PLAME INDICTMENTS #14 -High Crimes & Misdemeanors -"The Tip Of The Iceberg

[Pallas180]

The Waterman Paper

(as published on the Home Page of Democratic Underground July 24, 2004)

The Waterman Paper July 24, 2004
By H2O Man


This paper examines the possibility that Vice President Dick Cheney orchestrated the "leaking" of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity to the news media in the summer of 2003, in order to accomplish three goals.

These include (1) to punish Joseph Wilson for challenging "16 words" in President Bush's 1-28-03 State of the Union address; and (2) to intimidate other sources from publicly challenging the White House's version of events involving the "war on terrorism" and the US invasion of Iraq. Both of these goals are well-known from numerous reports on this White House scandal.

The other, (3) is that VP Cheney was attempting to derail an investigation that Plame may have been involved in at the time that her identity was exposed. This third potential goal has not been the subject of any major media attention.
The author of this paper put it forward on an internet forum, the Democratic Underground, in early July, 2004. The resulting eleven DU "threads," which consist of over 3,000 posts from interested citizens across the country, is the only known forum debating this theory.

Besides the eleven DU "Plame Indictment" threads, the information in this paper comes from the following four sources: The Politics of Truth, by Joseph Wilson; Worse Than Watergate, by John Dean; Don't Tread on Joseph Wilson, NYT book review by John Dean on 5-23-04; and Plenty to Swear About, by Joe Klein, Time, 7-5-04.

Time Line

While the case involving Wilson's investigation in Niger, and the White House's efforts to expose Plame is long and complicated, this paper will focus on a "time line" established by Wilson in his book.

1. Jan '02: The first reports of a Niger-Iraq uranium connection surface in the White House.

2. Feb '02: Wilson is asked to investigate by the CIA.

3. March '02: Wilson returns from Niger and briefs the CIA on the investigation. His conclusion supports those of two others that there was no Niger-Iraq connection.

4. Jan '03: Bush includes the "16 words" in his State of the Union address.

5. On or about March 5, '03: the CIA gives VP Cheney an oral report, informing him of Wilson's conclusions.

6. March 7, '03: the IAEA announces the US's documents on Niger-Iraq are forgeries.

7. March 8, '03: (a) a State Department spokesperson admits, "We fell for it" in regard to the forged document; (b) Wilson tells CNN that the State Department has more information on the subject; and (c) a workshop meeting is held in VP Cheney's office. It is attended by top republican officials, possibly including Cheney, Scooter Libby, and Newt Gingrich. The group discusses ways to discredit Wilson.

8. June 8, '03: Condoleeza Rice denies knowledge of the weakness of the Niger uranium claim on Meet The Press. She states, "Maybe someone down in the bowels of the Agency knew about this, but nobody in my circles."

9. July 6, '03: Wilson's NYT op-ed is published. By the following day, two senior White House officials began contacting at least six reporters, informing them of Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA operative.

10. July 8, '03: Reporter Robert Novak tells a complete stranger on a Washington street: "Wilson's an asshole. The CIA sent him. His wife, Valerie, works for the CIA. She's a weapons of mass destruction specialist. She sent him." In the following days, Novak would ask the CIA for confirmation of Plame's identity. He was asked not to print her name or identity in any article regarding Wilson.

11. July 14, '03: Novak's article exposes Plame.

12. July 20, '03: NBC's Andrea Mitchell tells Wilson that senior White House officials told her that the "real story" was not the 16 words, but was Wilson and his wife.

13. July 21, '03: NBC's Chris Matthews tells Wilson that Karl Rove called him and said," Wilson's wife is fair game." Matthews said he would confirm that if asked.

This time line indicates that while the exposing of Plame's identity was a result of Wilson's op-ed, it was also part of a larger strategy that had been planned in VP Cheney's office since March 8. It clearly confirms goal #1: by exposing Plame, and putting her safety at risk, the White House had severely punished Joseph Wilson.
It also supports goal #2: the White House had a strategy to intimidate any other potential intelligence operatives from exposing the administration for distorting information regarding Iraq.

Likewise, the exposing of Plame supports goal #3: exposing Plame put an immediate end to any activities that Plame was participating in at the time. This is supported by Wilson (pg 345): "She immediately began to prepare a checklist of things she needed to do to minimize the fall-out to the projects she was working on."

Also, Wilson notes: "Compromising the officer means compromising a career, a network, and every person with who the officer might have ever worked. Slips of the tongue cost people their lives." (pg 13)

The Leakers' Identities

Robert Novak sourced his story to two senior White House officials. Other reporters, including Andrea Mitchell, made mention of the two unidentified senior White House officials. These two are among the at least six reporters contacted by these two officials.
Chris Matthew's call identifies Karl Rove as being involved in the efforts to make "Wilson's wife ... fair game." This call took place after the calls from the senior officials to the six reporters.
Wilson's book indicates a belief that the two senior officials were Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Eliot Abrams. Abrams is no stranger to White House disgrace, having been convicted on two charges during the Iran-Contra scandal.

There is evidence the three were operating with the knowledge of, and perhaps under the direction of VP Cheney. The March 8 "workshop" in VP Cheney's office indicates that this was a long-standing, well-organized effort to discredit Wilson. As Wilson notes (pg 387) : "... a plan to attack me had been formed before the moment. It was cocked and ready to fire .... an organized smear campaign directed from the highest reaches of the White House."

Cheney and Pre-War Intelligence

Those involved in the "workshop" to discredit Wilson were also active in efforts to influence pre-war intelligence reports. On page 6, Wilson discusses "leaks" that Cheney, Libby, and Newt Gingrich pressured the intelligence community "to skew intelligence analysists" to fit their own needs.

On page 338, Wilson notes that these three reportedly intimidated analysts by implying, "if you do a 'Wilson' on us, we will do worse to you."

Wilson notes (pg 434) that VP Cheney runs a "parallel national security office," which has no congressional oversight, and hence can "circumvent long-standing and accepted reporting structures and to skew decision-making practices."

As a result, as reported by Joe Klein in Time (7-5-04) "the intelligence community is at war with the White House." Klein notes that "multiple intelligence sources" indicated to him their belief that Cheny strong-armed out-going CIA Director George Tenet, to make him support Cheney and Rumsfeld's positions on Iraq.

Cheney, Niger, and Wilson's Trip

Wilson notes a report on a possible Niger-Iraq yellow cake uranium transaction had "aroused the interests of Vice President Dick Cheney." (pg 14) Cheney's office "had tasked the CIA to determine if there was any truth to the report." (pg 14)

It is clear that Cheney was aware of the Niger report, and had directed his office to have the CIA do an investigation of it. There is evidence that on March 5, the CIA gave VP Cheney an oral report on Wilson's findings. This was three days before the State Department spokesperson told the media, "We fell for it," and that Wilson told CNN that the State Department had more information on that subject. March 8 was also the day that the "workshop" to discredit Wilson was held in Cheney's office.

"What I Didn't Find" vs "16 Words"

The White House retracted President Bush's infamous 16 words immediately after Wilson's op-ed appeared in the New York Times.
On 7-13-03, Condi Rice told Fox News Sunday that, "It is ludicrous to suggest that the president of the United States went to war on the question of whether Saddam Hussein sought uranium from Africa."
On 7-14-03, Robert Novak exposed Valerie Plame's identity. It is important to recognize that Novak was aware that Plame was an operative who specialized in WMDs, and that he had been asked by the CIA not to reveal her identity, or even print her name, in an article on Wilson.

The White House continued to engage in efforts to discredit Wilson, including sending three identical e-mails of "talking points" to Keith Olbermann when Wilson was appearing on MSNBC's Countdown.
1982 Intelligence Identity Protection Act

Wilson notes that the administration had already acknowledged the Niger-Iraq link was unsubstantiated, and that logically, they should have focused attention on how the 16 words made their way into the president's State of the Union address. The effort to expose Plame's identity made little sense. (pg 7)

Later, he continues with, "The White House gained nothing by publicizing Valerie's name..." (pg 7)
"Then it struck me that the attack by Rove and the administration on my wife had little to do with her, but a lot to do with others who might be tempted to speak out." (pgs 5-6)
"The decision of the president's people to come after me .... arose from no concerns over the emergence of secrets from my mission -- there weren't any." (pg 339)
"However offensive, there was a certain logic to it. If you have something to hide, one way to keep it secret is to threaten anyone who might expose it. But it was too late to silence me." (pg 338)


Goal #3: Why Cheney Exposed Plame

Wilson notes that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor, pointed out that since the Bush people had never backed down before, the fact that they had been "so quick to admit their error this time meant they must have something more important to protect." (pg 4)

In Worse Than Watergate, John Dean calls the exposing of Plame the "Dirtiest of Dirty Tricks." He writes that "revealing her identity damaged the national security and her career, and resulted in the loss of a valuable government asset." He called this action "literally life-threatening." (pgs 170-171)

What could have possibly been so important to VP Cheney that he oversaw the violating of the 1982 IIPA, and risked a White House scandal? The answer clearly can not be found in goals #1 or #2.
The answer, which supports goal #3, appears in Klein's article: "Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. ..... 'Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll' of the CIA, an intelligence source told me."

And that very high-ranking official may have known through his parallel national security office about the activities that Plame was involved with at that time. The answer to goal #3 likely is to be found in the checklist of things Valerie Plame did to mitigate the damage done by Novak's article immediately after she read it.

Conclusions

This paper presents direct evidence that the intelligence group that operates out of VP Cheney's office orchestrated the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, in order to realize goal #1, the "punishing" of Joseph Wilson for publicly challenging President Bush.

It includes both direct and circumstantial evidence from sources including Wilson, Dean, Klein, and others, that indicates they also had goal #2 in mind: to intimidate any other potential sources that could challenge their reasons for invading Iraq, as well as other measures in their "war on terorism."

Yet these two goals alone do not explain why VP Cheney would (1) take part in a measure that would violate a federal law against exposing a CIA operative, or (2) risk a serious scandal for the Bush Administration.

The possibility that VP Cheney was hoping to derail a sting operation involving Valerie Plame, which is our identified goal #3, does explain why VP Cheney would condone the breaking of the federal law, and risk the most serious scandal that this administration faces.

