political pressure, the need for Congress to appeal to some domestic constituency." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/article ... )

3. Existing Halliburton ties to Vice President Dick Cheney – Cheney neglected to mention that he was still due approximately $500,000 in deferred compensation from Halliburton and could potentially profit from his 433,333 shares of unexercised Halliburton stock options.(House of Bush House of Saud by Craig Unger, p. 225.)

Since Halliburton continues to engage in business practices with state sponsors of terrorism and Cheney continues to profit from it, all that is left to do is, in the words of Deep Throat, “Follow the money.” The proceeding section uses circumstantial evidence to show a relationship between several individuals and companies through which the unnamed US firm in Khan’s nuclear Walmart, presumably Halliburton, profited from nuclear proliferation.

E. Links in the Chain Connecting Cheney with Nuclear Proliferation

1. B.S.A. Tahir – Remember this man from Section C? This associate of A.Q. Khan who was identified by President Bush in a speech as the nuclear Walmart’s "chief financial officer and money launderer."(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4270904 ) BSA TAHIR, a SRI LANKAN businessman based in DUBAI was a trusted and close confidante of A. Q. Khan and was actively involved in supplying centrifuge components for Libya's uranium-enrichment program. BSA TAHIR, who was involved in the business of SCOMI PRECISION ENGINEERING SDN BHD (SCOPE). He used the company to produce components for the centrifuge unit for the uranium enrichment program. Furthermore, the supply of components by middlemen was carried out in a discreet manner and involved suppliers from other countries to blur the sources of the components. Some of the suppliers were believed to be aware that these components could be for uranium enrichment centrifuges. (http://icssa.org/Nuclear_Malaysia.htm )

Which companies could possibly have been connected with the suppliers that helped blur the source of the components? Amazingly, a connection between Scomi and Halliburton can be established with only one other company serving as a buffer between the two: Cognis.

a. Cognis – Service specialist Scomi Group Bhd, is offering multinational oil and gas companies a special fluid to make offshore drilling friendlier to the sea and its inhabitants. Scomi, together with German chemicals specialist, Cognis Gmbh, offers ester-based drilling fluid derived from palm kernel oil. The agreement is between Scomi’s wholly-owned Kota Minerals & Chemicals Sdn Bhd (KMC) and Cognis’ 50%-owned unit, Cognis Oleochemicals (M) Sdn Bhd.(http://www.mida.gov.my/beta/news/view_news.php?id=398 )

Sounds like a perfectly benign, perhaps even altruistic enterprise. How is this company connected with Halliburton? It’s through collaboration with one of Halliburton’s subsidiary companies.

b. Baroid – The drilling fluids containing esters based on renewable natural resources are developed by Cognis in collaboration with Baroid, the drilling fluids service company within the Halliburton Energy Services Group.(http://bbriefings.com/cdps/cditem.cfm?NID=252&CID=10&CF ... )

To reiterate the serpentine link:
A.Q. Khan's financial officer (money launderer) was B.S.A. Tahir. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4270904 )
Tahir used Scomi to produce components for the centrifuge unit for the uranium enrichment program. (http://icssa.org/Nuclear_Malaysia.htm )
Scomi, through its company KMC, worked with Cognis Oleochemicals. (http://www.mida.gov.my/beta/news/view_news.php?id=398 )
Cognis is connected with Baroid (part of the Halliburton Group). (http://bbriefings.com/cdps/cditem.cfm?NID=252&CID=10&CF ... )

But the extent of Halliburton/Cheney profiting from nuclear proliferation does not stop there. And Cheney is not the only member of the Bush administration to profit from it.

2. Donald Rumsfeld - Rumsfeld was on ABB board during deal with North Korea.
The Swiss-based ABB on Friday told swissinfo that Rumsfeld was involved with the company in early 2000, when it netted a $200 million (SFr270million) contract with Pyongyang. The ABB contract was to deliver equipment and services for two nuclear power stations at Kumho, on North Korea’s east coast. Rumsfeld – who is one of the Bush administration’s most strident “hardliners” on North Korea – was a member of ABB’s board between 1990 and February 2001, when he left to take up his current post. Wolfram Eberhardt, a spokesman for ABB, told swissinfo that Rumsfeld “was at nearly all the board meetings” during his decade-long involvement with the company.(http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=10 ... ) It’s bad enough for Rumsfeld to profit off selling nuclear equipment to North Korea. But it doesn’t end there, the organizations involved in this transaction link back to Halliburton once again.

a. KEDO - ABB, which was already building eight nuclear reactors in South Korea, had an inside track on the $4 billion U.S.-sponsored North Korea project. The firm was told "our participation is essential," recalls Frank Murray, project manager for the reactors. (He plays the same role now at Westinghouse, which was acquired by Britain's BNFL in 1999, a year before it also bought ABB's nuclear power business.) The North Korean reactors are being primarily funded by South Korean and Japanese export-import banks and supervised by KEDO, a consortium based in New York. "It was not a matter of favoritism," says Desaix Anderson, who ran KEDO from 1997 to 2001. "It was just a practical matter."(www.worldmessenger.20m.com/news4.html )

b. KNOC - The KEDO (Korean Peninsula Energy Development Organization) is the official Korean government energy corporation. By reading their 2001 energy development summary one can make out all the myriad countries that contribute to KEDO. North Korea lacks necessary production facilities to drill and test for its oil. It is reaching out to many firms and countries to help them while the government attempts to develop some oil fields with as much capital as it can muster. A Singapore firm recently announced (August 29, 2002) significant oil and gas reserves in North Korea. Additionally, Halliburton has partnered with KNOC to develop offshore drilling platforms in South Korea.(www.rmfdevelopment.com/political/NorthKoreaOil.htm )

Yet another serpentine link through which money could be laundered into the willing hands of Halliburton.
Rumsfeld-ABB (http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=10 ... )
ABB-KEDO (www.worldmessenger.20m.com/news4.html )
KEDO-KNOC-Halliburton (www.rmfdevelopment.com/political/NorthKoreaOil.htm )

But were these links completely separate, or is it possible that there were any other companies besides Halliburton involved with both links of possible proliferation profits? One company not previously mentioned has relationships with companies on both links.

3. Goldman Sachs – a lucrative investment firm that is listed quite prominently as one of the main investors in Cognis on their website.(http://www.cognis.com/framescout.html?/company/company .... ) Also there is a link with Donald Rumsfeld to two organizations, Bilderberg and ABB through the chairman of Goldman Sachs, General Peter Sutherland from Ireland. Some of the Western world's leading financiers and foreign policy strategists attend Bilderberg. Rumsfeld is an active Bilderberger. So is General Peter Sutherland from Ireland, a former European Union commissioner and chairman of Goldman Sachs and of BP. Rumsfeld and Sutherland served together in 2000 on the board of the Swedish/Swiss energy company ABB. ( http://www.fact-index.com/b/bi/bilderberg_group.html )


These links are not in and of themselves direct proof of the laundering of nuclear proliferation profits. But they are proof of a relationship between these companies sharing common goals, through which individuals involved in nuclear proliferation, and there were many in these companies, could operate their network covertly.

F. Conclusions and Recommendations – To conclude, this paper asserts that Dick Cheney is directly responsible for the leaking of Valerie Plame’s name that resulted in sabotaging her CIA career and her cover company, Brewster, Jennings & Associates. CIA operations that were compromised by the leak were associated with A.Q. Khan’s network of nuclear smuggling. Khan’s network, vast enough to be dubbed by IAEA chief Mohamed El Baradei a “nuclear Walmart”, was examined here for the connections it has with terrorist organizations and state sponsors, as well as areas in which the CIA could have been following their activities.

It proves conclusively that Dick Cheney knew about A.Q. Khan’s nuclear Walmart as early as 1989, and chose not to expose the network but to profit from it, which gives him the strongest motive to blow Valerie Plame’s cover. State sponsors of terror that were proven recipients of Cheney’s nuclear proliferation include Pakistan, Libya and possibly Iran. The links between Khan and Cheney involved suppliers from other countries designed to blur the source of the components, but research concludes individuals affiliated with collaborative companies such as Cognis and their investor Goldman Sachs would be the most obvious links in the chain. Such links also exist in the case of Donald Rumsfeld profiting through ABB’s $200 million sale of nuclear equipment to North Korea, which would prove that Halliburton profited from this example of nuclear proliferation as well.

The main recommendation to all who read this is to spread the word. Anyone who reads this who is in a position to investigate this matter further, whether as an activist, investigative reporter or government official, should do so with care and thoroughness. The names and organizations listed in the paper should, with a proper investigation, lead to more damaging evidence that will help solve the crime and establish justice. That is perhaps the most important aspect of this case to remember, that regardless of the prestige and power connected with the parties involved, this is a criminal investigation. It is hoped that no matter what your political persuasion is, that as a law abiding citizen, you stand with us in condemnation of the exposure of Valerie Plame’s identity as a CIA agent as a highly criminal act, and join us in the pursuit of justice for the perpetrators.

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[Pallas180]

1. Toll Free Phone # To Congress 1 800 839 5276

Toll Free Phone # To Congress 1 800 839 5276


use it and let them know you want judicial hearings and
criminal charges brought against these people who have
been committing treason against the US for more than 20
years while inside the government.

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2. The Danger To The Constitutional Democracy by Waterman

The Danger To The Constitutional Democracy by Waterman


THE DANGER TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY BY Waterman Jul-25-04


The Revolutionary Presidency vs The Bill of Rights


1) Introduction

This paper will examine the dangers to constitutional democracy posed by the Bush Administration. It will review the concepts of separation of federal powers, the practice of the balancing of those powers, and scrutinize several areas where Bush/Cheney have corrupted this constitutional system that our democracy is based upon.

This paper will focus primarily on how the growing menace of an Imperial Presidency of the Nixon era has become the threatening reality of the Revolutionary Presidency today.

2) The Balance of Powers

A- The theories behind the constitutional democracy of the United States are the "distinctive American contribution(s) to the art of government." (The Imperial Presidency; Schelsinger; pg vii)

The idea of the 13 Colonies forming a confederate federal state came directly from meetings between Founding Fathers, primarily Ben Franklin, and the Grand Council of the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy. Jefferson was influenced by the Iroquois' concepts of the freedoms of individuals; these, along with the contributions of progressive European thought (found primarily in France), led to the Bill of Rights.

However, in European history, governments had assumed a unified authority that allowed them to control, and deny, basic human rights to citizens of the state. Jefferson and Madison and others created the more perfect union, which allowed citizens to control the government through a series of checks and balances implied in the separation of powers on the federal level.

B- The three branches of the federal government are the executive, legislative, and judiciary. These three are intended to form a balanced triangle. The separation of powers is not intended to make all three to be locked into an equal status; rather, it offers checks and balances that creates an inertia that keeps any one branch from assuming unlimited powers. The goal, according to Justice Brandis (Myers v US 1926) is "not to promote efficiency, but to preclude the exercise of arbitrary power."

The executive, or the office of the president, has the implied power to provide leadership in emergency situations. In our early history, from the Revolutionary to the Civil War, this power was used only to respond to threats to the safety of citizens ( re: pirate attacks, which generally came from Tripoli, and which share important parallels with today's situation) and wars with foreign nations.

In these cases, these emergency powers were onlyintended for a brief period, before congressional controls took over. The Senate is the seat of the actual war powers. Further, according to Supreme Court Justice James Wilson, "The House of Representatives ... forms the grand inquest of the state. They will dilegently inquire into grievences, arising both from men and things." (Grand Inquest; New York; 1961; pgs 22-30)

C- The history of democracy has been imperfect in the United States. The most basic rights have been denied to both groups and individuals, based upon their sex, age, race, and religion. Issues including gay marriage show that we still have a long way to go.

Yet, for all of its faults, our constitutional democracy has shown the greatest of promise. The efforts of each generation of Americans has brought us closer to providing the rights of free people to a larger, more inclusive population. This is a great nation.

From the Revolutionary to the Civil War was known as the "Golden Age" of the congress.Also, the sequence of presidents, and the series of federal courts moved the nation towards the promise of the Founding Fathers, found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

The reasons were found not only in those great documents, but in that separation and balance of powers at the federal level. These insured the Bill of Rights was a living entity. In fact, while many today note that President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil war, there "was no effective censorship, no Sedition Act, no Espiionage Act." (Schlesinger; pg 335)

However, after the Civil War, changes in the economy which were a result of the change from an agrarian to industrial national base, led directly to unprecedented influence of business on the national politics. This new level of extreme corruption led Mark Twain to refer to the phenomenon as the "Gilded Age" of politics.

It is important to note that all of industry would be connected, either directly or indirectly, to the production of oil. By 1870, all of the economies of the industrialized nations were based on oil. The significance of this is explored in greater detail in the book, "Farewell America."

D- Business interest rapidly became central to the decision-making processes of (1) citizens electing officials to the legislative and executive branches; and (2) the domestic and foreign policies of those elected officials in both branches. While the federal courts are defined as the branch that is supposed to "do the least harm to democracy," the changes in the executive and legislative branches created changes in the judiciary, just as surely as the pulling of two sides of a triangular mobile suspende above the crib of democracy.

Thus: (1) the president begins to increasingly dominate the legislative process; (2) the congress increasingly delegates its authority to the president; and (3) the federal courts tend to become "activist" to offset congressional impotence. And despite the best of intentions, and while acknowledging the value of many progressive decisions, the federal courts should not be "activist," as the dangers posed by current federal courts demonstrate.

3) Threats to our Constitutional Democracy

The deteriorative influences of business interests on the separation of federal powers accelerated during WW2. If we examine the relationship of the competition of the world economy on American political life, we can note a progression in the executive branch (including FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, & LBJ) moving towards the Imperial Presidency of the Nixon Era. The two areas where this threat to our constitutional democracy were concentrated were (a) the war powers, and (b) secrecy. (Schlesinger)

The history of the war powers in terms of the president responding to a threat to the nation's security evolved significantly after WW2. This was due to the influence of the military industrial complex. All American foreign policy, with the exception of some initial attempts by JFK which ended on 11-22-1963, equated the access to foreign resources with national security, and domestic security with bureaucratic secrecy.

This was in opposition to the 64th Federalist Paper, in which John Jay interpreted the Constitution to recognize but two needs for federal secrecy: (1) diplomatic negotiations, and (2) intelligence.

Democracy by its very nature demands the disclosure of information by all three branches of government. Even among the widely varying opinions of the Founding Fathers, there was complete agreement that the free diffusion of information was vital to insure a stable federal government.

Yet as the executive branch created an elastic definition of "national security," the presidents began a more undemocratic relationship with the bureaucracies of the military indistrial complex. And the instinct of bureaucracy is "to increase the superiority of the professionally informed by keeping their knowledge and intentions secret." (Max Weber: Essays in Sociology; Grath & Mills; New York; 1946)

4) External Threats to our Constitutional Democracy

The external threats to the USA from WW2 to the prsent tend to fit into three groups: the Nazi/ Axis powers; the communist menace; and the Islamic terrorist/"axis of evil" group of today. With the exceptions of Pearl Harbor and 9-11, all defined threats to our national interest tended to be defined as occuring in other countries, either to American business interests, or to trading partners. The cultural implications of Pearl Harbor and 9-11 are obvious.

Another external threat to our national security has become known to a large segment of our population through a cultural phenomenon, Michael Moore's movie "F 9-11." The threat is posed by foreign investments going beyond a few acres of land, or shares in a corporate stock. F 9-11 demonstrates clearly that a significant segment of our economy is controlled by foreign governments. One, for example, is Saudi Arabia. The Saudi royal family shows no appreciation for constitutional democracy.

Moore's movie demonstrates that the Saudi royal family is able to compromise the balance of powers in our federal government. Their influence with the Bush administration has stopped a serious investigation into what role they played in the 9-11 attack on the USA; allows them to manipulate what information becomes known to the American public; and interferes with the legal system, when James Baker represents the Saudis in a court action filed by the families of 9-11 victims.

5) The Revolutionary Presidency

The danger to our constitutional democracy could be measured in 2003 by the following: (a) the Bush administration was comprised almost exclusively by people with ties to business that define "conflicts of interest;" (b) both houses of congress, if not impotent, had at least agreed to a legislative abstinence of duty; the only elected representitives who attempted to stand up to the executive were from "minority" populations; and (c) the US Supreme Court had disgraced the judicial institution with its 2000 selection of Bush for president, based entirely upon political and economic interests.

The dangers of an imperial presidency pales in comparison to the current threat posed by the revolutionary presidency. Consider that: (a) George Bush has become the most absolute monarch of any world power in today's world. Add to that the fact that VP Cheney has more concentrated power than any dictator in world history, including Mao Tse-tung; (b)the congress is divided and weakened. The Senate has lost any control over the White House urge for increased war-making, and the House of Representatives no longer enquires into grievences, unless they concern issues such as oral sex rather than Enron, 9-11, the Plame exposure, or the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of black citizens in Florida; and (c) the idea of 13 Colonies demanding freedom of speech is disgraced by 13 states having "libel" laws making it illegal to express concerns about food farms, or the safety of related "agro-business" food products. (Crimes Against Nature; Robery Kennedy, Jr)

6) You Reap What You Sow

The Bush administration rules through fear, the "threats" to national security that they define, through manipulating the 9-11 national emergency, and through secrecy. Their policies pose a threat to individual liberties in order to benefit business interests, and they are the greatest threat to constitutional democracy today. The extent of this threat is exposed by a series of books associated with John Dean, Richard Clarke, Paul O'Neill, Robery Kennedy, Jr., and many others. It is also exposed to grass-roots America by the movie "F 9-11."

The reaction of the administration is to attempt to discredit the individuals involved in exposing the political corruption of this administration. This is not a new tactic. Before the FBI focused on Martin Luther King's sex life, before the COINTELPRO operations of the 1960s and '70s, we remember the efforts of two congressional leaders in the mid-50s. Senator Thomas Hennings, Jr. and Rep. John Moss questioned the bureaucratic secrecy that threatened the democratic system, by discussing why the government labled a Pentagon study of the bow & arrow ("Silent Flashless Weapons") as "top secret."
They were accused of threatening national security.

This administration and its corporate sponsors, including the news media, are involved in a similar campaign to discredit critics. This campaign includes Ambassador Joseph Wilson. (see Plame Indictment Threads #1-12)

An unintended consequence of the high level of bureaucratic secrecy is that it leads to no respect for individual secrecy. This is evident from a reading of the Patriot Act: things like medical and library records, which should be protected by the US Constitution, are no longer private.

Further, the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative stands as the moststark example of the administration's contempt for the rights to privacy implied by the Constitution.

7) Conclusion

At the time of the American Revolution, the "founding fathers" met in secret. They were almost exclusively from the "upper class," and needed to keep their actions secret from King George. While they may have spoken more openly as individuals, their group efforts were not known to the upper class, including the newspapers of the day.

However, the middle class and the poor spread the word. They were aware of King George's spies, so they spread the word on a democratic underground. It took root -- and grass roots democracy has been the most important part of the foundation for this country ever since. The grass roots are more powerful than those three branches of the federal government.

We're in similar circumstances today. Our president is no more in favor of democracy than old King George was. We have two chances of kicking him out of power. The most obvious is the election in November. But there's also the Plame Indictments.

If there is any life breath in the balance of powers, the legislative and judiciary must do their jobs. This is a criminal outfit. There are now numerous "upper class" people organizing to hold this administration liable for their crimes. It's not just democrats hoping to reclaim the presidency in 2004. It's a wide range of citizens who know that Bush and Cheney intend to fully destroy the constitutional democracy we should enjoy.

You and I aren't meeting in their secret get-togethers. We're that grass-roots democratic power. Our primary job is to continue to educate the public, register voters, and increase participation in those treasures defined by the Bill of Rights. Please work to spread the message about the Plame Indictments. We've seen a preview of the administration's late summer counter-offensive.

Let's expose them as totally offensive.

Thank you,
H2O Man

[Pallas180]

3. The Waterman Paper as published on the front page of DU

The Waterman Paper (Plame Affair - High Crimes & Misdemeanors)

The Waterman Paper (as published on the Home Page of Democratic Underground)

The Waterman Paper
By H2O Man


This paper examines the possibility that Vice President Dick Cheney orchestrated the "leaking" of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity to the news media in the summer of 2003, in order to accomplish three goals.

These include (1) to punish Joseph Wilson for challenging "16 words" in President Bush's 1-28-03 State of the Union address; and (2) to intimidate other sources from publicly challenging the White House's version of events involving the "war on terrorism" and the US invasion of Iraq. Both of these goals are well-known from numerous reports on this White House scandal.

The other, (3) is that VP Cheney was attempting to derail an investigation that Plame may have been involved in at the time that her identity was exposed. This third potential goal has not been the subject of any major media attention.
The author of this paper put it forward on an internet forum, the Democratic Underground, in early July, 2004. The resulting eleven DU "threads," which consist of over 3,000 posts from interested citizens across the country, is the only known forum debating this theory.

Besides the eleven DU "Plame Indictment" threads, the information in this paper comes from the following four sources: The Politics of Truth, by Joseph Wilson; Worse Than Watergate, by John Dean; Don't Tread on Joseph Wilson, NYT book review by John Dean on 5-23-04; and Plenty to Swear About, by Joe Klein, Time, 7-5-04.

Time Line

While the case involving Wilson's investigation in Niger, and the White House's efforts to expose Plame is long and complicated, this paper will focus on a "time line" established by Wilson in his book.

1. Jan '02: The first reports of a Niger-Iraq uranium connection surface in the White House.

2. Feb '02: Wilson is asked to investigate by the CIA.

3. March '02: Wilson returns from Niger and briefs the CIA on the investigation. His conclusion supports those of two others that there was no Niger-Iraq connection.

4. Jan '03: Bush includes the "16 words" in his State of the Union address.

5. On or about March 5, '03: the CIA gives VP Cheney an oral report, informing him of Wilson's conclusions.

6. March 7, '03: the IAEA announces the US's documents on Niger-Iraq are forgeries.

7. March 8, '03: (a) a State Department spokesperson admits, "We fell for it" in regard to the forged document; (b) Wilson tells CNN that the State Department has more information on the subject; and (c) a workshop meeting is held in VP Cheney's office. It is attended by top republican officials, possibly including Cheney, Scooter Libby, and Newt Gingrich. The group discusses ways to discredit Wilson.

8. June 8, '03: Condoleeza Rice denies knowledge of the weakness of the Niger uranium claim on Meet The Press. She states, "Maybe someone down in the bowels of the Agency knew about this, but nobody in my circles."

9. July 6, '03: Wilson's NYT op-ed is published. By the following day, two senior White House officials began contacting at least six reporters, informing them of Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA operative.

10. July 8, '03: Reporter Robert Novak tells a complete stranger on a Washington street: "Wilson's an asshole. The CIA sent him. His wife, Valerie, works for the CIA. She's a weapons of mass destruction specialist. She sent him." In the following days, Novak would ask the CIA for confirmation of Plame's identity. He was asked not to print her name or identity in any article regarding Wilson.

11. July 14, '03: Novak's article exposes Plame.

12. July 20, '03: NBC's Andrea Mitchell tells Wilson that senior White House officials told her that the "real story" was not the 16 words, but was Wilson and his wife.

13. July 21, '03: NBC's Chris Matthews tells Wilson that Karl Rove called him and said," Wilson's wife is fair game." Matthews said he would confirm that if asked.

This time line indicates that while the exposing of Plame's identity was a result of Wilson's op-ed, it was also part of a larger strategy that had been planned in VP Cheney's office since March 8. It clearly confirms goal #1: by exposing Plame, and putting her safety at risk, the White House had severely punished Joseph Wilson.
It also supports goal #2: the White House had a strategy to intimidate any other potential intelligence operatives from exposing the administration for distorting information regarding Iraq.

Likewise, the exposing of Plame supports goal #3: exposing Plame put an immediate end to any activities that Plame was participating in at the time. This is supported by Wilson (pg 345): "She immediately began to prepare a checklist of things she needed to do to minimize the fall-out to the projects she was working on."

Also, Wilson notes: "Compromising the officer means compromising a career, a network, and every person with who the officer might have ever worked. Slips of the tongue cost people their lives." (pg 13)

The Leakers' Identities

Robert Novak sourced his story to two senior White House officials. Other reporters, including Andrea Mitchell, made mention of the two unidentified senior White House officials. These two are among the at least six reporters contacted by these two officials.
Chris Matthew's call identifies Karl Rove as being involved in the efforts to make "Wilson's wife ... fair game." This call took place after the calls from the senior officials to the six reporters.
Wilson's book indicates a belief that the two senior officials were Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Eliot Abrams. Abrams is no stranger to White House disgrace, having been convicted on two charges during the Iran-Contra scandal.

There is evidence the three were operating with the knowledge of, and perhaps under the direction of VP Cheney. The March 8 "workshop" in VP Cheney's office indicates that this was a long-standing, well-organized effort to discredit Wilson. As Wilson notes (pg 387) : "... a plan to attack me had been formed before the moment. It was cocked and ready to fire .... an organized smear campaign directed from the highest reaches of the White House."

Cheney and Pre-War Intelligence

Those involved in the "workshop" to discredit Wilson were also active in efforts to influence pre-war intelligence reports. On page 6, Wilson discusses "leaks" that Cheney, Libby, and Newt Gingrich pressured the intelligence community "to skew intelligence analysists" to fit their own needs.

On page 338, Wilson notes that these three reportedly intimidated analysts by implying, "if you do a 'Wilson' on us, we will do worse to you."

Wilson notes (pg 434) that VP Cheney runs a "parallel national security office," which has no congressional oversight, and hence can "circumvent long-standing and accepted reporting structures and to skew decision-making practices."

As a result, as reported by Joe Klein in Time (7-5-04) "the intelligence community is at war with the White House." Klein notes that "multiple intelligence sources" indicated to him their belief that Cheny strong-armed out-going CIA Director George Tenet, to make him support Cheney and Rumsfeld's positions on Iraq.

Cheney, Niger, and Wilson's Trip

Wilson notes a report on a possible Niger-Iraq yellow cake uranium transaction had "aroused the interests of Vice President Dick Cheney." (pg 14) Cheney's office "had tasked the CIA to determine if there was any truth to the report." (pg 14)

It is clear that Cheney was aware of the Niger report, and had directed his office to have the CIA do an investigation of it. There is evidence that on March 5, the CIA gave VP Cheney an oral report on Wilson's findings. This was three days before the State Department spokesperson told the media, "We fell for it," and that Wilson told CNN that the State Department had more information on that subject. March 8 was also the day that the "workshop" to discredit Wilson was held in Cheney's office.

"What I Didn't Find" vs "16 Words"

The White House retracted President Bush's infamous 16 words immediately after Wilson's op-ed appeared in the New York Times.
On 7-13-03, Condi Rice told Fox News Sunday that, "It is ludicrous to suggest that the president of the United States went to war on the question of whether Saddam Hussein sought uranium from Africa."
On 7-14-03, Robert Novak exposed Valerie Plame's identity. It is important to recognize that Novak was aware that Plame was an operative who specialized in WMDs, and that he had been asked by the CIA not to reveal her identity, or even print her name, in an article on Wilson.

The White House continued to engage in efforts to discredit Wilson, including sending three identical e-mails of "talking points" to Keith Olbermann when Wilson was appearing on MSNBC's Countdown.
1982 Intelligence Identity Protection Act

Wilson notes that the administration had already acknowledged the Niger-Iraq link was unsubstantiated, and that logically, they should have focused attention on how the 16 words made their way into the president's State of the Union address. The effort to expose Plame's identity made little sense. (pg 7)

Later, he continues with, "The White House gained nothing by publicizing Valerie's name..." (pg 7)
"Then it struck me that the attack by Rove and the administration on my wife had little to do with her, but a lot to do with others who might be tempted to speak out." (pgs 5-6)
"The decision of the president's people to come after me .... arose from no concerns over the emergence of secrets from my mission -- there weren't any." (pg 339)
"However offensive, there was a certain logic to it. If you have something to hide, one way to keep it secret is to threaten anyone who might expose it. But it was too late to silence me." (pg 338)


Goal #3: Why Cheney Exposed Plame

Wilson notes that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor, pointed out that since the Bush people had never backed down before, the fact that they had been "so quick to admit their error this time meant they must have something more important to protect." (pg 4)

In Worse Than Watergate, John Dean calls the exposing of Plame the "Dirtiest of Dirty Tricks." He writes that "revealing her identity damaged the national security and her career, and resulted in the loss of a valuable government asset." He called this action "literally life-threatening." (pgs 170-171)

What could have possibly been so important to VP Cheney that he oversaw the violating of the 1982 IIPA, and risked a White House scandal? The answer clearly can not be found in goals #1 or #2.
The answer, which supports goal #3, appears in Klein's article: "Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. ..... 'Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll' of the CIA, an intelligence source told me."

And that very high-ranking official may have known through his parallel national security office about the activities that Plame was involved with at that time. The answer to goal #3 likely is to be found in the checklist of things Valerie Plame did to mitigate the damage done by Novak's article immediately after she read it.

Conclusions

This paper presents direct evidence that the intelligence group that operates out of VP Cheney's office orchestrated the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, in order to realize goal #1, the "punishing" of Joseph Wilson for publicly challenging President Bush.

It includes both direct and circumstantial evidence from sources including Wilson, Dean, Klein, and others, that indicates they also had goal #2 in mind: to intimidate any other potential sources that could challenge their reasons for invading Iraq, as well as other measures in their "war on terorism."

Yet these two goals alone do not explain why VP Cheney would (1) take part in a measure that would violate a federal law against exposing a CIA operative, or (2) risk a serious scandal for the Bush Administration.

The possibility that VP Cheney was hoping to derail a sting operation involving Valerie Plame, which is our identified goal #3, does explain why VP Cheney would condone the breaking of the federal law, and risk the most serious scandal that this administration faces.

Further research by an ad hoc DU "think tank" has identified possible connections between businesses connected to VP Cheney that may be associated with the sale of WMD components to countries in the Middle East. It is our belief that this theory and the evidence that supports it needs a more in-depth investigation.
At the time of publishing, the most recent message board thread on this subject can be found here:

PLAME INDICTMENTS - "HIGH CRIMES & MISDEMEANORS- THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG"




July 24, 2004

[Pallas180]

4. COVER- UP OF TREASON" COLOR FLYER FOR DISTRIBUTION

COVER- UP OF TREASON" COLOR FLYER FOR DISTRIBUTION


COVER UP OF TREASON -color flyer to distribute everywhere


. Just click on the URL below and print it out


http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/letter.pd


About this flyer and why we have made it: We, you and I, are THE grass-roots democratic power.

It's your country. You and we have to help ourselves by this movement against non stop war on other countries, on our jobs,on
our standard of living, and most of all the war on our liberties and
the Constitution.

Our primary job is to continue to educate the public, pressure Congress through our letters, faxes and phone calls, register voters, and increase participation in those treasures defined by the Bill of Rights.

While thousands of us on the internet truly know the danger this country is on the verge of, millions who are not on the internet have no idea of the neo-con/PNAC One World Government and destruction
of our Freedoms through the Patriot Act.

Here's an easy way to work to spread the message about the Plame Indictments, Sibel Edmonds' and the High Crimes and Misdemeanors committed by elected officials and their appointees in this administraton:

Become ACTIVELY involved in educating the American public without drawing attention to yourself. You can spread the word of our Government's deception and betrayal from one citizen to another without any personal exposure.

Here's how: Make ten or more copies of these "letters" and leave them in a public place where someone else will find it and read it. Ideal locations for maximum exposure include book stores, copy shops, libraries and train stations. Buses, taxis, laundromats, and check-out lines at the grocery store. Hair salons, rest rooms, gas stations and convenience stores. Anywhere you happen to be will work just fine. Do this every week from now until November.

You can just happen to leave this flyer everywhere you
visit (just cut and paste into "Word" and print or print directly in color from URL above ) and you'll know you've done your part to help protect America from the most destructive force that has ever occupied our government.

GO FOR IT !

with thanks to DU'er Dist22Dem for this magnificent professionally
printed color flyer

[shraby]

5. Way to go!!!

Now where were we? :crazy:

[Pallas180]

6. PREVIOUS 18 PLAME THREADS IN PDF WORD FORMAT

PREVIOUS 16 PLAME THREADS IN PDF WORD FORMAT


Plame PDFs 1-16 can be found here,
http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/PlameIndictments.html


Plame Indictments Thread # 17 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Plame Indictments Thread # 18 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2191498&mesg_id=2191498&page=

[Pallas180]

8. MEDIA LIST SET TO GO FOR EMAILING

MEDIA LIST all set up for e mailing


list of other media contacts, here's some for you.

[email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected]



other individual reporters or news outlets can be found at
Drudgereport.com

(sorry, it's the pits but the news contacts are nicely listed for
us. )



Individual Reporters & Newspaper List

forgive me, it's on the drudge rag site, but it's useful

http://www.drudgereport.com /

[Pallas180]

9. DIRECTORY TO CONTACT ANYONE IN CONGRESS

DIRECTORY TO CONTACT ANYONE IN CONGRESS


www.congress.org - for a directory to ANYBODY on the Hill, AND their

local/regional offices.

[Tweed]

7. Please tell me that you are on the investigative team

You should be honored by someone for your work on this! You have done so much on this thread.

[shraby]

10. Join in the fun!

Find a name in the American Judas paper and trace their movements and misdeeds down by googling.

[Pallas180]

14. Shraby

check your du mail

[RebelYell]

20. I'll start at the bottom of American Judas

and google those names tomorrow - boss will be on vacation, I'll have some time.

'Nite all!

[Pallas180]

11. Thanks Tweed, If you check the threads you will find that many

of us are the Plame Think Tank Investigators, and we have one heck
of a super group of sleuths.

Nancy Drew and Columbo - Step Aside :)

[Pallas180]

12. Uh Tweed - are you offerin to take us all out to dinner <grin>

cause we'll take you up on it...preferably in the summer, we hear
Chicago is bbrrrr cold in the winter.

:)

Thanks again for appreciating us. It is a tremendous amount of
research and the people on these threads have numerous professional
and specialized talents and luckily were drawn together to work as
a team.

[shraby]

13. This thread needs kicked

before it sinks. Don't know if mine will work, but here goes.
:kick:

[Me.]

16. List of Journalists Called Before the Grand Jury

From DU:

List of Journalists Called to the Grand Jury

grytpype (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-13-04 02:51 AM
Response to Original message


According to this article, she (Judith Miller) and two dozen journalists were subpoenaed in March:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0306-02.htm

The list is:

Robert Novak, "Crossfire," "Capital Gang" and the Chicago Sun-Times

Knut Royce and Timothy M. Phelps, Newsday

Walter Pincus, Richard Leiby, Mike Allen, Dana Priest and Glenn Kessler, The Washington Post

Matthew Cooper, John Dickerson, Massimo Calabresi, Michael Duffy and James Carney, Time magazine

Evan Thomas, Newsweek

Andrea Mitchell, "Meet the Press," NBC

Chris Matthews, "Hardball,"

MSNBC

Tim Russert, Campbell Brown, NBC

Nicholas D. Kristof, David E. Sanger and Judith Miller, The New York Times

Greg Hitt and Paul Gigot, The Wall Street Journal

John Solomon, The Associated Press

Jeff Gannon, Talon News
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Alert Printer Friendly | Edit | Reply | Top

Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Aug-13-04 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #289

[swag]

23. I don't think the article says those j's were subpoenaed in March

What the article says is that White House Records relating to these journalists were subpoenaed in March.

"A federal grand jury has subpoenaed White House records on administration contacts with more than two dozen journalists and news media outlets in a special investigation into the improper leak of a covert CIA official's identity to columnist Robert Novak last July. They include:

Robert Novak, "Crossfire," "Capital Gang" and the Chicago Sun-Times

Knut Royce and Timothy M. Phelps, Newsday

Walter Pincus, Richard Leiby, Mike Allen, Dana Priest and Glenn Kessler, The Washington Post

Matthew Cooper, John Dickerson, Massimo Calabresi, Michael Duffy and James Carney, Time magazine

Evan Thomas, Newsweek

Andrea Mitchell, "Meet the Press," NBC

Chris Matthews, "Hardball,"

MSNBC

Tim Russert, Campbell Brown, NBC

Nicholas D. Kristof, David E. Sanger and Judith Miller, The New York Times

Greg Hitt and Paul Gigot, The Wall Street Journal

John Solomon, The Associated Press

Jeff Gannon, Talon News

...................

I may be missing something here, but I think the article reads that the records and not the journalists were subpoenaed in March.

Now on with the show.

[Me.]

24. You Are Correct Swag

Got too excited

[swag]

25. Well, it was cool to think about

Anyway, if they haven't all been subpoenaed, they probably will be.

The Salon article in LBN is interesting.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/08/13/plame_leaks/index_np.html

re: appeals and delay of indictments, as well as details.

Nothing new to this thread in the article, I'm sure (though I haven't been a close reader for the past few weeks), but the author of the Salon piece doesn't see the indictments coming any time soon.

[Me.]