Further research by an ad hoc DU "think tank" has identified possible connections between businesses connected to VP Cheney that may be associated with the sale of WMD components to countries in the Middle East. It is our belief that this theory and the evidence that supports it needs a more in-depth investigation.
At the time of publishing, the most recent message board thread on this subject can be found here:



PLAME INDICTMENTS - "HIGH CRIMES & MISDEMEANORS- THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG"


These links seem to work better if you open them in "Open In New Window"

Plame Indictments Thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 7
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 9
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 10
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 12
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Plame Indictments Thread 13
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2055363&mesg_id=2055363

[Pallas180]

1. 1 800 839 5276 TOLL FREE TO CAPITOL HILL

1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE TO CAPITOL HILL


and

www.congress.org - for a directory to ANYBODY on the Hill, AND their local/regional offices.

[Pallas180]

2. FOR DIRECTORY TO CONGRESS WWW CONGRESS.ORG

www.congress.org - for a directory to ANYBODY on the Hill, AND their

local/regional offices.

[Pallas180]

3. 12 PLAME THREADS IN MS WORD FORMAT

All 12 can be found here as MSWord ".doc"s:

http://www.aeschatech.com/dumpster/plame/

[Pallas180]

4. THE DANGER TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY by Waterman

Jul-25-04


The Revolutionary Presidency vs The Bill of Rights


1) Introduction

This paper will examine the dangers to constitutional democracy posed by the Bush Administration. It will review the concepts of separation of federal powers, the practice of the balancing of those powers, and scrutinize several areas where Bush/Cheney have corrupted this constitutional system that our democracy is based upon.

This paper will focus primarily on how the growing menace of an Imperial Presidency of the Nixon era has become the threatening reality of the Revolutionary Presidency today.

2) The Balance of Powers

A- The theories behind the constitutional democracy of the United States are the "distinctive American contribution(s) to the art of government." (The Imperial Presidency; Schelsinger; pg vii)

The idea of the 13 Colonies forming a confederate federal state came directly from meetings between Founding Fathers, primarily Ben Franklin, and the Grand Council of the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy. Jefferson was influenced by the Iroquois' concepts of the freedoms of individuals; these, along with the contributions of progressive European thought (found primarily in France), led to the Bill of Rights.

However, in European history, governments had assumed a unified authority that allowed them to control, and deny, basic human rights to citizens of the state. Jefferson and Madison and others created the more perfect union, which allowed citizens to control the government through a series of checks and balances implied in the separation of powers on the federal level.

B- The three branches of the federal government are the executive, legislative, and judiciary. These three are intended to form a balanced triangle. The separation of powers is not intended to make all three to be locked into an equal status; rather, it offers checks and balances that creates an inertia that keeps any one branch from assuming unlimited powers. The goal, according to Justice Brandis (Myers v US 1926) is "not to promote efficiency, but to preclude the exercise of arbitrary power."

The executive, or the office of the president, has the implied power to provide leadership in emergency situations. In our early history, from the Revolutionary to the Civil War, this power was used only to respond to threats to the safety of citizens ( re: pirate attacks, which generally came from Tripoli, and which share important parallels with today's situation) and wars with foreign nations.

In these cases, these emergency powers were onlyintended for a brief period, before congressional controls took over. The Senate is the seat of the actual war powers. Further, according to Supreme Court Justice James Wilson, "The House of Representatives ... forms the grand inquest of the state. They will dilegently inquire into grievences, arising both from men and things." (Grand Inquest; New York; 1961; pgs 22-30)

C- The history of democracy has been imperfect in the United States. The most basic rights have been denied to both groups and individuals, based upon their sex, age, race, and religion. Issues including gay marriage show that we still have a long way to go.

Yet, for all of its faults, our constitutional democracy has shown the greatest of promise. The efforts of each generation of Americans has brought us closer to providing the rights of free people to a larger, more inclusive population. This is a great nation.

From the Revolutionary to the Civil War was known as the "Golden Age" of the congress.Also, the sequence of presidents, and the series of federal courts moved the nation towards the promise of the Founding Fathers, found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

The reasons were found not only in those great documents, but in that separation and balance of powers at the federal level. These insured the Bill of Rights was a living entity. In fact, while many today note that President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil war, there "was no effective censorship, no Sedition Act, no Espiionage Act." (Schlesinger; pg 335)

However, after the Civil War, changes in the economy which were a result of the change from an agrarian to industrial national base, led directly to unprecedented influence of business on the national politics. This new level of extreme corruption led Mark Twain to refer to the phenomenon as the "Gilded Age" of politics.

It is important to note that all of industry would be connected, either directly or indirectly, to the production of oil. By 1870, all of the economies of the industrialized nations were based on oil. The significance of this is explored in greater detail in the book, "Farewell America."

D- Business interest rapidly became central to the decision-making processes of (1) citizens electing officials to the legislative and executive branches; and (2) the domestic and foreign policies of those elected officials in both branches. While the federal courts are defined as the branch that is supposed to "do the least harm to democracy," the changes in the executive and legislative branches created changes in the judiciary, just as surely as the pulling of two sides of a triangular mobile suspende above the crib of democracy.

Thus: (1) the president begins to increasingly dominate the legislative process; (2) the congress increasingly delegates its authority to the president; and (3) the federal courts tend to become "activist" to offset congressional impotence. And despite the best of intentions, and while acknowledging the value of many progressive decisions, the federal courts should not be "activist," as the dangers posed by current federal courts demonstrate.

3) Threats to our Constitutional Democracy

The deteriorative influences of business interests on the separation of federal powers accelerated during WW2. If we examine the relationship of the competition of the world economy on American political life, we can note a progression in the executive branch (including FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, & LBJ) moving towards the Imperial Presidency of the Nixon Era. The two areas where this threat to our constitutional democracy were concentrated were (a) the war powers, and (b) secrecy. (Schlesinger)

The history of the war powers in terms of the president responding to a threat to the nation's security evolved significantly after WW2. This was due to the influence of the military industrial complex. All American foreign policy, with the exception of some initial attempts by JFK which ended on 11-22-1963, equated the access to foreign resources with national security, and domestic security with bureaucratic secrecy.

This was in opposition to the 64th Federalist Paper, in which John Jay interpreted the Constitution to recognize but two needs for federal secrecy: (1) diplomatic negotiations, and (2) intelligence.

Democracy by its very nature demands the disclosure of information by all three branches of government. Even among the widely varying opinions of the Founding Fathers, there was complete agreement that the free diffusion of information was vital to insure a stable federal government.

Yet as the executive branch created an elastic definition of "national security," the presidents began a more undemocratic relationship with the bureaucracies of the military indistrial complex. And the instinct of bureaucracy is "to increase the superiority of the professionally informed by keeping their knowledge and intentions secret." (Max Weber: Essays in Sociology; Grath & Mills; New York; 1946)

4) External Threats to our Constitutional Democracy

The external threats to the USA from WW2 to the prsent tend to fit into three groups: the Nazi/ Axis powers; the communist menace; and the Islamic terrorist/"axis of evil" group of today. With the exceptions of Pearl Harbor and 9-11, all defined threats to our national interest tended to be defined as occuring in other countries, either to American business interests, or to trading partners. The cultural implications of Pearl Harbor and 9-11 are obvious.

Another external threat to our national security has become known to a large segment of our population through a cultural phenomenon, Michael Moore's movie "F 9-11." The threat is posed by foreign investments going beyond a few acres of land, or shares in a corporate stock. F 9-11 demonstrates clearly that a significant segment of our economy is controlled by foreign governments. One, for example, is Saudi Arabia. The Saudi royal family shows no appreciation for constitutional democracy.

Moore's movie demonstrates that the Saudi royal family is able to compromise the balance of powers in our federal government. Their influence with the Bush administration has stopped a serious investigation into what role they played in the 9-11 attack on the USA; allows them to manipulate what information becomes known to the American public; and interferes with the legal system, when James Baker represents the Saudis in a court action filed by the families of 9-11 victims.

5) The Revolutionary Presidency

The danger to our constitutional democracy could be measured in 2003 by the following: (a) the Bush administration was comprised almost exclusively by people with ties to business that define "conflicts of interest;" (b) both houses of congress, if not impotent, had at least agreed to a legislative abstinence of duty; the only elected representitives who attempted to stand up to the executive were from "minority" populations; and (c) the US Supreme Court had disgraced the judicial institution with its 2000 selection of Bush for president, based entirely upon political and economic interests.

The dangers of an imperial presidency pales in comparison to the current threat posed by the revolutionary presidency. Consider that: (a) George Bush has become the most absolute monarch of any world power in today's world. Add to that the fact that VP Cheney has more concentrated power than any dictator in world history, including Mao Tse-tung; (b)the congress is divided and weakened. The Senate has lost any control over the White House urge for increased war-making, and the House of Representatives no longer enquires into grievences, unless they concern issues such as oral sex rather than Enron, 9-11, the Plame exposure, or the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of black citizens in Florida; and (c) the idea of 13 Colonies demanding freedom of speech is disgraced by 13 states having "libel" laws making it illegal to express concerns about food farms, or the safety of related "agro-business" food products. (Crimes Against Nature; Robery Kennedy, Jr)

6) You Reap What You Sow

The Bush administration rules through fear, the "threats" to national security that they define, through manipulating the 9-11 national emergency, and through secrecy. Their policies pose a threat to individual liberties in order to benefit business interests, and they are the greatest threat to constitutional democracy today. The extent of this threat is exposed by a series of books associated with John Dean, Richard Clarke, Paul O'Neill, Robery Kennedy, Jr., and many others. It is also exposed to grass-roots America by the movie "F 9-11."

The reaction of the administration is to attempt to discredit the individuals involved in exposing the political corruption of this administration. This is not a new tactic. Before the FBI focused on Martin Luther King's sex life, before the COINTELPRO operations of the 1960s and '70s, we remember the efforts of two congressional leaders in the mid-50s. Senator Thomas Hennings, Jr. and Rep. John Moss questioned the bureaucratic secrecy that threatened the democratic system, by discussing why the government labled a Pentagon study of the bow & arrow ("Silent Flashless Weapons") as "top secret."
They were accused of threatening national security.

This administration and its corporate sponsors, including the news media, are involved in a similar campaign to discredit critics. This campaign includes Ambassador Joseph Wilson. (see Plame Indictment Threads #1-12)

An unintended consequence of the high level of bureaucratic secrecy is that it leads to no respect for individual secrecy. This is evident from a reading of the Patriot Act: things like medical and library records, which should be protected by the US Constitution, are no longer private.

Further, the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative stands as the moststark example of the administration's contempt for the rights to privacy implied by the Constitution.

7) Conclusion

At the time of the American Revolution, the "founding fathers" met in secret. They were almost exclusively from the "upper class," and needed to keep their actions secret from King George. While they may have spoken more openly as individuals, their group efforts were not known to the upper class, including the newspapers of the day.

However, the middle class and the poor spread the word. They were aware of King George's spies, so they spread the word on a democratic underground. It took root -- and grass roots democracy has been the most important part of the foundation for this country ever since. The grass roots are more powerful than those three branches of the federal government.

We're in similar circumstances today. Our president is no more in favor of democracy than old King George was. We have two chances of kicking him out of power. The most obvious is the election in November. But there's also the Plame Indictments.

If there is any life breath in the balance of powers, the legislative and judiciary must do their jobs. This is a criminal outfit. There are now numerous "upper class" people organizing to hold this administration liable for their crimes. It's not just democrats hoping to reclaim the presidency in 2004. It's a wide range of citizens who know that Bush and Cheney intend to fully destroy the constitutional democracy we should enjoy.

You and I aren't meeting in their secret get-togethers. We're that grass-roots democratic power. Our primary job is to continue to educate the public, register voters, and increase participation in those treasures defined by the Bill of Rights. Please work to spread the message about the Plame Indictments. We've seen a preview of the administration's late summer counter-offensive.

Let's expose them as totally offensive.

Thank you,
H2O Man

[Pallas180]

5. RECAP OF "WHY" PLAME>CHENEY>HALLIBURTON>ILLEGAL WMD TRADE

robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-25-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #52

55. RECAP-PALLAS THEORY OF WHY PLAME>CHENEY>HALLLIBURTON


3. A THEORY ON THE WHY - Plame -> Cheney->Halliburton


repost

A THEORY ON THE WHY - Plame -> Cheney->Halliburton

On my way home today, as I thought about the why the outing of Valerie Plame was necessary, I was so engrossed I drove 4 exits past my exit.

Here's what we know:

1) Valerie Plame was "active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of Weapons of Mass Destruction components"" when her identity was exposed by the White House. It also said" Only a high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge" that Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent.

2) Vice President Cheney since 1995 as CEO of Halliburton was fined 1.2 milion dollars for illegal sales of components to Libya which could be used for nuclear purposes. Shortly before becoming Vice President he bitterly assailed US policy against selling such components to Syrria and Iran, which apparently hurt Halliburton's bottom line.

3) There is an investigation of Vice President Cheney in other countries for illegal bribery and various other offenses connected to Halliburton as well as paying amounts to secret Swiss bank accounts

4)The Atomic Energy Commission has said a North American company is one of 20 being investigated for black market sales of WMD materials.

Here's the theory:

Valerie Plame was stopped in her tracks and the biggest treasonous taboo of revealing a CIA sting operation was done because she/it was coming close to discovering even more serious violations of the laws against trading nuclear materials with certain countries by our own Vice President and the Hallibuton company he has awarded billions of US taxpayer dollars to in non-bid contracts after he became VP.

Recently Libya was accused of having WMD components and the US threat
ened to invade unless Quaddaffi gave the WMD components to the US.
Bush 2 was seen on TV this week inspecting the cases of returned materials from Iraq triumphantly. The fact that Quaddafi received these illegal shipments of components from Cheney/Halliburton was not
mentioned in the victory video.

Dick Cheney, even after the Senate Intel Committee, The Atomic Commission and numerous other agencies have said no WMD exist in Iraq,
insists Iraq has WMD even in the last week.

Why? Because Dick Cheney knows he, through an offshore Halliburton company with a PO Box, at some time in the past sold Saddam Hussein WMD or components of WMD. In the same way "they" under Bush 1 adminstration sold Hussein lethal gas which he used, and then attacked him for using it saying he was a threat to the community.

Why do Cheney and Bush insist they must attack Syrria and Iran as the next step in making the world safe and that Syrria and Iran have
WMD? Cheney-Halliburton know that Syrria and Iran have WMD components because Cheney illegally sold the WMD components to Syrria and Iran.

Why did Bush Cheney know that North Korea had WMD and where did they gget the components?

Why were Pakistan and India able to test and develop nuclear weapons undetected by the CIA's "big eye in the sky" or any agency's seismic
discovery? And where did India and Pakistan purchase the components
for WMD which were illegal for any company to sell them?

What was Valerie Plame investigating?


good spooks vs the bad spooks in the FBI and CIA becomes very confusing to most, I think.



Not to add confusion to my "theory " above, but I also thought:

When Saudi Arabia asked Junior and Company to get out of Saudi Arabia
afer we had built a monstrous and expensive base armed with the newest weaponry - one might call it a home base -why would they do that, when they had wanted US to protect them and their oil fields for years???

The reason given for asking us to vacate was to calm the anti-American element. Hmmm. But if they needed our protection from that very element, WHY would they ask their protector to leave.
BECAUSE they "likely" also received WMD from certain parties.

So now, we can guess, the entire Middle East is armed with illegal components of WMD...supplied by whom?hmmm

And I agree with you ROBERTPAULSEN- it's a great racket. Supply them
with the components, collect payment. Shuttle back and forth between
private employment and government employment, selling WMD for your company's bottom line while a private CEO, earning large bonuses and
deferred "payment" plus increased stock option value, go back into government, create a war on those countries who have the WMD you have sold them, then you have created a situation where your company and the other companies you hold stock in, or which belong to your other associates, can supply the army with munitions, destroy the country you have sold WMD to, and then the very same companies who supplied the munitions for destruction, go in and rebuild the country.


So. Now how many times have you profiteered?
1) illegal selling of WMD
2) earn bonus, increase value of stock options
3) Supply Army Munitions on no bid contracts
4) Rebuild the country on no bid contracts



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robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-25-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #55

56. PALLAS THEORY - WHY BRIT INTEL WONT SHOW THEIR EVIDENCE


everyone is assuming that the Brit Intel is the same Intel that the
CIA had. (on yellowcake)

You're right about one thing...the intel agencies all share their info.BUT you are forgetting that the French have been investigating CHeney Halliburton illegalities for some time, and Cheney Halliburton
did not sell yellowcake (to our knowledge), they sold equipment that could be used for dual use - and one of the uses was for a nuklar bomb.

So there is nothing to say that the Brit Intel was the same Niger info.In fact it may not be.

WHY would they not share with the world what information they had about Iraq having WMD? And why have they suddenly changed their mindsagain saying it was bogus after all - after insisting for 1 1/2 years they had separate proof of Iraq having WMD?

Theory: because it would cause a great deal of embarrassment to "he who calls himself president of VICE ! !! a-ha!

Could be one of Halliburton's subsidiaries or offshores, whose name and connection was not recognized immediately was in the hands of Brit Intel so they said they had separate verifying proof of WMD in Iraq - only to realize the proof traced back to a company named Halliburton or Brown Root - and so they shut up. (TOP SECRET - CANNOT BE REVEALED, of course while every intel agency in the world knows, but the general public date not know becaue we would hang the perpetrator)

Highly plausible . First they say they have proof of WMD in Iraq.but refuse to show it.......now they suddenly say the proof is bogus - and still refuse to reveal it.



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robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-25-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #56

57. H20 THEORY - RECAP


H2O Man (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-17-04 02:01 PM




We know that Valerie Plame was involved in a sting operation involving the components for WMDs. This is verfied in J. Klein's article in Time, 7-5-04. Remember also that when Novak called CI for confirmation of Plame's status -- and Robert NoFacts had told a total stranger on a public street on the day afterWilson's NYT op-ed article that she was a WMD specialist -- the CIA requested that he not only should NOT mention Wilson's wife was an operative with the Agency, but that her name should not ever be printed.

One of the things to keep in mind is that by revealing Plame's identity, it insured that at very least, a half-dozen operatives (American and other-wise) were exposed to the last people on earth that they should have been exposed to. Let's just say, for example, that there was a person who was working in the Pakistan area ... and he had worked in deep cover for over a decade, and was very, very close to accessing information on the sale of not only technology, but also components, that went to Iran .... and he had a known link to Plame .... then he would be dead 24 hours after Novak's article was printed. Further, no one in the USA would be at liberty to discuss the fact that he existed.

You will recall that I've referred to this as high stakes chess. A board game where the removal of one player compromises the safety and value of several others.

Listen: if they wanted to call Wilson's conclusions into question, they could create confusion with a series of bullshit documents from England, etc. They could have said that his was one of three US reports, and that there were the British papers that were still open to question, considering that Wilson had not viewed them. They could have even said, yes, we tend to agree with Wilson.

But they didn't. They had been waiting to reveal information on Plame for some time. The fact that Iran is sharing he focus in the recent days, along with Wilson, is a clue .... a big clue.



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robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-25-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #57

58. CALIMARY THEORY RECAP


Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-17-04 05:43 PM


71. I am convinced Valerie Plame was the target, & they thought
they would do a 'Rosenberg' on them. Two for the price of one.
Set them up.Traitors to the country, electric chair, the whole bit.




calimary (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-17-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #71

143. That would fit in conveniently with the message they evidently wanted to put out to the intel community: the "do not cheney with us" message. Wilson has, many times, mentioned that what happened to his wife, whether to her directly or indirectly to him, was to seriously discourage others from getting "out of line." Wouldn't that just be the decisive little coup de grace - to "Rosenberg" one or both of them, to put a chill on anybody else who might be getting too dangerously close? If they knew they were not only going to be ruined, but they also faced the electric chair or some other kind of EXTREMELY final punishment, there'd be icicles hanging off all of them before you could say "BOO!"

And for awhile, they've seemed invincible, haven't they? So who would dare...