17. List of Journalists Called Before the Grand Jury

From DU:

List of Journalists Called to the Grand Jury

grytpype (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-13-04 02:51 AM
Response to Original message


According to this article, she (Judith Miller) and two dozen journalists were subpoenaed in March:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0306-02.htm

The list is:

Robert Novak, "Crossfire," "Capital Gang" and the Chicago Sun-Times

Knut Royce and Timothy M. Phelps, Newsday

Walter Pincus, Richard Leiby, Mike Allen, Dana Priest and Glenn Kessler, The Washington Post

Matthew Cooper, John Dickerson, Massimo Calabresi, Michael Duffy and James Carney, Time magazine

Evan Thomas, Newsweek

Andrea Mitchell, "Meet the Press," NBC

Chris Matthews, "Hardball,"

MSNBC

Tim Russert, Campbell Brown, NBC

Nicholas D. Kristof, David E. Sanger and Judith Miller, The New York Times

Greg Hitt and Paul Gigot, The Wall Street Journal

John Solomon, The Associated Press

Jeff Gannon, Talon News
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Alert Printer Friendly | Edit | Reply | Top

Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Aug-13-04 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #289

[Me.]

18. Judith Miller Subpoened

From over at DU, neo-con fav Judith Miller has now been subpeoned



TrueAmerican (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-13-04 02:45 AM
Original message
Judith Miller subpoenaed (PLAME)

Edited on Fri Aug-13-04 02:45 AM by TrueAmerican

A reporter for The New York Times, Judith Miller, was subpoenaed Thursday by a Washington grand jury investigating the disclosure of the identity of a CIA undercover officer to the syndicated columnist Robert Novak and other journalists.... MORE...

No link yet. From muckraker, DRUDGE.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[TacticalPeek]

26. There are Miller articles today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x747363

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x746923


And on legal maneuvering, from Salon:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=747144#747457

[Pallas180]

32. thanks, good morning TACTICAL PEAK

:hi:

[TacticalPeek]

50. Some interesting bits from Dan Froomkin at WaPo, re: Miller et al..

"The subpoena to Ms. Miller was only the most recent of a series issued to journalists in a politically sensitive inquiry that has on several occasions led investigators to question White House officials."

This is a bit of an odd twist, as Miller was not one of the reporters who wrote about Plame's identity. In fact, as Liptak notes: "The Times has not published any articles saying it received information about Ms. Plame's identity."

Miller's name may be familiar to some of you because she has been under fire lately for being insufficiently skeptical in her reliance on former Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi as a trusted source for her reporting.

My thought: This adds some substance to the theory going around town that prosecutors don't want so much to ask all these reporters they're subpoenaing about who leaked Plame's identity to them -- but instead are curious about some sort of corollary issue that either a witness or the target of the inquiry has raised.

For more, see Tuesday column.

more (my bold)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62918-2004Aug13.html?nav%3Drss_politics/administration/whbriefing

[H2O Man]

54. You have hit the nail on the head.

Ms. Miller may have information from a social event that can help put the key events into sharp focus.

[Me.]

19. Sorry for the Dupe!

Though I wish the list WAS doubled.

[Pallas180]

21. Mr. Fitzgerald "Goes To Town"

"And on July 16, her husband, Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan, was honored at a White House reception held to celebrate former President Gerald Ford's 90th birthday. The grand jury subpoenaed the guest list, which has not been released. "

[HootieMcBoob]

48. are you from PIttsburgh?

just wondering.

[Pallas180]

15. Tweed. Isn't Dick Durbin one of yours?

tell him Pallas salutes him. He's remarkable and admirable.

If we had another 499 like him this country would be on the correct
path. IMHO

[shraby]

22. Pallas

you have some du mail.

[NewJeffCT]

27. great post - is it in PDF at all?

I saw it last week or the week before, but want to make sure that I have the most recent one?

Thanks

[Pallas180]

47. Hi Jeff Ct - re PDF

sorry the last two are not in PDF...when one of our expert computer
guys comes along, I'm sure they'll fix it.

[RebelYell]

28. Here's the Ellsberg & Edmonds press conference

Per RP's inquiry (My apologies if it's been posted previously)

Whistleblowers ask federal workers to come forward with 9/11 evidence

US Newswire
GoveExec -June 14

Two government whistleblowers on Monday called on federal workers to come forward if they have information that could help investigations of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The request was made by Sibel Edmonds, a former FBI translator who alleges that the government knew more details about the 9/11 plot than it has admitted, and Daniel Ellsberg, a former Marine who leaked the Pentagon Papers about the Vietnam War to the media in 1971.

"If there are people right now who know either the same information that Sibel had and believe that it's wrongfully being withheld, or comparable information, then I believe that they should go to Congress, but also to the press and put that out even at great risk to their careers," said Ellsberg, who gave the Pentagon Papers to Congress and the media. "Many, many lives are at stake here, and it's well worth telling the truth, even at personal sacrifice."...

Edmonds, a Turkish-American, worked in the FBI's Washington field office from Sept. 20, 2001, to March 2002 as a contract linguist. She was given top-secret security clearance and hired to retranslate material that was collected prior to Sept. 11 to determine if anything was missed in the translations relating to the plot. She concluded that documents clearly showed that the 9/11 hijackers were in the country and plotting to use airplanes as missiles to carry out an attack in a major city. She said documents also included information relating to terrorist financial activities.

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=427

[RebelYell]

29. Pallas - you have DU mail n/t

[Pallas180]

30. SHRABY & REB

check your mail

we have sun until about noon, then rain is supposed to start again
and we are still under tornado watch - we didn't sleep very well last
night, kind of keeping an ear out for winds and tornados..

Yawn....

later guys

[linazelle]

31. kick

[loudsue]

33. Had to find this on page 3 of GD forum!!!

So....gonna kick it back to page 1!!

Family member in intensive care -- have to run for now!!!

Keep up the good work, DUers!!

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Pallas180]

34. LOUDSUE -

we're sorry to hear of family health problems - and we're sending
light and wishes for recovery.

Pallas

[H2O Man]

35. best wishes, loudsue .....

we'll all be thinking of you....

[loudsue]

42. Thanks Pallas & H20 Man ..... I'm home!!

Just now catching up and beginning to read what's been going on.

My new Mo in law (and good friend) is one tough little lady. She still has a battle in front of her, and is going to be in intensive care for about a week (or so they say). But she's going to make it through this!!!

O8)Thank you for your concern! O8)

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[H2O Man]

43. That's good, loudsue!

We're all pulling for you. And we'll all keep you and your family in our thoughts and prayers.

[truth2power]

36. Just lurking here, but I'll give it a kick.

:kick:

[Pallas180]

37. Ex CIA Director Woolsey: Paladin Corp. - "have gun,will travel?"

another tidbit from the "support the war, profiteer" faction of the
PNAC:

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com /

WOOLSEY'S WEB: STRUCTURAL CORRUPTION & IRAQ

WALTER F. ROCHE JR. HAS AN ILLUMINATING PIECE TODAY in the Los Angeles Times on the clan Woolsey -- exposing some of the Iraq contract connections of Suzanne Woolsey, the former CIA Director's wife. In January 2004, she became a director of Fluor Corporation, which has $1.6 billion in Iraq related contracts. She also serves as a director of the Institute for Defense Analyses which also has war interests, and received modest compensation for that role according to the article.

James Woolsey serves as Vice President of Booz Allen Hamilton with at least $89 million in Iraq defense contract interests. Roche's article also points out that Suzanne Woolsey is also affiliated with Paladin Capital Group, a venture capital firm where her husband serves as a principal and director.

A reader of The Washington Note entry on Woolsey tipped me off to James Woolsey's Paladin connection last week -- and I was somewhat stunned by the brazen language of the "Paladin Homeland Security Fund" that Woolsey helps direct. I realize that many intelligence and military officials make natural fits for defense related firms when they leave public service -- but I think that big, inappropriate lines get crossed when individuals help fan wars, in which people die, and financially benefit from the result. A recusal from war profits should be standard for talking heads and policy commentators when it comes to sending American men and women into harm's way.

Here is the "statement of concern" for the Paladin Homeland Security Fund:

The end of the Cold War has proven not to be the end of global conflict. Today, conflict often manifests itself in a new form of guerilla warfare: terrorism. This form of conflict extends vulnerabilities beyond military institutions to civilian populations and commercial infrastructure. As the emergence of sophisticated communication and information networks blurs many of the past separations between government and industry and between domestic and global interests, security needs transcend traditional borders between nations and between governments and industry. The events and aftermath of September 11 highlight the need for both governments and industry to address these security concerns. As a result, recognition of the need for homeland security products and services to address these threats is growing. The nation and the world now look to find new ways to take advantage of the shared concerns between governments and industry and to develop new methods to collaborate for security and for technological and economic benefit. These concerns, together with the changes in the global business environment, offer substantial promise for homeland security investment.

Roche's article hits the bull's eye on the increasing web of interests between those who blur the lines between their public and private roles, something we heard a lot about regarding Richard Perle -- but Woolsey adds much more texture to this trend since he was the first to allege the still unproven connection between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda.

-more-


LATimes referred to:

Private, Public Roles Overlap in Washington

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-wo...

[Pallas180]

40. Is Pappy going to try to smooth feathers? looks like it to me:

http://www.smh.com.au/olympics/articles/2004/08/13/1092340430944.html

Papa Bush sails in under warship escort August 13, 2004 - 10:19AM

"Former US President George Bush - known locally as "Papa Bush" - has arrived in Athens on a Greek billionaire's yacht escorted by a Greek warship and three coast guard boats.

On the eve of the opening ceremonies, British Prime Minister Tony Blair also arrived amid tight security - the first of several world leaders expected to use the Olympics to further diplomacy.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is due to fly in today and is expected to hold talks with Greek Premier Costas Caramanlis, who also will meet the Bosnian and Ukrainian premiers, the government announced.

Former President Bush is leading the US delegation and began an Aegean Sea tour on financier Spyros Latsis's yacht Dumara, which will be home to Bush, his wife, Barbara, and granddaughters Barbara and Jenna, along with a team of secret service agents.

State-run NET TV reported that among the expected personalities are French President Jaques Chirac, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, Russian President Vladimir Putin, Italy's Premier Silvio Berlusconi, members of Spain's royal family and the sole heir to the Greek tycoon Aristotle Onassis' fortune, Athina Roussell."

[Pallas180]

41. Out of curiosity, a google finds banking and oil:

it's good to have friends in the oil business who also own banks
as you do....and to also own the Promis machine for non traceable
transfers...a money lauderer's dream, no?


Yiannis Latsis also known as John S. Latsis - Greek shipping tycoon notable for his great wealth, influential friends, and charitable activities.

Latsis was educated at the Pyrgos School of Commerce and the School for Merchant Navy Captains. Latsis began working as a deckhand, eventually holding posts as a ship's captain. He bought his first cargo vessel in 1938 and by the 1960s owned a fleet of ships. In the late 1960s he diversified his business to include oil---establishing Petrola---and construction before gradually expanding into banking and financial services.¯ His European Financial Group owns banks in the UK, Switzerland, Monaco, the Channel Islands, and Greece. The family's $4.4-billion fortune landed Latsis in the 101st position on the 2004 Forbes Billionaire's List.

His charitable works began with the establishment of the Latsis Scholarships Institute in 1970 and also included the provision of aid to earthquake victims and the creation of the Latsis Foundation The Latsis Foundation is a charitable foundation, founded by the Greek shipping magnate John Latsis. Amongst other activites, it funds the European Latsis Prize.

Latsis lent his private yacht, The Alexandros to notable figures such as The Prince of Wales, President George H. W. Bush, and Secretary of State Colin Powell.

[Wind Dancer]

38. just a reminder that Sy Hersh's new book

will be available 9/18.

Chain of Command: The Road from 9/11 to Abu Ghraib


From the Publisher
From the brilliant investigative reporter who exposed the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, a revealing and unflinching look behind the public story of the Bush Administration’s “war on terror,” its intelligence failures, and the lies and obsessions that led America into Iraq.
Thirty-five years ago, Seymour Hersh established himself at the forefront of investigative journalism with an expose of the massacre in My Lai, Vietnam, for which he won a Pulitzer Prize. Ever since, he’s been a relentless thorn in the side of America’s power elite, plumbing Washington back channels and the intelligence community for the stories that others can’t or won’t tell. In the crises that followed the September 11th attacks, Hersh found a challenge equal to his explosive energy. From the hunt for the hijackers to the dubious claims about weapons of mass destruction, Hersh has delivered inspired pieces that have been met with both acclaim and outrage-including his breakthrough reporting on Abu Ghraib, which helped redraw the political landscape in the crucial months before the 2004 elections. This much anticipated collection of his New Yorker writings since 2001 is a revealing and unflinching look behind the public story of the Bush Administration’s “war on terror,” its intelligence failures, and the lies and obsessions that led America into Iraq. With an introduction by New Yorker editor David Remnick, it includes a number of previously unpublished stories, as well as an account of Hersh’s pursuit of the Abu Ghraib piece and of where, he believes, responsibility for the scandal ultimately lies.



Pallas, thanks again for putting another thread together, stay safe during the storms.

Lordsue, please keep us updated, sending my thoughts and prayers your way.

[Pallas180]

39. Thanks DemInNC, and all the sweet DU'ers who have expressed

concern... I had a feeling the storm wasn't going to keep going
North, it came East, but further north than here... this is the
"hairy" season and they expect as many as 11 storms.

We're under a tornado watch...but thank goodness no rain, no thunder,
no lightning.

[loudsue]

44. Pallas...glad to know you're safe down there!!

From what I understand, it bypassed you guys, and went on to hit Kissimmee ....and other republican strongholds!! (LOL!!) I'm glad you're not feeling the fury of this one.

Thanks to you, to, DemInNC....I'm in NC, too! We caught the front winds/rain of someone's hurricane today, didn't we?? I understand the next typhoon hits tomorrow.

<loudsue: donning snorkel and fins>

That deal about Woolsey's wife: I had the pleasure (?) to work, peripherally, w/ her on a project before the world changed on 9/11 and we all lost our professions.

I've never seen anyone have so many fingers in so many things at once. She's like her own political machine...gives a whole new meaning to office politics. Connected to everyone she was "supposed to be" connected to.

Sorry I have nothing more pertinent to contribute to the thread so far....it was just a personal note. I guess it makes these jokers a little more personal when you know you've looked them in the eye.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Pallas180]

46. Wow Sue. How can they look anybody in the eye? Greedy, greedy

left overs from the 80's ...Reagan years when "greed" was good.

[Pallas180]

122. Tidbits on the "gang"

http://prorev.com/bush4.htm

[kohodog]

45. Sy Hersh is awsome

One of the great journalists of these times. I'll have to read the book.

I feel so far behind...been way too busy. But if we have a rainy weekend I may be able to catch up and actually contribute. For those of you who have been able to keep up, I think you'd be amazed at the progress that has been made in these threads.

The Salon article that was linked seemed to indicate that the issue of confidentiality of reporters may take a while to solve, perhaps going to the Supreme Court. It's an important issue and one that shouldn't be taken lightly. If it does go to the SC we probably won't have resoultion before the election. I'm sure they're positioning for this and hoping to stack the Courts. But Nixon was re-elected before Watergate got really heavy. I like the drip, drip of information that is starting to happen though. It will continue to accumulate until they find their situation untenable.

Anyway, hi to all, and to a productive weekend!

[TacticalPeek]

49. It's true that the wheels of justice sometimes creak at a snail's pace.

And I recall my bewilderment at Quaker Dick's reelection, when CREEP's role in Watergate was widely known.

But . . .

The difference with this current WH gang: DOJ and FBI are not the only ones stalking them. :evilgrin:

No way Shrub is reelected. The only question is: how many kitchen sinks will it take?

[Pallas180]

51. SIBEL EDMONDS SAID

"Here are those Edmonds quotes,

“There are certain points... where you have your drug related activities combined with money laundering and information laundering, converging with your terrorist activities.” Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?



"The 9/11 terror plot intersected with the activities of a drug trafficking network of international scope, in ways that form a "crystal clear" picture of what was going on.” --Sibel Edmonds.


"You have a network of people who obtain certain information and they take it out and sell it to … whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East, and their connections. It is only then that you really see the big picture. The post-9/11 ntelligence 'failures' included the willful quashing by the government, of investigations tracing these criminal networks.-- Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator



WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?


“The real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal… Everything from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And yes, there are certain convergences (between) these activities and international terrorism." -Sibel Edmonds

“After almost three years the American people still do not know that thousands of lives can be jeopardized under the unspoken policy of ‘ protecting certain foreign business relations.” —Sibel Edmonds


WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?

[Pallas180]

52. It almost sounds like

the attack on the WTC was an act in a drug war between rivals.

[H2O Man]

55. Almost like a mafia hit?

"Mafia" is a bad word .... I mean organized crime, of course. In the United States, we know for example that there are numerous "families" that have competed and cooperated with each other -simultaneously- over a period of decades. And that even (perhaps especially) when two families are cooperating, someone who is kind of a loose cannon in one may - for reasons of "honor" - strike at the other family. Creates problems. Does the family give him up? Or trade some business interests? That's exactly what you have here.

[Pallas180]

56. No. more like

the drug lords killing each others' families - & in a way Edmonds seems to be hinting at something like this when she refers to "certain business interests"

Nevertheless, the only way to do what needs to be done is to
search and google the internet in the same way we did with Plame.

Conjencture is fine. Irreverent remarks are always welcome :)

But the serious work is the finding of fact.

My own belief/theory is that it's going to lead us to the same place that Plame led us. Just from a different direction.

Perhaps if we were to draw a picture , it would be of spokes going
into the hub of a wheel. The different avenues going into the Truth.

[Pallas180]

58. The thought

that the World Trade Center devastation could have been
a result of "a payback" for encroaching on someone's poppy
fields or drug territory or other type of "trade" territory
is almost unfathomable.

But a lot of what has been discovered as fact on the Plame threads
is beyond what anyone would believe possible of their government.

[H2O Man]

60. It's possible

that "drug lords" is another way of saying "organized crime." I'm beginning to think that you are the Taurus here! (smile)

[Pallas180]

53. WHO ? WHAT ?

Whether you are solving a question or writing a story, the questions
you ask are: Who, What, When, Where, Why.

On the 18 Plame threads, we've done a lot of WHY? and have come up with a salient theory of the Why?.

The Why of Plame has brought us also to Sibel Edmonds.

In the same way we found the answers to Plame on the internet through googling and finding published responsbile sources, we should be able to find answers and secrets involving Edmonds' "forbidden information.

Except - in the Edmonds matter we know Why? - we are searching for Who?, What?, and Where?

Our clues to what she may have discovered (which caused her to be fired and threatened not to talk to the media or any senators and prompted FBI Director Mueller to have DOJ Ashcroft place a gag order on her) are in Sibel Edmonds' own words, in the interview above, and
even more so in this interview:

http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=2917


Somewhere in the fact that Sibel Edmonds was a translator of the Iranian Farsi language and the Turkish language and the Turkic language of Azerbaijani, are our clues to Who? and What? and even Where? .

What are the answers to Who and What and Where she is referring?

[H2O Man]

61. Pallas:

This is a recommendation that I think would be helpful to you, and to the others on the Plame threads. There are a number of good books on Usama Bin Laden. In my opinion, the best one is by Yossef Bodansky, called: "Bin Laden - The Man Who Declared War on America."

Bodansky is "an internationally renowned military and threat analyst, is the director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Uncoventional Warefare, (and) a former senior consultant to the US Department of Defense and State."

My guess is that if you were working for a private investigator, and were looking into a devastating case involving mafia/organized crime/drug lord/religious fanatics, and someone like Bin Laden were potentially involved, you would wanta thorough back-ground study on him.

Again, there are several good books on him. But I think Bodansky's is the best. I think if you read the index, you'd be pleasantly surprised to find more than a dozen of the names that the research staff from the Plame Threads has taken note of. They just might be put in a different order, so to speak .... and sometimes seeing connected facts in a different sequence puts things in an entirely different light.

[Pallas180]

133. H20 - did you know Bodansky was considered a propagandist

for the right?

His book on OBL doesn't say much that is not known.

Was there something in particular he wrote you thought was important?

And can you post it?

[H2O Man]

136. I realize that his

political sympathies are on the right. I'd be interested in any serious discussion of how that would make this particular book "propaganda." I think the entire book is important. I do not think that because a person has views that are on the right, that it is wise to discount them. Again, we may look at the exact same set of facts, and come to an entirely different conclusion. But that does not mean we should not look at the facts.

Perhaps if your husband has a Patrick Buchanan book to loan you ..... Patrick B. is an Irishman, too, you know .... and probably has some similar ideas to your husband .... at least from the impression you've given me. You might find that Pat has the ability to compile a wide array of facts that tend to imply the Bush dynasty is as nasty as you and I think ..... though we likely do not agree with him on many other things.

[TacticalPeek]

144. Agreed. I always found Bodansky informative.

I believe he was (is?) a staffer on the Hill, and got quite a bit of TV time in the first year or so of our current war on Terra. He was quite accomplished at correcting errors of data and interpretation flowing from 'journalists' at the time. But he seems to have dropped off of all the producers' guest lists. Perhaps his facts became unwelcome?

Like Buchanan, Bodansky seems capable of a certain intellectual honesty, a trait not always admired on the right, IMHO.

[Pallas180]

148. No, No Buchanan books around the house :) I can appreciate

some of his viewpoints - that occasional flash of truth - just
as junior occasionally lets a truth slip out - "I'm going to export
murder and chaos"....

[H2O Man]

150. Buchanan has opposed

the bush family since the early 1970s.

[H2O Man]

149. Thanks ....

The important thing is not his personality, or his political beliefs, or his taste in music or wine ..... it's the vast amount of information that he has gathered. People should consider the information ..... because facts are neither democratic or republican ....and use that information to build their own theories and/or opinions on.

Again, for the Plame Threads to reach a point where the wonderful research and analysis would hold up in a debate at the next level, it simply has to grow and mature. And this is an option. It requires that people are willing to consider a much wider range of information. Growth is hard, of course, and it is human nature to witness some negative responses to such suggestions.

There is another book that I would suggest for people who have read the Bodansky book on Bin Laden. It too was on the NYT's bestseller list: "Jihad vs McWorld" by Benjamin R. Barber; Ballantine Books;1995 .... although you should get the 2001 edition, with the new introduction.

Now, I realize one of my best friends is going to say, "But damnit, Waterman, I don't LIKE McDonald's food!" ..... and my only response is that it is Water Man .... not Waterman ... and you have to be able to understand other cultures in order to understand the world today. The insistance of viewing everything from an American point of view is, in fact, one of George W. Bush's greatest weaknesses.

[loudsue]

62. Well, let's try to put some pieces in to fill in the blanks...

g'mornin Plamers!

From Pallas' post a few posts up from here on Sibel Edmonds quotes:

“There are certain points... where you have your drug related activities We know that the bush family/Poppy bush CIA is heavily into the drug trade.combined with money laundering We also know that Jonathan Bush's Riggs Bank has recently been indicted and charged w/ $$ laundering, and had to close their Florida-based (Jeb Bush) international banking dept. and information laundering Again Poppy's CIA has plenty of information to launder, if they so desire. Also, Cheney's Halliburton, and Rumsfeld's former company (I can't remember the name right now...ABB?), and Carlyle ALL have access to nuclear weapons information, as well as components and weapons information. We also know that Chalabi, through his relationship w/ the boys in the Pentegon (Perle, Wolfowitz) was telling Iran all kinds of cute military secrets, during the same time frame that Iran is developing a nuke -- in fact, that's where Chalabi is staying on vacation as we write this...Iran), converging with your terrorist activities.” And here we're back to Iran again, and their relationship with fundamentalists and terrorists, and Kahn's nuclear Wal-Mart, both through Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?



"The 9/11 terror plot intersected with the activities of a drug trafficking network of international scope,We already know that the drug $$ is coming from the drug cartel that bush took over (stole) from the Medallin cartel in Columbia, under the guise of "the war on drugs" that he raged while in office.

Poppy, surely, was also wanting Afghanistan to start growing his poppies again, as the Taliban had been cutting into his profits by outlawing poppies. The bush family and ancestors had been in the poppy (opium) business since the late 1800's.

His oil company buddies also wanted to build the pipeline across Afghanistan, and in the early days of dubya's regime, pre 9/11, shrub had offered the Taliban "a carpet of gold, or a carpet of bombs"; and shrub also had the war plans against the Taliban on his desk prior to 9/11.

Since we also know that Muslim fundamentalists in Pakistan/Afghanistan had been rubbing elbows with Kahn's more fundamentalist nuclear scientists, I strongly suspect that part of dubya's threat/bargain to the Taliban had come to a head (mafia war) concerning not only oil, but poppies, as well. The Taliban, I believe, prolly wasn't ONLY using the pipeline as a bargaining chip (to get WMD components and the means to launch/use them), but possibly the poppies, as well....which I think pissed off Poppy and his family/business partners.

I also wonder if the "war lord" dubya planned to put in at the head of the new Afghani government -- the guy who got killed just as we were going to war w/ Afghanistan/Taliban, might have been Poppy's former DRUG lord connection there as well, which is prolly why some thug from the other side of the equation bumped him off. Then the bush cartel had to shop around, and they put in Karzai instead. A lot of this was also involving the "istans" (Uzbekistan, etc) adjacent to Afghanistan.
in ways that form a "crystal clear" picture of what was going on.” --Sibel Edmonds.


"You have a network of people who obtain certain information Kahn, CIA, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Feith, Chalabiand they take it out and sell it for drug $$ and poppy-growing rights, and oil rights (pipeline, which was supposed to bail out Enron, since they had already invested so much) to … whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East (bush clan, CIA, Mena), and their connections. It is only then that you really see the big picture. The post-9/11 ntelligence 'failures' included the willful quashing by the government (bush), of investigations tracing these criminal networks.-- Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator



WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?


“The real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal… Everything from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And I also believe these arms sales were funding the opposition to the Chavez government in Venezuela, as well as other coups around the world. And yes, there are certain convergences (between) these activities and international terrorism." -Sibel Edmonds

“After almost three years the American people still do not know that thousands of lives can be jeopardized under the unspoken policy of ‘ protecting certain foreign business relations.” —Sibel Edmonds

Here she's also talking about Saudi Arabia's bin Laden family, as well as the Saudi royals. It also includes, no doubt, Pakistan's Musharref.


WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?

<loudsue: speculating, brainstorming>

Ok....NOW the questions about WHY the drug/oil/nuke mafia war that brought about 9/11. We have to ask some peripheral questions also. Is ANY segment of these wars about some kind of nationalism vs. globalism on the part of any of these groups? We KNOW the PNACers are globalists. We know Muslims are "homeland" traditionalists. Their religious beliefs are tied to their Holy Lands. Nothing, NOTHING is "holy" to the bush cartel except $$ and power. Could this be where the bush cartel failed to consider the culture of the other players, and ran afoul of their negotiations due to cultural miscalculation? After all -- 9/11 was an attack on what would represent a bush family "holy shrine".

And yet...fully KNOWING the WTC was the target of the Muslim retaliation, the bush cartel allowed the bombing to engage the U.S. taxpayers in their little drug/global war. In fact, there's overwhelming evidence that they even 'helped it along' some .... like allowing the apparent demolition-style collapse of both WTC buildings, and the seemingly (?) unrelated #7 WTC, as well as the strange situation at the pentagon bombing.

Ok. That's all I could come up with. Russia, Malaysia, Syria, Turkey (concerning the Kurds, who figure in here somehow)....all these play a part as well, but I'm just trying to look for a framework.

Feel free to pick all of this apart....add, subtract....it's just a start.

:kick::kick::kick:

[H2O Man]

64. If you were an objective person

viewing this from the outside, wouldn't it seem that a possibly glaring weakness is that there is no serious study of who Bin Laden is? And who he is not? And wouldn't that have to be a serious study? Not the shallow "there are several men playing Bin Laden in different tapes," which is the intellectual equal to the "Paul McCartney is dead and has been replaced" balony from the late 1960s?

In order to make a serious investigation, you have to examine all of the facts, and consider all of the possibilities. To take a conclusion and then research only for evidence that supports it is perhaps fun, but is not the best potential manner to investigate anything. The fact that Bin Laden has not been "researched" seems to indicate that a huge part of the investigation remains totally unexamined. Why? I would gently suggest that it is possible that people may have closed their minds to one villian, because they are focused on others.

No one -- NO ONE -- can begin to make a serious investigation of the events leading up to 9-11 without first making an objective and in-depth study into the background of Bin Laden. And to do that, you must have an objective understanding of the extreme branch of Islam .... just as to understand Bush and Ashcroft, one needs to understand the extreme branch of Christianity.

[loudsue]

68. I understand what you're saying here....

and most of the studies I've seen, in depth, about Osama have been here on DU, through the years. I have not read the book you referenced, or ANY book on him. I have, however, read quite a bit about the fundamentalist branch of Islam that Osama supports.

That was why I mentioned on my "brainstorm" post, that, even though it's become evident that Osama's group has been trying to procure WMD's, and has probably done so, I don't think the people (the neocon globalists) that were dealing with Kahn and his associates fully understood the (fundamentalist) culture that they were trying to "negotiate" with...at which point, I would guess, things started getting pretty nasty and out of hand.

Given what you've read about Osama, do you think this is a possibility? Do you think that's where things might have broken down between the parties....I mean, given the fact that the two sides have diametrically opposed views of global dominance?

Or am I just being way too simplistic about some of these points?
Or... do they matter much, in the larger scope of things?

:kick::kick:

[Pallas180]

70. At this point an in depth study of Usama or Fallwell is a side issue which

could take us off our immediate investigation.

The immediate investigation is the meaning of Sibel Edmonds'
words.

WHO, WHAT, and then back to WHY as it fits into the picture we already
have of the cover-up of treason with regard to the outing of the investigations of Valerie Plame.


IMHO there is no more need to understand Osama's psychoses and anger
at his father for having 52 sons, than there is to understand Falwell's bigotry.

IMHO At this point in time all that is necessary to understand is their alliances, enemies and goals and how it fits into the picture and events Sibel Edmonds refers to which resulted in 911.

Side issues can lead us to a maze of different avenues.

Now, who was it that said "Stay Focused on the prize."?

[H2O Man]

73. That would be the same person

who would advise you that a closed mind, like a closed room, runs the risk of becoming kind of stuffy. (smile)

[Pallas180]

77. <Grin> Friend H20, I guess we're enjoying each other's company in

a small closed stuffy room.

Okay, you throw in the side issues for depth of understanding of the characters and background...

then I'll herd us back to the road to Edmonds and the goal.

WHO, WHAT, WHY 9-11 ?

Keep your eye on the prize.

WHO was involved.

WHAT was involved.

WHY did it result in 9-11.

Either it will prove out or it won't

According to Sibel Edmonds (and Mueller and Ashcroft who don't want her to talk) it WILL prove out.

(so to speak in accounting language)

And then WE THE PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE can demand

ACCOUNTING!!!

[H2O Man]

71. Three things:

(1) If a person handed in a research paper, even in an introductory class in political science, that had to do with 9-11, but ignored any examination of Bin Laden, it would be given an "incomplete" grade by a generous teacher. A strict teacher would file it with those papers of people who just don't get it.

(2) You are correct in thinking that Bin Laden, who had unlimited access to money, and almost unlimited access to weapons in the late 1980s and early 1990s, probably has a few things from the old USSR that qualify by all definitions as WMDs.

(3) Understanding the extremist Islamic militants is vital for any discussion of 9-11, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and the United States. For one important example, it's important to understand various cultural interpretations of "time." The actions of the Islamic militants frequently seem odd by American standards. But they make perfect sense by Islamic standards.

It is possible to come to a greater understanding of the events that are being discussed, but not by clinging to old misconceptions. I'm not saying you, loudsue, but am speaking in general. The fact that at this late date, there has not been any serious examination of Bin Laden indicates a weakness in the study. I know a couple of my friends (and they are my friends, even if they are a little cranky at the moment) might get a little upset at me right now, but that's okay. Could you imagine if the Plame Threads did get attention on a higher level -- say Fox News -- and some anus like sean Hannity said, "But you haven't studied Bin Laden!" Gosh. Isn't it better to have Man X mention it than Sean Hannity?

[Pallas180]

81. H20, H20, H20

"even if they are a little cranky at the moment"

uh uh. na na na na. Very politically incorrect.

To paraphrase Theresa Heinz Kerry -

Why is it that a woman is called opinionated (or "cranky at the moment") and a man is called smart and knowledgeable" and directed and goal oriented ...............


H20 my friend, just because an Iron Butterfly shows a peek at
her strength, it should not be misconstrued as being cranky. (next you'll suggest I need a nap?)

IMHO We have gone as far as can be gone on Valerie Plame until the indictments come, if they come.

There have been infinitesmal reports and studies of Bin Laden many of which I have read, and as a matter of fact have written an article on. I have no interest in knowing more of his thumb sucking years.

One might better read of Islam's history and wars to understand their
goals and belief that it is Islam's time to return as the Supreme power and major religion of the world.

"And what rough beast,
its hour come round at last
slouches toward Bethlehem to be born"

Perhaps not everyone understands Islam's goal of return to glory, but
reading this thread, they now do.

Studying bin laden is not going to give us the answers to what Sibel Edmonds hints at.

She speaks of organized govt. criminality in this country which is interconnected to other countries, and the other countries have something to do with the languages Sibel speaks. IMHO that is the goal.

And we know Turkey has to be involved, because as a shot across her bow, (just as dimson did to Wilson) Turkey has issued an arrest warrant for her sister, in reprisal.

To be sure, bin laden is involved but he is not our starting point..

He may be the end point, but if we accept that immediately, we will not discover all the players and intricacies as we did in our research
of the outing of Plame.

I'm sure you understand my view friend. <smile>

[RebelYell]

86. Oh the irony.....

....Plame and Edmonds are female, and they are the threats to the Bush/Cheney crime cabal. Heh.

[H2O Man]

89. Cranky refers to both

male and female. I generally use it in reference to my children. But you, Pallas, have already taken offense when I did call you a member of the "older generation," so you can't say that I'm refering specifically to you .... although I won't argue with you if you say that you didn't get your usual amount of sleep because of the storm. (grin) And, of course, I know all about "Hurricanes" ..... even though most people -- my wife included -- tend to think of me as more of a "Sugarcane," ..... and I won't risk blowing that reputation by saying anything more that might make you grumpier than ..... I might be. (grin)

Now, you could be right about Sibel Edmonds .... without even considering all the possibilities ..... or it's possible, especially in consideration of her background, that it might be beneficial to consider the entire situation.

There's an old story about an elder going for a ride with a couple young whipper-snappers: the elder knew the directions, but the young folks were convinced they knew more than the elder. So, when they began to go off track, he started to tell them .... and one kind of snapped at the elder, because she thought she knew better. Then the elder had a choice: to either get in a quarrel with the youngster, or to keep kind of quiet, and wait until the young folks realized they had taken the wrong path,and then correct them. Now, that isn't a new story that I've just made up .... it's several generations old, and every Haudenosaunee knows it by heart. It may become clearer as you continue along. (grin)

[loudsue]

84. Exactamundo, Waterman!

And that's what I've been trying to tie in to my questions about what Sibel Edmonds said, AND the Plame gang's part, in what was being discovered/uncovered by them.

You wrote:
"(2) You are correct in thinking that Bin Laden, who had unlimited access to money, and almost unlimited access to weapons in the late 1980s and early 1990s, probably has a few things from the old USSR that qualify by all definitions as WMDs".

Since we had already discovered, in one of the other Plame threads, that we KNOW Al Qaeda had a close relationship with at least one of the nuclear scientists from Pakistan (can't remember his name, but he was an associate of Kahn), the guy who was fundamentally aligned with the Islamic fundamentalists, during a time when nuclear secrets, and COMPONENTS, were being sold like hot-cakes through the nuclear Wal-Mart, is it not safe to speculate (and I believe that thread stated there was EVIDENCE of this) that those secrets were passed on to these Islamic fundamentalists by the nuclear scientist sympathizer? And, since Osama is the kingpin of Islamic fundamentalists, isn't it safe to say that his organization could very easily HAVE most of what they need for a nuke? That's why I don't limit Osama's capability to what they might have acquired in the way of weapons to just what the U.S. gave him when we armed him against the Soviets in the 80's & 90's.

Since that time, billions of dollars of financing, from many fronts, have flowed into Al Qaeda coffers....hell! The Islamic churches/mosques in the U.S. were taking up collections! That's been on the news. So...he has continued to have huge money, and plenty of opportunity to secure weapons & components....even IF ONLY through the Pakistani nuclear scientists (though probably other associates/customers of Kahn's Wal-Mart, as well).

IF Valerie Plame was investigating Kahn's Nuclear Wal-Mart (which I'm going to assume she must have, at least, KNOWN about it -- or why else would Musharraf have to slap Kahn on the wrist recently, for the benefit of appearances), and

IF the PLAME grand jury has found their investigation bleeding over into the Pentagon (which they've already leaked), where Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, et al, are also tied into the Haliburton/ABB/Carlyle war machines, (again, already mentioned in these threads) and

IF Sibel Edmonds is talking about drugs/WMD trafficking/American business/ high government officials/ 9/11....

IF the bush administration is in bed with Pakistan (which bush has reported they are on "our side" in fighting terra), as Cheney was supporting Pakistan's drive to build a nuke (we've already established that connection on these threads, have we not? Cheney told Congress to lay off Pakistan, and not impose sanctions), since Cheney's company was benefiting from that....AND Cheney's staff obviously outed Plame....AND Poppy bush is the big honcho involved in CIA/bush crime family DRUG dealings world-wide....AND the fundamentalist sect of Islam that the Taliban and Osama subscribe to did NOT allow the growing of poppies for drug sales....(moral, religious beliefs)....