But things are a lot stickier and more complicated now. Their anticipated free ride is starting to get seriously mucked up as more people know, and talk, and spread out, and start asking questions, and some guy like Fitzgerald gets involved (who couldn't be counted on to be a "good" republi-CON after all. And, as someone else mentioned either here or on Thread 8 - they misunderestimated the internet. They thought we'd all just shut up and go to our corner and suck our thumbs and mope and cower and give up, didn't they? They didn't know we'd (literally, here) go underground...

As Martha Stewart would say - it's a VERY good thing. And it's gaining traction.

Which is what our efforts in all these arenas should do, as well. GAIN TRACTION.






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robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-25-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #58

60. ROBERTPAULSEN THEORY HALLI>KHAN-OBL>PLAME>CHENEY


robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-19-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #216

234. WHOA!!! Could this be circumstantial evidence of a Khan/Plame link?!


When I first read this article, I decided to post it here because of the dirt it has on a Musharraf/Khan/Bin Laden connection.

A. Q. KHAN & OSAMA BIN LADEN

snip
These accounts of three of the travels of Dr.A.Q.Khan establish conclusively the following facts:

He had kept the Pakistani Foreign Office informed of his travels. The Foreign Office had instructed the Pakistani diplomatic missions in the countries visited by him to accord the due honours of protocol to him.
In all the countries, he was received by officers of the Pakistani diplomatic missions and entertained by the heads of missions.
In Sudan, he was accorded the honours of protocol generally given to a member of the Cabinet and called on the President of the country.
He was accompanied by senior serving scientists of Pakistan's nuclear establishment, who were among those responsible for Pakistan's military nuclear development. They could not have gone abroad and remained absent for days without the knowledge and clearance of the Government.
At least one Lt.Gen. belonging to the Pakistan Army's Medical Corps, who had headed it, and two Brigadiers had accompanied him. They could not have gone and remained away from the country without the knowledge and clearance of the Military Headquarters.
The uranium enriched at KRL, Kahuta, used to come from Africa, mainly Niger. This partly explains the frequent travels of A.Q.Khan to Africa. From the accounts given by the Pakistani author, two intriguing questions arise:

Why did Khan consider it necessary to visit the site of a factory in Sudan, which became the target of US Cruise missile attacks after the explosions outside the US Embassies in Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam by Al Qaeda in August 1998? The Americans had alleged at that time that this factory belonged to Osama bin Laden and was producing chemicals for weaponisation purposes. Denying this, the Sudanese authorities had claimed that it was producing anti-malaria drugs.
Why was he visiting frequently Timbuktu, which has apparently no importance from the nuclear point of view? Pakistani officials have alleged that he had illegally constructed a hotel there ( Hotel La Colombe?) in the name of his wife. If he was going there to supervise the construction of the hotel, he should have been accompanied by experts in building construction and the hotel industry. No such person accompanied him. He was always accompanied by scientists and Army officers associated with KRL and Tahir Mian, who was helping him in the procurement of centrifuges.
It is reliably learnt from well-placed observers that it also came out during the recent interrogation of the associates of Khan in Pakistan's nuclear establishment that after Osama bin Laden shifted from Khartoum to Afghanistan in 1996, Dr.Khan was also looking after bin Laden's extensive investments in the mining industry in many African countries and that the money invested in the Timbuktu hotel had come from these investments of bin Laden. The Pakistani authorities have reportedly suppressed this information and not shared it with the US.

http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/khanandbin...

Sooooo....

Khan, with the assistance of the Pakistani government and military, looked after bin Laden investments in Africa. Pretty bad on its own merits. But then this sentence caught my eye.


The uranium enriched at KRL, Kahuta, used to come from Africa, mainly Niger. This partly explains the frequent travels of A.Q.Khan to Africa.


What a coincidence. The enriched uranium that Khan had access to came mainly from NIGER!

Now, when Cheney sent Wilson to Niger, wasn't he aware of Plame's WMD "sting operation" in the Middle East?!

No wonder Musharraf had this reaction:

"In one of his statements, he has even blamed the US intelligence agencies for not uncovering this network earlier than October last year and asserted that if they had done so, he would have acted against it even earlier."

I know this is not direct proof of a smoking gun, but I think this information could be an extremely important piece of the puzzle. If the WMD trafficking that Plame's "sting operation" covered is linked to Khan, who got his enriched uranium mainly from Niger, and we can verify Cheney had access to this intelligence, then we are getting even closer to H20 Man and Prouty's big question: why?



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robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-25-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #60

62. ROBERTPAULSEN - CHENEY/KHAN TIE: MOTIVE TO OUT PLAME


We all know about the $1.2 million fine Cheney got for selling dual-use components. Going back over some of my old posts, here's another bit of dirt we should all remember:

Cheney helped cover-up Pakistani nuclear proliferation in '89 so US could sell country fighter jets

Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 04:04 PM Eastern Standard Time
Jason Leopold
When Pakistan's clandestine program involving its top nuclear scientist selling rogue nations, such as Iran and North Korea, blueprints for building an atomic bomb was uncovered last month, the world's leaders waited, with baited breath to see what type of punishment George W. Bush would inflict upon Pakistan's President Pervez Musharaff. Bush has, after all, spent his entire term in office talking tough about countries and dictators that conceal weapons of mass destruction and even tougher on individuals who supply rogue nations and terrorists with the means to build WMD. For all intents and purposes, Pakistan and Musharraf fit that description.

Remember, Bush accused Iraq of harboring a cache of WMD, which was the primary reason he gave for the United States launching a preemptive strike on that country a year ago, and also claimed that Iraq may have given its WMD to al-Qaeda terrorists and/or Syria, weapons that, Bush said, could be used to attack the U.S. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and top members of the administration reacted with shock when they found out that Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, spent the past 15 years selling outlaw nations nuclear technology and equipment. So it was sort of a surprise when Bush, upon finding out about Khan's proliferation of nuclear technology, let Pakistan off with a slap on the wrist. But it was all an act. In fact, it was actually a coverup designed to shield Cheney because he knew about the proliferation for more than a decade and did nothing to stop it.

Like the terrorist attacks on 9-11, the Bush administration had mountains of evidence on Pakistan's sales of nuclear technology and equipment to nations vilified by the U.S.?nations that are considered much more of a threat than Iraq?but turned a blind eye to the threat and allowed it to happen. In 1989, the year Khan first started selling nuclear secrets on the black-market; Richard Barlow, a young intelligence analyst working for the Pentagon prepared a shocking report for Cheney, who was then secretary of defense under the Bush I administration: Pakistan built an atomic bomb and was selling its nuclear equipment to countries the U.S. said was sponsoring terrorism. But Barlow's findings, as reported in a January 2002 story in Mother Jones magazine, were "politically inconvenient."

"A finding that Pakistan possessed a nuclear bomb would have triggered a congressionally mandated cutoff of aid to the country, a key ally in the CIA's efforts to support Afghan rebels fighting a pro-Soviet government. It also would have killed a $1.4-billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Islamabad," Mother Jones reported. Ironically, Pakistan, critics say, was let off the hook last month so the U.S. could use its borders to hunt for al-Qaeda leader and alleged 9-11 mastermind Osama bin Laden. Cheney dismissed Barlow's report because he desperately wanted to sell Pakistan the F-16 fighter planes. Several months later, a Pentagon official was told by Cheney to downplay Pakistan's nuclear capabilities when he testified on the threat before Congress. Barlow complained to his bosses at the Pentagon and was fired.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/article.php/2004031621042...

That got me thinking about other facts surrounding the Plame scandal. Like the "sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components". When Khan's operation was exposed, everyone in the loop was caught with their pants down. Musharraf had to pardon Khan because as the father of the Pakistani atomic bomb, he is a national hero. Do you buy that as the real reason? That's like accepting the Bush misadministration's silence over the pardon because Pakistan is our ally in the War on Terror. Right. Reminds me of Michael Corleone in Godfather Part II: "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer".

My theory is that the sting operation Plame was involved in brought down A.Q. Khan. As far as "trafficking of WMD components" goes, Khan was a pretty huge player. My fear is that Khan was just the tip of the iceberg and that when Plame's operation was derailed, it allowed even bigger fish to swim away where Middle East WMD trafficking is concerned. Remember this about Musharraf:

"His repeatedly-asserted contention has been that after the interception by the intelligence agencies of the US and the UK of a ship in October last year which was found carrying to Libya a clandestine consignment of centrifuges for uranium enrichment got manufactured at the instance of A.Q.Khan by a company in Malaysia with the assistance of a Sri Lankan Muslim, he became aware of the extensive non-proliferation activities of the A.Q.Khan group and immediately acted against them.

According to Musharraf, details of the clandestine travels and proliferation network of A.Q. Khan came to notice during the subsequent investigation. In one of his statements, he has even blamed the US intelligence agencies for not uncovering this network earlier than October last year and asserted that if they had done so, he would have acted against it even earlier

http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/khanandbin...

If Plame was in on this sting, Musharraf certainly had a reason to voice disdain for the US intelligence agencies, and Cheney certainly had a reason to out Plame.



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robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-25-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #62

63. Nuclear Walmart: Little Doubt that OBL has dirty bomb -


if you read Robert's post above carefully, you see that
Pakistani scientist Khan was running a Nuclear Walmart.

1)He sold the secrets of the nuclear bomb world wide. This is fact.
2)He had access to yellow cake by his trips to Africa/Niger
3)He was OBL's overseer of finances and properties, with the help
of the secret service ISI of Pakistan.

The ISI of Pakistan was also the supporter and installer of the TAliban in Afghanistan (and current protector/hider of OBL)

When Khan was exposed as the merchant of death ofa ring selling nuclear materials world wide, he was immediately pardoned by
Musharaf, PM of of Pakistan. Pardoned so fast that none of the US
Intel agencies would be able to question him.

WHY? H20 always tells us to ask WHY? Why was Khan immediately pardoned? Because to try him for criminality would have exposed
who gave him nuclear components, what corporations sold illegally,
what country and high officials were involved.

WHERE did Khan get the components which are necessary to set off
a nuclear device?

WHO? do we know who has illegally been selling nuclear dual components?

Some of these answers go back to the administration in 1988 when it
was known that administration gave other countries the miniaturized
nuke W88. Hmmmm. What current officials were in the same administration?

What was the name of the President at the time?



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robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-25-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #63

64. Why go to the elaborate scenarios? to stop WMD investigations:


Subject: Why go to the elaborate scenarios: to stop investigations into WMD sales
Message:
Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-18-04 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #59

71. They're not called the Mayberry Machiavellis for nothing - I think

in a way it was the other way around, they weren't after Wilson, they were after Plame. Two for the price of one. Rosenberg them.

Cheney has been in govt since Nixon, that we know of, then Ford.
He's been around a long time with access to top security items.
To recap, we also knew he made at least 10 trips to CI HQ and would
have, could have, pinpointed who was working blackmarket WMD which
would have been of great interest to him. He would also have access
to CI files, would know of or remember Ambassador Wilson. Bingo -
the plot is hatched.

Ask her would her husband be interested in helping? Of course.
Discredit him, expose/discredit her operation and put a stop to her work and the work of the entire spy group/cell she had set up worldwide which MAY have been hot on the trail of Halliburton/Brown Root/et al illegal black market sales of components which could be used for WMD, which as we all know was Valerie's job.

He figures he's home free, no more fines, no discovery of the double dealing, but the Mayberrys call Novak and committ a treasonous act which leads right back to the WH and darth vader.

___________________________________________________________________


Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-18-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #102

117. If Pappy gave the mini nuke W88 to China,as widely reported, there is nothing to say Pappy and darth vader didn't give the same or similar components to Khan. And your theory sounds just about right - Khan would have had to be pardoned immediately because not to pardon him, the good FBI would be over there asking him where he got the WMD and the arrow would point right back to the 1988 administration # 1 and/or the current WH.

Another reason why junior sealed Pappy's records.

Nice, huh. It still sounds like treason to me at the highest levels
__________________________________________________________

robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-18-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #117

138. Glad you agree!
The extent of treason is pretty scary. Gives me nightmares sometimes. I woke up this morning with the memory of seeing a news report: "Bush prepares for upcoming Iran invasion". That's one nightmare I'm afraid might come true.

But I take comfort in knowing we're all on the side of righteousness in this struggle

Additional edit for this thread: These theories are all different, but as far as I can see, they all fit into a pattern, like different pieces of the same jigsaw puzzle. I look forward to reading more research into these theories, as well as new theories that could give us a fresh perspective on the nature of this crime.


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shraby (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-27-04 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #55

185. There is one more aspect


to the 1-2-3-4

5. Enter government from time to time and make sure laws and regulations are such that you can be most profitable while you're in the private sector.

[Pallas180]

6. COMING SOON - CHENEY-HALLIBURTON-RUMSFELD-KHAN-N.KOREA & MORE

stay tuned.

The information gathered from all over the internet is being
assembled into an understandable and simplified format.

[shraby]

12. Thanks Pallas

for putting it together on a new thread...once again. :hi:

[Pallas180]

42. "PLENTY MORE TO SWEAR ABOUT" by Joe Klein

Sunday, Jun. 27, 2004
Plenty More to Swear About
By JOE KLEIN
The Vulcans — a campaign 2000 nickname for George W. Bush's hawkish national security team — went Krakatoa last week. Dick Cheney erupted on the Senate floor, deploying the F word against Vermont Democrat Patrick Leahy, who had been belaboring the Vice President over the no-bid deals that Cheney's old company, Halliburton, had scored in Iraq. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz suffered a meltdown in a House Armed Services Committee hearing, blasting the press for "sitting in Baghdad" and "printing rumors." (He later apologized.) And the White House was forced to acknowledge that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had approved, at least for a while, the use of dogs, nudity, stress positions — that is, torture — against enemy combatants. Indeed, Rumsfeld, who works at a stand-up desk, indicated a desire for at least one more strenuous stress position: "I stand 8-10 hours a day," he scrawled on a memo. "Why is standing limited to 4 hours?"

Presumably the Secretary of Defense doesn't do his standing naked, continuously, in the middle of the night, surrounded by hostile guards and attack dogs. But then, Rumsfeld's blustery testosteronics are at the heart of what has gone wrong with the Bush foreign policy — and last week the assorted temper tantrums appeared to be a leading indicator of a gathering summer storm confronting this presidency.


The torture investigation is one of four major defensive battles the Administration is facing. In the weeks to come, the White House will also have to deal with the 9/11 commission's final report, the congressional investigations into the CIA's bungled assessment of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and a special prosecutor's hunt for the White House leakers who blew the cover of CIA secret operative Valerie Plame. Not only is the Administration defending itself against the Democrats, the investigators and the media. Two other serious, surreptitious — and quite possibly unprecedented — battles are going on: the intelligence community is at war with the White House, and the uniformed military is at war with the civilian leadership of the Pentagon. The first conflict went public last week with news of the impending publication of Imperial Hubris: Why the West Is Losing the War on Terrorism, a book by an anonymous author who is known to be a senior CIA official and former chief of the agency's Osama bin Laden station. The invasion of Iraq was "an avaricious, premeditated, unprovoked war against a foe who posed no immediate threat," the author writes. "There is nothing that bin Laden could have hoped for more than the American invasion and occupation of Iraq."

Michael Moore couldn't have said it any better — and this book was vetted by CIA censors. In fact, the views of Anonymous are an accurate reflection of the opinions I've heard from multiple intelligence sources. The spooks seem to believe that outgoing CIA Director George Tenet was strong-armed by Cheney and Rumsfeld into overassessing Iraq's WMD capacity. This may or may not be true, but it is the conventional wisdom in the intelligence community. Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. Plame was outed in a White House attempt to discredit the finding of her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, that there was no evidence that Iraq tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger. "Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll" of the CIA, an intelligence source told me.

more...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,11010...

I reprint this article that we have been referencing since the first thread because the knowledge of this "sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components" provides us with clues for a MOTIVE to blow Valerie Plame's cover. Exploring the reasons "why" gives us a clearer understanding of the scope of this treasonous act and leads to the next logical query in any criminal investigation: who benefited?


Here's the $1.2 million link


Maybe RebelYell could send this along with Cheney speech link to Robert Palast. He'd laugh his ass off and spread the word!

A Halliburton Primer
Thursday, July 11, 2002


Following President Bush's demand for more corporate accountability, public interest group Judicial Watch, Inc., filed suit against Vice President Cheney and the Halliburton Company, alleging accounting fraud during Cheney's stewardship of Halliburton in the 1990s. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is also investigating Halliburton's accounting practices.


Judicial Watch Sues Cheney, Halliburton (AP, July 10, 2002)

Following is a brief explanation of Cheney's involvment with Halliburton and the pending lawsuit and SEC investigation.

What is Halliburton Co.?

The Dallas-based Halliburton Company provides products and services to the petroleum and energy industries to aid in the exploration, development and production of natural resources. Halliburton KBR, the company's engineering and construction division, designs, builds and provides additional services for the energy industry, governments and civil infrastructure. Halliburton employs 85,000 people in over 100 countries.

Halliburton came under fire in the early '90s for supplying Libya and Iraq with oil drilling equipment which could be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Halliburton Logging Services, a former subsidiary, was charged with shipping six pulse neutron generators through Italy to Libya. In 1995, the company pled guilty to criminal charges that it violated the U.S. ban on exports to Libya. Halliburton was fined $1.2 million and will pay $2.61 million in civil penalties.

During his chairmanship of Halliburton, Cheney criticized U.S. sanctions against "rogue" nations such as Iran and Libya in a 1998 speech. According to a July 26, 2000, Washington Post story, Cheney complained the sanctions "are nearly always motivated by domestic political pressure, the need for Congress to appeal to some domestic constituency."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/article...

[Scagbearer]

16. I agree

[Swamp Rat]

7. My 1000th post is dedicated to you guys for doing this excellent work!!!

Thank you Pallas180, H2O Man and everyone else at DU!

:toast:

[Pallas180]

8. thanks for being with us Swamp Rat.

:hi:

[StandUpGuy]

10. Great Job

Fantastic work !

I know I took up a lot of your time asking questions that were probably not very relevant so again I thank you.

H20 and you have done an awesome job as have others.



:yourock:

[Pallas180]

21. STAND UP -you gave us part of the title, we thank you &

do read thread #13 - I think you'll be very excited by what
is uncovered.

[StandUpGuy]

35. I have read every word !!!

I see you read that disruptor thread.

Keep up the good work.

I've started copying important info from these threads and have passed it around my work and left about 10 copies on the local subway.

Time will tell if Bushco can get away with all of this even though it's starting to see the light of day.

[StandUpGuy]

71. A kick for newbies

If just one new visitor reads this thread the kick was worthwhile.

[Wind Dancer]

9. Great job Pallas for putting it all together

again in a new thread.

[Pallas180]

23. F-DEM-IN-NC

:hi:

and get to work! Why isn't North Carolina excited about John Edwards?

You gotta get them energized Dem! :)

[Wind Dancer]

39. LOL! Believe me, I am trying!

There are many of us trying desperately to win this state, we will not give up easily.

[Beam Me Up]

11. the "path that led to the CIA's humiliation can be found"

Long article and I'm not certain I either understand or agree with all that is being said. For example, he calls 9/11 an 'intelligence failure' and I'm not so sure of that. In any case, I believe it is worth a read:


The CIA's DI Disgrace

By Robert Parry
July 13, 2004

/snipping most of the article to conclusion/:

While Tenet and other CIA officials also have noted that they objected to some bogus administration claims, such as the assertion that Iraq was seeking yellowcake uranium from Niger, those protests were mostly half-hearted and made behind closed doors. Bush was only forced to back off the yellowcake claim, which he had cited in his State of the Union address in January 2003, after the International Atomic Energy Agency concluded that the supporting documentation was "not authentic."

In its July 9, 2004, report, the Senate Intelligence Committee broadly condemned the CIA’s analysis of the military threat posed by Iraq, blaming analytical “group think” that led the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies into a pattern of errors on Iraq’s WMD program and other issues.

“A series of failures, particularly in analytic trade craft, led to the mischaracterization of intelligence,” the committee said in a 511-page report. “Most of the major key judgments either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting.”