Well it seems to all come back in a circle! Pakistan is not the center of the universe or anything, but it seems to be where the paradox begins to fester, on both the Western/greed/nuclear Wal-Mart AND Islamic/religious ends of where the Plame, Edmonds, Cheney, Osama/"no poppies" Taliban, Nuclear Wal-Mart seem to converge.

That's why I was pursuing the idea that the Western/greed end of the equation possibly ran amok of the cultural/religious beliefs of their former buddies who helped take down the Soviets. I think Bush I/Reagan thought they had some "Ay-rab good-ole-boys" (buddies/sons of the bush oil buddies -- old family ties to Saudi royal family and the bin Ladens "businessmen") on their side, and did not take into account the cultural/religious chasm that separated their respective ultimate goals. (And, of course, shrub inherited his father's mindset on this.)

Without any other "links" or "references" than what we have here on 19 PLAME threads, and simply looking at what we KNOW of the mind-set of the bush cartel .....their past business & oil dealings with the Saudis (Saudis are relevant because Osama IS one) ruling family, AND the bin Laden family, I think the bush cartel ignorantly ignored the religious differences, and just enjoyed their good-ole-boy business relationships and $$ making.

The opium poppy trade, as I said before, goes deep in the Bush/Walker/Harriman etc. tribe....waaay back. The plans to hit Afghanistan (carpet of gold, carpet of bombs), I believe, was a time when the bush cartel wanted the Taliban to let the poppies and oil flow once again. But Osama was WITH the Taliban on the religious end of not allowing the poppies. I don't really think it was Osama's family that "disowned" him, as was reported in our press. I think it was the bush cartel that declared Osama a loose canon, and outside of his family's philosophy. I'd bet dollars to donuts Osama's family never disowned their prodigal son.

In other words, I'm thinking that the bush cabal totally called it wrong for quite a while after Osama/Taliban helped oust the Soviets from Afghanistan. And the totally non-religious, money/power centered bushes just expected the Taliban to establish order/government in Afghanistan, and then start "playing ball" on the oil and poppy thing. My guess is, this is behind what totally pissed off Osama & the Taliban.....hence the 1st WTC bombing attempt.

Even though Clinton was in office when the Taliban/Osama began their serious terrorist efforts in the U.S., I still think it was the larger Haliburton, Enron, Carlyle operations that were the catalyst for what was the root of the ideological war that had been going on for a couple of decades with other Muslim groups, and the Taliban/Al Qaeda then (in the late 80's & 90's) fully signed on with.

The reason I say this is because of the earlier terrorist attacks, by other groups of Muslims, prior to the U.S. training Al Qaeda/Taliban. Osama was still young then, and still part of his father's construction empire. But I think he felt more strongly in his support of Islam, and those beliefs grew as he grew up. (In fact, I've read about that on several occasions on threads on DU in the past, but I had never thought about how that tied in with Afghanistan/9-11.)

That's where, I believe, the cultural/moral beliefs of a group like Al Qaeda and the bush family are so EXTREMELY different. The bushes think money can buy anything or anybody! Muslim extremists don't.

This theory would at least answer "WHY" do we see both complicity and war going on, among families, people, global corporations and governments who apparently have all kinds of ties to one another. The historical relationships and events that are KNOWN, that I've mentioned, I think are an important part of the puzzle of what Plame and Edmonds were seeing.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Pallas180]

90. LOUDSUE -

you've lost me.

primarily because you've made a lot of statements, theories, which
I have no knowledge of and you have not backed up with any links to
history.


1) "You are correct in thinking that Bin Laden, who had unlimited access to money, and almost unlimited access to weapons in the late 1980s and early 1990s, probably has a few things from the old USSR that qualify by all definitions as WMDs".
* ****
There have been reports which contradict this, and say he only inherited $300 million.
__________

2) Where is your link, (and by link I mean URL-internet address) to the fact that Osama did not allow poppy crops and did not use such crops to enrich his coffers for his Jihad?( I believe I had read the
opposite)

Where is your link to the Taliban did not allow poppy crops ?

If you don't provide those links/URL addresses, you are not providing
the fact to prove it to anyone else, and therefore your theory that
they were not growing poppy, and this was the reason for the attack on
Afghanistan cannot hold credibility for anyone readin your theory.
Link please?

You are correct that the Taliban was standing in the way of an oil pipeline through Afghanistan. Like most middle eastern peoples, in negotiations with Westerners, they don't know when to stop negotiating and demanding.

BUT you should still provide the link so everyone else reading can know and understand it.

3) Where is your link to the "The opium poppy trade goes deep (way back) in the Bush/Walker/Harriman tribe". I believe you said the 1800's. Can you provide a link to a source, published article or book affirming this history?

4) "The plans to hit Afghanistan (carpet of gold, carpet of bombs), I believe, was a time when the bush cartel wanted the Taliban to let the poppies and oil flow once again. But Osama was WITH the Taliban on the religious end of not allowing the poppies.Are you sure that poppies were not being grown in Afghanistan"

*Sue, the link that would show that after the Taliban came into power
heroin was no longer a product of Afghanistan, please.

5) "earlier terrorist attacks, by other groups of Muslims"
*Sue, what attacks, where?, what other groups -

6) You do bring up a good subject. The first WTC bombing attempt and
the reason for it in 93 would be of interest. That leads us to the
blind Sheik and his son Ramse Joseph and their connections -

Sorry, to be tough on you Sue, you've written a great story line, but
with no back up to show that it could even have a hint of reality.

WHY is not the question now. That is the end question that might be answered after we know WHO and WHAT Sibel Edmonds referred to.

[H2O Man]

99. I think I wrote #1

about Bin Laden's money. What a wonderful example of something we could potentially learn from, were we to study Bin Laden.

How did the Bin Laden family come to have so much wealth that one of dozens of children gets $300 million when dad dies? Bet they're involved in some type of business! Maybe more than one! Because $300 million is a pretty good chunk of change .... at least for most of us.

Now, there's an old saying: It takes money to make money! Thus, it is possible -- perhaps likely -- that Bin Laden & friends were able to make more money with his $300 million.

Some have said he spent it all .... which is possible .... although the truth is more likely that he made it disappear where it cannot be easily traced. Our choices are either that he is an idiot, or that he is very smart. Hmmmmm ......

We also know that there are those who contribute to the cause of the Bin Laden's of the world. Fact is, President Reagan made sure that, in hard to trace ways, Mr. Bin Laden-types got lots of contributions to fight those Russians in Afghanistan. (Note: this was before they became evil enemies. They used to be good. Just like Saddam, etc.)

Usama Bin Laden is very real, and very dangerous. It would have been much better if the invasion of Afghanistan was conducted in such a way that there was a positive conclusion to Mr. Bin Laden's existence on earth.

[Pallas180]

103. It appears that there was never a real attempt to

dispose of him.

When he was cornered in Tora Bora, the US turned it over to the Pakistani ISI to complete the job.

If we on DU know the ISI is the mother of the Taleban and to some degree the protector of Al Queda, certainly the CIA knew it and the US govt and Pentagon knew - and knew ISI would not harm both its benefactor and invention.

There has never been any real intention to put an end to him.

He obviously then, we might conclude, has some very big protection
out there.

At this point if the US were to harm him, he would become as famous
in martyrdom as Martin Luther King is in America....only OBL's would
be world wide.

While he is viewed as the most evil man in the world in the West, thousands and thousands of children have been named Usama after him.

Nope. Too late.

[H2O Man]

106. It's worse than letting him go .....

and I realize that you are likely to say, "damn it, H2O Man -- what MORE proof do you need????" (and you may) ..... but, at some level within the Defense Department, when UBL was in Tora Bora .... our side did not allow our military, with the most intense special forces which were fully capable of killing him .... the decision was made to pull back, and send "locals" in .... and they were nothing if not guides to bring UBL to safety.

Did that genius of military history Donald Rumsfeld do this to insure UBL's survival? Or was he afraid of the high number of American casualties (and it would likely have been high) and was he really so fucking stupid that he thought the locals would kill UBL for $$$?

Years ago, during the Reagan era, a friend named Dennis Banks from AIM was on the underground, because Gov. Janklow (the drunk-driving killer) wanted to kill Dennis. He had been in California, but when there was an administration change there, he had to leave. Dennis was given sancuary at Onondaga. The federal forces surrounded the teritory, and there was plenty of $$$ to made made by turning Dennis in. But no one would. Even those who found him as obnoxious as some of you find me wouldn't. (grin) Bin Laden is in the same boat, really, except he has unlimited money ..... and so he's been harder to find than Dennis Banks was.

[Pallas180]

111. That's what I'm saying.

Our troops were pulled back.

ISI was told to go in - knowing they would not harm UBL.

And as far as junior is concerned he hasn't mentioned his name
in three years. Osama bin forgotten - on purpose.

Which leads any civilized thinking person to surmise:

both MIHOP and LIHOP are intertwined. the deal was made.

There's something else.. I don;'t remember whether it was neo-con
Boucher or Bolton it was one of those neo-con lower level types -
attended a "think tank meeting" of middle eastern types somewhere
"offshore" the summer of 2001. I remember reading about it after
9-11.

Boucher or Bolton or Armitage ( I dont think it was Armitage, but he
is a neo-con too,) made threats toward ???? daring the representative
of bin laden I guess, perhpas it was an ISI rep, to attack.

The article said it was as if it was a rush to see who would attack
first, dimson or bin laden, and the US rep was goading the other rep.

Now that was an important meeting ---but I dont remember where I read
it...online for sure.

[shraby]

109. I put a link to the story

about the Taliban disallowing poppies on the last thread. I think when RP comes back, he's going to put that stuff together.

It was in an article about the Northern Alliance and its leader Massood. I thought maybe I could come up with something by googling him because he was assassinated just before we attacked Afghanistan.

[Pallas180]

113. Massood knew there was going to be an attack and was about

to warn the west.

OBL sent two "reporters" to interview him...and their cameras
were either bombs or guns...

I'm interested in when the poppies stopped being grown if they were,.

Was it just that Aghanis would not be allowed to use poppy but could
grow it for sale or was it that it couldn't be grown at all?

I'll do some googling when I come back....

[Pallas180]

69. LOUDSUE wow. That's quite a THEORY - but, but ,but

here's the rules:

In the same way we found the answers to Plame on the internet through googling and finding published responsbile sources, we should be able to find answers and secrets involving Edmonds' "forbidden information.

Your theory seems to hit very possible mind boggling points..and I need time to digest it ----

but, but, but where are your "url" links to the parts that are
known published facts?

you don't want us to sound like wild eyed conspiracy theorists who wear antenna hats and believe in UFO's as H20 suggested this exercize would make us appear, now do you?

Listen girlfriend...you put in those links to the known info or we'll look pretty wild-eyed.

Better to look google-eyed....

hee hee hee - my little joke.

:toast:

[PfcHammer]

57. Plame FC update

http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/Plame/PlameFlowchart.htm

I've added a few of the links and did some rearranging.

[Pallas180]

59. Hey KleverKit - good morning to you! - I see

you've been working that crossword puzzle :)

Getting there...getting there.....

I just had an idea...maybe if I download it to Msft Word..I can
help?

:shrug:

[PfcHammer]

63. Back at you Pallas.

I know Word has a drawing program in it. If you save the
image as GIF from your browser, you might be able to work
on it inside Word with its drawing tools. Not sure though.

[alfredo]

65. I am going to look into

:kick: this

[RebelYell]

66. Dupe, sorry

[RebelYell]

67. Judge in Sibel Edmonds case has ties to Bush administration

~~~~~~~~

"...William Bennett called Judge Walton and, much to Walton’s surprise, offered him the number two spot in the Drug Czar’s office. Walton spent the next two years traveling over a half-million miles, spreading the Bush Administration’s anti-drug message across the country. When Florida Governor Bob Martinez took over as Drug Czar in 1991, Walton was made the Senior White House Advisor on Crime to President Bush and was then reappointed by Bush to the D.C. Superior Court."

~~~~~~~~

More here:
http://www.justicepolicy.org/article.php?id=319

Judge Walton's bio paints him as an upstanding guy that worked his way up. However, his ties to the Bush administration are glaringly obvious to me.

Edit to correct

[Pallas180]

72. REB - good find - you mean Bill Benett the

slot machine addict?

BWAAAAAAHHAAHAAHA - if you could only hear my evil laugh as I post
that.

Lightbulb from what you wrote.

I now understand, it occurs to me...Pappy from the beginning did very smoothly what we have caught on to from Junior's clumsiness.

They both announce "we're going to have a drug war" (brak-they meant it, but not the way we understood it) to stop drugs in this country"
and then proceed to do the opposite.

"we're going to leave no child behind" and then do the opposite"

"we're going to fund firemen and cops" and then do the opposite."

Shame on me - fool me once, shame on me , fool me er uh er uh

[RebelYell]

74. Yes - William Bennett the gambling addict n/t

[Pallas180]

75. Why peddle drugs? Drugs are Big Money & Big Money

(unreported, not taxed like oil businesses) is BIG POWER.

And with BIG POWER you can have a network of shadow governments in each country (little unprincipled people who also want big money and big power in their own fish pond and can be bought).

Shadow governments who have no state, who operate within that state
but belong to a different state. )007's "Chaos" and "Smash". You have to wonder if that isn't where these bastids got some of their ideas .

You have these little moles in all the governments all over the world until you decide to come out and announce YOU ARE THE WORLD GOVT., there will be no more voting, you have appointed Junior look alikes as the dictator of each country.

hmmmmm?

[RebelYell]

79. Not only illegal drugs

don't forget Rx drugs too. Poppy/Eli Lilly/Ken Lay/Zyprexa/Prozac

[Pallas180]

85. Do you realize their announced plan

of testing mental health ov every child (or is it citizen)
will result in the prescrition druggin of all Americans...prozacking
so that they can barely wipe the spittle from their mouths?

[RebelYell]

87. They would have to tie me down

to take any drug made in the past 20 years. When I need an antibiotic, I always ask for the older drugs, that have proven safety. I will never willingly take drugs advertised in the media.

[H2O Man]

222. If you look closely at

these claims, you will see they are stretching the truth. Public schools will continue to be funded to provide services already mandated. That's it.

Are far too many children mis-diagnosed and over-medicated? Yes. But that is not a bush/cheney plot.

In order to deal with the serious issues involved, society needs to first know exactly what the issues are. But the administration -- as evil and vile as it is -- has not made secret plans to line citizens up in a One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest style society.

The truth is that far too many adults already willing take medications for the wrong reasons. Heck, adults DEMAND the medications. There is no plan to use "force."

People are so out of touch with their human nature that they opt to abuse medication -- and themselves -- rather than fight and struggle to change the circumstances that make them miserable.

[Pallas180]

76. I think Martinez is running for Fla. Senator now -

they're all over the place.

What we need in every city is Kuciniches running for offices all over
the United States in opposition to them.

And tv advertising for campaigns has to be free...otherwise honest
poor people will never be able to compete

[RebelYell]

78. Bennett, PNAC, Neil Bush

~~~~~~~~

Bennett was a front man for the phony War on Drugs which has been an abject failure -- except in pumping up the privatized prison stocks and creating a ready made slave labor pool for prison industry. He was in Reagan's cabinet when the perpetrators of the Iran Contra affair were selling cocaine to our communities and later became the elder George Bush's drug czar.

Bennett was outraged by Clinton's behavior in the White House but was one of Reagan's staunchest defenders during the Iran-contra affair.

A few years back, Bennett used dubious statistics to claim that gay men had a much lower life expectancy than straight men. In a 1997 Weekly Standard (owned PNAC chairman William Kristol) screed, Bennett wrote–in a piece that was embarrassing even for that conservative publication–that "The best available research suggests that the average life span of male homosexuals is around 43 years of age. Forty-three."

Bill wrote in his book "The Educated Child" that there was "no good evidence that most uses of computers significantly improve learning,". Years later announced on December 27th that he is founding a for profit online school called K12. The company is backed by $10 million in seed money from Michael Milken's company Knowledge Universe. Remember Milken? He was the junk bond king at the center of the Florida Savings and Loan scandal with Neil Bush.

Co-director of Empower America, distinguished fellow at the Heritage Foundation and speech writer for George Dubya Bush.

http://oldamericancentury.org/william_bennett.htm

[shraby]

80. Another aspect we've overlooked

are the wives of the main culprits. What companies and organizations are they involved in and are on the boards of. Lynne Cheney is AEI for instance.

Also in an earlier thread, I found info that suggested that Musharraf is CIA. The connection came around 1985, long before Musharraf became head of Pakistan.

[Pallas180]

83. Shraby - don't forget maiden names like

Pierce

[Pallas180]

82. REB - VOILA! Bennet, drugs, and PNAC connection and

"Bennett was a front man for the phony War on Drugs "

great find.

another player - but he's been sidelined and outed by someone who was working on our side, we just didn't know it.

____

"slave labor pool for prison industry"

security and prisons built by pappy's good friend Wackenhut

______________

Milken is a surprise, but Neil Bush has affected the education of
every child in Florida. He has the contract for a test which must be
passed by every child in Florida. It is said to be limiting the education of these children because in order to pass the test, usual
studies must be ignored, and subjects and answers to pass these tests
can only be addressed.

It occurs to me that this is the dimson family's version of the Madrassas.

[RebelYell]

88. Excellent analogy

It compares to teaching fear and hatred of the Commies. Funny, we haven't demonized China, huh?

[Pallas180]

91. REB - funny you mentioned China here.Calling ROBERTPAULSEN

It's been on my mind.

China and opium

Pappy giving the W 88 to China

What did Sibel say - people trade information for things they want...

supposedly China assisted Iran Contra by shipping arms ?????

And another thing has been rummaging around in my dainty opinionated
brain <grin>

The Viet Nam war...it really wasn't publicly known in America during,
but Americans were fighting Chinese - the Chinese were behind the Viet
Cong....and up to that time drugs were not a major problem in this country.

In the 50's, was it? a famous drummer, Gene Krupa, was caught smoking marijuana...and it finished his career...if a kid smoked a regular cigarette behind the barn in the early 60"s he got walloped.

But the boys came home from Viet Nam with the hard stuff. And America
was enveloped in drugs - heroin I think mostly...and marijuana...and
then cocaine and crack.

China. And Opium crops. And Iran Contra and the W 88.

Where do they fit in this?

hmmmm

[shraby]

93. Since Eisenhower's administration

was comparatively clean, Kennedy's had been infiltrated and most of the infiltrators of the Kennedy people are still alive, maybe it would do us good to examine his people, and the following admins. and see who stayed, who dropped, and where they are. Most of what has gone wrong in American and the world started with Kennedy's death. I think he still held a lid on them, and when he was assassinated, the lid came off and the demons were loosed.

[Pallas180]

95. Kissinger - look up Kissinger's bio again - and Nelson Rockefeller

Nelson was doing things in government from the late 40's -
Kissinger got into government through Nelson Rockefeller.
Nelson and David(founding member of Bilderberg also) big proponents of One World Government.

The OSS/ CIA was already infiltrated with the Nazis and those ideas
they brought over just after WW 2.

So Ike's regime wasn't clean - their foothold was in -- and then
there were the Dulles brothers...weren't they Ike's people...and
Ike knew it was being done under his nose...thus the famous warning.

When the idea of the One World Government was presented to Kennedy -
and he went ballistic - you know the rest of the story.

In the 50's there were hearings about One World Government...I put
in some quotes several threads back...

I could find it again. Warburg (although they spelled the name wrong
as Walburg...."Whether you like it or not there is going to be a
one world government " Warburg of the banking Warburgs Rothschilds
Rockefellers, etc etc

[RebelYell]

97. Comprehensive article on BFEE et al

Here's a few tidbits - long article, but a must read, well sourced.

~~~~~~~~

George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, was the Managing Director of the investment bank Brown Brothers, Harriman from the 1920s through the 1940s. It was Brown Brothers, in conjunction with Averell Harriman, the Rockefeller family, Standard Oil, the DuPonts, the Morgans and the Fords who served as the principal funding arm in helping to finance Adolph Hitler's rise to power starting in 1923.

~~~~~~~~

The warnings about the Carlyle Group, the nation's 11th largest defense contractor, and the Bushes came long before the World Trade Center attacks. The Carlyle Group is a closely held corporation, exempt, for that reason, from reporting its affairs to the Securities and Exchange Commission. Little is known of what it actually does except that it buys and sells defense contractors. As of October 4, 2001, it has removed its corporate web site from the World Wide Web making further investigation through that channel impossible. Its Directors include Frank Carlucci, former Reagan Secretary of Defense; James Baker, former Bush Secretary of State; and Richard Darman, a former White House aide to Ronald Reagan and Republican Party operative.

~~~~~~~~

The Nation, on March 27, 2000 - in a story co-authored by David Corn and Paul Lashmar - wrote, "In January former President George Bush and former British Prime Minister John Major paid a social call on Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Abdullah" This story confirms at least one meeting between the elder Bush and Saudi leaders, including the bin Ladens. That the bin Ladens attended this meeting was confirmed in a subsequent September 27, 2001 Wall Street Journal (WSJ) story. The January 2000 meeting with the bin Ladens was also later confirmed by Bush (the elder's) Chief of Staff Jean Becker, only after the WSJ presented her with a thank you note sent by Bush to the bin Ladens after that meeting.

~~~~~~~~

The WSJ story went on to note, "A Carlyle executive said that the bin Laden family committed $2 million through a London investment arm in 1995 in Carlyle Partners II Fund, which raised $1.3 billion overall. The fund has purchased several aerospace companies among 29 deals. So far, the family has received $1.3 million back in completed investments and should ultimately realize a 40% annualized rate of return, the Carlyle executive said.

"But a foreign financier with ties to the bin Laden family says the family's overall investment with Carlyle is considerably larger"

In other words, Osama bin Laden's attacks on the WTC and Pentagon, with the resulting massive increase in the U.S. defense budget have just made his family a great big pile of money.

~~~~~~~~

Considering that during the 1980s, under the pretext of fighting a Sandinista regime in Nicaragua that never once launched an attack on the U.S., these same people oversaw an explosion in U.S. cocaine consumption that went from 80 metric tons in 1979 to 600 metric tons in 1989 - considering that the CIA trained and equipped death squads that tortured and murdered hundreds of thousands of people from Guatemala to Panama - considering that these same people have brutalized Iraq, leaving portions of it radioactively contaminated by depleted uranium for the next 4 billion years and causing a fivefold increase in the number of childhood leukemia cases amidst a starving population, one can only wonder what they will produce for the world now given the context of the World Trade Center attacks.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/carlyle.html

[Pallas180]

110. REB now isn't this interesting....and timely :

Carlyle: "As of October 4, 2001, it has removed its corporate web site from the World Wide Web "

[tishaLA]

92. INFO REQUEST please

can someone tell me about the 70 compromised contacts? I have seen the figure on the Project of the Old American Century site, but I don't know of other details about it. Can someone tell me other places to look? Thanks.

[shraby]

94. What 70 compromised contacts

are you talking about?

[H2O Man]

96. "compromised" = dead

I do not believe that thereis any site that gives more than a general idea of how exposing Plame has led to the death and disappearance of numerous people in various global "hot spots." As far as exactly who these people are/were, this rule applies: Those who know, don't say; and those who say, don't know.

It is safe to say that several of these were agents with deep cover (ie- often decades in the making) in business positions in the Middle East and parts of Asia. Keep in mind that the old concept that the folks in embassies (or in the medias) are CI operatives is not accurate: they are resources, who do a related but distinct level of work. They may be asked to travel to foreign countries to investigate sales of various things, but not be able to speak openly about it.

But Plame was an operative. Deepest level of cover that CI has. Thus, the "company" she worked for was exposed, and everyone she had business dealings with is exposed. That is far more than 70, of course.

Think if there was a man of about 55, who was active in the late 1980s in Pakistan, but who during the Clinton years was moved to Saudi Arabia. Suppose he knew about the sale of WMD components to those who are now the "terrorists," but who had once been almost on our side, because they fought the USSR in Afghanistan, and participated in operations in some of the little countries that once made up the south-eastern edge of the Soviet Union. That 55-year old would never turn 56.

[Pallas180]

98. There was a recent article

that the CIA had added a star to their "inhouse" memorial representing an agent killed in action - since the exposure of
Plame and her compnay.

[H2O Man]

100. that's true .....

although CI certainly didn't make any public connection between that star and the Plame exposure. But other people have made a connection.

[Pallas180]

101. Tish LA - do you have a link to this "Old American Century"

with 70 "compromised contacts"

We'd like to look at that too

and Welcome.

Thanks

[RebelYell]

102. The link to the site is in my post #78 n/t

[tishaLA]

112. Sure. Sorry for the delay

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/valerie_plame.htm

there's the link and it says "Senior administration officials illegally leak to the press Mr. Wilson's wife, by name, as a covert C.I.A. operative. Thus, jeopardizing her life and causing the "liquidation" of 70 overseas assets. The POAC takes a look at the timeline of events and those accused:" <etc.>

I'm certain I've seen that figure elsewhere, though, and I can't find it. I thought this might be the place to look.

[RebelYell]

104. Perle, Feith & Turkey connection

I'll research Trireme & IAI when I have time. Khashoggi is an arms dealer going back to Iran Contra.

~~~~~~~~

"Perle resigned on March 27, 2003 as chairman of the Defense Policy Board after disclosures that his business dealings included a meeting with two Saudis, one an arms dealer, and a contract for $750,000 to advise telecommunications firm Global Crossings Ltd. that was seeking Defense Department permission to be sold to Chinese investors.

In a New Yorker article, Seymour Hersch reported that Perle faced conflict of interest between his work on the board and his private business dealings. He reported that Perle is “a managing partner in a venture-capital company called Trireme Partners L.P.” He also reported that Perle attended a luncheon meeting on January 3, 2004 with two Saudis, Adnan Khashoggi and industrialist Harle Zuhair, who told Hersch that the agenda included an item “to pave the way for Zuhair to put together a group of ten Saudi businessmen who would invest ten million dollars each in Trireme.” (New Yorker, March 17, 2003, pages 76-81.)

Perle resigned as Assistant Secretary of Defense in 1987, before the end of the Cold War, and went to Turkey and negotiated an $800,000 contract for International Advisors Inc. (IAI), a company which he initiated. He recruited Douglas Feith, his special assistant at Defense, to head IAI.

Perle became a consultant to IAI and received $48,000 annually from 1989 to 1994. IAI registered as a foreign agent with the Justice Department. IAI received $800,000 from Turkey in 1989 and then received $600,000 annually from 1990 to 1994."

~~~~~~~~

http://www.hellenicnews.com/readnews.html?newsid=2134&lang=US

[shraby]

105. International Advisors Inc.

apparently have been taken off the net too. They don't google.

I googled Perle + International Advisors Inc. and got the article above. I'll add this:

Paul Wolfowitz

Wolfowitz has committed major mistakes of policy and judgment
regarding Turkey to the serious detriment of
U.S. interests. Wolfowitz's remarks on Turkey have contained false and
misleading statements with serious errors of fact and omission of
Orwellian proportions.

On July 14, 2002, Wolfowitz in a CNN Turkey interview stated:

`I think a real test of whether a country is a democracy is how it
treats its minorities. And actually it's one of the things that
impress (sic) me about Turkish history-the way Turkey treats its own
minorities.'

(snip)

Also on July 14, 2002, in a speech at the Conrad Hotel, Istanbul,
Wolfowitz referred to Turkey:

`as a staunch NATO ally through forty years of Cold Warâ=80¦.Itis the
great good fortune of the United States, of NATO, the West, indeed the
world, that occupying this most important crossroads we have one of
our strongest, most reliable and most self-reliant allies.'

This is another false and misleading statement by Wolfowitz with
serious errors of fact and omission. The record shows that during the
Cold War, Turkey brushed aside U.S. interests on many occasions and
deliberately gave substantial assistance to the Soviet military. See
Exhibit 2 of the September 4, 2002 letter which sets forth examples of
Turkey's unreliability as an ally and refutes the assertion of Turkey
as a self-reliant ally. Turkey's vote on March 1, 2003 refusing to
allow U.S. troops to use bases in Turkey to open a second front
against the Saddam Hussein dictatorship is a dramatic example of
Turkey's unreliability as an ally. Wolfowitz's effusive comments in
his July 14, 2002 speech regarding Ataturk may play well in Turkey,
but the rest of the world is familiar with Ataturkas a brutal dictator
and mass killer of Armenians, Greeks and Kurds. John Gunther in his
book, Inside Europe refers in his opening sentence to Ataturk as
â=80=9CThe blond, blue-eyed combination of patriot and psychopath who
is dictator of Turkey.' (1938 edition p. 378.) See Exhibit 3 of the
September 4, 2002 letter for the details of Ataturk's mass killings of
Armenians, Greeks and Kurds. Ataturk and Turkey are hardly the models,
as suggested by Wolfowitz, for Afghanistan and other Muslim nations to
follow to achieve democracy.

(more)
<http://www.armeniandiaspora.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-7147.html>

[shraby]

108. More on Feith

Feith currently serves as the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, the third ranking civilian position at the Pentagon. Formerly, he served on the White House National Security staff during Ronald Reagan's first term in office. Richard Allen was Feith's boss at that time. During Reagan's second term in office, Feith was part of Richard Perle's Pentagon team.

It is related that in 1989, Feith registered International Advisors, Inc. (IAI) as a foreign agent that would represent the government of Turkey. Official documents state that one purpose of IAI's work would be to "promote the objective of U.S.-Turkey defense industrial cooperation." The IAI was described in both the United States and Turkey as the brainchild of Richard N. Perle.

However, one report states that official documents filed with the U.S. Department of Justice, Criminal Division, Foreign Agents Registration Unit, show Douglas Feith as not only the CEO of IAI but also its only stockholder. Moreover, reports filed by IAI seminannually during 1989-1994 show Perle as the single highest paid consultant to the group ($48,000 per year). Feith earned $60,000 per year and his law firm, Feith and Zell, was the recipient from IAI of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

In 1992, Feith joined with Perle and other neo-cons opposing President George H.W. Bush's stern policy on Israel in forming the Committee on U.S. Interests in the Middle East.

Feith and Perle reportedly teamed up once again as consultants for Bosnia. They both worked for and advised the Bosnians during the Dayton peace talks. They were not, however, registered then as foreign agents with the Deparment of Justice.

<http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Douglas_Feith>

[Pallas180]

114. Seems to me

that Perle, Feith, and Wolfowitz have done a lot of foreign "agent"
representation:

Bosnia
Turkey
Israel

where else have they been peddling influence?

and that doesn't take into account some of the other neo-con buddies.

[RebelYell]

118. I hit a brick wall with IAI

Kissinger is involved with Trireme:

Trireme Partners LP

Trireme Partners LP is a limited partnership venture capital company that invests in technology, goods, and services related to homeland security and defense.

Company chairman is Richard N. Perle while Henry Kissinger is a member of its advisory board. Trireme Partners LP was registered in Delaware in November 2001, two months after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Boeing is one of the investors in Trireme.<1>

The name "Trireme" is taken from a Greek warship with three banks of rowers.

Trireme also has Hollinger's Conrad Black on the board of directors, and was set up by Perle's Defense Policy Board pal Gerald Hillman (CDT, Cambridge Display Technologies), which Hollinger also invested highly in. <2>

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Trireme_Partners_LP

Further down in the article - Perle calls Sy Hersh a terrorist!

I'm stumped on what Sibel Edmonds found out about Turkey.

[Zan_of_Texas]

126. when something "doesn't google" -- remember this --

Some folks have "googled" breaking news that they KNEW was breaking. It was something relatively critical to the Bushies. The stuff may appear right away, but over the next few hours and a day, it disappeared off Google.

It was as if.....the googling process doesn't happen randomly.

Anyway, if something is important, it might be worth checking another search engine.

[Wind Dancer]

107. Another Sy Hersh article

I read the other day with some new names I don't remember hearing before. Don't know if it will help but will post anyway, I am in and out so will check in later. It has a lot of info re: Plame and WMDs.


http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact

-snip-

In a speech on November 14, 2001, as the Taliban were being routed in Afghanistan, Richard Perle, a Pentagon consultant with long-standing ties to Wolfowitz, Feith, and Chalabi, articulated what would become the Bush Administration’s most compelling argument for going to war with Iraq: the possibility that, with enough time, Saddam Hussein would be capable of attacking the United States with a nuclear weapon. Perle cited testimony from Dr. Khidhir Hamza, an Iraqi defector, who declared that Saddam Hussein, in response to the 1981 Israeli bombing of the Osiraq nuclear reactor, near Baghdad, had ordered future nuclear facilities to be dispersed at four hundred sites across the nation. “Every day,” Perle said, these sites “turn out a little bit of nuclear materials.” He told his audience, “Do we wait for Saddam and hope for the best, do we wait and hope he doesn’t do what we know he is capable of . . . or do we take some preemptive action?”

-snip-

The defectors, however, had an audience prepared to believe the worst. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had long complained about the limits of American intelligence. In the late nineteen-nineties, for example, he had chaired a commission on ballistic-missile programs that criticized the unwillingness of intelligence analysts “to make estimates that extended beyond the hard evidence they had in hand.” After he became Secretary of Defense, a separate intelligence unit was set up in the Pentagon’s policy office, under the control of William Luti, a senior aide to Feith. This office, which circumvented the usual procedures of vetting and transparency, stovepiped many of its findings to the highest-ranking officials.

more

[shraby]

115. There is a lot of info on Perle and friends

on this site, google away.

<http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-conservatism/perle.html>

[Pallas180]

117. Scraby - Its nice to know the SEC is doing its job --

like Elliot Ness said, if you can't get em one way, get em
on income taxes.....Black, Perle along with Henry Kissinger in that too.

ho-hum - too bad , too bad.

Thanks for the link

[Pallas180]

116. Carlyle founders and associates - web site

... David M. Rubenstein, Carlyle co-founder and managing director, said, “On behalf of my co-founders (william E. Conway, Jr.) Bill Conway and Dan D'Aniello

could use some googling - where did they come from ? ( I dont mean
geographically.)

Here is the latest Carlyle web site - notice that pappy's name appears
nowhere

http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/team/l4-team2027.htmlere:

lots of names when clicked on give little bio - could be of interest.

Conway runs Nextel (which Carlyle owns a major interest in) and surpirse, surprise United Defense Industries...

Mr. D'Aniello is on the Board of Directors of Duratek, Inc. and Gemini Air Cargo, Inc.

these are names that deserve googling...as I remember Duratek has to do with disposing of dangerous substances, has govt. contracts.. ah yes, here it is :Duratek Radioactive Material Management
Duratek offers technologies, services, and experience to safely and cost-effectively address tough issues in environmental remediation and radioactive ...
Isn't that handy?

GEmini Air Cargo - I wonder what they ship?
March 18, 2004
# 2004-17pc (issued by portfolio company)
Gemini Air Cargo Names Sam Woodward Chairman, President and CEO
Dulles, VA – Gemini Air Cargo, Inc., a worldwide all-cargo airline headquartered in Dulles, VA, today announced that Sam A. Woodward has been named Chairman, President, and CEO. Mr. Woodward, who succeeds Tom Corcoran, brings more than 25 years of experience in the transportation and logistics industries to the position. Mr. Woodward begins his new duties immediately. Mr. Corcoran will serve on the Gemini Board of Directors and as a Senior Advisor to The Carlyle Group, which purchased Gemini in August 1999.

AND they're kind enough to list associates alphabetically,, like

Leslie L. Armitage,Managing Director,Washington, DC

Is that the wife or the daughter?
____
and :Senior Advisors Richard G. Darman

Arthur Levitt

Thomas F. "Mack" McLarty

Funny they don;t list some of the famous names we know are with Carlyle, like Former PM John Major, former PM of Japan, etc etc

but how could we forget Carlucci (I'd google Carlucci + Pappy

Frank C. Carlucci
Chairman Emeritus
Washington, DC






Mr. Carlucci has been a Managing Director of Carlyle since 1989, Chairman since 1993 and Chairman Emeritus since January 2003. Mr. Carlucci was Secretary of Defense from November 1987 through January 1989, following his service as Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs under President Reagan. Before serving in these positions, Mr. Carlucci was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Sears World Trade, a business he joined in 1983. Mr. Carlucci preceded his affiliation with Sears World Trade, Inc. with a career in government service, which included Deputy Secretary of Defense (1980-82), Deputy Director of Central Intelligence (1978-80), Ambassador to Portugal (1975-78), Under Secretary of Health Education and Welfare (1973-75), Deputy Director of Office of Management & Budget (1970-72), and Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity (1969). Mr. Carlucci was a Foreign Service Officer from 1956 to 1980 and he served as an officer in the U.S. Navy from 1952 to 1954.

Mr. Carlucci is Chairman Emeritus of Nortel Networks and the U.S.-Taiwan Business Council and the Chairman of the Neurogen Corporation Board of Directors. Additionally, Mr. Carlucci serves as a member on the following corporate boards: SunResorts, Ltd., N.V.; Encysive Pharmaceuticals Inc. (formerly Texas Biotechnology Corporation); and United Defense L.P.

and of course James Baker 111 is Senior advisor...

[shraby]

128. Man, these guys must just go

from board room meeting to board room meeting. They have a network beyond belief. When they aren't in a board room, they are at think tanks talking to the ones sitting in the white house making policy if it's not their turn to be in the white house in some official capacity. There needs to be a law that says once they've served their terms, they can't come back into politics ever again.

[Pallas180]

119. Okay, Let's focus again: Sibel Edmonds

Whether you are solving a question or writing a story, the questions
you ask are: Who, What, When, Where, Why.

The Why of Plame has brought us also to Sibel Edmonds.

In the same way we found the answers to Plame on the internet through googling and finding published responsbile sources, we should be able to find answers and secrets involving Edmonds' "forbidden information.

Except - in the Edmonds matter we know Why - we are searching for Who?, What?, and Where?

Our clues to what she may have discovered (which caused her to be fired and threatened not to talk to the media or any senators and prompted FBI Director Mueller to have DOJ Ashcroft place a gag order on her) are in Sibel Edmonds' own words are in two interviews here,

It is important to read this interview.


http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=2917


Somewhere in the fact that Sibel Edmonds was a translator of the Iranian Farsi language and the Turkish language and the Turkic language of Azerbaijani, are our clues to Who? and What? and even Where? .

What are the answers to Who and What and Where she is referring?


Here are other Edmonds quotes,

“There are certain points... where you have your drug related activities combined with money laundering and information laundering, converging with your terrorist activities.” Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?



"The 9/11 terror plot intersected with the activities of a drug trafficking network of international scope, in ways that form a "crystal clear" picture of what was going on.” --Sibel Edmonds.


"You have a network of people who obtain certain information and they take it out and sell it to … whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East, and their connections. It is only then that you really see the big picture. The post-9/11 ntelligence 'failures' included the willful quashing by the government, of investigations tracing these criminal networks.-- Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator



WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?


“The real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal… Everything from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And yes, there are certain convergences (between) these activities and international terrorism." -Sibel Edmonds

“After almost three years the American people still do not know that thousands of lives can be jeopardized under the unspoken policy of ‘ protecting certain foreign business relations.” —Sibel Edmonds


WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?

[Pallas180]

120. What clues have we gathered?Trading-Selling Info-Arms Dealing -

Is this selling/trading secret information?

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-conservatism/perle.html


1) Unreported (possibly laundered funds) involving Perle, Kissinger,
Black, Hollinger Associates & Trireme:

2) Influence peddling by Perle: paraphrasing: " buy into my company Trireme and I'll see that you get govt contracts" he told Boeing"
Boeing invested $20 million."Boeing, the American aircraft manufacturer, gained access to Perle's Defense Policy board in 2002 by "taking a $20 million stake" in Trireme, "

3)"According to the Nov. 19 Washington Post, Hollinger's tangled corporate structure paid Black and his close associates $200 million in salary, management fees and "non-compete" compensation--while the conglomerate itself made only $23 million in profit.

4) Now the Securities and Exchange Commission has issued subpoenas to officials of Hollinger International. The SEC is looking for unauthorized payments by Black to current and former company executives. According to the Nov. 20 Washington Post, "The regulators are likely to shine a brighter light on the actions of Black, the company's auditors and its other directors, who include Henry A. Kissinger and Richard N. Perle, the former chairman of the National Defense Policy Board.""

5)Gerald Hillman, managing partner of Hillman Capital, received $14 million from Hollinger, according to London's Financial Times. Hillman also is a Trireme partner. The Dec. 10 Financial Times reported that a minority invester in Hollinger International is taking steps to file a lawsuit against its management and current and former board members, including former Illinois Gov. James Thompson and "defense adviser" Perle. ( Is that "Tommy" Thompson? who is an official in the misadministration ?)

6)U.S. Can't Rule Out N.Korea Strike, Perle Says (Reuters, 11 June 2003) Advisors of Influence: Nine Members of the Defense Policy Board Have Ties to Defense Contractors (Center for Public Integrity, 28 March 2003) Oil deals for Halliburton's subsidiary are 'wider than first declared' (Independent.co.uk, 8 May 2003)

7)"A Pentagon adviser, Richard Perle, briefed an investment seminar on ways to profit from conflicts in Iraq and North Korea just weeks after he received a top-secret government document on the crises in the two countries.
Los Angeles Times, 7 May 2003 WASHINGTON -- Last February, the Defense Policy Board, a group of outside advisors to the Pentagon, received a classified presentation from the super-secret Defense Intelligence Agency on the crises in North Korea and Iraq.

Three weeks later, the then-chairman of the board, Richard N. Perle, offered a briefing of his own at an investment seminar on ways to profit from possible conflicts with both countries.

8)"Last week he reportedly took part in a Goldman Sachs conference call to advise clients on investment opportunities arising from the war, and its implications for confrontation with North Korea."

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-conservatism/perle.html


9)Perle served in the Pentagon until 1987 and then became deeply involved in the lobbying and business worlds. Among other corporate commitments, he now serves as a director of a company doing business with the federal government: the Autonomy Corporation, a British firm that recently won a major federal contract in homeland security.

10)By Seymour M. Hersh The New Yorker, 17 March 2003

"At the peak of his deal-making activities, in the nineteen-seventies, the Saudi-born businessman Adnan Khashoggi brokered billions of dollars in arms and aircraft sales for the Saudi royal family, earning hundreds of millions in commissions and fees. Though never convicted of wrongdoing, he was repeatedly involved in disputes with federal prosecutors and with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and in recent years he has been in litigation in Thailand and Los Angeles, among other places, concerning allegations of stock manipulation and fraud. During the Reagan Administration, Khashoggi was one of the middlemen between Oliver North, in the White House, and the mullahs in Iran in what became known as the Iran-Contra scandal. Khashoggi subsequently claimed that he lost ten million dollars that he had put up to obtain embargoed weapons for Iran which were to be bartered (with Presidential approval) for American hostages. The scandals of those times seemed to feed off each other: a congressional investigation revealed that Khashoggi had borrowed much of the money for the weapons from the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (B.C.C.I.), whose collapse, in 1991, defrauded thousands of depositors and led to years of inquiry and litigation.

Khashoggi is still brokering. In January of this year, he arranged a private lunch, in France, to bring together Harb Saleh al-Zuhair, a Saudi industrialist whose family fortune includes extensive holdings in construction, electronics, and engineering companies throughout the Middle East, and Richard N. Perle, the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, who is one of the most outspoken and influential American advocates of war with Iraq.

Hillman, (of Trireme) a former McKinsey consultant, stunned at least one board member at the February meeting(of the Defense Policy Board) when he raised questions about the validity of Iraq’s existing oil contracts. “Hillman said the old contracts are bad news; he said we should kick out the Russians and the French,” the board member told me. “This was a serious conversation. We’d become the brokers. Then we’d be selling futures in the Iraqi oil company"

According to Khashoggi, he was first approached by a Trireme official named Christopher Harriman. Khashoggi professes to be amused by the activities of Perle and Hillman as members of the policy board. As Khashoggi saw it, Trireme’s business potential depended on a war in Iraq taking place. “If there is no war,” he told me, “why is there a need for security?(Trireme was also consulting on Homeland Security)

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/articles/030317-hersh.html

[Pallas180]

123. Pappy pardons Perle for "passing secrets"

"Perle was a member of the U.S. Senate staff between 1969 and 1980 and during this time Perle was expelled from Senator Henry (Soop) Jackson's office after the National Security Agency caught him passing highly- classified National Security information to the Israeli Embassy. He was granted a pardon for these un-American (treasonous?) activities by George H W Bush. He later worked for the Israeli weapons firm, Soltam. From 1981 until 1987 he was assistant secretary of defence for international security policy in the Reagan administration"



A few more interesting Perle companies which do biz with U.S. govt.

"Mr. Perle also served as a director of GeoBiotics, Inc. from 1996 to 2000 and currently serves as a director of E.Certify and NAPRO Biotherapeutics, Inc. He is also a director of the British software company Autonomy, Inc. Autonomy supplies the US Department of Defence, the Department of Homeland Security, and Britain's GCHQ and MI6 with tools that enable the "bugging" of computer communications"

[Pallas180]

124. Perle Asst Sec of Defense at Reagan Iran-Contra

www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Richard_N._Perle

worked in a variety of Senate staff jobs, including the office of late Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson from 1969 to 1980, when he went to work for a private military-consulting firm. The following year he was appointed Assistant Secretary of Defense in the presidential
administration of Ronald Reagan.

During the presidential campaign of George W. Bush, Perle served as a foreign policy advisor.
________________
Asia Times Middle East Aug 12 2003

Iran-Contra, Amplified By Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON - A specter of the Iran-Contra affair is haunting Washington. Even some of the people and countries are the same. And the methods - particularly the pursuit by a network of well-placed individuals of a covert, parallel foreign policy that is at odds with official policy - are definitely the same.

Boiled down to its essentials, the Iran-Contra affair was about a small group of officials based in the National Security Council (NSC) and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that ran an "off-the-books" operation to secretly sell arms to Iran in exchange for hostages held in Lebanon.

They used the proceeds over the following years to sustain the Nicaraguan Contras - US-sponsored rebels fighting Managua's left-wing government - in defiance of both a congressional ban and of official US policy as enunciated by the State Department and then president Ronald Reagan. It was never clear whether Reagan understood, let alone approved, the operation.

The picture emerging from the latest reports about the manipulation of intelligence in the drive to war with Iraq, as well as efforts by administration hawks to deliberately aggravate tensions with Syria, Iran, and North Korea in defiance of official State Department and US policy, suggest a similar but much more ambitious scheme at work.

-snip-

The three agencies, State, NSC, CIA were also kept in the dark about a mission undertaken immediately afterward by former CIA director and DPB member James Woolsey to London to gather intelligence about possible links between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda, as if the CIA or the Pentagon's own Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) could not be trusted.

While Woolsey's trip recalls the more benign shenanigans of the Iran-Contra crowd, consider some of the more recent press reports.

Item: Iran-Contra alumnus Michael Ledeen (and close Perle associate) has renewed ties with his old acquaintance, Manichur Ghorbanifar, an Iranian arms merchant who became the key link between the NSC's Oliver North, the operational head of Iran-Contra, and the so-called "moderates" in the Islamic Republic.

To what end? It appears that certain elements in the Pentagon leadership, specifically Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith, are trying to sabotage sensitive talks between Tehran and the State Department on cooperation over al-Qaeda and other pressing issues affecting Afghanistan and Iraq.

-snip-

Pentagon leadership disagrees strongly with the State Department's efforts to engage (North Korea's) Kim in talks to persuade him to abandon his nuclear-weapons program in exchange for a non-aggression pledge.

Just before Korea agreed to resume talks recently, Under Secretary of State John Bolton, widely considered to be much closer to the Pentagon hawks than his superiors at the State Department, delivered a blistering attack on Kim in what was seen by analysts as a deliberate provocation.

Taken collectively, what these officials describe and what is already on the public record suggest the existence of a disciplined network of zealous, like-minded individuals centered in Feith's office and around Perle in the DPB and operating with the approval of Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney.

This network includes high-level political appointees, such as Bolton, who are scattered around several other key bureaucracies, notably in the State Department, the NSC staff, and, most importantly, in Cheney's office.

Cheney, of course, has a direct link to Bush (and all the heads of agencies) independent of Rice, while his powerful chief of staff and national security adviser, I Lewis "Scooter" Libby, also enjoys exceptional access and influence.

Indeed, the two men's frequent visits (as well as those of another DPB member, former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich) to CIA headquarters before the Iraq war have been cited by retired and anonymous intelligence officers as having exercised an intimidating influence on analysts who disagreed with the more sensational assessments about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and ties to al-Qaeda produced by Feith's office.

Newsday's disclosure that Feith's office has been used for secret contacts with Ghorbanifar suggests that its work goes well beyond assessing intelligence and making policy recommendations.

According to one career military officer who worked for eight months in the Near East/South Asia bureau in that office, the political appointees assigned there and their contacts at the State Department, the NSC and Cheney's office tended to work as a "network" and often deliberately cut out, ignored or circumvented normal channels of communication both within the Pentagon and with other agencies.

"I personally witnessed several cases of staff officers being told not to contact their counterparts at the State or the because that particular decision would be processed through a different channel," wrote retired Lieutenant-Colonel Karen Kwiatkowsky. "What I saw was aberrant, pervasive and contrary to good order and discipline."

In an interview with Inter Press Service, she insisted that her views of Feith's appointees and operations were widely shared by other professional staff, and quoted one veteran career officer "who was in a position to know what he was talking about" as telling her before the Iraq war: "What these people are doing now makes Iran-Contra look like amateur hour."

"I think it's time for a serious investigation ," she said. "I just hope Congress will take it on."

(Inter Press Service) http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EH12Ak03.html

Aug 12, 2003

[RebelYell]

121. Turkish Heroin and Afghani Opium - another must read

The author is a colleague of Wayne Madsen

Turkey, drugs, Faustian alliances and Sibel Edmonds

By John Stanton

June 29, 2004—Taking Turkey as the focal point and with a start date of 1998, it is easy to speculate why Sibel Edmonds indicated that there was a convergence of US and foreign counter-narcotics, counter-terrorism and US national security and economic interests all of which were too preoccupied to surface critical information warning Americans of the attacks of September 11, 2001. After all, who would have believed drug runners operating in Central Asia? And besides, President Clinton was promoting Turkey, one of the world's top drug transit points, as a model for Muslim-Western cooperation and a country necessary to reshape the Middle East.

The FBI's Office of International Operations, in conjunction with the CIA and the US State Department counter-narcotics section, the United Kingdom's MI6, Israel's Mossad, Pakistan's ISI, the US DEA, Turkey's MIT, and the governments and intelligence agencies of dozens of nations, were in one way or another involved in the illicit drug trade, either trying to stop it or benefit from it. What can be surmised from the public record is that from 1998 to September 10, 2001, the "War on Drugs" kept bumping into the nascent "War on Terror" and new directions in US foreign policy.

~~~~~~~~

The historical record shows that the US "War on Drugs" and the nascent "War on Terror" kept colliding with not only within the US intelligence, policy and business apparatus, but also with European strategic and business interests. Turkey continues its push for entry into the European Union and the USA wants that to happen as the current meeting of NATO, and President Bush's attendance under dangerous circumstances, in Turkey demonstrates. Turkey is one of the USA's and Europe's top arms buyers and is located near what could be some of the biggest oil and natural gas fields in the world. At this point it's worth noting that the one of the FBI's tasks is to counter industrial espionage and to engage in it. Where big arms sales pit the US against its European competitors—as is the case in Turkey (particularly starting in 1998)—the FBI is busy making sure the US gets the edge over its competition. Allies are friends only so far.

~~~~~~~~

"After the Gulf War in 1991, Turkey found itself deprived of the all-important Iraqi market and, since it lacked significant oil reserves of its own, it decided to make up for the loss by turning more massively to drugs. The trafficking increased in intensity with the arrival of the hawks in power, after the death in suspicious circumstances of President Turgut Özal in April 1993. According to the minister of interior, the war in Kurdistan had cost the Turkish exchequer upwards of $12.5 billion. According to the daily Hürriyet, Turkey's heroin trafficking brought in $25 billion in 1995 and $37.5 billion in 1996 . . . Only criminal networks working in close cooperation with the police and the army could possibly organize trafficking on such a scale. Drug barons have stated publicly, on Turkish television and in the West, that they have been working under the protection of the Turkish government and to its financial benefit. The traffickers themselves travel on diplomatic passports. The drugs are even transported by military helicopter from the Iranian border."

~~~~~~~~

Both the DOS and the US Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) described in detail the transit routes and countries involved in getting the goods to Turkey. Intelligence organizations here and abroad must have sanctioned the role that they, and Turkey and Afghanistan, played in the process. "Afghanistan is the original source of most of the opiates reaching Turkey. Afghan opiates, and also hashish, are stockpiled at storage and staging areas in Pakistan, from where a ton or larger quantities are smuggled by overland vehicles to Turkey via Iran. Multi-ton quantities of opiates and hashish also are moved to coastal areas of Pakistan and Iran, where the drugs are loaded on ships waiting off-shore, which then smuggle the contraband to points in Turkey along the Mediterranean, Aegean, and/or Marmara seas. Opiates and hashish also are smuggled overland from Afghanistan via Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, and Georgia to Turkey.


~~~~~~~~

Earlier in 1998, Israeli, Turkish and American military forces engaged in exercises in the Mediterranean, according to Reuters and Agencie France Press. "' signal to the radical states in the region that there is a strong alliance between Israel, Turkey and the United States which they must fear,' Israeli political scientist Efraim Inbar said. Defense officials said during last month's visit to Ankara that they hoped the Jewish lobby in Washington would help Turkey offset Greek and Armenian influence on Capitol Hill. 'That's certainly part of this. They expect us to help them and we do help them a bit,' said David Ivri, an adviser who directs biannual strategy talks with Turkey.'" Reports also indicated that the CIA and Pentagon intelligence organizations had regularly chaired meetings of Turkish and Israeli officers in Tel Aviv for years.

~~~~~~~~

Ms Edmonds has given the American people leads that show that they are easily sacrificed for a perceived greater good.

Much more here:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/062904Stanton/062904stanton.html

[Pallas180]

125. Bingo REB - you found what and where !!

" According to the daily Hürriyet, Turkey's heroin trafficking brought in $25 billion in 1995 and $37.5 billion in 1996 . . . Only criminal networks working in close cooperation with the police and the army could possibly organize trafficking on such a scale. Drug barons have stated publicly, on Turkish television and in the West, that they have been working under the protection of the Turkish government and to its financial benefit. The traffickers themselves travel on diplomatic passports. The drugs are even transported by military helicopter from the Iranian border."

~~~~~~~~

Both the DOS and the US Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) described in detail the transit routes and countries involved in getting the goods to Turkey. Intelligence organizations here and abroad must have sanctioned the role that they, and Turkey and Afghanistan, played in the process. "Afghanistan is the original source of most of the opiates reaching Turkey. Afghan opiates, and also hashish, are stockpiled at storage and staging areas in Pakistan, from where a ton or larger quantities are smuggled by overland vehicles to Turkey via Iran. Multi-ton quantities of opiates and hashish also are moved to coastal areas of Pakistan and Iran, where the drugs are loaded on ships waiting off-shore, which then smuggle the contraband to points in Turkey along the Mediterranean, Aegean, and/or Marmara seas. Opiates and hashish also are smuggled overland from Afghanistan via Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, and Georgia to Turkey.

[shraby]

127. According to this map,

it would be expedient to smuggle from Afghanistan through Pakistan then up the Persian Gulf to Iraq then through Iraq to Turkey. Fewer countries to go through so fewer payoffs to make. The drug smuggling business plus the oil that Iraq has sweetens the deal with Iraq out of Saddam's hands.

<http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/me.htm>

Another question, how does Cheney's selling of wmd's fit into the drug smuggling business? We know he likes oil and so does Poppy and Poppy likes poppies. Iraq is essential for both of them. Is Cheney's and Rummy's wmd business an extra sideline or part of the main shenanigans.

[Pallas180]

129. Shraby-a previous link gives the shipping route -& Pakistan

is there, yes...but not your suggested travel route LOL. They went
from Afghanistan to Turkey and down.

Your next question "Another question, how does Cheney's selling of wmd's fit into the drug smuggling business? We know he likes oil and so does Poppy and Poppy likes poppies. Iraq is essential for both of them. Is Cheney's and Rummy's wmd business an extra sideline or part of the main shenanigans."

I think both.
But that answer takes a little more thinking,unraveling,and searching. Actually it's a why question... but we're not up to why yet. We know Cheney's wmd trade was black market in a way - and then there are payments to secret Swiss bank accounts. But let's not rush
this.

One article in the Asia Times broadly hints that this is Iran Contra with the same players all over again... I linked it above
but I'll try to find it again.

We have WHAT - we have some of from WHERE

[Pallas180]

130. Edmonds mentioned another language - WHERE

But, We're still on WHERE - Edmonds mentioned another language :

"America's interests and actions regarding the Caucasus, and with particular regard to Azerbaijan. Clearly, Azerbaijan and the Caspian region should be afforded a much higher priority on the U.S. International agenda."


"the stakes at play in Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, and Turkey, as well as Turkmenistan and Kazakstan, are huge. An historic opportunity exists today to change the face of this region dramatically, to propel the peoples there to higher levels of living, and also to end the strife that has plagued these new nations. Many of the key players to help seize these new opportunities are right here in this room. If it is true, that 2 to 3 million barrels, perhaps more, could flow daily from the Caspian region in the near future, then the development of the region compels the highest levels of attention of this city on a sustained basis."

[Pallas180]

131. Repeat of Iran Contra ???? same players around -Asia Times

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EH12Ak03.html

And they're right...the same who were in the administration from
Reagan's secret wars and Pappy's trading guns for drugs - but
somehow it's reversed...

Now WHAT do they trade for drugs, to sell to arm what countries' far right cadre to overthrow a leftist leaning government?

We can bet Chavez is one.

LIGHTBULB. They , under Carlyle, now have their own weapons manufacturing companies....they can supply the weapons themselves.

So, are they trading their own manufactured weapons for drugs to pay
the "contractors'? mercenary armies???????

[Pallas180]

132. We need to go back and bring up all the names of the

Iran Contra treason.

and compare to who is in administration today.

[H2O Man]

138. It might be easier

to compile the "short list" of those who were not involved. George W. is the only one of significance, and it's only because he was too drunk at the time to be trusted with anything important. Other than that, they are the same people.

[Pallas180]

140. Jeb was involved. Prolly why they placed him in

important drug port of Florida.

Junior was involved...worked for pappy's CIA don't forget....Alaska

once your in, you're in...

be back on , on and off,

we've got lightning

:hi:

[Pallas180]

142. If you think about it, all the bushbrothers are involved - and

uncles - they must all be CIA because of pappy -

banking, investing, computers, arms, governor, pnac signer..

gawd knows what else.

[H2O Man]

134. Weapons, drugs, and money ......

have a long history. You can look at Chicago during prohibition as one model. Or, as you are seeing, you can look at Iran-Contra for the up-dated model.

[Pallas180]

137. Good Morning H20 -

right.

this probably involves the Russian mafia now too - a player that
wasn't around during Iran-Contra -

Maybe that's why Putin arrested the Russian billionaires involved in
oil - they may have been involved in other products also.

The Russian mafia is certainly heavily involved in drug trafficing now.

Massive, just massive, and all the intel agencies know and allow it
to go on.

because I theorize they use the Money, societal engineering, funding of secret wars and black bag operations I'm guessing.

Only it appears to me the situation is worse now - they have their
own private armies, their own ships and submarines, and their own
weapons manufacturing companies.

You're correct. It's crime families of various countries...states within states, only they have become equal in size and strenghth to
the host state from which they have sucked the blood .

And this has to be made clear to the American people at least.

The media.

Here's an interesting article from FAIR of the media defending itself
on its failure to expose Iran-Contra:

http://www.fair.org/extra/best-of-extra/costa-rica-bans-north.html

[Pallas180]

139. Hmmm - where in the world right now

are wars and overthrow of governments in the works?

Then we know where the drug money is funding the chaos.
Nothing changes, eh what?

Can we list the countries?

[H2O Man]

141. The Russian mafia

has been alive and active since the late 1890s. The Soviet Union could not have occured without the Russian mafia. The decline of the USSR involved, among several other significant factors, the expansion of other smaller ethnic organized crime families in the non-Russian parts of the USSR. For a good model to understand this, look at the cities of Trenton and Paterson in New Jersey in the mid-1960s to the mid-1970s: the old and established "mafia," (or Italian-controlled organized crime families) found competition in the black neighborhoods ..... much like Asian-American neighborhoods had their own gig. It leads to increased tension, conflict for control of resources, and a prounced tendency for violent sociopaths to wrest control from more thoughful patriarchs of the family.

[kohodog]

159. deja vu all over again

Let's follow the money. The drug trade is highly profitable. So is the selling of WMD's. The WMD's can be used to prop up and/or bribe countries needed for strategic benefits to this Cabal. (Pakistan for one)

But for your last point Pallas, I think the US taxpayers are paying for the mercenaries, at least in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am sure we have these "contractors all over the globe though.

[Pallas180]

135. Shraby - your map shows Azerbaijan in a key location for

transport -

[Pallas180]

155. Afghan poppies wiped out in 1999 BUT begins again 1 month after 9-11

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/

JALALABAD, Afghanistan (February 15, 2001 8:19 p.m. EST (before 911)

U.N. drug control officers said the Taliban religious militia has nearly wiped out opium production in Afghanistan -- once the world's largest producer -- since banning poppy cultivation last summer.
(and the DEA refused to comment in this story)


BUT

one month after the attack on WTC

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/opiumcrop.html

Taliban stop enforcing anti-opium laws;
Afghan farmers prepare fields for poppies
By KATHY GANNON, Associated Press



ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (October 17, 2001 1:44 p.m. EDT) - A year after a Taliban ban virtually wiped out opium production in Afghanistan, desperate Afghan farmers are once again preparing their fields for planting poppies, a U.N. official said Wednesday.

That could signal a major increase next year in the availability of heroin and other opium-based narcotics in markets in the United States and Western Europe.

Bernard Frahi, the U.N. Drug Control Program representative for Pakistan and Afghanistan, said reports from major poppy-growing areas of southern and eastern Afghanistan indicate fields have been tilled in a manner that suggests farmers will be planting poppies.

It is clear the fields are being prepared for poppies and not wheat, cotton or other crops because of the pattern of tilling, Frahi said.

Poppy fields are tilled in an undulating pattern to allow for free-flow of water. Fields prepared for other crops are flat with canals constructed along large tracts for irrigation, he said.

Signs that Afghan farmers are resuming poppy cultivation are a bitter disappointment to U.N. drug control officials. Last year, the Taliban's supreme leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, banned poppy production as "un-Islamic."

Before that order, which the United Nations said was rigorously enforced, Afghanistan had been the world's largest producer of opium poppies.

As a result of the ban, areas of Afghanistan controlled by the Taliban produced a few hundred tons of opium, compared with 3,200 tons produced last year and 4,500 tons the year before.

"This was the one success story in Afghanistan," Frahi said. "For us it was very important and came after three years of dialogue with the Taliban."

The planting season begins in October and continues for the next two months, Frahi said. Harvest time is in April when it will be evident to what extent Afghanistan has returned to opium production.

-more-

[Pallas180]

158. 2003-Taliban encourage poppy crop for financing Jihad & Al Queda

We have been approached by the Taliban clerics urging us to grow more poppy to destroy future generations in America and other Western countries," an Afghan antinarcotics official named Khaure Ghualm Zai quoted a villager as saying.

It is an unholy alliance," says Mr.Rasoolzai, head of Eastern Afghanistan's antinarcotics department. "Al Qaeda is using drugs as a weapon against America and other Western countries. The weapon of drugs does not make a noise. The victim does not bleed and leaves no trace of the killer."



http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0724/p06s01-wosc.html


POPPY PICKING: Men harvest poppies in a field west of Khandahar, Afghanistan. Profits from the sale of poppy is funding Taliban attacks in the country's south.

The Taliban connection

Some of the regions hardest hit by regrouping Taliban forces are well known areas for opium cultivation, including Nangarhar in the east, and Uruzgan, Helmand, and Nimroz in the south. The latter two provinces serve as a smuggling route into Pakistan and Iran.

VICTOR R. CAIVANO/AP/FILE


Bumper year for Afghan poppies

"Money from the opium trade may diminish US influence over the warlords, and aid Taliban."

-snip-

Afghan farmers are producing a bumper crop of poppies this year, despite a ban imposed by President Hamid Karzai's government, and just three years after the Taliban clamped down on cultivation.

The resurgence of this plant - used to make heroin - could unravel the relationships between warlords and the US military that have brought a modicum of peace to Afghanistan.

Poppy cultivation could not happen without the knowledge of powerful warlords who still control most of Afghanistan with their loyal militias. Sources say warlords, commanders, and corrupt officials buy opium from the farmers and provide safe passage to drug barons, who smuggle out either raw opium or refined heroin processed in makeshift factories.

Afghan antinarcotics officials estimate that a kilo of heroin in Afghanistan is worth from $5,000 to $20,000, but in the international black market the price soars, from $70,000 to $300,000. The value varies according to quality.

As more poppy cash is believed to be flowing into the coffers of Afghan warlords, American money may buy less influence with the warlords and jeopardize joint operations hunting down Taliban and Al Qaeda remnants.

-more-

[RebelYell]

143. Someone needs to listen to Hopsicker's interview at

http://www.breakfornews.com

I have dial up and the interview is 16MB, so I can't listen to it

I got an email from him today reminding me of the interview -

"Fintan Dunne talks with Daniel Hopsicker about the latest revelations about the Morrocan defense attache's ties with a man on the terrorist watch list, and why this man also has ties to Pascal Schreier, the mysterious German National who "recrutied" pilots in Europe for the Dutch-owned flight schools at the Venice airport. Is this the 9/11 associated global network that FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds discovered was being protected by the state department?"

Also, I'm about 1/2 way through Chapter 3 in his book. I've started an outline to post here.

[Pallas180]

145. Iran-Contra archives - quite a read - names, names, names

Oliver North documents
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm

Congressional Investigation of CIA - Iran Contra drug smuggling
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/pktstmny.htm

John Hull - It seems that the narcotics commission was looking into the possible drug smuggling activities of a US-born Costa Rican rancher named John Hull and his relationship with Oliver North. By the way, North's personal notebook mentioned" the necessity of giving Mr. Hull protection." Speaking of entries in Oliver North's notebook, here's one of my favorites from July 12, 1985: "$14 million to finance came from drugs."

[Pallas180]

147. Senator Kerry investigates Ollie & I-C Drugs

-snip-

Though Castillo had been reporting his findings all along, to no
avail, a December 1988 report prepared by the Congressional
Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and International Operations
(the Kerry Committee) confirmed Castillo's allegations and
concluded: "There was substantial evidence of drug smuggling
through the war zones on the part of the individual Contras,
Contra pilots, mercenaries who worked with the Contras, and the
Contra supporters throughout the region."

The committee, chaired by Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, also
found that on March 16, 1987, a plane owned by known drug
smugglers was seized by U.S. customs officers after dumping what
appeared to be a load of drugs off the Florida coast: "Law
enforcement personnel also found an address book aboard the
plane, containing among other references the telephone numbers of
some Contra officials and the Virginia telephone number of Robert
Owen, Oliver North's courier," the committee reported. And on
July 28, 1988, DEA agents testifying before Kerry's committee
said it was North's idea in 1985 to give the Contras $1.5 million
in drug money being used by DEA informant Barry Seal in a sting
operation aimed at the drug cartels.

If that wasn't enough to compel investigators to pursue North
himself as a drug dealer, Castillo provided them with what should
have been the clincher. In a February 14, 1989, memo to Robert
Stia, the country attache in Guatemala, Castillo laid out in
minute detail the structure of the Ilopango operation and
identified more than two dozen known drug smugglers who
frequented Hangars 4 and 5.

Huge quantities of drugs and guns were being smuggled through
Ilopango by mercenary pilots hired by North, Castillo wrote.
"Now, all these contract pilots were documented
traffickers, Class I cocaine violators that were being hired by
the CIA and the Contras," the memo stated. "And the U.S. embassy
in El Salvador was giving visas to these people even though they
were documented in our computers as being narcotics traffickers."

Among those Castillo identified was Carlos Alberto Amador, "a
Nicaraguan pilot mentioned in six (6) DEA files....The DEA was
advised by a source at the U.S. embassy in San Salvador that
personnel from the CIA had allegedly obtained a U.S. visa for
Amador." Amador, Castillo discovered, kept four planes at
Ilopango, and a frequent companion of his was was Jorge Zarcovick
who "is mentioned in twelve (12) DEA files," and "was arrested in
the U.S. for smuggling large quantities of cocaine."

Walter 'Wally' Grasheim was another smuggler tagged by Castillo.
"He is mentioned in seven (7) DEA files," Castillo wrote. "He is
documented as a cocaine and arms smuggler from South America to
the U.S. via Ilopango airport. He utilized hangars 4 and 5.
Grasheim is also known to carry DEA, FBI, and CIA credentials to
smuggle cocaine." "Wally Grasheim," Castillo said, "was an
American working hand-in-hand with Colonel Oliver North."
Grasheim lost his life while accompanying CIA contract arms
smuggler Eugene Hasenfus, whose plane was shot down during a
clandestine flight over Nicaragua in 1986.
snippets posted, but the whole thing with names and connections really
worth the read:

http://www.csun.edu/CommunicationStudies/ben/news/cia/961120.castillo.html


-snip-

When the DEA raided Grasheim's house in El Salvador, agents found
explosives, weapons, radio equipment and license plates, Castillo
said, adding that much of the weaponry and other material was
traced back to the U.S. embassy in El Salvador. Castillo said
that when he tried to gather more information on the munitions,
he was told by the Pentagon to drop the investigation.

It would not be the last time Castillo was told to back off. Nor
was it the last time he ignored such an order and kept on digging.

Much of Castillo's information came from a DEA informant who had
worked at the Ilopango airport, doing flight plans and keeping
flight logs. The informant, who used the pseudonym 'Hugo
Martinez,' was in an ideal position to witness and document
North's drug deals. Martinez passed the information he gathered
on to Castillo. In an interview, Martinez confirmed Castillo's
story about widespread drug and arms dealing by the CIA and the
North network at Hangars 4 and 5.

-snip-

[Pallas180]

153. Our problem is

the Congress knows and allows it to continue -

When all of America knows, and demands it to stop, and re-vets
every intelligence agent - maybe America will get out of the
drug business.

How do we make America know?

[Pallas180]

154. History repeats itself - Ollie outed an operation causing agents' lives

in order to cover his operation

".Mr. North claimed to talk show hosts Hannity and Colmes that the Kerry report was "wrong," that Sen. Kerry "makes this stuff up and then he can't justify it," and that "The fact is nobody in the government of the United States, going all the way back to the earliest days of this under Jimmy Carter, ever had anything to do with running drugs to support the Nicaraguan resistance. Nobody in the government of the United States. I will stand on that to my grave."

The Kerry subcommittee did not report that U.S. government officials ran drugs, but rather, that Mr. North, then on the National Security Council staff at the White House, and other senior officials created a privatized contra network that attracted drug traffickers looking for cover for their operations, then turned a blind eye to repeated reports of drug smuggling related to the contras, and actively worked with known drug smugglers such as Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega to assist the contras. The report cited former Drug Enforcement Administration head John Lawn testifying that Mr. North himself had prematurely leaked a DEA undercover operation, jeopardizing agents' lives, for political advantage in an upcoming Congressional vote on aid to the contras"

more -

http://www.newsroom-l.net/blog/archives/000038.html

[Gregorian]

146. Well, I just listened to it.

I really doubt that my post will be helpful. This stuff is way over my head. And as such, I may have missed the important stuff.

I came away from the interview with a whole new perspective on how our government is operating. Where there's money, we can expect this. Drug running and flight schools are two areas they discussed.

Early on I heard Hopsicker saying that we know that Mohammed Atta listened to the Beastie Boys incessantly. He just mentioned it to point out that we know enough people who knew him closely, to have much more detailed information from him.

Then something about how Pascal Schreier recruited as many as three figures worth of pilots. Evidently some of the flight schools (ie.) Norman, OK) were participating in some covert operations that we know nothing about.

And isn't it weird that Mohammed Atta's best friends during the last year before 9-11 were 7 or 8 Swiss or Germans.

"Iran Contra reloaded"- Sharlot county airport (Florida?) I can't remember much. But if I remember, that county was buying dozens of surplus planes, one of which showed up in Mexico with a billion dollars of cocaine on it. And that county lost 23 helicopters when it only has one city.
This drug activity starts from the top, not the bottom. All the way to the president. The sherrif of Sharlot county couldn't smuggle drugs without the fbi coming in, unless he were told it was ok.

An interesting explanation of Vietnam- We wrested the heroin trade from France.

New world order- an international league of big guys who do business in drugs, etc. outside and above the law. Not even that, but being able to do it with a wink. (Darn, I don't remember the details.)

His story; Sibel's story; And another story mentioned specifically, are all in agreement.



Hope this did something. I'm very poor at remembering.

[Pallas180]

151. GREGORIAN - you did great - his story confirms what I've

found here of the history of Ollie, Hull, Salvador, Nicaragua,
Guatemala, Costa Rica.....and Kerry's Senate Investigation.

Same operation, they just moved the locations, replaced some fliers.

It occurs to me that all the East German spies were out of work when
the Berlin wall came down -- I'm not surprised a lot of German names
are involved in the current CIA smuggling operation - and Mohammed
Atta apparently was very well connected with the drug and spy operation.

[Pallas180]

152. If you review Ollie, Iran Contra, Reagan & Pappy - you know

911 was not LIHOP.

It was MIHOP.

[Gregorian]

157. What a tangled web.

I grew up in the San Francisco area. I was able to hear a tiny radio station, which still has Dave Emory. He and May Brussels used to talk every week. I'd listen while wrenching in the garage, thinking "these guys are nuts". It was intertainment, yet I was enthralled because they weren't just rambling. They were using facts. Well, here we are twenty five years later, and everything they said was true. Dave has, I imagine, thousands of hours of archives. I believe they're online, at a website called spitfire. I'm not even sure how one would use them for research. If I only had photographic memory. Because much of his discussion was about where the Nazi's went after the war. And where they went was the CIA. Some of it is well known. Such as "that guy" who got our space program off the ground.