While the results of the CIA's "group think" are now apparent – in the nearly 900 U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq and in the deepening anti-U.S. sentiment around the world – the start of this path that led to the CIA's humiliation can be found in those early days of the Reagan-Bush administration when ideology became more important than fact.

http://consortiumnews.com/2004/071304.html

[Eurobabe]

19. another reason to not let WH appoint IntellCzar

that lacks objective research capabilities. Bu$hCo can't be trusted.

[shraby]

20. The Office of Special Plans

under Douglas Feith had the most to do with the bad intell. They relied on Chalabi and friends.

[Pallas180]

22. BEAM -More than the CIA's "group think" is apparent here

"In the same UPI article, Kapisthalam mentions how funding for Pakistan's nuclear program came from the Bank of Credit and Commerce International. One need only look at BCCI's history to confirm the role of the CIA in the ISI's affairs.

Various articles by Kapisthalam point to the duplicitous role of Pakistan as both US ally and terror sponsor, but the most obvious conclusion is ignored like so much good intelligence. As if the CIA's past support for Al-Qaeda, the Contras and Generals Pinochet and Soeharto weren't enough."

more-

http://www.crikey.com.au/yoursay/2004/05/21-0003.html

[NightOwwl]

13. I doubt if this means anything but a man named Jack

Eckenrode, who was until recently in charge of the FBI's investigation into the Plame leak is moving to Philadelphia's FBI office.

Could this mean they don't need him anymore because things are wrapping up?

Link:
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/9251273.htm

[shraby]

14. That's what we're hoping.

Not only that, we're hoping the indictments are a'coming too.

[Pallas180]

24. Hi NIGHTOWWL. check out Eckinrode on thread #13 &

thanks for the info.

[H2O Man]

15. "Great principles are constant ...."

"Our principles do not change. Justice is always justice; freedom is always freedom. Great principles are constant. And so what they call the "old way" is nothing more than principles. And they say you can't go back to the old way -- which means you can't go back to justice, you can't go back to equality, you can't go back to what is right and wrong. Principles are how you exist above and beyond the emotions that you feel; to control and have discipline of one's self. Self-discipline, not people making you behave, but discipline where you don't need police. That is how our people lived. There were no police. There were no jails. There were basic laws -- you don't lie and steal. Tell the truth. Be strong. Look out for your brothers and sisters. Look out for the ones just underneath you. Look out for the elders. Use your strength on behalf of the nation, on behalf of the people. Conduct yourself in a proper manner."

-- Oren Lyons; Onondaga Nation Council of Chiefs

[H2O Man]

17. "Earth House Hold"

"To those who stubbornly argue 'it's against human nature,' we can only patiently reply that you must know your own nature before you can say this. Those who have gone into their own natures deeply have, for several thousand years now, been reporting that we have nothing to fear if we are willing to train ourselves, to open up, explore and grow."

--"Earth House Hold," by Gary Snyder; New Directions; 1968

[H2O Man]

18. "truth in action..."

"There should be truth in thought, truth in speech, and truth in action. Devotion to truth is the sole justification of our existence. It is impossible for us to realize perfect truth so long as we are imprisoned in this mortal frame."

--Gandhi

[Pallas180]

25. Speak Truth To Power

"I SAW A SOCIETY YEARNING TO BE CONVINCED ABOUT THE ESSENCE OF

CONVICTION. I SAW A SOCIETY WHERE THERE WAS A VACCUUM. I SAW A

SOCIETY THAT REQUIRED MORE SACRIFICE AND UNDERSTANDING. THERE IS

A UNIVERSAL CONTEST BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL AND I BELIEVE EVENTUALLY

GOOD WILL TRIUMPH OVER EVIL. BUT GOOD CANNOT TRIUMPH OVER EVIL

BY RETREATING FROM EVIL- GOOD MUST CONFRONT EVIL"


" You are not motivated because you are a decent person, no. Sometimes it is a calling. And when there is a calling, there is no explanation for what motivates you. There is no explanation for your action, or what propels you. It has to be a vocation. Every one of us has been born into this world with a mission. It has to be fulfilled. Whether I like it or not God intended to use me in society in this way. I hold no malice against anyone. I believe hatred blurs the human sensibilities and diminishes the spirit. Those who hate me, criticize me, and vilify me, purify my conviction and strengthen my courage."

"We all live in different societies. We all have to face our different circumstances and challenges. But we must find our common ground. We must work together. And I think we can all make this world a better place. .. this is my favorite quote by Etienne de Grellet:

"I know I shall pass this way but once. And if there is anything I can do, any kindness I show, any good thing I can do, let me do it now, for I shall not pass this way again."


quote from Founding director of the foremost human rights organization in Liberia, the Catholic Justice and Peace Commission, Sam Woods

[coeur_de_lion]

37. Gandhi also said . . .

Non-violence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man.

and

A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.

So then, what is our mission? Have yesterday's revelations changed that mission?

If we are to have truth in action, what is our action going to be?

[H2O Man]

46. I would like to propose:

that we consider that Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) the ranking minority member of the House Government Reform Committee has mentioned in a recent op-ed piece that the House should be investigating the Plame incident ..... and that the committee chair Thomas Davis III had a typical republican knee-jerk reaction, in his Washington Post op-ed response to Waxman ..... I would suggest that we focus letters etc to Waxman.

I think we also had a general agreement that Sy H. is the reporter with the greatest ability to go after this story.

The Waterman Paper seems a good introduction to our work. The research has shown strong ties between cheney and weapon trade. The question remains: what specifically would the White House have needed to derail? The information we have found is powerful, but was most of it already known before last 7-14?

Our search is simply not going to be able to identify the "missing piece" of the puzzle. We can come close. I think that in particular, the information regarding Pakistan is key. I believe that there is a connection between Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the ill-identified groups of Islamic militants that have indeed declared war against American interests.

I would suggest that we consider writing the body of evidence that you researchers have found. Keep it in a format that is not too complex for the average person. Have an index of other related resources. And make it available to other grass-roots groups, and urge people to continue to lobby with the selected journalist and elected official(s).

[Pallas180]

50. H20 -We're working on it - as you know it's complex and

will take more than a bit of time -

as you know we'll come to you for some final editing when we have
it in some shape.

My idea is to make a flow chart similar to a geneology chart for
readily recognizable and simplification of connections.

[H2O Man]

57. Oh, I know that you are

I know that the research staff is doing the hard work. You folks are far ahead of schedule. Don't slow down, of course. But I understand what research is, in terms of work. Remember my story about page 100556.

The fact that the grand jury was extended changed the schedule. But we're doing great.

[Pallas180]

69. RobertPaulsen is doing the heavy lifting.The rest of us have found,

but what we find is funnelled to RP for consolidation into some
kind of cohesiveness..

and he deserves a lot of, an awful lot of credit.

It prolly would be easier if we could all sit in a room
with him and point at -" put this in here and that there"
but this is really something new - to us anyway.

[kohodog]

75. I Agree. RP has brought some great info to the table,

and it would be great to be around a table together. Somehow I think we'd know who is who without introductions.

But along with that I think our different situations bring a wider focus than would be possible if we knew each other socially or professionally. After our work is done we should get together, perhaps on a park bench somewhere!

[robertpaulsen]

130. Great idea, kohodog. I'll bring the freedom fries!

[robertpaulsen]

129. Thanks Pallas - and good day to you and everyone here!

I'm halfway through these Plame threads and starting to form an outline. I really appreciate your encouragement.

That would be great to sit around a table hashing this out. It would be an all night, maybe even all weekend session where we all wouldn't sleep a wink and have the time of our lives! It's been great bonding with everyone here who cares about the future of our country.

I'll keep up with the research today and check in here occasionally. Looks like there's some interesting posts below, anything with Bildeburg Kissinger is worth looking into. ;)

[kohodog]

60. I've been trying to find out how to contact Sy hersh

But haven't come up with anything. The New Yorker doesn't have any easy way and google hasn't turned up anything either. Any of you sleuths have any ideas?

[Pallas180]

73. KOHO - I'm looking - nothing yet, you may have to snail mail

:hi:

[Wind Dancer]

92. Hey Pallas and Koho,

I think sending care of The New Yorker would be an option.

[calimary]

118. Henry Waxman is a Marvelous Human Being. He's been the main

beacon of light through all this, and the main force behind WHATEVER efforts there have been, in the House of Reps, to hold these bastards accountable for - well, for ANYTHING. He's spent a LOT of time focusing on the many misdeeds and sneaky doings of dick cheney. His staff is VERY well-informed and up-to-speed, and VERY receptive to ideas, suggestions, tips on websites or online articles to check out, and, unlike the staffers at more conservative offices, they don't laugh and scoff when you try to bring something to their attention.

I know this because I'm a constituent. I have called his office probably a couple of thousand times by now. They're all of like mind with him, and therefore also, with me. They will give you an open ear, an open mind, and a fair hearing if you call them with some of this.

You guys know what to do. The usual polite, respectful call, don't come off as some crazy, just a concerned voter.

Those of you here in California can say that while you may not necessarily live in his district, you DO care, deeply, about what our California delegation in Congress is up to, and you appreciate his strong, courageous, and unrelenting leadership in trying to hold our government accountable.

If you live outside California, you can appeal to him by saying either that 1) you've already contacted your own rep about this and demanded that he/she give Waxman support; or 2) you've already contacted your rep and have gotten nowhere, so you've been FORCED to reach out, much farther away, for help.

By the way, on that second point, MANY DUers here have posted, repeatedly, about less-than-desirable experiences contacting reluctant or pig-headed representatives who accept everything bush says as thought it were engraved into the tablets of Moses. NEVER MIND! How's that again? NEVER MIND!!!!! I mean it. Even if you have a republi-CON representative, YOU STILL NEED TO CALL. YOU STILL NEED TO CALL. They still need to know that YOU want this. And who are YOU, to begin with? You are a loyal, patriotic American, a voter, and a taxpayer whose taxes fund YOUR REPRESENTATIVE'S SALARY and that of everyone on their staff, and THEY WORK FOR YOU! THEY ARE YOUR EMPLOYEES. Since YOU are among their constituency, they ignore your interests at their peril, because they also have to answer to YOU on election day, whether they like it or not. They NEED to know that their constituents have OTHER directives for them. It is good, and fitting, and COMPLETELY RED-WHITE-AND-BLUE AMERICAN to remind them of this, because, especially in the circles of power where the republi-CONS all are (for now), they tend to lose sight of that. Particularly if they're used to basking in the glory of their sun-god from Crawford.