Just as an aside- I was mumbling to myself after reading a few of the posts on this thread regarding drugs and related activities, that perhaps the drug war was a way of doing several things-
-Making it look like our government was fighting drug proliferation.
-Creating a department that could shield illegal government drug shipping.
-Keep drug prices high so they could make more profits doing b.

At first it was the hypocracy (drug war) that enraged me. Now it's discovering what was behind it, that has me quite frightened.

I'm designing and machining a part for my bicycle, today. So, it's back to work.

};-Þ

[Pallas180]

160. Yeah Gregorian, thanks. We all know the feeling.

and these are the people who are spouting "family values" (we didnt know they meant crime family values, but we knew it never rang true)


The same people who are always spouting off their Christianity.
I'd like to see the faces of the fundamentalists if or when they ever
learn what their leaders really are.

But we have to figure out how to let the fundamentalists to know this
and the rest of American citizenry.

If and when a Messiah returns- I wouldn't want to be one of that "family values" crowd..

[Gregorian]

167. I love your sense of humor.

That really got a chuckle out of me. And anything I can get, is so helpful these days. Crime family values, HA! I'll be remembering that one.

[kohodog]

161. Hi Gregorian

Thanks for your input.

I'd also love to know more about your bike!!

[Gregorian]

165. I pretty much live to ride.

Growing up in the SF area, I was near the most fantastic rodes. Oh, it'a a long story. Essentially, I get a lot of satisfaction from riding. More Americans are finding this out.

Now, with the increase in cars, I don't ride on the road. But since I live in logging country (which in itself a very sad and long story), I ride off-road.

If you think Bush's bike is expensive, my mountain bike is around five grand. It's a Giant NRS Air. Unbelievable technology. Disc brakes and suspension. Tubless tires. It's a ball. I almost ran over a bear a few weeks ago. I'll be staying off that trail for a while. I just don't want to bother them. With all of the logging, they need a place to rest.

I'm making my own rollamajig. It's just a little pulley mechanism that is used where the shifting cables bend sharply. I could buy one for nine bucks, but that would be too easy. So instead, I've spent hours using Autocad to design one. Building it is the easy part.

To be honest. And to make a long story short. America would be very wise, and healthier, if more people would ride bikes. We're way behind. One of only three countries on the planet, to not accept the metric system. We just won't learn.

[kohodog]

169. I ride a road bike

Used to ride a couple hundred miles a week, at least. Now with work and all I get out when I can. Lots of great back road rides in CT. Not so many trails.

[RebelYell]

162. Thanks for listening to it, Gregorian

I'll let my computer run all night while downloading it and I'll listen to it tomorrow to see if I can add anything to it.

Hopsicker was the only investigative journalist that went knocking on doors in Venice.

[peace4allpeople]

156. notes from congress on this

It proves conclusively that Dick Cheney knew about A.Q. Khan’s nuclear Walmart as early as 1989,

http://www.thenoflamezone.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1267

Mr. DELAHUNT. If I can, we certainly know the gentleman is absolutely correct. If we want to talk about weapons of mass destruction program-related activities, let us go back to that point in time when the current Secretary of State, Colin Powell, was the National Security Adviser and when the current Vice President, Mr. Cheney, was the Secretary of Defense.

What I find particularly fascinating is, as Dr. Condoleezza Rice just said, if I can find the quote, she said just recently, he used weapons of mass destruction, just as the gentleman indicates. The truth was that we were transferring to him the computers and the ingredients necessary to advance his nuclear weapons program. That happened.

We, the United States Government, during the 1980s under Reagan and President George Herbert Walker Bush, were removing him from the terrorist list, installing an embassy in Baghdad, providing intelligence to Saddam Hussein in the war against Iran. And when it came to that horrific incident in Chalabi where he used chemical weapons against the Kurds who had aligned themselves with the Iranians, there was a condemnation, let us call it lip service. And yet, when this institution, this House and the United States Senate in 1989 and 1990 attempted to impose sanctions on the Saddam Hussein regime, you know what the position of the administration was then, led by the Secretary of Defense and the National Security Adviser? They killed the bill. They killed the bill.

[RebelYell]

163. This is interesting, from the brave Cynthia McKinney

THE TWILIGHT ZONE, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS GEORGE BUSH'S AMERICA -- (House of Representatives - March 05, 2002)

GPO's PDF
---
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the gentlewoman from Georgia (Ms. MCKINNEY) is recognized for 5 minutes.

Ms. McKINNEY. Mr. Speaker, I am worried about what is happening to our great country today. I fear that many of us cannot see what is happening here. Maybe we are too close. Maybe there are even people who do not want us to see; but our friends and allies in Europe and elsewhere are reporting that they are seeing disturbing developments in our country, like the fading of our fundamental constitutional rights, the creation of a war machine that threatens world peace, the spending of a generation of Americans on this war on terrorism, and even an attack on truth in government by forming the Office of Strategic Influence to lie to us and to the rest of the world. The President even asked Hollywood to make these developments palatable to the American people.

With this as a backdrop, I would just like to ask that Members close their eyes and imagine being drawn deeper and deeper into black space. If Members keep their eyes closed and if they close them good and tight, they will be able to imagine themselves going faster and faster and deeper and deeper into a black unknown.

All of a sudden we see a bright light at a distance far away, but faster and faster and closer and closer it becomes brighter and brighter; and in one instant, with one grand motion, we can cross from the darkness into the light. But just before we make the crossing, a huge booming voice coming from nowhere, and at the same time coming from everywhere, booms all around us: You unlock this door with the key of understanding. Beyond it is another dimension, a dimension of hearing that which is not spoken, a dimension of seeing that which is invisible, a dimension of reading that which is not written.

We are moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. Welcome. We just crossed over into the Twilight Zone , otherwise known as George Bush's America. For it is here and only here that the White House could receive warning after warning of massive attacks that were going to take place on American soil, the attack happens, and both the President and the Vice President, in separate phone calls to TOM DASCHLE, ask that Congress not investigate what happened and why. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone .

Or that an administration battling worldwide perception, as well as a domestic one having come to power in circumstances like Zambia's or Kenya's, could form a shadow government inside the selected government, with no one in the real government knowing about the shadow government except the shadow leaders in it. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone .

Or that this President could propose the biggest hike in defense spending, where his dad stands to make a mint, as long as increased spending does not get lost wherever the $2.3 trillion is that the Pentagon has already lost, and the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, says we can afford it. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone .

Or that Arthur Andersen, who kept Enron's books, could still have contracts to keep the books over at FBI, DOJ, and the Pentagon. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone .

Wake up, America. We are not only in the Twilight Zone , we have crossed the threshold into George Bush's America.
_________________

[Pallas180]

166. REB - these are the 4 most important paragraphs of her speech

Ms. McKINNEY. Mr. Speaker, I am worried about what is happening to our great country today. I fear that many of us cannot see what is happening here. Maybe we are too close. Maybe there are even people who do not want us to see; but our friends and allies in Europe and elsewhere are reporting that they are seeing disturbing developments in our country, like the fading of our fundamental constitutional rights, the creation of a war machine that threatens world peace, the spending of a generation of Americans on this war on terrorism, and even an attack on truth in government by forming the Office of Strategic Influence to lie to us and to the rest of the world. The President even asked Hollywood to make these developments palatable to the American people.

-snip-

Or that an administration battling worldwide perception, as well as a domestic one having come to power in circumstances like Zambia's or Kenya's, could form a shadow government inside the selected government, with no one in the real government knowing about the shadow government except the shadow leaders in it.

-snip-

Or that this President could propose the biggest hike in defense spending, where his dad stands to make a mint, as long as increased spending does not get lost wherever the $2.3 trillion is that the Pentagon has already lost,

-snip-

Or that Arthur Andersen, who kept Enron's books, could still have contracts to keep the books over at FBI, DOJ, and the Pentagon. That could only happen in the Twilight Zone .

[Pallas180]

164. Thanks PEACE, If you read American Judas on top of this thread

you will see that we have tied Cheney into the sales of nuke components to Pakistani Khan"s "Nuclear Walmart".

Have you read it yet? I think it'll fill in a lot of stuff for you.

Right now we're looking at Sibel Edmonds' and what she's trying to
tell us about the US government and 9-11.

If you have some google on that, please do add it.

Nice to have you visit.

:hi:

[kohodog]

168. Amy goodman's interview with Edmond's 3/31/04

The end of the second paragraph here is particularly interesting, with regard to money laundering, drugs, etc. She's under a gag order, but I'd love to see her testify!

snip:

AMY GOODMAN: Looking specifically at the Op-Ed piece that Condoleezza Rice wrote in the "Washington Post" on March 22nd, she said, Despite what some have suggested we received no intelligence that terrorists were preparing to attack the homeland using airplanes as missiles. Though, some analysts speculated that the terrorists might hijack airlines to try to free U.S.-held terrorists. The F.A.A. even issued a warning to airlines and aviation security personnel that, quote, The potential for a terrorist operation such as an airline hijacking to free terrorists incarcerated in the United States remains a concern.


SIBEL EDMONDS: Well, I would say not only that we had specific information, we had several specific information as early as April, 2001. And many of this information has been public already. I mean, you look at what Agent Rowley provided, you look at the Phoenix Memo, the investigations that I worked on after 9-11, retranslating certain documents related to certain investigations, that is the reason I'm saying this is absolutely inaccurate. We had not one, but we had many specific informations, and this information was not maybe investigated under counter-terrorism because it's very difficult to separate these issues when you have criminal investigation, and money laundering investigation, drug related investigations that actually have major information regarding 9-11 incidents. To say that they would be mostly under counter-terrorism would be a wrong assumption, too.


http://www.therearguard.pdx.edu/issues/Vol6_iss7_april04/Former%20FBI%20Translator.htm

[kohodog]

170. More, from Geurilla News

Edmonds, 33--fluent in English, Farsi, Turkish and Azerbaijani--who worked out of the Washington, DC FBI field office for six months, told TomFlocco.com, "You’ll have to ask the Attorney General about that," but she added somewhat cryptically, "I can say that Senator Charles Grassley (R-IA) has said that the information I have is 'very credible.' "

The translator alluded to additional but more volatile allegations in a phone call on Friday night to Kyle Hence, cofounder of 9-11 Citizens Watch, who said in a widely distributed email that Edmonds told him "if what she knows is revealed, it could lead to charges of treason being leveled against officials at top levels of the U.S. government."

Hence added, "If that is the case, then all those who have been involved in keeping this information from getting to the public are complicit in this treason."

http://www.guerrillanews.com/forum/showthreaded.pl?Board=state&Number=290346

I think she knows too much which is why her testimony was classified retroactively.

[H2O Man]

171. Yes, indeed!

I think she knows a good deal .... just a hint: look at the languages .... hmmmm..... Turkish? hmmmm.... Who killed the Kurds? Or, another way of saying that, WHY were they killed? Who benefited? If Saddam actually killed some Kurds, does it follow that he killed all? Or were there others who had a reason to use the weapons that ....ah, who sold to Saddam? And who were the "middle-men"?

Tip of the ice cube .... but something to consider.

[shraby]

179. A little Kurdish history

(snip)

With the overthrow of the Iraqi monarchy in 1958, the Kurds hoped for greater administration and development projects, which the new Ba’athist government failed to grant. Agitation among Iraq’s Kurds for a unified and autonomous Kurdistan led in the 1960s to prolonged warfare between Iraqi troops and the Kurds under Mustafa al-Barzani. In 1970, Iraq finally promised local self-rule to the Kurds, with the city of Erbil as the capital of the Kurdish area. The Kurds refused to accept the terms of the agreement, however, contending that the president of Iraq would retain real authority and demanding that Kirkuk, an important oil center, be included in the autonomous Kurdish region. 6
In 1974 the Iraqi government sought to impose its plan for limited autonomy in Kurdistan. It was rejected by the Kurds, and heavy fighting erupted. After the establishment of the Islamic Republic in Iran (1979), the government there launched a murderous campaign against its Kurdish inhabitants as well as a program to assassinate Kurdish leaders. Iraqi attacks on the Kurds continued throughout the Iran-Iraq War (1980–88), culminating (1988) in poison gas attacks on Kurdish villages to quash resistance and in the rounding up and execution of male Kurds, all of which resulted in the killing of some 200,000 in that year alone. 7
With the end of the Persian Gulf War (1991), yet another Kurdish uprising against Iraqi rule was crushed by Iraqi forces; nearly 500,000 Kurds fled to the Iraq-Turkey border, and more than one million fled to Iran. Thousands of Kurds subsequently returned to their homes under UN protection. In 1992 the Kurds established an “autonomous region” in N Iraq and held a general election. However, the Kurds were split into two opposed groups, the Kurdistan Democratic party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, which engaged in sporadic warfare. In 1999 the two groups agreed to end hostilities; control of the region is divided between them. Kurdish forces aided the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, joining with U.S. and British forces to seize the traditionally Kurdish cities of Kirkuk and Mosul. Turkish fears of any attempt by Iraqi Kurds to proclaim their independence from Iraq—and thus revive the longstanding hopes of Turkish Kurds for independence (see below)—led Turkey to threaten to intervene in N Iraq. 8
In Turkey, where the government has long attempted to suppress Kurdish culture, fighting erupted in the mid-1980s, mainly in SE Turkey, between government forces and guerrillas of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), which was established in 1984. The PKK has also engaged in terrorist attacks. In 1992 the Turkish government again mounted a concerted attack on its Kurdish minority, killing more than 20,000 and creating about two million refugees. In 1995, Turkey waged a military campaign against PKK base camps in northern Iraq, and in 1999 it captured the guerrillas’ leader, Abdullah Ocalan, who was subsequently condemned to death. Some 23,000–30,000 people are thought to have died in the 15-year war. The legal People’s Democracy party is now the principal civilian voice of Kurdish nationalism in Turkey. The PKK announced in Feb., 2000, that they would end their attacks, but the arrest the same month of the Kurdish mayors of Diyarbakir and other towns on charges of aiding the rebels threatened to revive the unrest. Reforms passed in 2002 and 2003 to facilitate Turkish entrance in the European Union included ending bans on private education in Kurdish and on giving children Kurdish names; also, emergency rule in SE Turkey was ended. There were also clashes in the 1990s between the Kurds of Turkey and Iraq.

<http://www.bartleby.com/65/ku/Kurds.html>

I think it would do well to examine Turkey in relationship to the Kurds.

[H2O Man]

182. It would be

one of the keys needed to understand what is happening there .... and here.

[Pallas180]

172. Wait a minute. April 2001 -Who was under money laundering investigation?

was that Riggs bank? and Uncle Jonathan ?
or was it BAndar and the Saudis?

how could we google April 2001 drug investigation, criminal (Perle)
and money laudnering investigations - banks?

People in DC would know exactly what she's talking about.

So, how come nobody's talking.

If Woodward wasn't part of the establishment, he should be breaking
it in WAPO.

[shraby]

173. The gathering storm around Richard Perle

Nov. 26, 2003

(snip)

But more ominous for Perle than questions about his foreign policy meddling are those regarding his business dealings, as he suddenly finds himself at the center of a boardroom scandal that's likely to claim Lord Conrad Black's $1 billion media empire. Up until last week, Black served as CEO of Hollinger International, whose key assets include the Chicago Sun-Times, the London Daily Telegraph and the Jerusalem Post.

The company's implosion was sparked when an audit by outsiders, lead by former Securities and Exchange Commission chairman Richard Breeden, discovered $32 million in questionable payments to key company executives, including $7.2 million directly to Black and $16.55 million to Hollinger's Canadian parent company. The generous payments were made while Hollinger's handpicked board of directors apparently looked the other way as the CEO allegedly used the public company as his private piggy bank.

Perle serves on Hollinger's board with Henry Kissinger and Black's wife, conservative columnist Barbara Amiel, among others.

Drawing shareholder scrutiny, as well, are investments Hollinger made in companies run by its board members. Hollinger Digital, headed by Perle, invested $2.5 million in Trireme Partners, the venture capital firm that invests in technology, goods and services related to homeland security and defense. Trireme Partners is co-managed by Perle.

(more)
<http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/26/perle/>

[shraby]

174. More on Perle

from same article.

The Hollinger revelations follow the accusations of last spring that Perle was representing companies that had business pending before the Department of Defense, while at the same time he was advising the DOD in a semi-official capacity. In March, Perle was forced to give up his unpaid position as chairman of the Defense Policy Board after conflict-of-interest allegations were made in the press, most notably the New Yorker and the New York Times. (At Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's request, Perle remained on the board itself, but not as chairman.)

This month the Department of Defense's inspector general pronounced Perle innocent of any ethics violations, although the ruling was based mostly on a technicality. The inquiry determined that through his role with the Defense Policy Board, Perle works for the Pentagon only eight days a year, so he is therefore not subject to its stringent conflict-of-interest regulations.

(snip)

It's too early to say who might buy up Hollinger's highest-profile properties, but it's questionable whether the new owners would maintain the dailies' conservative slant. Of particular interest to hard-liners is Hollinger's Jerusalem Post. As the Jewish Forward newspaper in New York City noted last week, "The Post was historically known as a left-wing newspaper, until its acquisition by Hollinger in 1989. Since then it has become a leading conservative outlet for opponents of the peace process throughout the world."

The sale of the Jerusalem Post would also rob Perle of one of his most reliable media outlets, where -- being tossed softball questions -- he's often interviewed at length about current events. ("How does Bush compare with your idol Ronald Reagan in defending the free world?") The paper though, rarely informs readers that Perle sits on the board of directors of the company that publishes the Post. In fact, just last week, the Post conducted a lengthy sit-down with Perle, but failed to ask him about the key role he may have played in the burgeoning Hollinger scandal. In fact, the issue was never addressed.

(more)
<http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/26/perle/index1.html>

apply for the free 1 day pass to read the Perle article.

[H2O Man]

176. I think you

did a good job connecting him to Wolfowitz a couple of threads back. Make a habit of this: every thing you find out about Perle, make a mental note of how it connects with Wolfowitz.

[H2O Man]

175. Woodward

is an asset. I said that about 4 or 5 times on these threads. That is how he was approached by those he turned into "Deep Throat." It also is the explanation of the tone of his last two books.

[RebelYell]

180. Woodward's background - Yale, Navy and Pentagon

~~~~~~~~

A Yalie and a Secret Society Member
The staunchly conservative Bob Woodward grew up in Wheaton, Illinois. A good student at Yale, he was ultimately one of fifteen seniors "tapped" for one of that university's secret societies, Book and Snake, a cut below the more infamous Skull and Bones, but the top of the second-tier fraternities.

~~~~~~~~

Certainly, with the CIA encouraged to recruit on the Yale campus, particularly among history majors and secret societies, it is more than reasonable to assume Bob may have been one of those approached by the agency, or by a military intelligence unit, especially after four years of naval ROTC training.

~~~~~~~~

Three days after graduating from Yale, Woodward was sent by the U.S. Navy to Norfolk, Virginia, where he was commissioned as an ensign by none other than U.S. Senator George Smathers from Florida. Bob's assignment was to a very special ship, called a "floating Pentagon," the U.S.S. Wright. The ship was a National Emergency Command Ship-a place where a President and cabinet could preside from in the event of a nuclear war. It had elaborate and sophisticated communications and data processing capabilities. It had a smaller replica of the war room at the Pentagon. It ran under what was called SIOP-Single Integrated Operation Plan. For example, in the event of nuclear war, the Wright was third in line to take full command if the two ahead of it, the Strategic Air Command in Omaha (SAC) and NORAD, were rendered incommunicado. Woodward-straightfacedly-told authors Colodny and Gettlin (Silent Coup) that he guessed he was picked for the ship because he had been a radio ham as a kid. (BWHAHAHA)

~~~~~~~~

After a two and a half year stint on the Wright, Woodward was assigned to go to Vietnam. Woodward wrote the Pentagon asking to serve on a destroyer. The wish was granted.

~~~~~~~~

He was stationed aboard the U.S.S. Fox, based in Southern California. The personnel on board the Fox included an intelligence team, many of whom had studied Russian and Asian languages at the famous armed services language school in Monterey, California.

From there, Woodward moved on to a Pentagon assignment, a job that included briefing top officers in the government. Admiral Thomas Moorer and former secretary of defense Melvin Laird are both on record noting that Woodward briefed Al Haig at the White House during this period. What is suspicious is Woodward's semi-admittance to Hougan that he had done some briefing, and his complete denial to Colodny and Gettlin that he had ever briefed anyone at the White House. Havill notes:

Considering the evidence, Bob Woodward's denial more strongly suggests intelligence than it does his uninvolvement in White House briefings.

~~~~~~~~

Woodward's secrecy about his past, his choice of associates, and what is known of his activities caused Havill to write:

The question, then, begs itself once more. Was Bob Woodward ever a free-lance or retained Central Intelligence Agency liaison officer, informant or operative . . . ? This author got various forms of affirmative opinions from intelligence experts. It would explain his assignment to the Wright and his misleading statements to interviewers. It would make understandable his being able to get out of going to Vietnam in 1968, his extension for an additional year at the Pentagon, his being chosen to brief at the White House and his denials as well. It would also help explain his subsequent high-level friendships with leaders of the U.S. military and the CIA.

More:
http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr196-woodward.html

(I seem to remember something strange about Woodward and Moorer, I'll see if I can find it.)

[H2O Man]

183. I'm going to give another clue

to you all: the Walrus was .... no, wait, wrong clue. Uh, regarding his ability to work radios, as he had since he was a kid on "ham radio," ..... connect the dots .... he was saying something that was a joke, and wasn't!

At the time, CI was "competing" with NSA for people with a familiarity in this type of thing. You picked up on there being something odd about him saying this. His entire work on Watergate ....hmmmm, communicating .... with codes .....hmmmm...

[RebelYell]

189. All I really remember about Woodward were his Haig briefings

You know....Alexander "I'm in charge here" Haig. I remember thinking that Haig made a huge fool of himself, and I chuckle when I see him to this day. I think Haig may have been part of Deep Throat, but I don't have any proof.

The ham radio remark was just too out in left field to believe, IMO. You don't get a job like that because you played around with radios when you were a kid. Come on, Bob, you're a great journalist, you can come up with something better than that.

Edited to correct

[H2O Man]

191. When Haig made his infamous

remark, he was trying to keep the administration from subverting the United States Constitution. It wasn't what it appeared to most Americans at the time. He was being opposed by a group that includes some of the people who have spanned the Nixon to Bush 2 era.


While I don't care for Woodward, he is a fairly honest person. A childhood hobby can turn into an adult talent used on a job. For example, many of the people used by US MI in both WW1 and WW2 got their start in communications & codes from having a telegrapher from the railroads in their family. Even a brief review of the communications histories will show that the men who created these departments almost all came from humble "morse code" backgrounds.

[RebelYell]

181. Now I remember.......The Moorer/Radford spy ring

The Pentagon was spying on Nixon

~~~~~~~~

In November 1970, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, upset at the way Nixon and National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger were running the war in Vietnam, pursuing détente with the Soviets and an opening to China, and believing that Nixon was selling out the United States to the Communists, set up a spy ring inside the National Security Council office at the White House. Its purpose was to steal the President's most important secrets, and with them to undermine his policies.

The spy ring ran for thirteen months and stole thousands of pages of White House secret documents and delivered them to the offices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The first inkling that the White House had of this spy ring came in a Jack Anderson column of December 14, 1971; entitled "US Tilts to Pakistan," it revealed information that could only have come from inside the highest levels of the Pentagon or the White House.

During the next seven days, investigators in both institutions sprang into action, and soon found the immediate culprit, a yeoman (Charles E. Radford) working in the NSC offices. His confession, and within days, that of his superior, Admiral Robert O. Welander, led to the dramatic events of December 21, 1971.

On that day, the President learned of the spy operations in all its minute details, and made a fateful decision, one that would deeply affect the course of his administration and be a factor in its demise in 1974. When told of the spy operation, Nixon declared it a "federal offense of the highest order." But he did not demand that anyone be prosecuted. Rather, he covered up what he learned that day, and re-appointed the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. The spy ring and his actions this day would remain the deepest and most closely held secret of his Administration. The President was even willing to keep it secret during the Watergate scandal, when revealing it might well have saved his presidency; and in later years he refused to acknowledge the truth about it even when confronted with the strongest available evidence. He took the secret to his grave.

~~~~~~~~

Here's all the sordid details:
http://www.watergate.com/stories/spyring.asp

[H2O Man]

184. Gosh. Maybe I didn't need

to put in a clue. You're connecting some more dots.

[RebelYell]

187. I researched alot of this stuff after 9/11

I didn't bother to connect dots, because I felt helpless, being one person. People don't want to hear about gov't corruption. It makes them uneasy and scared. That's why the bulk of people believe the "official story" on everything - because it's convenient and they don't have to think. I prefer to think for myself.

[robertpaulsen]

177. I saw Bush's Brain on Thursday.

I was away this weekend visiting family, but before I left I went to the Egyptian Theatre on Thursday to see a sneak preview of Bush's Brain, a documentary about Karl Rove, and speak with the directors Michael Paradies Shoob and Joseph Mealey who were doing Q & A from the audience after the screening. I would have to say that it was a very good documentary that hopefully will reach a wider audience before November. No mention of his first mentor Don Segretti or his Nazi grandfather, but a good overview of his history with dimson and the dirty tricks he has employed in Texas and D.C. The film did mention his role in the outing of Valerie Plame and there was a good interview with Joseph Wilson, though Chris Mathews name was not mentioned (?) as the journalist who received the call from Rove that "Wilson's wife is fair game". Most of the info contained in the film is stuff that most Plame threaders will find familiar, though I had forgotten that Rove was fired from the 1980 Bush campaign for leaking dirt about a fellow campaigner he didn't like...to Robert Novak!

Once the movie ended, they started taking questions from the audience by raised hand. I was the third person called and at that point no one had asked about Plame. So when I was called I said, "I want to ask you both a question regarding Karl Rove's involvement with the outing of Valerie Plame. In his book Worse Than Watergate, John Dean believes that during the time that Ashcroft recused himself and Fitzgerald took over, a cooperative witness may have come forward. And as we have seen this week when Tim Russert was questioned, it was not about Karl Rove but was focused on a call from Scooter Libby. My question is do you think Karl Rove is the kind of person who would rat out the Vice President's office just to save his own ass?"

The end of my question got a lot of laughs from the audience and Shoob's response only added to the laughter when he said, "Well I think we established that fact pretty well in our film that he's exactly that kind of person". But Mealey realized the serious aspect of my question and replied that while Rove was definitely involved in spreading the story of Valerie Plame, he did not believe he was the original source of the leak, that it obviously went much higher up the ladder than Rove. But they didn't have any more info on it than I did, and Mealey ended his reply by stating that we'll just have to see how the grand jury plays itself out.

So I didn't learn anything new, but I did think it got the audience thinking. Two more people asked the directors about Plame, one just made a statement condemning it as treason, another asked them why the media wasn't focusing on it more. There was a party in the courtyard outside the theatre and I spoke with a few people who thanked me for asking an important question, so I tried to steer them in the direction of the Plame threads at DU. I was able to briefly shake Joseph Measley's hand, but he was surrounded by aides and producer-types so I didn't get to ask any follow-up questions. But it was a great night, I was glad to be part of it.

I'm glad to be back here! I want to catch up on all the new posts dealing with Plame and Edmonds. I'll be working on a prose American Judas that will probably be a 4 part series if I condense it right, hopefully I will complete that this week. Hopefully this time, the mods will put it on the home page.

[shraby]

178. Fire Paul Wolfowitz

October 9, 2001

In case you have not noticed, Don, your deputy at the Pentagon, Paul Wolfowitz, has promoted himself and is now the Defense Secretary, and you are his deputy. We still see you quoted here and there, but Paul has already wrested policymaking from your hands and is making it himself. It is almost as if you have become his press secretary. He was bored with Afghanistan and Osama bin Laden long before the strikes began Sunday, as he is maniacally determined to cut to the chase, “finishing the war against Saddam Hussein,” as his many followers in the pundit community put it.

Do you realize how much more difficult it is for President Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell to hold together the coalition of the international community in the fight against terrorism when the Islamic world every day reads in the public prints or sees television commentary about how Iraq is next on the list? Do you realize that Wolfowitz, and his pal Richard Perle who chairs your Defense Policy Board, have been calling all their friends in the press corps, urging them to beat the drums for war with Iraq? Perle actually signed the “famous” letter of 41 drafted by Bill Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard, who is Perle’s mouthpiece in Washington. (Bill Safire of the NYTimes is of course Perle’s mouthpiece in New York.) It is incomprehensible to me that you would allow Perle to remain at that post, where he is permitted to read all the most sensitive secret traffic flowing through the Pentagon. Not that he wouldn’t see it anyway, courtesy of Wolfowitz, but how brazen can he be and get away with it. The only thing I can conclude, Don, is that you have become so addicted to these monkeys over the years that you can’t get them off your back.

(snip)

Here is a column by Gordon Prather, which is about what you should really be worrying. There are no nukes in Iraq. There are in Pakistan. If Bush gives the world the finger and turns on Iraq, there is no way the Pakistani government will survive, and Osama will have the Islamic bomb. Wolfowitz should be fired. He is a menace and one of the most dangerous men in the world as long as you let him play Defense Secretary. HE MUST BE FIRED!!

<http://www.wanniski.com/showarticle.asp?articleid=1668>

Note the date on this article and the last paragraph. I see Wolfowitz is still bungling everything. Why aren't these people investigated as spies? All accounts I've read indicate Perle, Wolfowitz, etal are foreign agents.

On edit, unless we are to assume that congress exists in a vacuum, they know all of this. I have come to the conclusion that congress is complicit in the take-over of our government by this cabal. Congress has become part of the problem.

[H2O Man]

186. Many years ago

when I got started, an older associate pointed out that republicans often have a "lightening rod" in order to distract from much that happens beneath the surface. Rumsfeld is certainly responsible for a tremendous amount of what has occured in his department (and others); still, Wolfowitz is almost ignored because Rumsfeld attracts and absorbs so much negative attention. (For a moment, suspend your moral compass, and just consider how good he is at doing that!) I believe that Wolfowitz could not do the treacherous things he does, without Rumsfeld absorbing and distracting attention.

[H2O Man]

185. Wow!!! Intense!!!

Very good! I'm guessing that you made a lot of people think in a different way about this subject. I've been looking through a number of different sites, including a couple right-wing sites. If you folks look through, you may notice Mr. Water Man is manifest in some other forms, from steam to ice, but he's there! (grin) I think it's important to take this information, and spread it far and wide.

[RebelYell]

188. RP - do you know when it will be officially released?

I would be interested in seeing it, although I doubt it will come to my one cow town.

[robertpaulsen]

190. I think I remember Mealey saying it would be in two weeks.

It will be very limited release. But they are already taking orders for the DVD.

http://www.bushsbrain.net/

[robertpaulsen]

192. Recent drug busts in the Middle East.

Taking Pallas' advice on pursuing Sibel Edmonds view that the 9/11 cover-up was tied to the drug/arms trade, I googled for recent drug busts in the Middle East. I'll google for Asia later and we'll see if any names or organizations ring a bell.

Navy Makes Persian Gulf Drug Bust

CBS/AP) The Navy has seized a boat carrying nearly two tons of hashish in the Persian Gulf, U.S. officials said Friday, in what could be some of the first hard evidence of al Qaeda links to drug smuggling.

The guided missile destroyer USS Decatur intercepted the 40-foot boat on Monday. Aboard were a dozen men, three of them believed to have al Qaeda connections, and 3,780 pounds of hashish, the Navy said Friday.

"This is the first empirical evidence I've seen that conclusively links al Qaeda with the drug trade," said Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert at RAND, a think tank that often does work for the Pentagon.

The cargo is a possible sign bin Laden is using drugs to finance his war against America, reports CBS News Correspondent David Martin.

The Decatur seized the boat, a wooden vessel called a dhow, near the Straits of Hormuz, a narrow part of the Persian Gulf where it opens into the Arabian Sea. The area is a known smuggling route for al Qaeda, the Navy said.

The drugs are worth between $8 million and $10 million, the Navy said.

Military officials would not say Friday why they believed the boat, its cargo and some of its crew were linked to Osama bin Laden's terrorist network. The boat remained under the Decatur's control and it had not been determined what to do with the men on board, the Navy said.

Terrorism experts and government officials long have said they believe that al Qaeda makes money through criminal enterprises including the drug trade. A United Nations panel reported last month, for example, that al Qaeda had financed some of its operations through drug trafficking.

Before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, bin Laden had been sheltered in Afghanistan by the Taliban, which had clear links to the heroin trade through Afghanistan's huge opium poppy crops. Smaller groups linked to al Qaeda, such as Ansar al-Islam in Iraq and Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, also have been accused of involvement in the drug trade.

But Hoffman said Monday's seizure was the first indication that al Qaeda was smuggling hashish, a drug made from the resin of marijuana plants that has a long history in the Middle East.

Smuggling drugs is attractive to al Qaeda because of the huge profit margins involved, said Jimmy Gurule, a former Treasury Department official involved in tracking terrorist financing.

"One of the things we learned over the past two years about al Qaeda is it's a very adaptable organization with respect not only to its terrorist activities but also its mechanisms for raising money," said Gurule, now a law professor at Notre Dame. "This isn't something that is a surprise, but it's something we should be prepared to address."

It's impossible to tell how deeply al Qaeda is involved in the drug trade, Hoffman said, because al Qaeda has become expert at hiding its money trail.

"Hardly anyone has a good handle on their finances," he said.

Congressional investigators said last week that authorities at both the Treasury and Justice departments were struggling to get a grip on how terrorists may be using alternative means - such as trafficking in gold and diamonds or drugs - to raise and move financial assets.

Terrorist financiers have been looking for ways to move and conceal money as governments in the United States and abroad have taken steps to prevent them from using the traditional banking system.

The Decatur is part of the Navy's effort to crack down on smuggling of drugs, weapons, oil and terrorists in the Persian Gulf.

The U.S. military also plans to sponsor a multinational exercise in the Arabian Sea next month to practice seizing a merchant ship carrying weapons of mass destruction. The scenario mimics the seizure of a shipment of Scud missiles from North Korea last year, which the U.S. eventually had to release to the buyer, Yemen.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/19/terror/main589500.shtml

Israeli ex-minister in drugs bust

A former Israeli minister has been arrested on attempted drug trafficking charges.
Dutch police say 25,000 ecstasy tablets were found in a package which Gonen Segev is alleged to have stowed in a locker at Amsterdam's Schiphol airport.

Mr Segev is alleged to have tried to use a diplomatic passport with a falsified date in it to avoid the airport security checks.

Mr Segev, who denies the charges, was energy minister under Yitzhak Rabin.

His lawyer is quoted by the AP news agency as saying a friend had asked Mr Segev, a 48 year-old doctor, to take a gift of chocolates back to Israel.

Israeli police spokesman Gil Kleiman said they had been investigating Mr Segev and the two other people arrested with him for some time.

"On two different occasions he arrived at the airport in Holland," he said.

"On both occasions there was suspicion he had in possession illegal chemical substances.

"He was asked to open his bag, he showed a diplomatic passport with an invalid date. He refused to open the bag. In both cases he left the airport."

Mr Segev is reported to have placed the suspicious bag in a locker in Schiphol Airport, before continuing onto his flight to Israel.

He was arrested in Israel once the Dutch authorities had confirmed the bag contained the thousands of ecstasy tablets.

Mr Segev was remanded in custody for a week when he appeared on Thursday at a Tel Aviv magistrates court.

Israeli police reportedly keeps an officer permanently in the Netherlands due to attempts by Israeli drug rings to smuggle narcotics from Western Europe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3652475.stm

Not sure if these events are connected, or if anything is close to what Sibel Edmonds is talking about. But I'll keep searching.

[kohodog]

193. PKK, Perle...just did a google search and need help with this one

This is off the drug connection, but I found it interesting (though long).

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1324

Richard Perle keeps popping up, and I hope this isn't a red herring, but somehow I think this plays in to our discussions. Please let me know if I'm off base and this is irrelevant.

[robertpaulsen]

195. Good Seymour Hersh article.

May not relate directly with the drug trade, but it definitely goes to the reason for arms trade. It proves that Israel/US is not interested in stability, just the opposite, it is destabilization in the Middle East that is more profitable.

Reminds me of a post about 10 threads back where someone pointed out that Halliburton has a contract to put out oil fires in Iraq. In other words, every time the insurgents blow up an oil well or pipeline, Halliburton makes money. Real big incentive for creating a stable environment there. And Israel arming the Kurds is just another part of the same sick system.

[Pallas180]

201. Nothing to do with our goal but interesting politically - Israel

in Kurdistan is doing exactly what US is doing in America...

1)gaining a foothold to operate from
2)helping the Kurds keep their oil
3)infiltrating a Kurdish army of 75,000 and teaching them,,just as
America did with the mujaheedin..
4)obtaining a defense/attack area against Syrria and Iran

5) and finally, by Israel being in NOrthern Iraq, with troops disguised as Kurds, they are probably the only country responding to *ushits cries for help/troops which fell on Europe's deaf ears.

[Pallas180]

197. ROBERTPAULSEN-welcome back :) you're right on as usual-

were those drug busts in the time period Edmonds was talking about
around April 01?

She seemed to have been assigned to re-reading messages from
April 01 to 9/11 and past.

Hmmm - maybe we should re-read exactly what she said inthe long
interview.

I remember the scud missiles - I wonder if Halliburton has any
components in scud missiles-

Halliburton + scud missiles LOL

and Holland - interesting.

Betcha Switzerland for the money laundering.

[Pallas180]

198. Now I remember something about bin Laden having Tanzanite mines

a fairly new gemstone - fairly expensive...a purplish blue...

I remember hearing not to buy them because he had the mines..and
jewelers had to affirm the stones were not from Tanzania.

hmmmm

Tanzania + bin laden

Tanzania + Khan ?

[robertpaulsen]

256. Pallas, I found the bin Laden/Tanzania gemstone link! And Dawood Ibrahim!

This occurred in the aftermath of 9/11:

Scores Held in EA Crackdown on Terror
A JOINT REPORT
THE EASTAFRICAN
WITH THE search for terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden's links in East Africa intensifying, investigators in Uganda are holding seven Pakistanis and one Zambian, while arrests have also been reported in Tanzania.

Kenyan police too have been searching for terrorist suspects, but no arrests had been reported by Saturday.

Senior security sources in Kampala involved in the investigations into bin Laden's activities, especially after the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US, told The EastAfrican that the suspects were arrested at Entebbe Airport and were being held in Kampala. The investigators are also looking for some Ugandan suspects.

Sources said that most of the arrests in Tanzania were made in Dar es Salaam, with a few in Morogoro, Mwanza and Arusha, particularly in connection with businesses allegedly linked to bin Laden.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is said to have increased its support to various security operations in the region. The arrests are part of a much larger operation, it was learnt.

Ugandan investigators said they had intensified their surveillance of key installations, including tall buildings in Kampala and the international airport at Entebbe. Foreign embassies in Kampala have been put on full alert. The investigators have also been monitoring the activities of non-governmental Muslim organisations.

In particular, investigators are said to be interested in a radical sect whose main mosques in Kampala are on Old Katwe Road and near Nakasero market. The sect is an offshoot of the Tabliq sect.

Earlier, attention had been focused on the radical Tabliq sect itself, some of whose members were arrested in connection with urban terrorism and insurgency in western Uganda two years ago.

Last week's arrests were spearheaded by Uganda's Joint Anti-Terrorism Taskforce (JATT), which brings together several security agencies, including the Chieftaincy of Military Intelligence, the Internal Security Organisation, the External Security Organisation, the Special Branch and the Criminal Investigations Department of the police force.

Among the top suspects being sought is a Ugandan dissident, Sheikh Jamil Mukulu, who has lived in exile for half a decade. He is believed by Ugandan intelligence to be the main link to bin Laden's Al Qaeda network in East Africa. Uganda has reportedly sought help from security agencies in neighbouring countries to track down Sheikh Mukulu and his network.

The suspects arrested at Entebbe last week were reportedly travelling from Rwanda and were passing through Kampala before proceeding to Europe. Further investigations in Rwanda are going on, sources added.

It was not immediately clear if the arrests were also related to travel warnings issued to Americans in Rwanda on September 19, which stated that insurgents were active in northern Rwanda and could harm them. But the FBI was said to be 'watching the situation' with Rwandan security closely.

While the Pakistanis arrested claimed they were businessmen interested in the tea sector, suspicion was raised by the fact that two of them had earlier claimed to be from the United Arab Emirates. It was also realised from their passports that the suspects were travelling out of Pakistan for the first time.

Sources said some local businessmen had also been questioned. Investigators are searching for possible links between those detained, terrorists and other business people in the country, apparently targeting those of Arab origin.

"We have been interrogating the eight suspects for three days. We are holding them until we conclude the interrogation," said a security source on Friday.

The FBI and Uganda believe that terrorists who have been detonating bombs in Kampala since 1998 were trained in Pakistan using a network in Sudan.

Earlier last week, security agents went to the offices of the registrar of companies for the files of a company called Taba Investments, which was suspected to be fronting for bin Laden in the region. As investigations continued, The EastAfrican learnt on Friday that the company was actually called Taaba Investments and was unlikely to be connected to bin Laden.

JATT officials said they would continue to monitor individuals and groups linked to past terrorist attacks in Uganda.
In Tanzania, police and agents of America's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) have arrested and interrogated a number of people in connection with terrorism acts committed in USA, but police declined to give details of the arrests. A police officer in Zanzibar however said he had 25 names of suspected followers of bin Laden belonging to the opposition Civic United Front (CUF) party.

The Isles police commissioner, Mr Khalid Iddi, said in Dar es Salaam that police were questioning the 25 CUF members. He said those arrested include a retired army officer involved in training CUF youths allegedly to destabilise Zanzibar. Police suspect that he received funding from an organisation in Yemen to conduct terrorist activities in Tanzania. Zanzibar is believed to be one of the areas with many of bin Laden's accomplices in East Africa, through his Yemeni connections.

A number of trading companies in Tanzania are being investigated by state organs and the FBI in connection with bin Laden's business interests.

In Tanzania, bin Laden is suspected to have interests in trading, farming and gemstone dealing, especially in diamonds, tanzanite and gold. The Tanzania police has given the FBI a list of some 60 names, but no nationalities have been revealed.

The EastAfrican has learnt that at least three major oil companies in Dar es Salaam which have trading connections in Sudan, Yemen, Qatar, Iran, Somalia and Saudi Arabia are under investigation. There are over 30 oil-marketing companies in Tanzania, many with links to the Middle East.

Several more companies with major partners in Pakistan, Indonesia and India are also being investigated. They are suspected of having business links with Arab and Asian trading companies close to bin Laden. The companies are in general trade, farming and gemstones.

Police did not reveal the names of companies and individuals being investigated, but a source said "many companies have been interrogated and more will be interrogated." They have not announced any arrest of suspected terrorists or accomplices or linked directly to Osama's gruesome terrorist actions in the USA or elsewhere.

In Mwanza, a Lebanese man involved in the gemstones business was on September 24 arrested and interrogated. Mwanza is the centre for the diamond and gold black market. The man was found with three passports — from Lebanon, Pakistan and the UK. His passports were impounded, but he was released and ordered to remain in the country until investigators cleared him.

Tanzania is among the countries believed to harbour fundamentalist supporters of bin Laden. It is believed that bin Laden's followers from his Sudanese cell are based in Morogoro town, with other cells in Dar es Salaam and Zanzibar.

Police in Dar are also investigating companies that have links with the most wanted drug dealer in India, Dawood Ibrahim, who is alleged to have associations with bin Laden. Members of the local Asian community say Dawood has business partners in Dar. In 1996, he sneaked into Tanzania but left when state organs started hunting him down.

Sources said that Tanzania police and FBI agents are also investigating remittances of money into Tanzania from Iran, Pakistan, India and Somalia to establish the authenticity of the transfers and the nature of the business deals involved. It is suspected that some businessmen are involved in money laundering.

Police investigations are going on at the Coast and in Mwanza, Tanga, Lindi and Mtwara regions, where many investors from Iran, Pakistan, India and Afghanistan have acquired land for farming and established Islamic schools.

Many businessmen from those countries have been on the black list of the Immigration department and under close surveillance.

Some foreigners suspected of having links with terrorist networks are alleged to have entered Tanzania as donors, particularly for building mosques in Dar es Salaam. A number of Islamic agencies and political parties with an Islamic orientation have been earmarked for interrogation, the police source said.

Sources in Arusha say a businessman of Asian origin has been interrogated at length in connection with the September 11 incidents in the US. He is alleged to have left the US two days before the hijackings and travelled to Arusha.

The Tanzania police spokesman, Mr Aden Mwamunyange, was unavailable for comment last week and was said to be attending meetings with other senior police officers on security matters, including the ongoing scrutiny of the terrorism suspects.

http://www.nationaudio.com/News/EastAfrican/08102001/Regional/Regional2.html


So, now we have some more leads. Let's look into Sheikh Jamil Mukulu and Civic United Front to see what we can find.

[Pallas180]

283. RP - do you fully realize how many countries they are talking

about just in Africa?

OBL is entrenched all over the world, but his mistake is being openly
anarchist let's say, while Carlyle entrenched all over the world,
stealthily but seemingly corporately...so if you're running a crime
organization even if it is corporate - it's still crime, but more
acceptable because it's wearing the right clothing/covering so to speak.

The massiveness of both organizations and the amount of infiltration
world-wide is discouraging.

[robertpaulsen]

247. Pallas, that Edmonds interview has all the clues, belongs on every thread!

I keep going back to certain quotes, but I think because she is hyper-aware of the gag order Ashcroft put on her, she made every word count.

We need to have the entire transcript accessible on every thread for reference in our search for the truth. Every sentence contains clues to the questions why, where, who, when and how.

[Pallas180]

285. OK RP, will do.

:toast:

[robertpaulsen]

194. A name to remember in our research: Dawood Ibrahim.

DAWOOD IBRAHIM: The Global Terrorist
by B.Raman

Shortly after the commission of the terrorist strikes in the US on September 11, 2001, US President George Bush signed Executive Order (EO) No.13224 on September23, 2001, declaring a national emergency to deal with terrorist threats to the USA.He said in his EO: " I also find that because of the pervasiveness and expansiveness of the financial foundation of foreign terrorists, financial sanctions may be appropriate for those foreign persons that support or otherwise associate with these foreign terrorists. I also find that a need exists for further consultation and cooperation with, and sharing of information by, United States and foreign financial institutions as an additional tool to enable the United States to combat the financing of terrorism."

2.The annual report on the Patterns of Global Terrorism during 2001 submitted to the US Congress in May, 2002, by Gen.(retd) Colin Powell, US Secretary of State, described the significance of this EO as follows: "EO 13224 enables the US Government to block designees' assets in any financial institution in the US or held by any US person. It also expands US Government authority to permit the designation of individuals and organisations that provide support or financial or other services to or associate with, designated terrorists. EO 13224 designations allowed the US Government, as well as coalition partners acting in concert, to block tens of millions of dollars intended to bankroll the murderous activities of Al Qaida and other terrorist groups."

3.Under this EO, the US Government has so far designated 322 individuals of different nationalities and organizations as terrorists and terrorist supporters and frozen over $136.8 million in terrorist assets by acting in concert with other member-nations of the UN.Apart from terrorist organisations such as the Al Qaeda, the Jemaah Islamiya, the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HUM), the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LET), the Jaish-e-Mohammad (JEM) etc which have been so designated under this EO, a number of individual terrorists wanted for acts of terrorism in different countries have also been so designated. Important amongst them are Osama bin Laden, his No 2 Ayman Al-Zawahiri and other leaders of the Al Qaeda.

4. While the US Government has designated the HUM, the LET and the JEM as Foreign Terrorist Organisations, none of their leaders has so far been designated as global terrorists. The only individuals living openly in Pakistan who had been brought under the purview of this EO till October 15, 2003, were Sultan Bashir-ud-din.Mahmood, Abdul Majeed and Mahammed Tufail, who were suspected of trying to help bin Laden in the clandestine acquisition of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). They were so designated on December 20, 2001, and their bank accounts, wherever found, were ordered to be frozen.

5. Dawood Ibrahim, the mafia leader- cum- terrorist living in Pakistan since the 1990s, became yet another individual terrorist leader living in Pakistan to be brought under the purview of this EO on October 16, 2003, when the US Department of Treasury announced that it was designating him as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist under Executive Order 13224 and that it would be requesting the UN to so list him as well. The designation would freeze any assets belonging to Dawood within the U.S. and prohibit transactions with U.S. nationals. The UN listing will require that all UN Membe-States take similar actions.

6."This designation signals our commitment to identifying and attacking the financial ties between the criminal underworld and terrorism,” stated Juan Zarate, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Terrorist Financing and Financial Crimes. “We are calling on the international community to stop the flow of dirty money that kills. For the Ibrahim syndicate, the business of terrorism forms part of their larger criminal enterprise, which must be dismantled."

7. A press release of the US Department said: "Dawood Ibrahim, an Indian crime lord, has found common cause with Al Qaida, sharing his smuggling routes with the terror syndicate and funding attacks by Islamic extremists aimed at destabilizing the Indian government. He is wanted in India for the 1993 Bombay Exchange bombings and is known to have financed the activities of Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (Army of the Righteous), a group designated by the United States in October 2001 and banned by the Pakistani Government -- who also froze their assets -- in January 2002. "

8. A fact sheet attached to the press release said: "Ibrahim's syndicate is involved in large-scale shipments of narcotics in the UK and Western Europe. The syndicate's smuggling routes from South Asia, the Middle East and Africa are shared with Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist network. Successful routes established over recent years by Ibrahim's syndicate have been subsequently utilised by bin Laden. A financial arrangement was reportedly brokered to facilitate the latter's usage of these routes. In the late 1990s, Ibrahim travelled in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban."

9. It added: "Ibrahim's syndicate has consistently aimed to destabilise the Indian Government through inciting riots, acts of terrorism and civil disobedience. He is currently wanted by India for the March 12,1993, Bombay Exchange bombings, which killed hundreds of Indians and injured over a thousand more."

10. It also said: "Information from as recent as Fall 2002, indicates that Ibrahim has financially supported Islamic militant groups working against India, such as Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LET). For example, this information indicates that Ibrahim has been helping finance increasing attacks in Gujarat by LET. "

11. The statement and the attached fact sheet do not say how the US Government came to know of Dawood's links with the Al Qaeda, bin Laden and the LET. However, it needs to be noted that last week the US Government also designated the Al Akhtar Trust, a supposedly charity organisation based in Pakistan founded by the JEM, for purposes of freezing its accounts under this EO. It described the Al Akhtar Trust as the successor organisation to the Al Rashid Trust, which had earlier been brought under the purview of this EO.

12. The Treasury Department statement indicated that it suspected the Al Akhtar Trust of funding jihadi terrorist activities not only in Pakistan and Afghanistan, but also in Iraq. Since February last, I have been drawing attention to reports that the HUM and the LET have been sending small numbers of their cadres to Iraq to participate in a jihad against the US troops there and that the LET has been collecting funds in Pakistan for assisting the families of its "martyrs" in Iraq.The statement reveals that the JEM has also been indulging in activities in support of the jihad in Iraq through the Al Akhtar Trust.

13.The fact sheet attached by the US Treasury Department to the order relating to the Trust says as follows at two places: "During a custodial interview in early 2003, a senior Al Qaida detainee related that AL AKHTAR TRUST and Al-Rashid Trust were the primary relief agencies that Al Qaida used to move supplies into Qandahar, Afghanistan. " Again it says: "During a custodial interview in mid-April 2003, a senior Al Qaida detainee stated that Al-Rashid Trust and Al AKHTAR TRUST provided donations to Al Qaida."

14. The USA's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) officers in Pakistan had got hold of two senior Al Qaeda operatives during this period---Khalid Sheikh Mohammad,who is suspected to be the mastermind behind the 9/11 terrorist strikes in the USA and who was caught in Rawalpindi in March last, and Walid bin Attash, the principal Al Qaeda suspect in the case relating to the bombing of the US naval ship USS Cole in Aden in October, 2000, who was caught in Karachi in April last.

15. The interrogation of Walid bin Attash by the FBI had not yet started by mid-April. It would, therefore, be reasonable to infer that the action against the Al Akhtar Trust was probably based on information provided by Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. Since the action against Dawood followed two days after the action against the Trust, there is a strong possibility that the information obtained during the same interrogation about his links with the Al Qaeda triggered off the action of the Treasury Department.

16.What next? The designation of Dawood as a global terrorist does not automatically freeze his bank accounts and the accounts of the organisations with which he is associated. It only directs all banks and other financial institutions in the US to identify such accounts and freeze them. How effective is the follow-up action depends on how effective is the identification of the accounts.

17. The Treasury Department order does not give all the aliases of Dawood. It names him as Dawood Ibrahim, also known as Dawood Ebrahim, also known as Sheikh Dawood Hassan. Only all accounts held in these names will be affected by this order. If he has been holding accounts under other names, those would not be affected till identified to be his.

18. The UN Security Council, in its capacity as the monitor of the implementation of its Resolution No.1373 calling for action against terrorism by member-nations, would now be moved by the US to issue instructions to all member-nations, including Pakistan, to freeze the accounts of Dawood held under these three names.

19. Whenever such instructions were issued by the UNSC in the past, the Government of Pakistan circumvented them by alerting organisations and individual terrorist leaders named by the EO and the UN about the impending freezing of their accounts, thereby enabling them to withdraw the bulk of the balance to their credit or transfer it to other accounts under different names.

20.This has been repeatedly happening since January last year. As a result, when the accounts were finally frozen, they were found to contain paltry amounts.

21.The last one year has also seen a tremendous increase in the remittance of funds from overseas bank accounts to accounts in Pakistan. The total remittances during this period were estimated at US $ four billion. The Pakistani authorities attributed this increase to the fact that Pakistanis living abroad have started using normal banking channels for their remittances due to fears that the use of the informal hawala channels as in the past might attract the suspicion of the FBI. Even if this explanation is true, it could account for the transfer of only about US $ 1.5 billion from overseas accounts to accounts in Pakistan.

22. Following suspicion that the steep increase in the remittances flowing into Pakistan might be due to the transfer of the money held overseas by the so-called Saudi charity organisations associated with terrorism to accounts in Pakistan and the use of new accounts in Pakistan by organisations based in Saudi Arabia for funding terrorism, the FBI is reported to be closely monitoring all remittances of over US $ 1,000 to accounts in Pakistan. The Washington correspondent of the "News", the Pakistani daily newspaper, has reported (October 1, 2003) that the Pakistani authorities have agreed to a request from the US to report to the FBI details of all such remittances.

23. The action taken by the Pakistani authorities against all suspected bank accounts in Pakistan continues to be an eye-wash. On June 14,2003, Shaukat Aziz, Pakistan's Finance Minister, placed on the table of the National Assembly a statement giving details of the accounts frozen by the authorities. In the statement figured three accounts in Peshawar banks held in the name of bin Laden and one in the name of his No.2 Ayman Al-Zawahiri (name of the branch not given). Of the three accounts of bin Laden, two were joint accounts held by him along with others and one was an account only in his name. The three bin Laden accounts, according to the statement, had balances of only US $ 306, US $ 342 and US $ 1585 and the account of Al-Zawahiri had a balance of US $ five only.

24.. The statement contained a remark that the account of Al-Zawahiri had remained dormant since 1993. There were no such remarks in respect of the accounts of bin Laden. Hence, they are presumed to have been active. The statement remained silent as to what were the various deposits made in the accounts and withdrawn or transferred from them before they were frozen, who were the beneficiaries etc.

25. According to the same statement, the HUM had three accounts with balances of US $ 62, US $ 48 and US $ 35. The JEM had one account with US $ 14.

26.Over the years, Pakistan, its military dictator Gen.Pervez Musharraf and its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) have fine-tuned the art of hoodwinking international community and particularly the US Administration-- whether it be in respect of its clandestine WMD assistance to North Korea and Iran, its sponsorship of cross-border terrorism into India and Afghanistan or evasion of action under the UNSCR No.1373 against terrorists and other organisations.

27. Unless India takes advantage of the slight opening provided by the US designation of Dawood as a global terrorist and acts proactively and aggressively through the UN monitoring mechanism and through bilateral channels to ensure that Pakistan does not again wriggle out of its obligations under the UNSC Resolution 1373, we will find history repeating itself.

28. In my paper No.515 of September 1, 2002, ( "INDIA'S NATIONAL SECURITY MANAGEMENT & 9/11") available at www.saag.org, I wrote as follows: "After 9/11, the purely legalistic approach to the question of blocking terrorist funding has given way to a more pragmatic approach, with actions now being taken by the international community against suspected terrorist accounts even on the basis of strong suspicion instead of waiting, as in the past, till legally sustainable evidence was forthcoming. This should have been taken advantage of by us by moving for the freezing of the bank accounts of Dawood Ibrahim and other members of his mafia group wherever they are held--whether in Pakistan, the UAE, South Africa, Nepal, Thailand or elsewhere. Our plea for action could have been justified on the basis of the strong evidence at our disposal regarding their involvement in the Mumbai blasts of March,1993."

29. In a paper (available at www.saag.org) presented at a panel discussion on Terrorism in the Indian sub-continent , organized by the US-India Political Action Committee and the US-India Institute for Strategic Policy at Washington DC on July 16, 2003, I had stated as follows: " About 400 survivors of the 500-strong hardcore of Al Qaeda had crossed over into Pakistan from Afghanistan giving a slip to the US security forces in the beginning of last year. Of these, about 75 are estimated to have since moved over to Yemen and Saudi Arabia and 30 are estimated to have crossed over into Iran via Pakistan’s Balochistan. Of the remaining, about 75 took shelter in Karachi and 220 in Punjab, the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP), Balochistan, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), and the Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir (POK). Of the 75, who took shelter in Karachi, about 50 are still holed up in various hide-outs there with the assistance of their Pakistani sympathizers and the mafia gang led by Dawood Ibrahim, who is wanted by the Indian authorities for prosecution in connection with the Mumbai (Bombay) blasts of March,1993, a precursor of mass-casualty or catastrophic terrorism."

30. India should act on the US order and move against Pakistan before it is too late.

31. Annexed is an extract from a paper on terrorism and transnational crime presented by me at a meeting of a working group on this subject held in Shanghai, China, in May last year. "Herald", the monthly journal of the prestigious "Dawn" group, has since come out (August,2003) with more details on the presence of Dawood in Pakistan and his activities there.

(The writer is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai, and, Convenor, Observer Research Foundation (ORF), Chennai Chapter. E-Mail: [email protected] )

ANNEXURE

THE DAWOOD IBRAHIM GANG

Before March 1993, the Dawood Ibrahim group, which indulges in large-scale smuggling, money-laundering and other criminal activities, was operating from Dubai. In March 1993, this group organised at the instance of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of Pakistan a series of explosions directed at important economic targets in Mumbai---such as the local stock exchange, which is the biggest in India, a local hotel for tourists run by the Air India etc.

Subsequent investigation brought out that the perpetrators of these acts of terrorism, all Indian nationals, had been recruited, at the instance of the ISI, by Dawood Ibrahim in Mumbai, taken to Pakistan via Dubai for training in the use of arms and ammunition and explosives and then sent back to Mumbai via Dubai. The Pakistani Consulate in Dubai issued them plain paper visas so that their passports did not carry any entries of their visit to Pakistan for training. However, Indian investigators managed to get xerox copies of the passenger manifests of the flights by which they went to Pakistan via Dubai for training. After they returned to Mumbai from Pakistan after the training, the explosives and other arms and ammunition required by them for organising the terrorist attacks were sent by the ISI by boat with the help of Dawood Ibrahim and clandestinely landed on the Western coast of India.

After carrying out the explosions, the perpetrators escaped to Pakistan, some via Dubai and some via Kathmandu, and were given sanctuary in Karachi by the ISI. When the Govt. of India took up with the Dubai authorities the question of the involvement of Dawood Ibrahim, the Dubai authorities pressured him to leave their territory. He took shelter in Karachi and has been living there since then along with some of the perpetrators, who have been given Pakistani passports under different names. Repeated requests by the Govt. of India to Islamabad for arresting and extraditing/deporting them to India have been turned down by Pakistan, which denies their presence in Pakistani territory. Red-cornered notices of the INTERPOL for their arrest have not been honoured by Pakistan.

This matter was again taken up by the Govt. of India with President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan when he visited India in July last. He denied their presence in Pakistani territory. Subsequently, "Newsline", a presitigious Pakistani monthly, in its issue for September, 2001, carried a detailed article on their presence and activities in Karachi. The Pakistani media reported that the journalist who wrote this article (Ghulam Hasnain) was detained and harassed by the Pakistani authorities.

The article stated as follows:" Dawood Ibrahim and his team, Mumbai's notorious underworld clan, including his right hand man Chota Shakeel and Jamal Memon, are on India's most wanted list for a series of bomb blasts in Mumbai and other criminal activities. After the 1993 Mumbai bomb blasts, the gang have made Karachi their new home and operating base. Living under fake names and IDs (identities), and given protection by government agencies, they have built up their underworld operations in Karachi employing local talent like Shoaib and Bholoo.

" In Pakistan, Dawood managed to establish another huge empire, comprising both legitimate and illegitimate businesses. In fact, the last few years have witnessed Dawood emerge as the don of Karachi. Dawood and his men have made heavy investments in prime properties in Karachi and Islamabad and are major players in the Karachi bourse and in the parallel credit system business--hundi. Dawood is also said to have rescued Pakistan's Central Bank, which was in crisis at one point, by providing a huge dollar loan. His businesses include gold and drug smuggling. The gang is also allegedly heavily involved in (cricket) match-fixing. "

The article added: " Not only have the Pakistani authorities turned a blind eye to the gang's activities within Pakistan, but many in the corridors of power have partaken of Dawood's hospitality.....He is said to have the protection of assorted intelligence agencies. In fact, Dawood and his men move around the city guarded by heavy escorts of armed men in civies believed to be personnel of a top Pakistani security agency. A number of Government undercover agents, who came into contact with Dawood because of their official duties, are now, in fact, working for him. Nearly all the men, who surround him for security reasons, are either retired or serving officers, claims an MQM (Muttahida Qaumi Movement) activist."

The article further said: " According to informed sources, Dawood is Pakistan's number one espionage operative. His men in Mumbai help him get whatever information he needs for Pakistan. Rumour has it that sometimes his men in Karachi accompany Pakistani intelligence agents to the airports to scan arriving passengers and identify RAW (Indian external intelligence) agents." (End of citation from the article)

Though the laws of Pakistan do not provide for "economic citizenships", the Pakistan Government informally provides them to international criminals and terrorists, who maintain a minimum dollar deposit in Pakistani banks and help the Government. Dawood Ibrahim, who had reportedly lent money to Pakistan in the past for the clandestine procurement of missiles and connected technology from China and North Korea, has been given informal "economic citizenship" in order to protect him from the arms of the Indian law and provided with a Pakistani passport under a different name .

After the terrorist attack on the Indian Parliament on December 13, 2001, the Govt. of India has given to Pakistan a list of 20 terrorists, wanted for trial in India, who have been given sanctuary in Pakistan. The list includes the names of Dawood Ibrahim and other members of his mafia group wanted for trial in connection with the explosions in Mumbai in March 1993 and other crimes. Pakistan continues to take up the stand that they are not in its territory.

It is alleged that Dawood Ibrahim played an active role in organising the recent referendum campaign of Musharraf in Karachi and in bringing voters to the polling booths in trucks to vote for Musharraf. ( End of extract)

http://www.saag.org/papers9/paper818.html

Remember that Dawood Ibrahim is listed in the unabridged American Judas as a connection between ISI and BCCI:

Right from its inception, the clandestine nuclear and missile projects in Pakistan were treated as a top secret intel op of the ISI to ensure deniability. All payments to the foreign suppliers were made not from the accounts of the Govt of Pakistan, but from private accounts in the BCCI, which collapsed in 1991, and other Dubai and Geneva based banks. These accounts were opened by the Gokul brothers of Geneva, one of whom was jailed for cheating in the UK after the collapse of the BCCI; Shaukat Aziz, Pakistan’s present Finance Minister, who was working in the Gulf for the Citibank in the 1990s; Dawood Ibrahim, the mafia leader who was designated by the US as an intl terrorist in Oct; Dubai-based Pakistani smugglers, and AQ Khan and other trusted Pakistani scientists.(http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/nuclearjihad.html)

Ibrahim is right in the thick of the action that Sibel Edmonds spoke of.

[robertpaulsen]

196. Ibrahim's response to AQ Khan probe: plastic surgery.

Dawood Ibrahim, who is reportedly living in the VIP area of Islamabad under heavy security comparable to senior most generals and ISI chief, has been undergoing plastic surgery to alter his looks ever since October last year when the US declared that he was linked to the money-laundering of Al-Qaeda funds, according to Pak sources based in London.

Khan probe forces Dawood to alter looks surgically

The US Treasury Department has found that he was funnelling funds for Al-Qaeda, Taliban and other terrorist organisations including Lashkar-e-Taiba. It also found that Dawood had struck a deal with Osama bin Laden to use his wide network to acquire funds from various charitable organisations.

The Treasury Department with the approval of the UN declared Dawood, in mid-October last year as a "Specially Designated Global Terrorist".

"Just like in the case of Dr Khan, most in authority in Islamabad thus cannot afford to let Dawood out of the country and made to talk. He has surely been used by the ISI in Afghanistan or has at least enjoyed its benevolence."

Dawood would have also realised that the Americans could ask for fuller inquiry and his interrogation. Islamabad would have then been unable to resist the American pressure as it could that of India's and get away by stating that he was not in Pakistan. An altered appearance could help in again iterating that he had left the country.

This is why the sources said there has been utter secrecy over the surgery. "The rumours have nevertheless persisted although there is no way to confirm."

According to reports he was last seen quite a few months ago at a wedding but since then he has not been spotted in public.

But, according to recent reports Dawood has been more worried for his safety since the start last November of investigations into Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan's selling of nuclear weapons technology and his nexus with the underworld for acquiring N-material and laundering his ill-gotten wealth.

"The report that Dr Khan was in critical condition after a sudden heart attack or even the amended report that he was in very bad health must have made the ever suspicious Dawood even more concerned."

There is one report that like Dr Khan who possibly sent out of Pakistan through his daughter Dina, documents and a taped statement incriminating General including President Musharraf in his proliferation activities to ensure his own safety, Dawood has done the same. He has kept papers with his trusted men outside Pakistan.

The name of Dawood has not so far been mentioned as one of the underworld links of Dr Khan but the fact that Dubai was the main channel for leaking the N-technology and for sending out and receiving material surfaced quite early in the investigations about Dr Khan's activities.

Dawood's network in Dubai is well-known and it is now being said that his set-up with its wide-reach and large number of trusted operatives "came in handy" for the surreptitious proliferation and money-laundering. "It could have possibly won him passage to Pakistan through Dr Khan and his sympathisers in power."

Dawood was, it is alleged, part of the group of people linked with Dr Khan's proliferation and money-laundering activities. It included one known as bullion king, a major player in the Pak Stock and Exchange, a big gold dealer in Dubai and two army officers, a colonel and a major, both of whom were conduits for transfer of N-technology to Libya.

The recent exposure of a Malaysian company that shipped a cargo of N-material to Dubai and specially the arrest of a Pak businessman Aizaz Jafri, alleged to be the frontman for Dr Khan could have alarmed Dawood more. Jafri was the middleman for Khan in the international black market network in the nuclear materials set up by the disgraced scientist.

The chains of hotels and restaurants owned fully or partially by Dr Khan were also managed by Jafri. Notably, Jafri made frequent trips to Dubai when Dawood was there. Intelligence agrees, that Dawood could fear exposure from persons like Jafri and several other businessmen who have been arrested. Worse his links in the ISI would fear too the likelihood of suspicion falling on him, for that would expose them.

Dawood is currently under 24-hour security, albeit for his own safety just like Dr Khan. He would very much wish he disappears with changed appearance rather than be caught in the Khan storm, particularly after hearing that the scientist's health has suddenly deteriorated.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/2004/Feb/17/5983_574935,00430005.htm

Let's see if there's any more dirt we can dig up on this AQ Khan front man I was previously unaware of, Aizaz Jafri.

[shraby]

199. RP.....I found your paper

American Judas here:
<http://mediaprima.com/nv1962/archives/2004/08/>

It's in the Aug. 10, 2004 section.

Couldn't find any thing on Aizaz Jafri.

[shraby]

200. Reading Signals

(snip)

Shaheen-II is a solid-fuelled ballistic missile with a range of 2500 km and is obviously nuclear-capable. No one goes through all kinds of trouble to lob firecrackers at far-flung enemies and wake them from their sleep. This missile was previously known as Hatf which means - you guess it - death. The Shaheen missile programme is under the leadership of Dr Samar Mubarakmand who heads the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission. Unlike the much maligned Dr A Q Khan and his Khan Research Laboratories, Dr Mubarakmand and the PAEC not only keep a low profile but are also not under sanctions. And it is Dr Mubarakmand's team which is the real author of Pakistan's nuclear weaponisation and the 1998 nuclear tests. A Q Khan, the Centrifugist, was a decoy for a long time before he became a scapegoat. Dr Mubarakmand and his team remain in business. The fires in the heart of Mordor's Mount Doom continue to forge deadly metals.

The western press has bought the official line completely - Pakistan's new missile can now strike any part of India. But if different keys are pressed on the targeting keypad China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Tanzania, Turkey, the Central-Asian -stans come into the uncomfortable hot zone, not to mention a small middle-eastern country called Israel.

One would have expected that a regime that was so recently fingered for the worst nuclear proliferation in history would be on its best behaviour. Yet the United States has bent over backwards to oblige Musharraf's domestic political needs. The bomb-loving Pakistani segment takes this to be a tacit nod of Pakistani power to threaten the international community. Here's the bad news - they are right.

And on the same day, China agreed to help Pakistan set up Chashma Nuclear Power Plant Phase 2 (Chasnupp-2) to help Pakistan with its peaceful pursuit of nuclear energy for the betterment of its people. Here's the catch - Pakistan is not a signatory to the NPT, which means no international inspections, which in turn means that no one can really know what the 'spent fuel rods' will be used for. For someone with a nuclear history as Pakistan, expecting them to discard the nuclear waste in an environmentally friendly manner would be wishful thinking. China ought to have learnt from the latest deeds of its other protege, the rotund Mr Kim Jong Il.

(more)
<http://www.paifamily.com/opinion/archives/000455.html>

For what it's worth, this is from The Acorn

[Pallas180]

204. SHRABY-one problem with that info- or is it disinformation like OSP?

nowhere in our searches, I dont think, did we come across the name
of Mubarakmand's name - even as a nuke scientist-but we do have
Khan tied in with all the purchases and companies and Cheney.....

" Dr Mubarakmand's team which is the real author of Pakistan's nuclear weaponisation and the 1998 nuclear tests. A Q Khan, the Centrifugist, was a decoy"

where did he come from - what's his company name - was he with a
university where we wouldnt have seen his name?

and - I don't buy it. :) I think it's disinformation to blur the
trail to cheney and the US.

[shraby]

208. I googled Dr Mubarakmand

and found other info on him, the article from The Acorn is March 11, 2004 so it very well may be disinfo.

I've been reading on bin Laden and also the latest announcement that Zakawri(sp?) to see if I could find anything worth looking into, but didn't find anything.

[robertpaulsen]

245. Check out post 244, shraby.

Ibrahim connected with Jafri.

Jafri connected with Peter Griffin.

Griffin connected with Scomi.

Scomi connected with Cognis (Goldman Sachs)

Cognis connected with Baroid (Halliburton)

Love those serpentine links!

[Pallas180]

203. BINGO - WAHOO RP - I THINK YOU'VE FOUND A MAJOR

ORGANIZATON - you're a wizard..my highest compliment :)

and I agree, we need to start googling Jafri

and the name of the Malaysian company to see if we can tie it into
Cheney/Rumsfeld/Scomi/Cognis/ABB/Halli or any of those.

and also try to find out the names of the hotels invested in -

Carlyle owns Marriots and resorts...look above for the Carlyle site

but something else.... isn't it strange how people connected to this
are having heart attacks ?

[Pallas180]

205. RP - check your DU mail for info on American Judas

:hi:

[robertpaulsen]

244. Thanks Pallas! I found the link to Scomi: Peter Griffin!

Reading more on Dawood Ibrahim and his alliance with AQ Khan frontman Aizaz Jafri, I found this little gem:

The spotlight , it is feared in certain quarters, could at some stage fall on him. Every investigation has led to Dubai. British and French Intelligence officers seized computers from the home of a British businessman named as a central suspect in the network supplying Libya, Iran and North Korea with nuclear equipment. The Guardian revealed that Peter Griffin and his son Paul spoke from Dubai where they have an office denying all involvement. But the fact to note is that they too have an office in Dubai.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/2004/Feb/13/5983_571703,00430005.htm


And what Malaysian company is Griffin connected with?

The Malaysian investigations:
BSA TAHIR, a SRI LANKAN businessman based in DUBAI was a trusted and close
confidante of A. Q. Khan and was actively involved in supplying centrifuge
components for Libya's uranium-enrichment program. BSA TAHIR, who was
involved in the business of SCOMI PRECISION ENGINEERING SDN BHD (SCOPE). He
used the company to produce components for the centrifuge unit for the
uranium enrichment program. However, investigations have revealed that the
components, on their own, cannot form a complete centrifuge unit. In this
context, it has to be noted that SCOPE is a subsidiary of SCOMI GROUP BHD,
i.e. a company involved in the petroleum services industry. As a subsidiary,
SCOPE is also involved in precision engineering services, which involves the
production of components for a variety of equipments including parts for
cars, petroleum and gas. This makes evident that SCOPE could not be labeled
as a company directly involved in nuclear proliferation.

Furthermore, the supply of components by middlemen was carried out in a
discreet manner and involved suppliers from other countries to blur the
sources of the components. Some of the suppliers were believed to be aware
that these components could be for uranium enrichment centrifuges. Generally
these suppliers mostly from Europe were those who had dealings with the
nuclear expert since the 1980s, at a time when PAKISTAN was developing its
nuclear technology. There were a number of individuals and companies which
supplied the components but were unaware of the implications because some of
the components were similar to components used in oil drilling, water
treatment and equipment for several other general use.