CALL THEM ANYWAY. Remember this: what made Richard Nixon finally throw in the towel and resign? People of HIS OWN PARTY had finally had enough, probably because they'd caught nonstop hell about him and their "loyalty" to him from their constituents, and told him it was time to give it up because he was a lost cause. It was OTHER REPUBLI-CONS who finally did it. The Democrats had been onboard long before this. It took the republi-CONS to be the final lever that pushed him out of the White House. Eventually, they couldn't help it. They HAD TO CAVE TO PUBLIC OPINION. THAT'S what we have to do here. Because it CAN happen again.

www.congress.org - is the all time best directory on the net for ANY rep or senator. They're away from Washington right now because they're on a break. But it's been a contentious break, with LOTS of unfinished business they've left behind, and they are WELL AWARE OF THAT, already. Believe me, they won't be far from their offices, and they won't have turned off their cell phones. So it is STILL fair and reasonable and wise to write, OR call (TOLL FREE, see my sig line).

All the specific directory stuff, in the VERY MOST RECENT UPDATES, can be found in the Activism/Events forum here, if you need any of that. But you have to do it. You have to push aside the doubts and fears and dreads that your knuckle-dragger congressperson won't even pay attention to you, and just turn back around and continue the bush-worship. That will CERTAINLY happen if you don't speak up. If you DO speak up, however, you're apt to find that you are not the only one. They may ignore a single complaint. But if they start getting dozens of them, or better yet hundreds (or more), they will be FORCED to start taking notice. That's a big block of potential voters they can't afford to piss off, even in districts that they may still consider safe.

NOTHING'S safe anymore. EVERYTHING is fair game. And EVERY ONE OF US has to jump in there and play it.

[calimary]

119. WAXMAN CONTACT INFO - SPECIFICS:

Web Site: www.house.gov/waxman
E-mail: Contact Via 'Write Your Rep.'

Washington Office:
2204 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-0530
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Main District Office:
8436 W. 3rd St., #600
Los Angeles, CA 90048
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[Pallas180]

124. CALIMARY - you go girl! BTW what is the free fax # for all

sens and reps? I remember seeing it somewhere but my short term
memory stinks! Like waht's your name again?

is it on Ben & Jerry's organization?

or ACLU?

if you can post it , that would be great.

and do you mind if I repost this on the bottom of the thread?

You should also repost it as a new thread in General Discussion --
people have to know there's something they can do.

[Pallas180]

26. Good Morning DU'ers and Professor Waterman.

What a bright and glorious day ! :)

[Me.]

27. The Resident is on Anti=depressants

According to Capital Hill Blue. As if we couldn't tell!. Maybe the fear of indictments has finally gotten to him!

www.capitalhillblue.com/

[Pallas180]

29. C Span Now - Michael Moore speaking on Corporations

maybe we should be sending him Waterman's Paper
and our disccoveries.

? ?

[Pallas180]

30. C Span Now - Michael Moore speaking on Corporations

maybe we should be sending him Waterman's Paper
and our disccoveries.

? ?

[Pallas180]

52. Take Back America Org. with Joe Wilson

http://www.ourfuture.org/press/convention/pr20040727.cf...

SNIP..."AREA HOTEL FORCED TO SHUT DOORS BY LAW ENFORCEMENT
Democratic Convention Delegates, Progressives Pushed Away
Elected Officials, Labor Leaders Restrained from Entry

CAMBRIDGE, MASS. – Thousands of delegates and area residents today were forced out of a hotel across the bridge from the Democratic convention when about one hundred law enforcement officials couldn't contain the excitement around a progressive rally organized by the Campaign for America's Future. Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., Los Angeles City Councilmember Antonio Villaraigosa and AFL-CIO President John Sweeney were barred from entering the building where thousands of progressives gathered to outline their alternative to right-wing policies that are not working in America.

Former Governor Howard Dean, D-Vt., filmmaker Michael Moore, former U.S. Secretary of Labor Robert Reich and Campaign for America's Future Co-director Robert Borosage were among the headliners at the event held at the Royal Sonesta Hotel in Cambridge. Event organizers created a second rally site on the hotel lawn to capture the energy of those who couldn't get in. Moore and Dean spoke on both stages.

Today:
"The Campaign for America's Future plans to hold a debate between former Senator Gary Hart, D-Colo., Amb. Joe Wilson, Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, and The Nation editor Katrina vanden Heuvel at the same location tomorrow afternoon. Event organizers are looking into how to expand the size of the venue."

Dean speaks to overflow crowd from balcony:

[H2O Man]

28. Good morning.

I had the most interesting discussion with a young man last night. I was attending the local court, (not as a defendant!) and there was a fellow of about the age 20, waiting for a pre-trial hearing. He was loud, and seemed rather anxious, as he asked no one in particular and everyone in general if they had viewed "F 9-11"? Several people had. He said that it proved bush was a criminal, that the war in Iraq was wrong, and that people needed to see Moore's movie to be aware of the dangers the administration posed to America. I listened quietly as a few people exchanged opinions. The young man then said he had signed up with a military recruiter. I asked if I heard him correctly? He said that yes, he had. He wanted to sign up before there was a draft. In fact, if there was a draft, he'd go to Canada. But signing up was his own choice, not a draft, and he knew that he couldn't find a job. Also, he thought it would help him keep a clean driver's license.

I think that America needs to listen closer to the young people. When we talk to them, they appear to "get it," but I'd suggest that this young man is proof that not everyone does.

[Pallas180]

31. H20 - the young man who signed up couldn't see

another way out. If he had had some guidance, perhaps from
an elder, some suggestions might have been made to him of
other alternatives.

He knows the truth, yet in personal matters was overwhelmed, is
the way I see it. Remembering being that young. :)

[robertpaulsen]

32. Good morning to you too!

I'm excited to be getting back to this! Thank you for reprinting and condensing the theories, Pallas. We are definitely on the right track!

I'll re-read all the goodies on thread 13 and start going over previous threads to start putting the letter together. Also, I've been thinking since we uncovered dirt on Cheney and Rumsfeld, both very prominent members of the PNAC, perhaps we should look into other prominent members like Perle and Wolfowitz to see if they have any compromising connections with the Nuclear Walmart. Just a thought.

[H2O Man]

33. Wolfowitz.....

is the second most dangerous man in the administration. Perle is very close behind.

[robertpaulsen]

38. Wolfowitz dirt right here! Wayne Madsen exposes his extortion.

Wolfowitz's extortion violates U.S. law

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer

December 16, 2003—On December 5, the rodent-like Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz threw down the Bush regime's latest gauntlet to the rest of the world. A charter-member of the chickenhawk neoconservatives, Wolfowitz, whose arrogance has no limit, named 61 countries eligible for Iraqi reconstruction projects. It is apparent that Wolfowitz had no problem violating the 1977 U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) by promising prime contracts for countries that, in return, send troops to Iraq.

However, if the Justice Department were on the ball, it would be opening up a criminal investigation of Wolfowitz's actions (not likely, considering the Justice Department is headed by another ethically-tainted neoconservative, John Ashcroft). The FCPA states that it is "a crime for U.S. companies to bribe a foreign government official for the specified corrupt purposes. Companies violating the criminal prohibitions face maximum fines of $500,000. Individuals acting on behalf of such companies face a maximum fine of $10,000 and 5 years in jail." The law also covers payments made to foreign officials for the purposes of obtaining business.

Now, here's the rub. Although Wolfowitz is not acting as a "company," he clearly has a questionable relationship with people like Richard Perle, who has, according to Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker, attempted to extort contracts from Saudi Arabia for his Trireme Partners. It is noteworthy that Saudi Arabia (the birthplace of 15 of the 19 alleged September 11 hijackers) is eligible for Iraqi prime contracts while Canada and Mexico are not. Vice President Dick Cheney, who also has a questionable relationship with Wolfowitz through a parallel and unofficial intelligence organization, continues to collect a deferred salary from Halliburton, a company that is reaping billions from Iraqi reconstruction contracts.

Considering the close relationship of Wolfowitz to Trireme and Halliburton, the Justice Department could argue that as a result of these obvious conflicts of interest, Wolfowitz is acting as an "individual acting on behalf" of companies engaged in bribery and extortion.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/121603Madsen/121603madsen.html

Ain't rounding up criminals fun?

[robertpaulsen]

36. Good title from thread 13. How about this variation?

AMERICAN JUDAS: Selling the Security of America and the World For 30 Pieces of Silver

[Pallas180]

40. RobertPaulsen - smile. Sure. Why not. Right now Cheney

is being shown giving speech " If terrorists get their hands
on that deadly technology"......lying dick.




:)

[Pallas180]

93. RP - Ashcroft speech at the Hague

"In a speech in The Hague at the end of May, John Ashcroft, the U.S. Attorney General, said. "We must come to a recognition. Personally and culturally, that corruption is not just a violation of the taw. not just an economic disadvantage,and not merely a political problem,but that it is morally wrong." It should be "no longer seen as an accepted cost of doing business," he went on. "It is now widely recognized that the consequences of corruption can be devastating:devastating to economies, devastating to the poor. devastating to the legitimacy and stability of government and devastating to the moral fabric of society."

From an article by Sy Hersh " The Price Of Oil"


http://iicas.org/english/Krsten_05_07_01.htm

[robertpaulsen]

34. Two articles I think need to be put on every Plame thread.

Plenty More to Swear About - a focus on the question: why?


Sunday, Jun. 27, 2004
Plenty More to Swear About
By JOE KLEIN
The Vulcans — a campaign 2000 nickname for George W. Bush's hawkish national security team — went Krakatoa last week. Dick Cheney erupted on the Senate floor, deploying the F word against Vermont Democrat Patrick Leahy, who had been belaboring the Vice President over the no-bid deals that Cheney's old company, Halliburton, had scored in Iraq. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz suffered a meltdown in a House Armed Services Committee hearing, blasting the press for "sitting in Baghdad" and "printing rumors." (He later apologized.) And the White House was forced to acknowledge that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had approved, at least for a while, the use of dogs, nudity, stress positions — that is, torture — against enemy combatants. Indeed, Rumsfeld, who works at a stand-up desk, indicated a desire for at least one more strenuous stress position: "I stand 8-10 hours a day," he scrawled on a memo. "Why is standing limited to 4 hours?"