D. UNITED KINGDOM
PETER GRIFFIN, a citizen of UNITED KINGDOM who has business interests in
DUBAI and currently residing in FRANCE. Alleged to have supplied the layout
plan for the Machine Shop 1001 as a workshop to enable LIBYA to produce
centrifuge; About 2001/2002, PETER GRIFFIN is alleged to have supplied a lathe machine
to LIBYA for the Machine Shop 1001 Project. After that PETER GRIFFIN arranged
to send 7 to 8 LIBYAN technicians to SPAIN, twice, to attend courses on how to
operate the machine. At the same time, PETER GRIFFIN is also said to have
supplied an ITALIAN - made furnace to LIBYA for the workshop. Usually, lathe machines
are used to make cylindrical objects, while the furnace is essential in the
process of heating and refining during the manufacture of certain components;

http://icssa.org/Nuclear_Malaysia.htm


How about that? I think we're making progress on this trail! Now, how can we link this cast of nefarious characters with the 9/11 principals?

[Pallas180]

291. RP - BINGO - how bout linking Peter to

one of Halliburton companies in England or otherwise?

[Pallas180]

202. Remember how Pappy turned on Noriega and the Medallin cartel

puttin them out of business?

It occurs to me RP as I read your link/post, the same thing could
be occurring again. Put the competition out of business:

Pakistan is the big smuggler, Pakistan is aligned with US/CIA and
who knows who else , yes I think they're still aligned with Alqueda
and company...they'll always play both against the middle,

So if they put Ibrahim out of business, they end some of the Pakistani
CIA drug competition.

Sibel said drug wars - intersecting with terrorist activity.

We dont think or know of the terrorists in India, we know of them
riddled throughout Pakistan.

Right?

[Pallas180]

206. Time Mag reporting terrorist summit with bin laden held in Pakistan

in March 2004.

http://www.time.com/time/

[Pallas180]

207. I seriously question whose operation 911 was.

either bin laden is our agent, or Pakistan's agent , or
Pakistan had a large hand in 911.

Why would this governmetn be protecting Pakistan at every turn?

[Pallas180]

209. Funny. Geraldo doing story on Afghani production of dope.

some coincidence.

[shraby]

211. Does he have anything

interesting to our investigation?

[Pallas180]

212. He's actually in Afghanistan & reporting same thing we are - so

KUDOS TO US :toast:

[shraby]

210. If Musharraf is CIA, that would be

a good reason to protect Pakistan as much as possible. He worked with them in 1985 or so, and later took training as a green beret. I have a link to the article in the last thread.

[Pallas180]

213. I think they're protecting to cover their own

asses in "selling" Pakistan the nukes and other materials..and
covering the money laundering and drug trade ---we trained many
many people from other countries at West Point and the Naval Academy
so the green beret thing doesnt mean much I think.

[Pallas180]

214. BTW - we need to write Senators about Goss ASAP - look

From the Associated Press

Democrat Warns Against Fight on CIA Chief

Monday August 16, 2004 3:16 AM


By LEIGH STROPE

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee warned fellow Democrats in the Senate on Sunday against trying to block the nomination of Rep. Porter Goss as CIA director, saying that would be picking the wrong fight in this election year.

Democrats should ask tough questions of Goss, R-Fla., at Senate confirmation hearings next month, but ``my view is this is the wrong fight,'' Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., said on NBC's ``Meet the Press.''

``To get stuck in a fight about Porter Goss after tough questions are asked of Porter Goss is not where we ought to be this fall,'' said Harman, who has no vote on the matter because the Senate confirms presidential nominees.

Goss resigned as chairman of the House intelligence panel last week after President Bush nominated him to replace George Tenet at CIA.

Harman said Congress should move swiftly to push through recommendations from the Sept. 11 commission, including creating a new national intelligence director.

Bush ``missed an opportunity'' for intelligence reform by nominating Goss as permanent CIA director, she said.

Many Democrats have criticized the selection of Goss, saying he is too partisan for a job that requires relaying objective advice to policy makers in the executive and legislative branches.

But Democrats also are mindful of the 2002 congressional elections in which the White House and Republicans put them in a political box regarding creation of the new Homeland Security Department.

Democrats opposed the Bush administration's demand that some federal workers lose long-held civil service protections. But the GOP convinced many voters that Democrats were blocking important legislation to protect the country - even though the new department began as a Democratic plan.

Members of both parties returned from their August recess last week to attend hearings on the findings of the 9/11 Commission, which in late July released a scathing report on pre-Sept. 11 intelligence gathering, citing multiple failures.

Senate leaders want to enact changes the report suggested by the first week in October.

``It is an election year, but this issue transcends politics and terrorists do not wait,'' Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said on ``Meet the Press.''

The threat of an attack before the election spurred Goss' nomination.

And Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said on ``Fox News Sunday'' that a permanent CIA director is urgently needed.

An intelligence overhaul probably ``will be subordinated for the moment'' to focus on Goss' nomination, Lugar said. ``And Porter Goss is a good person to be at the president's side.''

[shraby]

216. We have some dirt on Goss in

the last thread. Let's send it to our Senators.

[Pallas180]

217. Shraby - can you write something up with the Goss info?

so we'll have a prototype of a letter with the info and
I'd like to have something in it about the airport doing drug
running and training Arab hijackers in his backyard and 24 helicopters being stolen in his county while there are reports
of terrorists planning to use helicopters for attacks and "Goss
not knowing anything about it" (wink-wink) certainly disqualifies
him from being the head of the CIA or any agency connected with
US intel.

[shraby]

218. I'll see what I can do about it.

I'll work on it tomorrow. I'm outa here for tonight on account of I'm tired. :hi:

[shraby]

215. Look what I found about Halliburton

Middle East

Halliburton Worldwide Ltd.
Manama, Bahrain

Halliburton - Baroid
Kuwait City, Kuwait

Halliburton Overseas Limited Yard No 34
East Ahmadi, Kuwait

Halliburton Overseas Limited - Security DBS Yard No. 34,
East Ahmadi, Kuwait

Granherne & Co LLC
Al Khuwair, Oman

Halliburton Worldwide Ltd.
Al Khuwair (Muscat), Oman

Halliburton - Baroid
Doha, Qatar

Halliburton - Security DBS
Doha Qatar

Halliburton - Sperry Sun
Doha, Qatar

Halliburton - Sperry Sun
Doha, Qatar

Halliburton Limited
Doha, Qatar

KBR/Technip-Q-Chem Project
Doha, Qatar

Halliburton - Baroid
Damman, Saudi Arabia

Halliburton - Sperry Sun
Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia

Halliburton Company, Saudi Arabia Branch
Dhahran, Saudi Arabia

KBR
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

KBR/Tanura
Rahima, Saudi Arabia

Halliburton
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

Halliburton (District Office)
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

Halliburton - Baroid
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

Halliburton - Baroid
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Halliburton - Security DBS
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Halliburton - Sperry Sun
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

Halliburton - Sperry Sun
Building 9 (OSC)
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Halliburton Limited
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

KBR
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

KBR
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Landmark Graphics
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

Landmark Graphics
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Security DBS -c/o Abu Dhabi Oilfield Services
Ahu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

Halliburton Worldwide Limited c/o Yemen Hunt Oil Company
Sana'a, Yemen

Halliburton Worldwide Limited Yemen Hunt Oil Company
Sana'a, Aden, Yemen

<http://www.halliburton.com/ofc_loc/location_search.jsp?USA=0&rgn=ME&cnt=all>

[Pallas180]

219. Good Morning Think Tank :) Got any Malaysia/Phillipines Halli's ?

One of Robert Paulsen's articles mentioned Malaysia.

[Pallas180]

220. We have to remember that Sibel Edmonds' "desk" was

Iranian Farsi language

Turkish language

Turkic language of Azerbaijani,


so those are the main areas of arms trade, money laundering, and drug trade (intersections) we should be looking for


Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijani




are our clues to Who? and What? and even Where? .

[Pallas180]

224. Off Topic - Yesterday OUR media reported 1 million votes against Chavez

and that he was going to lose.

Apparently pappyco and the CIA aren't managing coups as well as they
used to.

"Mr. Chavez has repeatedly accused the United States of financing the campaign against him, and insists despite U.S. denials, that the Bush administration was behind a military coup that briefly unseated him on 2002."

Chavez won. And Jimmy Carter's organization oversaw the voting.

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=C2D32FD8-8FDE-4BF4-96AF1582365CA4CB

[robertpaulsen]

261. Of course Halliburton's in Malaysia! Next, they'll be on Mars.

2003 Press Releases

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: March 3, 2003

SHELL MALAYSIA - E&P AWARDS HALLIBURTON/ENVENTURE GT SOLID EXPANDABLE TUBULAR CONTRACT

Houston, Texas - Halliburton Energy Services (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd, an incorporated entity of Halliburton (NYSE: HAL) in Malaysia, announced the award of a multi-million dollar contract from Shell Malaysia E&P (SMEP) to supply Enventure Global Technology Solid Expandable Tubular (SET™) Equipment and Services for their Malaysian operations. The contract spans a two-year period, with an option to extend another year.

This long-term contract for the supply of SET Equipment and Services was officially signed between Hee Len Hi of SMEP and Rao Abdullah of Halliburton Energy Services (Malaysia ) Sdn Bhd recently in Lutong, Sarawak.

http://www.halliburton.com/news/archive/2003/hesnws_030303.jsp

Wonder who else they've been helping.

[H2O Man]

223. I am working on a little paper

that should clarify some of the issues surrounding Bin Laden. Perhaps rather than whining that you folks aren't studying him, I can better invest that energy by putting together a little outline for you. (smile) However, I think you folks will miss my whining ..... you won't have a whiner to kick around anymore !!!! AAArrrgh! Channeling Nixon!!!

[Pallas180]

225. "whining" is a favorite word of Robert Novak's and particularly

condescending, patronizing, and used in the politics of GOP personal
attacks.

Overlooking your temporary "fall from grace" into political incorrectness, an outline of the things you think Plame Investigators
should know about bin laden would be nice.

You mentioned an index containing many names of the players.
Now that would be something we might whine should be placed on this thread - and might even be appreciated.

I'm keeping in mind that the planet Mercury is in retrograde, (in backward motion), and has dominion over speech and communications...therefore foot in mouth disease may be a common occurrence until September 2 when that planet goes into direct motion again, and Mercury won't be able to be used as an excuse.

[Pallas180]

226. By the Way, H20, you posted this item of interest elsewhere and

it is of interest to the hard workers on this Plame thread.

When you come across something of interest like this, do you think
you could double post it? Thanks.



H2O Man (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-16-04 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #38

39. Plame Media


A search of the news on Valerie Plame at google shows that over the weekend, more than 51 large newspapers, in cities across the country, ran articles/editorials about the 1st ammendment issues involved in the Plame grand jury.

The similarity is due to many city papers running slight variations of an article by Jennifer Kerr of AP. Several papers who do not credit Kerr clearly use her article as their outline.

The papers include those listed above, as well as the Anchorage Daily News; Tacoma News Tribune; Knoxville News Sentinel; the Provo Daily Herald,UT; Miami Herald; Atlanta Journal Constitution; Kansas City Star; and the San Jose Mercury News, among many others.

Thus, people across the nation are getting some news on the Plame grand jury, which is a good thing. However, they are only getting a small piece of the news, which is by its nature slanted towards protecting reporters' sources. And that is not necessarily accurate or good.

I continue to urge people to write letters to the editor of the papers which have ran editorials regarding the Plame grand jury.

[H2O Man]

227. Oh, make no mistake......

What I wrote was accurate. I had hoped people would do some research in another direction. It's not a matter of if I know it or not. I'm an old man, and shouldn't have to do this. It may not be material that everyone wants to read, because it puts the assumption that the bush administration was an active, willing participant in 9-11 to bed. It is, of course, more comfortable for many to believe that the parent-figure in Washington is in complete control ..... rather than accepting that right now, the world is totally out of control, with far more potential for violence than were bush et al in control.

In order to deal with the reality of the world situation, people would need to rise up to another level. Remember Martha Mitchell? (smile) She knew that the Nixon administration was crooked. But she sounded like a nut.

on edit: now is not the time for Martha.

[Pallas180]

228. H20, Washington is not a parent figure -it's a crime figure

" it puts the assumption that the bush administration was an active, willing participant in 9-11 to bed."

maybe - maybe not. depending on the origination of the material.

The Warren Commission said one magic bullet killed JFK, but you don't
accept that because of Man X. Nor do a large majority of people believe it, and they dont know a darn about Man X.

The same goes for the perpetrators of 911.

Especially with our new factual knowledge of the criminal activity of
this and its prior administrations "evildoing" in detail.

It was either MIHOP or LIHOP.

And if anyone can find the article about Bolton or Boucher in
the think tank meeting the summer before the attack daring bin laden to attack.....it would be very very helpful.

I don;t think the New Jersey widows believe the administration was
without participation.

Explain the stand down orders.
Explain the PNAC statement.
Explain double agent Atta's participation.
Explain the "hands off" student flyers and Atta.
Explain the Chicago puts.
Explain the CIA bank and brokerage house connections.
Explain the 28 blacked out pages.
Explain Sibel Edmonds gag order.

Lucy, you got a lotta splainin to do.

[H2O Man]

229. Being familiar with the Dallas case

and recognizing that it surely didn't happen as the Warren Commission stated it did has never been dependant upon the Man X variable. It's important to have things in the proper sequence.

The issues you raise are of interest. None, however, "prove" that the bush administration was a knowing participant in 9-11. However, if a person has a conclusion, and then looks for evidence to support it, there is always a group of "facts" that can be viewed any many ways ... hence the need for proper sequencing.

The fact that Usama Bin Laden had the ability to orchestrate 9-11 does not take away from the criminal behavior and moral bankruptcy of this administration. It does call into question how many of our "friends" really are looking out for our best interests. And, in regard to some greedy vultures in our military-industrial complex: could their desire for $$$ and power blind them? Sure. Would many sell their country down the drain? Dang right.

But the idea of the administration pulling off 9-11 is simply incorrect, and does not hold up to rational and logical examination. If the target was the NYC-based Twin Towers, why the other planes? Why hit the pentagon? Why wasn't the plane intended to hit the White House allowed to, rather than shooting it down in rural PA? I think it would be very hard for you to accept that the administration did not take an active role. That's fine. I'll enjoy comparing notes .... and that's likely a good way to let other people decide.

Information from Bodansky comes from a variety of sources, including the actual news agencies of the middle east, and the releases from Bin Laden etc from before 2000. They include the filmed interviews that he set up, and that his followers around the globe recognize as him. Bodansky, like any serious researcher/investigator, appreciates the need to use the other side's information, in order to make a thorough investigation that holds up to scrutiny. (grin)

[Pallas180]

231. I read enough of Bodansky

to know he sucks.

Got any other references than Bodansky?

Got milk?

[Pallas180]

234. OFF TOPIC and truly disgusting

searching for Bolton or Boucher meeting in the summer of 2001
I was put onto Free Republic site and came across this:

"Egypt:Jews Slaughtering Non-Jews, Draining their Blood, and Using it for Talmudic Religious Rituals"

Posted by Stoat
On 08/16/2004 8:56:55 AM PDT



no comment is needed.

[H2O Man]

235. Now, now!

Your planets must be in a bad way. It is of no consequence if you agree or disagree with Bodansky's conclusions. His opinions don't count.

Anyone that has any serious background in research/investigation knows that there are many important sources of information that come from people with personalities we don't particularly like. But it's important that we don't allow our personalities to keep us from seaking the truth.


Again, if a student in an introductory political science class handed in a paper on 9-11 that ignored Usama Bin Laden, it would be marked "incomplete." If the student said they refused to consider any information from a Bodansky, the paper fails.

To discuss or debate the facts Bodansky relies upon would, of course, require one to have a familiarity with them. There are no credible short-cuts to logical thinking. "Bodansky sucks" fails to qualify as a short-cut, much less rational thought.

[Pallas180]

237. Guardian Observer 2001 Series/background on OBL

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,582274,00.html

and more of interest from 2001

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,560787,00.html

and "Revenge of Taliban" March 2001

This is a very good series of articles prior to and immediately after
911

but I still haven't found the article I'm looking for:

"It was as if Bush was provoking Osama bin Laden and both were rushing to see who would strike first" - paraphrasing

[H2O Man]

240. One might want to read

what the ISI leaked to the Islamist journal "Ausaf" in December of 1999 regarding a message from Assistant Secretary of State Karl Inderfurth.

Was Bush provoking Usama Bin Laden? Might have thought he was bullying him.

The truth of what happened doesn't make bush & friends look any better. They provoked a rattle snake, and their stupidity caused the deaths of thousands of people.

[Pallas180]

242. Uh - dimson was not in office in December of 1999 -

?

[Pallas180]

243. However

Contacts between the CIA and bin Laden began in 1979 when, as a representative of his family's business, bin Laden began recruiting volunteers for the Afghan resistance against the Red Army.

FBI investigators examining the embassy bombing sites in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam discovered that evidence led to military explosives from the US Army, and that these explosives had been delivered threee years earlier to Afghan Arabs, the infamous international volunteer brigades involved side by side with bin Laden during the Afghan war against the Red Army.

In the pursuit of its investigations, the FBI discovered "financing agreements" that the CIA had been developing with its "arab friends" for years. The Dubai meeting (when binladen was hospitalized for surgery) is then within the logic of "a certain American policy".


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The URL of this article is:
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/RIC111B.html

Copyright, Le Figaro, 2001. For fair use only.

[H2O Man]

259. Correct.

You may recall a letter by Wolfowitz, signed by numerous neocons, that attempted to pressure Clinton to invade Iraq. I believe if you were to go back to one of the early threads, where a discussion of Wolfowitz included my quoting from Pat Buchanan. Mr. Buchanan, in fact, predicted that the US harassment of UBL would result in a significant attack on American soil in the early 2000s.

[Pallas180]

248. H20 , link to Dec 1999 Inderfurth message and "Ausaf" ?

pls

[H2O Man]

260. There's a great deal of information

in a book I mentioned. Wouldn't care to attend a social function with the author. But his books are pretty darned interesting.

[robertpaulsen]

265. Wasn't sure, but this seemed the best place for global terror info.

Circa 1998:

A Note on Global Terrorism

Introduction

On August 20, 1998 the United States of America bombed Khost and Jalalabad in Afghanistan and what they believed was a chemical weapons factory on the outskirts of Khartoum. This was in response to the bombings of the American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

The targets of the attacks in Afghanistan were the terrorist training camps of Osama bin Laden who the Americans believe masterminded the bombings of the US embassies. The Americans also claimed they had evidence that Bin Laden’s group was trying to obtain weapons of mass destruction from Sudan.

The choice of Khost and Jalalabad as targets is significant. Many of the militants and mercenaries arrested in Jammu and Kashmir identified these two locations as the ones where they received training. Jane's Intelligence Review and the "Independent" of the UK based on investigative field reports identified Khost and Jalalabad as two of the centers where the Harkat-ul Ansar cadres, who are active in Jammu and Kashmir, received training.

Osama bin Laden is a Saudi billionaire, heir to a construction fortune. He was a major financier of the Afghan Mujahideen during their war against the Soviet Union. After the withdrawal of the Soviet forces, Osama’s ire focused on America and the Saudi Regime, which he accused of having defiled the holy places of Mecca and Medina by permitting the stationing of American troops on Saudi territory. His Saudi nationality was revoked and he fled to Sudan from where he continued to support and finance extremist groups, like the Al Gamaa al Islamiya in Egypt, fighting against what they claimed were non-Islamic governments in their own countries and against western interests. Following the pressure on Sudan after it was declared a state sponsor of terrorism by the USA, Bin Laden was asked to leave Sudan and took refuge under the Taliban in Afghanistan from where he has been operating. He has been calling for attacks against US interests and giving support to extremist Islamic.

Recently Osama Bin Laden was reported to have created a new umbrella organization, the World Islamic Front, of extremist groups and called for renewed attacks against American interests. The Islamic Army for Liberation of Muslim Holy Sites claimed responsibility for the attacks against the US Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. Prior to the bombings, Al Jihad of Egypt, a constituent of Bin Laden’s new organization, had given a warning of attacks following the arrest of his men by the FBI in Albania, leaving the Americans convinced that Bin Laden had engineered the attacks.

Immediately following the bombings four people were arrested in Pakistan. One of them, Mohammed Sadiq Howaida confessed to Pakistani authorities both to having links with Osama Bin Laden and with the bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. He also said that some of others involved in the incident had already traveled through Pakistan to Afghanistan.

The role of Pakistan in creating the Taliban: the presence of Pakistani ISI and military advisors and regular army men with the Taliban has been reported by the Pak media, by the international media, by security analysts including of Jane's Defense Review. It has been also officially been stated by the Russian government.

The fact that Osama Bin Laden is being protected by the Taliban who function with Pakistan's support an who are refusing to surrender him and the fact that those who were involved in the bombings in Tanzania and Kenya chose to return to Pakistan en route to Taliban territory in Afghanistan once again highlights the emergence of Pakistan as not only a center for terrorists training but also as a safe sanctuary for extremists and terrorists who have perpetrated violence in different countries.

The following note based on media reports, revelations by arrested terrorists, and reports by security and intelligence analysts gives details of the role of Pakistan in providing a base for international terrorism and a sanctuary to terrorists operating in different countries.

snip

India

India has been witnessing terrorist violence since 1980, initially in Punjab and since 1989, in Jammu & Kashmir and other parts of India. Nearly 20,000 people have been killed in terrorist violence in Jammu & Kashmir, involving both shootings and bombings.

The 1992 serial bomb blasts in Bombay, masterminded by the Memon family, were one of the major incidents of terrorism in India in recent years. The bomb blast in Lajpat Nagar in Delhi in 1996 had also resulted in a large number of civilian causalities. There have been many more incidents of bomb blasts in different part s of the country.

It is a well documented fact that leaders of some of the most extremist Sikh terrorist groups are in Pakistan and are continuing to try and motivate Sikh youth from the UK, Canada as well as from Indian Punjab to take recourse to extremist activities. Wadhawa Singh of the Babbar Khalsa, Paramjit Singh Panjwar of the Khalistan Commando Force (Panjwar), Gajender Singh of the Dal Khalsa, Pritam Singh Sekhon of the Khalistan Liberation Force, Lakhbir Singh Rode of the International Sikh Youth Federation , are all presently in Pakistan and continue to try and engineer terrorist activity with Pakistani help in India. Wassan Singh Zaffarwal, one of the most wanted people in India for his terrorist activities in Punjab, remained in Pakistan for a long time and then surfaced in Switzerland, seeking asylum.

Lal Singh Manjit Singh arrested for his role in the bombing of the Air India Boeing ‘Kanishka’ revealed to the authorities in India and Canada the operation of a massive base of Sikh terrorism in Pakistan. Yousef Bodansky of the United States House Republican Research Committee’s Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare had published a report “The New Islamist international” which gave details of how Pakistan had been training Sikh and Kashmiri.

The investigations by the Indian authorities and the confession on television of Yaqub Memon in connection with the serial bomb blasts in Bombay in 1992, provided full details of how the Pakistanis had used the known smuggler Dawood Ibrahim and his associates in Pakistan to impart training, provide financing and explosives and subsequently sanctuary to the perpetrators of the bomb blasts. The entire Memon family was given refuge in Pakistan after the bomb blasts. While Yaqub Memon was persuaded to return to India and provided full details, including the false documentation given by Pakistan, the eldest brother Ibrahim ‘Tiger’ Abdul Razak Memon remains in Pakistan even today.

The involvement of Pakistan in sponsoring terrorism in Jammu & Kashmir has been documented by the Pakistani media, the international media, the analysts of Jane's Intelligence Review and most importantly, by the US State Department. In the latest reports on “Patterns of Global Terrorism 1997”, the US State Department says that “ reports continued in 1997, however, Official Pakistan support to militants fighting in Kashmir. The 1997 report continues to focus on the Harkat-ul-Ansar as a terrorist outfit operating in Jammu & Kashmir. Earlier reports had also given details of the Jammu & Kashmir Islamic Front, based in Pakistan and supported by it, which had undertaken bomb blasts in Lajpat Nagar in New Delhi, Jammu & Kashmir and other places in India.

The Pakistan magazine ‘Herald’ had carried a detailed report on the Lashkar e Taiba, the armed wing of the Markaz al Dawaa wal Arshad, following a congregation held by it at Murdike near Lahore. At this congregation, details of the Lashkar cadres who had been killed in Jammu & Kashmir had been published. In addition, there were calls for Jehad against Hindus, against the USA, against India and against democracy. A similar congregation was held on April 18, 1998 again at Muridke, which was attended by Pakistan’s Minister for Information, Mushahid Hussain, who lauded the activities of the Lashkar. In 1998, the Lashkar e Taiba has been responsible for the majority of the killings of Kashmir Pundits in Jammu & Kashmir. While the Lashkar e Taiba appears to be emerging as a the main mercenary outfit being used by Pakistan now, the Harkat-ul-Ansar and Hezb ul Mujahidden are equally active. The Hezb’s Supreme Commander, Syed Sallauddin, continues to be in Pakistan and frequently gives press conferences and issues statements and attends various congregations for Jihad against India, organized by the Jamaat e Islami.

http://www.punjabilok.com/misc/terrorism/note_on_global_terrorism.htm

Please read the whole link. Good info, but I wanted to highlight the Ibrahim info, which I am currently investigating.

[Pallas180]

221. CURRENT FOCUS: EDMONDS STATEMENTS HERE:

Okay, Let's focus again: Sibel Edmonds

Whether you are solving a question or writing a story, the questions
you ask are: Who, What, When, Where, Why.

The Why of Plame has brought us also to Sibel Edmonds.

In the same way we found the answers to Plame on the internet through googling and finding published responsbile sources, we should be able to find answers and secrets involving Edmonds' "forbidden information.

Except - in the Edmonds matter we know Why - we are searching for Who?, What?, and Where?

Our clues to what she may have discovered (which caused her to be fired and threatened not to talk to the media or any senators and prompted FBI Director Mueller to have DOJ Ashcroft place a gag order on her) are in Sibel Edmonds' own words are in two interviews here,

It is important to read this interview.


http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=2917


Somewhere in the fact that Sibel Edmonds was a translator of the Iranian Farsi language and the Turkish language and the Turkic language of Azerbaijani, are our clues to Who? and What? and even Where? .

What are the answers to Who and What and Where she is referring?


Here are other Edmonds quotes,

“There are certain points... where you have your drug related activities combined with money laundering and information laundering, converging with your terrorist activities.” Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?



"The 9/11 terror plot intersected with the activities of a drug trafficking network of international scope, in ways that form a "crystal clear" picture of what was going on.” --Sibel Edmonds.


"You have a network of people who obtain certain information and they take it out and sell it to … whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East, and their connections. It is only then that you really see the big picture. The post-9/11 ntelligence 'failures' included the willful quashing by the government, of investigations tracing these criminal networks.-- Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator



WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?


“The real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal… Everything from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And yes, there are certain convergences (between) these activities and international terrorism." -Sibel Edmonds

“After almost three years the American people still do not know that thousands of lives can be jeopardized under the unspoken policy of ‘ protecting certain foreign business relations.” —Sibel Edmonds


WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?

[RebelYell]

230. Significant notes from Hopsicker interview & book

The 9/11 Commission report is irrelevant because it focuses on what, not who. There were no FBI field interviews included. There was no information included on the flight schools. The 9/11 investigation is a pseudo investigation and not a crime investigation. They don't address the who and why. There is alot of disinfo. The government is keeping facts secret.

The owner of Hoffman Aviation in Florida had his plane confiscated in Orlando with 43 lbs. of heroin. The DEA reports 30 weekly runs to Venezuela for drugs. He has some kind of protection.

The #1 industry is foreign trade of drugs and the press shows no interest in reporting on it.

If we investigate the 9/11 cover-up, it will lead to the perps.

Atta:
A psychopath, who was allowed to be in US

Mohammed Atta was on the terror watch list because of a bus bombing in Israel in 1986 - is there more than one Mohammed Atta? Or was the 9/11 Mohammed Atta really someone else?

Atta's 7 friends in US were either German, Swiss or French, not Muslim.

Hoffman Aviation student, a female physician, told Hopsicker that she was told Atta was a Saudi Prince. He was allowed to have his bodyguard present in cockpit during lessons (Marwan). Marwan went everywhere with him.

Hopsicker thinks that 9/11 was a drug war between Bush and UBL. UBL ran the first Islamic drug cartel. UBL ran Afghanistan before 9/11 and supplied over half of the World's heroin, making UBL the Heroin King. According to Federal prosecutors in New Jersey, a typical deal would be oil and heroin for guns and training.

There is no evidence of LIHOP or MIHOP YET. If the goverment was complicit, they would not have had dirty patsies - they would have used patsies that didn't have connections to the drug trade.

There was an assassination attempt on Bush the night before 9/11. Four Arabs arrived at the gate of the hotel that Bush was staying in, saying they had a meeting with Bush. They were turned away - not arrested - but turned away!

The pilot of the plane that hit the Pentagon was a Saudi Air Force pilot.

The Saudis own 7% of the US economy, and investigations into Florida/Saudis should be done. He thinks Florida is full of Saudi money. Not only Venice, but Miami, Orlando and Portland, Maine.

Adnan Kashoggi is involved with the Taliban and the drug trade. He's also involved in a drug war in Rum Key, Bahamas.

How we can move the 9/11 investigation forward:
Networking

Investigative journalists
There are several German and Irish journalists also looking into 9/11

Expose the hidden network of the control of the international drug trade - Sibel Edmonds.

The government story of 9/11 is obviously withholding evidence. For example, between 1999 and 9/11, hundreds of young Arabs went to flight school in Florida for 3 or 4 job openings a year.

There was no remote control of the planes, no missle pods, no holograms. It was a war with the Bush and Bin Laden drug cartels. Like Pallas said - remember the Medellin cartel?

[Pallas180]

232. REB - woooooph. That's an eyeful.

and I have a lot of questions.

"9/11 was a drug war between Bush and UBL. UBL ran the first Islamic drug cartel. UBL ran Afghanistan before 9/11 and supplied over half of the World's heroin, making UBL the Heroin King."

I could buy that theory. As a matter of fact I began to think that
1/2 this thread ago.


"There was an assassination attempt on Bush the night before 9/11. Four Arabs arrived at the gate of the hotel that Bush was staying in, saying they had a meeting with Bush. They were turned away - not arrested - but turned away!"

First time I've ever heard of that. What country and hotel was he staying in?


"Investigative journalists
There are several German and Irish journalists also looking into 9/11"

Are they online...any written material from them? Names?

(I'm also not so sure Atta is dead-he didn't sound like a true believer or a person who would kill himself for the cause in an aircrash.



Carry on - you're hot. No sleep is apparently good for you :)

:bounce:

[RebelYell]

236. Bush

was staying at a hotel in Florida the night before 9/11 because of his visit on 9/11 to the school where he read My Pet Goat. I read about this assassination attempt somewhere, I'll attempt to find it.

The info about other journalists was from the interview - Hopsicker didn't say who it was. I'll send him an email and ask him.

Hopsicker's book is on the bestsellers list in Germany at the moment.

[RebelYell]

238. Here it is

Bush and Atta Visit Same Resort in the Hours Leading to 9-11
More smoke, more fire.
by Daniel Hopsicker

July 29—Venice, FL.

Just three nights before President George W Bush arrived at the swank Colony Resort on Longboat Key on the evening of Sept 10, 2001, Mohamed Atta was staying at a slightly-less tony hotel just two miles down the beach, the Holiday Inn Hotel & Suites—Longboat Key, according to eyewitnesses who contacted the FBI in the immediate aftermath of the attack. Predictably, the story went nowhere. So too did early wire reports stating that on the day of the attack Sarasota police said the Secret Service interrogated four Sudanese men after getting a tip that the men intended to harm President Bush during his visit to the city.

The incident was found to be "unrelated" to the attacks, the AP reported, and ended in the release of the men. But these stories are now being resurrected in the wake of recent reports of a possible Longboat Key assassination attempt against Bush on the morning of the terrorist attack, and they are provoking disturbing questions about how much, or how little, Americans have been told about the events surrounding the attack on their country.

~~~~~~~~

Sieverts recollections of spotting on Longboat Key the most cold-blooded killer of the still-young 21st Century— (Atta) just a few short days before Bush's arrival—were confirmed to the FBI by other hotel employees, several of whom also recalled seeing Atta on another
occasion, dining in the hotel's Gulfstream restaurant with a man identified by the restaurant manager and a waiter as Marwan Al-shehhi.

~~~~~~~~

The revelation of Atta's proximity to Bush, first reported in the local Longboat Observer, deepens the mystery surrounding the pre-dawn warning received by the Secret Service detail protecting the President on his Florida trip in the early morning hours on Sept 11.

Alarmingly, The Colony, which bills itself as "the nation's no. 1 tennis resort," is just two miles of mostly-deserted white sand away from the Holiday Inn Hotel frequented by Atta and Al-shehhi.

~~~~~~~~

Bush was in Florida to promote his administration's new education bill. His first stop of the day was to be at the Emma E Booker Elementary School in Sarasota—a 25-minute drive from the Colony.

"Four Sudanese men? In Sarasota?"

In the warning, Zainelabdeen Omer, a Sudanese national who has since disappeared, told authorities of an immediate threat of a possible assassination attempt and terror attack on America from a friend of his, a man named "Ghandi" who had just arrived in Sarasota to bail someone out of jail.

To bring the day's chronology into focus, a little after 6am on September 11, 2001, according to an AP report, "Bush awoke in the magnificent surroundings of the Colony Beach Resort on Longboat Key, an upscale and relatively-pristine tropical island enclave located directly on the Gulf of Mexico a spindly coral island in the Gulf of Mexico, off Sarasota, Florida."

"The previous evening Mr Bush had dined beachside with his brother Jeb, the governor of Florida, the state that had controversially handed him the presidency. Now, on the morning of his 234th day in office, a light, warm breeze was slipping in from the ocean, and, after breakfast, Bush led his Secret Service crew on a four-mile run around the nearby Serenoa golf links."

"No van, no warning? No problem."

The AP story neglects any mention of a van filled with Middle Eastern men attempting to gain access to the President at the same time as Bush is leaving for his morning jog.

And although the story was reported on the local NBC affiliate, the AP also neglects any mention of the pre-dawn warning of an attack.

Instead, the AP's account of Bush briefing that morning states that "The President's briefing appears to have included some reference to the heightened terrorist risk reported throughout the summer, but contained nothing specific, severe or imminent enough to necessitate a call to Condoleezza Rice, his 47-year-old National Security Adviser.

The FBI, too, seemed unimpressed.

"Nationwide the FBI has received over 200,00 such tips, stated FBI spokesman Sarah Oakes, "with more than 5000 of the tips coming into the Tampa office alone."

"Mum's the word in Florida"

Unlike whistleblowers who have come forward in the FBI's Minneapolis and Phoenix offices, to name just two, agents in the Tampa FBI office have maintained their silence.

So too have agents in the Sarasota FBI office.

Does their silence signal valid national security concerns? Or just embarrassment?

Atta and Al-Shehhi's presence on Longboat Key just days before the President's arrival raise a number of disturbing questions.

The most pressing is also the most obvious. What were terrorists doing on Longboat Key?

Still, the Secret Service, no doubt very aware of Atta's suspicious presence on Longboat Key, has dismissed the pre-dawn warning they received as "just coincidence."

This must mean that when, three days later, a van filled with Middle Eastern men attempted to gain entry to Bush's hotel by posing as journalists, it has nothing at all to do with "terrorist ringleader" Mohamed Atta's recent presence on Longboat Key.

It is all just a coincidence.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bush_and_atta_visit_same_resort_in_the_hours_leading_to_911.htm

[RebelYell]

241. Sudan/UBL/Heroin/Pakistan

"On August 20 <1998> the United States launched a series of cruise missile attacks against alleged terrorist camps in Afghanistan and a pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan, both of which were said to be under the control of a rabid Islamic fundamentalist leader and arch terrorist named Osama bin-Laden. I did some checking on bin-Laden and what I found out leads me to suspect that the CIA and the U.S. government would rather have this evil terrorist hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan than answering questions which might embarrass them.

~~~~~~~~

In the early 1990s bin-Laden took up sanctuary in the Sudan and was afforded a kind of safe haven. He threw himself into massive construction projects including road building. The Sudanese government has admitted that it had an agreement with the U.S. to monitor bin-Laden and to curtail his terrorist activities. In exchange for this Sudan received unspecified rewards. It is, therefore, mystifying as to why, with bin-Laden under scrutiny in the reasonably accessible and penetrable Sudan, the U.S. government forced the Sudanese government to expel him in 1995. This drove him back into the arms of the increasingly hostile Taliban militia in Afghanistan. There, he re-established relations with Afghani drug lords in the towns of Jhost and Jalalabad."

~~~~~~~~

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/08_01_98_osama_bin_laden.html

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Osama bin Laden a 'narco-terrorist'

By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The al Qaeda terror group has embraced heroin trafficking to such an extent that its leader, Osama bin Laden, is now a "narco-terrorist," says a U.S. congressman just back from a fact-finding mission in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"It seems clear to me heroin is the No. 1 financial asset of Osama bin Laden," Rep. Mark Steven Kirk, Illinois Republican, told The Washington Times. "There is a need to update our view of how terrorism is financed.

~~~~~~~~

The al Qaeda-heroin connection is becoming more clear to Washington. The first big break came last month, when Navy ships seized boats concealing large stashes of heroin and operated by crew members linked to al Qaeda. In Afghanistan, Mr. Kirk talked to a variety of sources, including U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration agents, U.S. troops and Afghan counternarcotics officials.

A kilogram of heroin that can fetch $2,000 in Pakistan can get $10,000 in Turkey. That is why al Qaeda has begun sending drug-laden boats into the Arabian Sea: to find more lucrative markets outside Pakistan.

~~~~~~~~

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld is reluctant to get his troops too deeply involved in the drug wars, aides say. Some Pentagon officials view counternarcotics as predominately a law enforcement duty. In Afghanistan, where the United Nations reports 264,000 poppy-growing families, the U.S. military does not want to alienate citizens whose support it needs for the U.S.-backed government of Hamid Karzai.

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/osama.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FTW - Money connections between Bush Republicans and Osama bin Laden go way back and the political and economic connections have remained unbroken for 20 years. And what appears to be a "new" alliance with Pakistan is merely a new manifestation of a decades-long partnership in the heroin trade.

Until February, Afghanistan had been the world's largest producer of opium/heroin, claiming close to 70% of the world's total production. That opium, consumed largely in Western Europe and smuggled through the Balkans, was a direct source of cash deposits in Western financial institutions and markets.

~~~~~~~~~

"Just before coming to this conference I read in the Associated Press, Agence France Press and other reliable sources that the Taliban has recently eradicated most of its 3000 ton opium crop in Afghanistan. If true, I view this as a form of economic warfare against Russia because it would drive opium production more into Southeast Asia and Colombia. However, I now suspect that this will result in a shift of opium production to the Caucasus under the Kurds which will see an increase in smuggling through Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. I should note that both Vice President Richard Cheney and the designated Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage are members of the US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce. Such a move would have the effect of drastically shortening smuggling routes and costs into Western Europe and of bypassing unstable areas of the Balkans.

~~~~~~~~

The Taliban's actions this year severed the ruling military junta in Pakistan from its primary source of foreign revenues and made bin Laden and the Taliban completely expendable in the eyes of the Pakistani government. It also cut off billions of dollars in revenues that had been previously laundered through western banks and Russian financial institutions connected to them.

~~~~~~~~

"We should revisit the history of BCCI, a bank used by the legendary Palestinian terrorist known as Abu Nidal. BCCI was closely tied to American and Pakistan intelligence. Its clients included the Afghan rebels, and the brother of Osama bin Laden, Salem. Salem bin Laden named Houston investment broker James R. Bath as his business representative in Texas, right after George W. BushÕs father became CIA director in 1976. By 1977, Bath invested $50,000 into juniorÕs first business, Arbusto Energy, while Osama bin Laden would soon become a CIA asset. George W. BushÕs FBI director Robert Mueller was part of the Justice DepartmentÕs questionable investigation of BCCI. (On BCCI, the bin Ladens, and the Bushes, see the books, The Outlaw Bank, A Full Service Bank, and Fortunate Son)." Further details of the business and financial relationships between the Bush and bin Laden family are found in Peter Brewton's 1992 book The Mafia, CIA and George Bush. BCCI, incidentally, was founded by a Pakistani.

~~~~~~~~

George Bush, Sr. was Vice President and, by virtue of executive Order 12333, in charge of all U.S. intelligence and narcotics operations from 1981 through 1989. As President from 1989 through 1993, he continued and expanded his control in these areas. Thus, it was Bush (the elder) who directly nourished and nurtured bin Laden's evolution.

Much more:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/09_18_01_bushbin.html

Another link:
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

[Pallas180]

246. REBEL YELL - YOU DID IT AGAIN! YOU'RE AN INCREDIBLY BAD BAD

TERRIFFIC PERSON!!!

From your post above "Sudan/Heroin/OBL/Pakistan

"a shift of opium production to the Caucasus under the Kurds which will see an increase in smuggling through Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan.

(Sibel Edmonds AZERBAIJAN)

I should note that both Vice President Richard Cheney and the designated Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage are members of the US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce. Such a move would have the effect of drastically shortening smuggling routes and costs into Western Europe and of bypassing unstable areas of the Balkans.


Who is the author of that report and what year was the report written?
He writes " Just before coming to this conference -

but the way the report reads it's as if he's advising Armitage and Cheney of an economic opportunity and a way to hurt Russia....

And the last paragraph:

"George Bush, Sr. was Vice President and, by virtue of executive Order 12333, in charge of all U.S. intelligence and narcotics operations from 1981 through 1989. As President from 1989 through 1993, he continued and expanded his control in these areas."

" Thus, it was Bush (the elder) who directly nourished and nurtured bin Laden's evolution."

I dont know that I agree with that last line. Seems to me it's more likely since we know of Iran-Contra and the Sandanistas directed by Pappy, he more likely nourished and nurtured bin laden as a part of his
arms for drugs wholesale operation.

BUT YOU HAVE FOUND A MAJOR MAJOR ROUTE TO A CONNECTION...CHENEY AND ARMITAGE ON ASERBAIJAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE....BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHA.

Now it's not just "nuclear walmart are us", but "drugs and death" acan be obtained at your local nuclear walmart too.

[RebelYell]

249. Thanks! n/t

[Pallas180]

250. Googling Drug Wars : and come up with Kosovo, Turkey, Afghanistan

Didn't we have something up above about Libby?/Wolfowtiz? sending arms
to Kosovo Albanians during the war.....arms for drugs?

I know we read something about that ---

"HOME - ARCHIVES
NATIONAL POST, Thursday, April 13, 2000 p. A14
Drug wars: Kosovo's new battle

Kosovo Albanians control 40% of Europe's heroin. If they now return home, there is little the UN can do

Patrick Graham
National Post

PRISTINA, Yugoslavia - Kosovo is a gangster's paradise. With few police, no effective judicial system and lots of guns, the internationally administered province is increasingly seen by European leaders as a base for organized crime, especially drug smuggling.

Kosovo lies in the middle of the Balkan Route, a web of smuggling roads leading from Turkey and over which $400-billion (US) of heroin is moved into western Europe every year. Now there are growing fears the province could provide an important transit point.

"We need riot police for crowd control, forensic experts to solve crimes and specialized units to fight drug trafficking and organized crime," Javier Solana, the European Union's representative for foreign and security policy, told European leaders in February.

But the 2,500 United Nations police sent to the province are less than half that requested by Bernard Kouchner, the UN mission chief. KFOR soldiers, for their part, are likely to put as much effort into policing as their cohorts in Bosnia, which is not much. Bosnia is one of Europe's major conduits for drugs, arms, stolen cars and prostitution, despite a large international military presence.

"Generals do not want to turn their troops into cops," an official at NATO headquarters said. "Especially, they don't want to get their troops shot pursuing black marketeers."

The chaos created by 10 years of war in the Balkans has been a bonanza for the Kosovo Albanians, who control 40% of Europe's heroin trade -- their profits are thought to have helped fund last year's war. If they were to return home, there would be little the cash-starved and understaffed UN mission could do to control the movement of drugs and guns.

"All of a sudden, there was a drastic void in Kosovo after the war," said Bruce Lloy, an RCMP officer and chief press spokesman with the UN police in Pristina. "I would have moved in too."

Two to six tonnes of heroin are thought to move along the Balkan route every month, providing 80% of Europe's heroin supply. The drug originates in Taleban-controlled Afghanistan, Iran and eastern Turkey, from where it flows to western Turkey. From there it moves through Bulgaria, west to Albania via Macedonia and Kosovo or north through central Europe. The entire journey takes a week to 10 days.

The U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency says that by 1998, Kosovo Albanians had become the second most important group on the Balkan route, after the Turkish mafia. "Kosovo Albanians make the perfect mafia -- even better than the Sicilians," said Marko Nicovic, vice-president of the New York-based International Narcotics Enforcement Agency.

"They are a small ethnic group made up of clans or families that have very close to family relations. The brotherhood, or Fic, is impenetrable by outsiders. It is difficult to find translators to work with police and impossible to get an informer or agent inside the organizations."

The Kosovo Albanian heroin dealers are typically made up of groups of fewer than 100 members of an extended family. Mr. Nicovic, former chief of the Belgrade narcotics squad, said they are ideally situated to benefit from the trade because, facing discrimination at home over the past few decades, members of the same families have settled in both Turkey and western Europe, at either end of the Balkan route.

[Pallas180]

252. Apparently it hasn't occurred to anyone to make

the drugs legal - they then could be controlled and taxed...just
as liquor was..

the drugs since they are legally allowed would then be cheap, and take the huge profits away from the criminals and the governments.

Meanwhile with every package of drugs having "the cigarette notice" imprinted on it and equal advertising.

Notice how it put a dent in the tobacco industry.

Course since we have a government who runs its secret wars and agencies, apparently, through drug trafficing, that wouldn't happen
unless they were exposed. . . . .

[RebelYell]

251. Answer to your question

Mike Ruppert, From the Wilderness said that:

"Until February, Afghanistan had been the world's largest producer of opium/heroin, claiming close to 70% of the world's total production. That opium, consumed largely in Western Europe and smuggled through the Balkans, was a direct source of cash deposits in Western financial institutions and markets.

I specifically commented on this at an economic crisis conference in Moscow, Russia on March 7. In my formal statement to the Russian conference I said,

(insert paragraph "Just before coming to this conference etc.")

[Pallas180]

253. REB - I dont get it.

If Ruppert is a cop, what's he doing traveling all over the world to
"economic crisis conferences" etc etc.

Something else is going on there.

??

[RebelYell]

255. Ruppert is former LAPD, not sure when he left, had something

to do with his girlfriend, she was CIA. The original name of his website was Cop vs. CIA.

Edit to add, his girlfriend offered him a piece of the CIA drug action.

[RebelYell]

257. Mike Ruppert's background

"This is the man who cost CIA Director Deutch his guaranteed appointment as Secretary of Defense after confronting him at Locke High School with hard facts about CIA dealing drugs." - Dick Gregory
~~~~~~~~
OPENING REMARKS OF
MICHAEL C. RUPPERT

for the

Senate Select Committee on Intelligence

(WRITTEN STATEMENT WITH EXHIBITS)

Statement and Exhibits here:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ciadrugs/ssci.html

Mr. Chairman:

On November 15, 1996, I stood at a town hall meeting at Locke High School in Los Angeles and said to Director of Central Intelligence John Deutch, "I am a former Los Angeles Police narcotics detective. I worked South Central Los Angeles and I can tell you, Director Deutch, emphatically and without equivocation, that the Agency has dealt drugs in this country for a long time." I then referred Director Deutch to three specific Agency operations known as Amadeus, Pegasus and Watchtower.

~~~~~~~~

(Ruppert is an honest bad ass former cop with guts. I've read his articles for over 3 years. I'll be googling Amadeus, Pegasus and Watchtower to explain them - CIA drug ops.)

[RebelYell]

258. This is a good article

from Portland Indy Media:

CIA DRUG TRAFFICKING

As hard as it is to believe for many people, one of the CIA's primary roles is to support the United States economy by bringing illegal drugs into this country. How can this be, you ask? Well, one of the CIA's main responsibilities is to provide much needed cash flow for banks and stock trading houses. If you find this relationship hard to swallow, why did six of the first seven CIA directors come directly from Wall Street, with many others having strong ties to the banking community? What does being an Intelligence director have to do with high-finance? The answer can be found with George Bush, Sr. His father, Prescott, was a financial director for the Brown Brothers Harriman subsidiary (Union Banking Company) that directly financed Hitler before and during WWII by laundering money for the Nazi War Machine.

But let's get back to the importance of drug trafficking and money. In a January, 2001 report, it was disclosed that $1.5 trillion/year is laundered through the world's banking system, and that approximately $500-600 (about 1/3) comes from the drug trade. then, is to make sure as much drug money comes into our economy as possible.

Ruppert even goes so far as to say that drugs are the biggest growth industry in America, and that the growth of many multinational companies and international banks was financed through the sale of illegal drugs. And who's the leader in laundering this narcotics money? American banks. To support this stake, Ruppert references a survey of top business and banking leaders. 99 out of 100 of these corporate leaders said that it would be better to keep $500/year of laundered money going through the system than it would be to stop the flow of illegal drugs into our country. For, if we stopped laundering this money, mutual funds would plummet, the stock market would crash, and any possibility of paying off our national debt would be futile (as it already is). We are, regrettably, addicted to drug profiteering in this country.

To further blow your minds, guess what companies are exempt BY LAW from money laundering:

1) Banks
2) The CIA
3) Publicly listed companies that trade on the New York Stock Exchange!

Ruppert backs this up with reports filed by the Government in relation to a United States corporate drug money laundering conference! And if you watch this video, you'll be astounded by which companies were represented at this conference. He also gives examples of how internationally recognized banks buy notorious drug-laundering institutions for the simple reason of getting better access to the free-flow of cash, plus names three specific CIA sponsored drug-running operations: Amadeus, Pegasus, and Watchtower. If this isn't enough, Ruppert provides a memo dated February 11, 1982 where Attorney General William Casey tells CIA Director William French Smith how his organization can get away with dealing drugs without having to report it in any official format. He also has DOCUMENTED proof of $1 billion worth of cocaine being found on a CIA jet in Mexico City, and how DEA Agent Castillo saw CIA planes unloading drugs from 1985-86. Upon reporting his findings DIRECTLY to George Bush, Sr., he was told, "Leave it alone, it's a White House operation!" Can you see what's going on? In no uncertain terms, our very own government is running drugs into our country to poison its own citizens. The CIA and the U.S. Government are drug dealers, plain and simple!

Why do you think we're so obsessed with Afghanistan, a remote, desolate country that is, by all appearances, not very remarkable? But you have to see things the way our government does. Before 1980, Afghanistan produced 0% of the world's opium. But then the CIA moved in, and by 1986 they were producing 40% of the world's heroin supply. By 1999, they were churning out 3,200 TONS of heroin a year – nearly 80% of the total market supply.

But then something unexpected happened. The Taliban rose to power, and by 2000 they had destroyed nearly all of the opium fields. Production dropped from 3,000+ tons to only 185 tons, a 94% reduction! This enormous drop in revenue subsequently hurt not only the CIA's Black Budget projects, but also the free-flow of laundered money in and out of the Controller's banks. If you ask me, it seems like these powerful folks didn't like this turn of events (and the easy money being taken out of their pockets). So, to retaliate, we went to war with them, and now guess what's happening. The Afghanistan Northern Alliance, backed by the CIA, chased the Taliban out and re-planted all the opium crops again. Even more horrifying is that while the opium crops were destroyed, the Afghanistan farmers were planting actual FOOD crops such as wheat so that their people could eat. But then the CIA went in, dug-up the wheat, and re-seeded the opium fields. Y'know, when you think about these actions, it's pretty downright sickening. So now the Afghanistan rebels run the poppy fields, and everything is back to normal (albeit a very dirty, corrupt normalcy).

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/280064.shtml

[RebelYell]

254. Date of conference was March 7, 2002 n/t

[robertpaulsen]

269. Rebel Yell, this is fantastic research!

I saw a video tape at a local rental that was a documentary featuring Mike Ruppert about 9/11. This was about a year ago, wasn't too sure who he was, now I've got to go back and rent it.

What a wealth of info you found, Rebel Yell! You and Pallas have highlighted a lot of the pertinent info already, but I also thought it would be good to mention to keep Lt. Gen. Nasir and Mr. Sharif listed from the B. Ramen citation. I tried clicking on the link:

www.indianembassy.org/int_media/saag_september_04_2000.html

But it didn't work for me. So if we can get more info on these individuals, it might be very fruitful for us.

Also, check out my post 256. Considering the info you found about bin Laden being a "narco-terrorist" its no surprise his path keeps crossing with Dawood Ibrahim.

[robertpaulsen]

276. Now the link works.

Here's the info I was looking for:

The Abu Sayyaf group of the southern Philippines, which recently kidnapped many foreign tourists and is still retaining some of them, including an American tourist, whom it accuses of being a CIA officer, was trained and armed in Pakistan, by Lt.Gen. (retd) Javed Nasir, who was the Director-General of the ISI during Mr.Nawaz Sharif's first tenure as the Prime Minister and who was sacked by Mr.Sharif along with many other ISI officers in the first half of 1993 on the demand of the US because of his involvement in the training of foreign terrorist groups and his non-cooperation with the CIA in buying back the unused Stinger missiles from the Afghan Mujahideen.

http://www.indianembassy.org/int_media/saag_september_04_2000.html

Abu Sayyaf: Filipino al Qaeda. Wonder if these characters were in town when Terry Nichols paid a visit? Or do I have the wrong country?

[RebelYell]

286. Thanks for fixing the link

I couldn't get it to work either

[RebelYell]

284. "The Most Dangerous Man in the World"

by Gilbert King, Chamberlain Brothers, New York, 2004, Pages 120

Pakistan-based alleged Indian mob boss Dawood Ibrahim is a more sinister ideological twin of Osama bin Laden if a new book on the man is anything to go by. Much of the information in this slim volume on a gangster with enormous international influence should come as no surprise to any keen watcher of the South Asian crime scene.

~~~~~~~~

While Ibrahim leads a life of extreme privilege if growing mortal danger in the cities of Karachi and Islamabad, bin Laden subsists in the dusty caves along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Unlike bin Laden’s famously austere if violent life, Ibrahim is said to lead a bohemian lifestyle crowded with all the appurtenances of a decadent billionaire: fabulous homes, “best virgins money can buy,” poolside parties, expensive clothes and access to the social and political elites of Pakistan society.

“Few have heard of Dawood Ibrahim, despite his status as a billionaire gangster, an Islamic extremist and global terrorist, a nuclear black market entrepreneur and a protector of Osama bin Laden,” says a press release from the publishers.

~~~~~~~~

The book’s key claims are that Ibrahim had played a role in the kidnapping of the slain Wall Street Journal correspondent Daniel Pearl, helping hide bin Laden after the fall of the Taliban in Afghanistan, executing the 1993 serial blasts in Bombay that killed over 300 people and injured over a 1000 others and establishing a nuclear black market. The last claim is extraordinary given its enormous consequences.

http://desitalk.newsindia-times.com/2004/08/13/books-top28.html

"establishing a nuclear black market"

[RebelYell]

287. Thanks, RP

I think Ruppert and Hopsicker are credible for the most part because they knock on doors and actually investigate (what a concept!). They name names.

[ShaneGR]

233. So ummmm, what's going on with the Grand Jury?

Anyone know?

[RebelYell]

239. Fitzgerald continues to subpoena journalists

and the journalists continue to fight the subpoenas

[H2O Man]

262. Information on the Plame case

is not on the Plame Threads. However, there are two other threads: one called "Plamegate," which takes the Tommy Moore/Pete Best approach; and the "Plastic Ono Plame" thread, which has a lower east side influence.

[robertpaulsen]

263. H2O, you forgot the Jefferson AirPlame thread.

You know, the one with the San Francisco/acid influence.

:hippie:

[Me.]

264. "The Ship of State is Leaking Like a Sieve" says Ambassador Wilson

Ambassador Wilson was just on CNN with Blitzer and talked about three major leaks in one year; Plame. the Iran codes and Khan. He also called on the president to have his people release the journalists from confidentiality or lose their employment/security status.

[robertpaulsen]

266. Wow! Great catch, Me! What else did he say?

Anything else? Did he say when he thought the grand jury might wrap up, if he liked the progress being made? Were there any updates on which journalists have testified? Anything on Mathews testifying Rove said "Wilson's wife is fair game"?

Sorry, Me, don't mean to throw the kitchen sink at you. If Wilson was here, I'd do the same to him.

[Me.]

278. He Wasn't Given A Great Deal of Time

In fact this interview was originally scheduled for last Friday but got bumped by the hurricane. It was a nuanced conversation, on Wilson's part, and seemed to go right past Blitzer. He had two main points to make:
that there have been three serious leaks in a year and, if the issue of the 1st amendment is troubling, then Bush could solve the matter by getting his people to release the journalists from confidentiality. And as there are some who refuse, he didn't say who, he essentially said they should lose their security clearances, hence their jobs. He believes journalists should, in general, be protected by the 1st amendment, but as this is a case against the state, not his wife, the pResisent could present the solution. When Blitzer said, that since Libby released 2 journalists, he assumed that cleared Libby. Wilson said something like he didn't say that which essentially I took to mean that he was saying to Blitzer that Libby was still in the cross hairs. Those were the main points. As I said, he wasn't given a large amount of time, but I believe I've given you the main gist of it.

[Pallas180]

279. Thanks me. Joe Wilson

is playing hardball.

he's obviously a bulldog

[coeur_de_lion]

267. H2O, what the heck have you guys been doing while I was gone?

Did you link Cheney to John Lennon's murder yet?

Has anybody found the link yet between the Bush family and the author of the Da Vinci Code? Opus Dei?

Is it true that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz (together with George Martin)engineered the ousting of Pete Best?

I don't want to go starting rumors, but I did hear that John Ashcroft is suppressing information on the death of Stuart Sutcliffe.

I fully expected to hear one day on this thread that Condi Rice and Brian Epstein are having a mad affair and Ashcroft is jealous -- that is why 9/11 happened, not because of Osama Bin Laden. I'm totally surprised no one figured that one out yet.

[RebelYell]

268. Don't you know?

Israel did 9/11 :)

Edited to add smiley, don't want to get banned

[Pallas180]

271. My opinion is Pappy paid off the boyz to make a splash for Jr. :)

:)

edited to add smiley and to sound like "lower east side".

[Pallas180]

272. RP - could you give us an opinion with a Jefferson AirPLAME flavor?

:hi:

[robertpaulsen]

274. Somebody to Leak?

Tears are running, ah running down your breast
And your VP, he treats you like a pest!

Don't you want somebody to leak?
Don't you need somebody to leak?
Wouldn't you want somebody to leak?
You better find somebody to leak.

Eat your heart out, Grace Slick!

[Pallas180]

281. Uh - RP

I dont think Marvin Hamlisch has to worry. big grin and chuckling.

[kohodog]

275. Up against the wall Rove & Cheney!

[robertpaulsen]

277. Ooo...good one, kohodog!

Rove and Cheney are mofos indeed.

[Pallas180]

296. Hope Plame case doesnt go like this: :Rummy off the hook:

Rumsfeld escapes blame in 'whitewash'

Abu Ghraib report

By Julian Coman in Washington
(Filed: 15/08/2004)


A Pentagon report on prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison is being labelled a whitewash before it has even been released.


Dog soldier: the U.S. are accused of prisoner mistreatment
The report is the result of the internal inquiry launched by Gen George Fay in April after the now notorious images of mistreated Iraqi prisoners were broadcast around the world. Critics are arguing that its final conclusions, some of which were leaked last week to the Baltimore Sun, amount to a deliberate cover-up to protect senior military and civilian figures in the Pentagon.

Due to be published by the end of the month, the report will call for disciplinary procedures to be launched against up to two dozen military intelligence officers, all of whom arrived at Abu Ghraib last October, when the worst abuses began. But no action against senior military figures will be called for.

Even more controversially, the role of the Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, has been judged to be outside the investigation's remit, despite allegations that extreme treatment of prisoners was authorised at the highest levels. Last month, Brig-Gen Janis Karpinski, the commander formerly in charge of Abu Ghraib, alleged that Mr Rumsfeld had authorised the use of "dogs, food deprivation and sleep deprivation".

"This is a whitewash - a carefully orchestrated one," said a lawyer who has liaised with military officials involved in the case. "People in the Pentagon have been coming to me in a fury because of the way this has been handled. By naming military intelligence officials as well as the seven military police who have been charged, it will look like action has been taken. But basically it's still the same storyline of just a few bad apples, way down the food chain."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...

[RebelYell]

303. That's what I'm talking about

Teflon coated bad guys

[RebelYell]

288. H20, I've had a few drinks tonight and I'm feeling a little low

Why should I continue to think anything will come of the Plame case? The bad guys haven't lost a fight in a long time.

Encourage me.

[kohodog]

292. Hey Reb,

Keep your head up! I've said it before, but the media is anesthetizing us, dumbing us down. I know I pay too much attention and it bums me out. But Watergate didn't happen overnight and this won't either. It is up to us to be persistent, vigilant and vocal because the press has deserted for the most part. If Plame doesn't materialize, Abu Garib or the Chalabi/Iran treason will. Or maybe it will be Haliburton and Cheney or a myriad of other possibilities. I've focused on Plame because it seems the farthest along with the biggest possibility for bringing them down.

I'm not enthralled with Kerry but he's a whole lot better than bush and it's a start.

But your posts have been awesome and helped keep me going.

[RebelYell]

302. Thanks, kohodog

I appreciate the encouragement and your hard work here too.

[H2O Man]

295. We should talk tomorrow.

I do not drink, and so we might not communicate well right now. (grin) I'm not "anti-alcohol" per say ..... and I may actually drink a beer on election night. Then you'll have to listen to me sing old songs from the United Irishmen!!! But .... those who are still involved in the Plame case know that things are going well. Wouldn't change places with the other side.

[RebelYell]

298. I seem to remember

you saying you were going out for a bottle once, on one of the early threads. Or was that someone else?

In any event, I was reading Hunter Thompson tonight. He says Bush is going to cancel NFL football this Fall, along with the election. He also said it's the year of the Chimp. Heh.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=thompson/040727

[H2O Man]

299. I believe I threatened to .....

....kind of tongue in cheek. I get higher than a kite on meditation and prayer. Why, just yesterday, I was absolutely glowing ..... although that was likely from all the x-rays I had in the afternoon.

[RebelYell]

300. Red wine, in moderation, is good for you

X-rays are not

[H2O Man]

301. "One man's moderation

is another man's downfall." - James D. Morrison. Gotta love those Irish poets. Short life expectancy, but they packa lot of living in!

No, I'm no fan of prolongered series or x-rays. Nor I'm I particularly pleased when the x-ray technician begins trying to debate me on why the doctor's orders don't make sense, and grumbles and mumbles under her breath until the process is over, and when she looks at the said x-rays, says, "Holy shit! Now I see."

Ah, well, enough complaining. Back to work before I try to get some sleep. (I again stress that I do NOT recommend being struck by an automobile at 55 mph. I assume Pallas will contradict this, and say it's a GOOD time to get hit by an automobile going 55 mph, because mars in is the oven, and quote John saying there's nazis just below the stairs. But trust me! Avoid getting hit!)

[Pallas180]

304. H20

No I will not contradict you.

You're doing that quite well all by yourself.

I believe in giving all who so choose, enough rope.....

I would just say that the planet Mercury is retrograde and as I have
noted to all before, Mercury's province is communication,and speech,
and writing.

It is said when Mercury is retrograde foot in mouth disease is common.

I thought you said upthread, you were not going to participate in these threads anymore because you dont believe Plame leads to Edmonds and 911. It appeared to many that you were saying you were going to pick up your marbles and go home, cause the game wasn't being played the way you wanted it played. That was very disappointing. But each is free to post wherever and whatever. It is surprising though, that you believe in a scorched earth scenario though.

On Mercury retrograde, we often make wrong decisions that we later come to regret and say things we wish we hadn't. For instance, dimson's "they're looking for ways to destroy this country and so are we".

Well back to business, after all, this isn't an astrology thread.

[H2O Man]

306. I am not going to

participate in the "bush did 9-11" business. I am finishing a paper on my thoughts on 9-11. It's not an "anti-" those who believe differently.

I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding "scorched earth;" I suspect you might not be, either. But I'd be willing to listen to it.

I believe that the posts on here indicate that you, specifically, defined what the Plame Threads would be, and what they wouldn't be. Which is fine. Perhaps soon we'll be able to compare results.

There are others who are still interested in the issues regarding the Plame case. There are others who agree that a serious examination of 9-11 should include a study of bin Laden. I get DU e-mails from them, and I know what others are saying about me and the "taking my marbles home" silliness.(wink) Not much different than when I was a Black Panther. (grin) But I'm right here. Discussing Plame on another thread, because as you said, it's done for now on this thread.

I don't think that it's a problem for most people to have more than one thread. Nor will most people have a difficult time being able to accept that 9-11 happened in a slightly different way than you have determined. What might be the biggest problem would be the person who sent most of the silly e-mails, etc, saying, "opps! I did it again. Just like when I was convinced he was a black militant, or when I decided he hated rich folks, etc etc." But that's not a problem for me. I certainly don't hold grudges against people I'm fond of .... and I do like everyone on here. You're way better off having me point out errors now, than having a republican punch holes in some of your non-credible theories.

Now, regarding astrology: I certainly believe in it, although some people's interpretations may be off. I'm not well-versed at all. As I mentioned, my smarter brother is an astrologist. It's just that it is one of those subjects that you can tease people with. And so if today or tomorrow or in a hundred years you decide I'm not your enemy .... I'll still tease you about astrology.

[Pallas180]

270. Until further news on Plame,CURRENT FOCUS: EDMONDS STATEMENTS HERE:

CURRENT FOCUS: EDMONDS STATEMENTS HERE:


Okay, Let's focus again: Sibel Edmonds

Whether you are solving a question or writing a story, the questions
you ask are: Who, What, When, Where, Why.

The Why of Plame has brought us also to Sibel Edmonds.

In the same way we found the answers to Plame on the internet through googling and finding published responsbile sources, we should be able to find answers and secrets involving Edmonds' "forbidden information.

Except - in the Edmonds matter we know Why - we are searching for Who?, What?, and Where?

Our clues to what she may have discovered (which caused her to be fired and threatened not to talk to the media or any senators and prompted FBI Director Mueller to have DOJ Ashcroft place a gag order on her) are in Sibel Edmonds' own words are in two interviews here,

It is important to read this interview.


http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=2917


Somewhere in the fact that Sibel Edmonds was a translator of the Iranian Farsi language and the Turkish language and the Turkic language of Azerbaijani, are our clues to Who? and What? and even Where? .

What are the answers to Who and What and Where she is referring?


Here are other Edmonds quotes,

“There are certain points... where you have your drug related activities combined with money laundering and information laundering, converging with your terrorist activities.” Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?



"The 9/11 terror plot intersected with the activities of a drug trafficking network of international scope, in ways that form a "crystal clear" picture of what was going on.” --Sibel Edmonds.


"You have a network of people who obtain certain information and they take it out and sell it to … whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East, and their connections. It is only then that you really see the big picture. The post-9/11 ntelligence 'failures' included the willful quashing by the government, of investigations tracing these criminal networks.-- Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator



WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?


“The real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal… Everything from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And yes, there are certain convergences (between) these activities and international terrorism." -Sibel Edmonds

“After almost three years the American people still do not know that thousands of lives can be jeopardized under the unspoken policy of ‘ protecting certain foreign business relations.” —Sibel Edmonds


WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?

[Pallas180]

273. AND THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG - which includes

Plame, Edmonds, Khan, and a lot of nasty secrets surfacing.

[robertpaulsen]

280. These 9/11 timelines should help us in our research.

This might help as a reference guide for when we want to follow a particular lead.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

And here's Michael Ruppert's timeline:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html

[Pallas180]

282. The FIB wishes it had such good analysts & investigators <G>

Kudos to you guys

:toast:

What I think would really be intersting would be if Mike Ruppert and
Sibel Edmonds got together and filled in the blanks for each other.

[Pallas180]

289. CSpan interviewing Carlucci & Schlesinger for intel reform suggestions Why

dont they interview Sibel Edmonds? they might get the real answers.

[Zan_of_Texas]

290. Facts on poppy production in Afghanistan

According to this, the heroin pipeline involves half a million people. And, the post-US Afghanistan has greatly increased the spread of poppy growing, compared to pre-Taliban Afghanistan.


‘Afghanistan at risk of becoming a failed, narco state’

* Produces three-quarters of global opium, warns a UN report

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-10-2003_pg4_15

Daily Times from Pakistan Nov 3 2003

KABUL: Afghanistan, the world’s leading producer of opium, risks becoming a failed state once again in the hands of drugs cartels and narco-terrorists, the United Nations warned Wednesday.
Opium cultivation was virtually eradicated in 2001 by the hard-line Taliban regime, but since it was forced from power two years ago, Afghanistan has massively resumed harvesting and now accounts for three-quarters of global opium production, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime said in its latest annual report.

“The country is clearly at a crossroads. Either major surgical drug-control measures are taken now, or the drug cancer in Afghanistan will keep spreading and metastatise into corruption, violence and terrorism,” UN anti-drugs chief Antonio Maria Costa said in the report. “There is a palpable risk that Afghanistan will again turn into a failed state, this time in the hands of drugs cartels and narco-terrorists,” he added. In the war-ravaged country, this year the area under opium poppy cultivation increased by eight percent, from 74,000 hectares in 2002 to 80,000 in 2003, the Vienna-based body said in its report, due to be presented in Moscow on Wednesday.

Opium production went up by six percent, from 3,400 to 3,600 tonnes. Even more alarmingly, 28 out of 32 provinces in Afghanistan now harvest the drug crop, up from 18 provinces in 1999, as cultivation spreads outside the traditional eastern and southern producing areas. The total revenues earned by poppy farmers and traffickers amounted to more than half of Afghanistan’s gross domestic product of 4.4 billion dollars. “The income of Afghan opium farmers and traffickers was about 2.3 billion dollars, a sum equivalent to half the legitimate GDP of the country,” the report said.

“Out of this drug chest, some provincial administrators and military commanders take a considerable share: the more they get used to this, the less likely it becomes that they will respect the law, be loyal to Kabul and support the legal economy. “Terrorists take a cut as well, the longer this happens, the greater the threat to security within the country and on its borders,” Costa said. With up to 90 percent of heroin on the streets of Europe derived from Afghan opium, the international trafficking chain from Afghanistan to Western Europe has an estimated annual turnover of 30 billion dollars and involves half a million people. <snip> Opium poppy cultivation plays a direct role in the livelihood of about 1.7 million rural people, or about seven percent of the Afghan population of 24 million, it underlined. <snip>

[Pallas180]

293. Thanks Zan. Anyone have anything on poppy

growing in Azerbaijan ?

a country/language Sibel mentioned? or is it just the trade route?

the country sits between two seas. Seems a perfect conduit.

[Pallas180]

294. Uh -Oh - terrorist financed computer co. had access to US Govt agencies '

computers for two years before 9/11 - Hopsicker

http://www.madcowprod.com/index45.html

Whistleblower who realized the danger early on told to shut up.

February 5-- Venice, Florida.
by Daniel Hopsicker


A software company called Ptech, founded by a Saudi financier placed on America’s Terrorist List in October 2001, had access to the FAA’s entire computer system for two years before the 9/11 attack.
Last week, when the National 9/11 Commission held hearings on The Aviation Security System and the 9/11 Attack, government and aviation officials described a system unprepared for the events that unfolded on September 11. None of them, however, mentioned security breaches involving “Saudi terrorists in the basement of the FAA.”

Yet that's what happened, according to a high-level risk analyst who had troubling dealings with the firm.

"Ptech had a couple of very troubling client relationships," states risk architect and whistleblower Indira Singh, "one of which was with the FAA. One of the 'persons of interest' in the investigation had a team in the basement of the FAA for two years."

"P-tech worked on a project that revealed all information processes and issues that the FAA had with the National Airspace Systems Agency, NAS," Singh said.

continued...

[Zan_of_Texas]

297. Carlyle ~ FAA

I haven't chased this much further, but it would be interesting to know if this were the case on, say, 9-11-01.


FRONT PAGE STORY - April 5, 2003
http://the-news.net/cgi-bin/story.pl?title=US%20arms%20group%20heads%20for%20Lisbon&edition=697

THE PORTUGAL NEWS
US arms group heads for Lisbon

Directors of one of the world’s largest armament companies are planning on meeting in Lisbon in three weeks time. The American based Carlyle Group is heavily involved in supplying arms to the Coalition forces fighting in the Iraqi war. It also holds a majority of shares in the Seven Up company and Federal Data Corporation, supplier of air traffic control surveillance systems to the US Federal Aviation Authority. The 12 billion dollar company has recently signed contracts with United Defence Industries to equip the Turkish and Saudi Arabian armies with aviation defence systems.

[Pallas180]

305. Thanks ZAN - what an outrage.

"one of the world’s largest armament companies "

"American based Carlyle Group is heavily involved in supplying arms to the Coalition forces fighting in the Iraqi war."

pappy making a fortune from a little nepotism, from a war started in order to profiteer - and junior's "stocks" are reportedly not in publicly traded companiesbut in a private company (gee, I wonder what company that could be) and are held in a "private" blind trust.

"Federal Data Corporation, supplier of air traffic control surveillance systems to the US Federal Aviation Authority. The 12 billion dollar company has recently signed contracts with United Defence Industries to equip the Turkish and Saudi Arabian armies with aviation defence systems. "

You know what I thougt of when I read of this and Ms. Singh, the whistle blower on this?

It sounds like that program "Promis" that AG Meese stole from the developer, and was sold around the world. Pappy also gave it to
Saddam and other foreign govts. It's a program that can go inthe back dooor of any other program, such as making transfers of funds, banking, tracking what and where the enemy is. Sounds like its been
adjusted to do many other things.

[Pallas180]

307. THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED. PLS GO TO PLAME # 20 HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2225780#2225954