Presumably the Secretary of Defense doesn't do his standing naked, continuously, in the middle of the night, surrounded by hostile guards and attack dogs. But then, Rumsfeld's blustery testosteronics are at the heart of what has gone wrong with the Bush foreign policy — and last week the assorted temper tantrums appeared to be a leading indicator of a gathering summer storm confronting this presidency.


The torture investigation is one of four major defensive battles the Administration is facing. In the weeks to come, the White House will also have to deal with the 9/11 commission's final report, the congressional investigations into the CIA's bungled assessment of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and a special prosecutor's hunt for the White House leakers who blew the cover of CIA secret operative Valerie Plame. Not only is the Administration defending itself against the Democrats, the investigators and the media. Two other serious, surreptitious — and quite possibly unprecedented — battles are going on: the intelligence community is at war with the White House, and the uniformed military is at war with the civilian leadership of the Pentagon. The first conflict went public last week with news of the impending publication of Imperial Hubris: Why the West Is Losing the War on Terrorism, a book by an anonymous author who is known to be a senior CIA official and former chief of the agency's Osama bin Laden station. The invasion of Iraq was "an avaricious, premeditated, unprovoked war against a foe who posed no immediate threat," the author writes. "There is nothing that bin Laden could have hoped for more than the American invasion and occupation of Iraq."

Michael Moore couldn't have said it any better — and this book was vetted by CIA censors. In fact, the views of Anonymous are an accurate reflection of the opinions I've heard from multiple intelligence sources. The spooks seem to believe that outgoing CIA Director George Tenet was strong-armed by Cheney and Rumsfeld into overassessing Iraq's WMD capacity. This may or may not be true, but it is the conventional wisdom in the intelligence community. Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. Plame was outed in a White House attempt to discredit the finding of her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, that there was no evidence that Iraq tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger. "Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll" of the CIA, an intelligence source told me.

more...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1101040705-658343,00.html

I reprint this article that we have been referencing since the first thread because the knowledge of this "sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components" provides us with clues for a MOTIVE to blow Valerie Plame's cover. Exploring the reasons "why" gives us a clearer understanding of the scope of this treasonous act and leads to the next logical query in any criminal investigation: who benefited?


Here's the $1.2 million link


Maybe RebelYell could send this along with Cheney speech link to Robert Palast. He'd laugh his ass off and spread the word!

A Halliburton Primer
Thursday, July 11, 2002


Following President Bush's demand for more corporate accountability, public interest group Judicial Watch, Inc., filed suit against Vice President Cheney and the Halliburton Company, alleging accounting fraud during Cheney's stewardship of Halliburton in the 1990s. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is also investigating Halliburton's accounting practices.


Judicial Watch Sues Cheney, Halliburton (AP, July 10, 2002)

Following is a brief explanation of Cheney's involvment with Halliburton and the pending lawsuit and SEC investigation.

What is Halliburton Co.?

The Dallas-based Halliburton Company provides products and services to the petroleum and energy industries to aid in the exploration, development and production of natural resources. Halliburton KBR, the company's engineering and construction division, designs, builds and provides additional services for the energy industry, governments and civil infrastructure. Halliburton employs 85,000 people in over 100 countries.

Halliburton came under fire in the early '90s for supplying Libya and Iraq with oil drilling equipment which could be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Halliburton Logging Services, a former subsidiary, was charged with shipping six pulse neutron generators through Italy to Libya. In 1995, the company pled guilty to criminal charges that it violated the U.S. ban on exports to Libya. Halliburton was fined $1.2 million and will pay $2.61 million in civil penalties.

During his chairmanship of Halliburton, Cheney criticized U.S. sanctions against "rogue" nations such as Iran and Libya in a 1998 speech. According to a July 26, 2000, Washington Post story, Cheney complained the sanctions "are nearly always motivated by domestic political pressure, the need for Congress to appeal to some domestic constituency."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/articles/halliburtonprimer.html

[Wind Dancer]

41. Joe Wilson interview alert!

Stay tuned - hopefully we will find out more from William Pitt.

http://www.truthout.org/dnc04.shtml

[napi21]

43. Damm, I missed it. What'd he say? n/t

[Wind Dancer]

44. You didn't miss it!

William Pitt will write about his speech and hopefully can interview him afterwards.

[Pallas180]

45. Saddam has had a stroke. Seems convenient for dimson family.

even at his first and only appearance, what he had to say about
the dimson family, it was reported, was censored.

We are the jury. And we have a right to hear the FULL testimony.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14467737&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=saddam-s--stroke--name_page.html

[Pallas180]

47. Now this is interesting. Like the mafia's kiss on the lips

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fukuyama Withdraws Bush Support
Foreign News Services - Istanbul

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Famous academic Francis Fukuyama, one of the founding fathers of the neo-conservative movement that underlies the policies of US President George W. Bush's administration, said on July 13 that he would not vote for the incumbent in the November 2 US Presidential election.

In addition to distancing himself from the current administration, Fukuyama told TIME magazine that his old friend, US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, should resign.

In 1997, Fukuyama together with Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Jeb Bush, signed a declaration entitled 'The New American Century Project'. That declaration set the groundwork for the neo-conservative movement.

[H2O Man]

48. wow.

I think that a wide range of conservatives/republicans are going to withdraw their support from this administration. And that's a good thing.

[Pallas180]

49. More Interesting: "real possibility pResident of U.S. is loony toons"

from Me's article:



Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09
Email this article
Printer friendly page


President George W. Bush is taking powerful anti-depressant drugs to control his erratic behavior, depression and paranoia, Capitol Hill Blue has learned.

The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician, can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis, administration aides admit privately.

“It’s a double-edged sword,” says one aide. “We can’t have him flying off the handle at the slightest provocation but we also need a President who is alert mentally.”


Angry Bush walked away from reporter's questions.
Tubb prescribed the anti-depressants after a clearly-upset Bush stormed off stage on July 8, refusing to answer reporters' questions about his relationship with indicted Enron executive Kenneth J. Lay.

“Keep those motherfuckers away from me,” he screamed at an aide backstage. “If you can’t, I’ll find someone who can.”

Bush’s mental stability has become the topic of Washington whispers in recent months. Capitol Hill Blue first reported on June 4 about increasing concern among White House aides over the President’s wide mood swings and obscene outbursts.

Although GOP loyalists dismissed the reports an anti-Bush propaganda, the reports were later confirmed by prominent George Washington University psychiatrist Dr. Justin Frank in his book Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President. Dr. Frank diagnosed the President as a “paranoid meglomaniac” and “untreated alcoholic” whose “lifelong streak of sadism, ranging from childhood pranks (using firecrackers to explode frogs) to insulting journalists, gloating over state executions and pumping his hand gleefully before the bombing of Baghdad” showcase Bush’s instabilities.

“I was really very unsettled by him and I started watching everything he did and reading what he wrote and watching him on videotape. I felt he was disturbed,” Dr. Frank said. “He fits the profile of a former drinker whose alcoholism has been arrested but not treated.”

Dr. Frank’s conclusions have been praised by other prominent psychiatrists, including Dr. James Grotstein, Professor at UCLA Medical Center, and Dr. Irvin Yalom, MD, Professor Emeritus at Stanford University Medical School.

The doctors also worry about the wisdom of giving powerful anti-depressant drugs to a person with a history of chemical dependency. Bush is an admitted alcoholic, although he never sought treatment in a formal program, and stories about his cocaine use as a younger man haunted his campaigns for Texas governor and his first campaign for President.

“President Bush is an untreated alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac tendencies,” Dr. Frank adds.

The White House did not return phone calls seeking comment on this article.

Although the exact drugs Bush takes to control his depression and behavior are not known, White House sources say they are “powerful medications” designed to bring his erratic actions under control. While Col. Tubb regularly releases a synopsis of the President’s annual physical, details of the President’s health and any drugs or treatment he may receive are not public record and are guarded zealously by the secretive cadre of aides that surround the President.

Veteran White House watchers say the ability to control information about Bush’s health, either physical or mental, is similar to Ronald Reagan’s second term when aides managed to conceal the President’s increasing memory lapses that signaled the onslaught of Alzheimer’s Disease.

It also brings back memories of Richard Nixon’s final days when the soon-to-resign President wondered the halls and talked to portraits of former Presidents. The stories didn’t emerge until after Nixon left office.

One long-time GOP political consultant who – for obvious reasons – asked not to be identified said he is advising his Republican Congressional candidates to keep their distance from Bush.

“We have to face the very real possibility that the President of the United States is loony tunes,” he says sadly. “That’s not good for my candidates, it’s not good for the party and it’s certainly not good for the country.”

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4921.shtml

[kohodog]

54. Capital Hill Blue had the first article on this too.

How reliable is CHB? I age=ree that he seems more erratic than ususal. Falling off his bike, looking flushed, speaking almost incoherently. Notice how short his sentences have gotten and the sinple vocabulary he struggles to find.

All signs of something going on.

[shraby]

55. If he is getting that bad,

and indictments against people in the white house come down, plus the investigation into the Iran communications leak opens up, will he be competent enough to handle the assault? It might be enough to make him crack wide open. Plus he'll have the Republican convention to deal with. Not going to be purty.

[shraby]

56. On the bike falling incidents,

his physician is always with him too which indicates to me that something isn't right.

[H2O Man]

58. I'd be very suspicious of this article.

I'm familiar enough with Dr. Frank to say he likely would not throw out a term like, "paranoid meglomaniac," which sounds like: (1) someone who heard part of Justin Frank's most recent tv discussion on C-Span, but missed the important parts; or (2) someone who heard the terms "paranoid" and "meglomania" somewhere else, and thought they'd fit well.

But for anyone who has listened closely to Dr. Frank, this is nonsense.

And Bush shows no evidence of being medicated. Perhaps one could make a strong argument in favor of a couple prescriptions, but there are no medications for what ails the guy.

Thus, the story should be on one of those nice newspapers with stories about Elvis sightings and the UFOs that kidnapped Laci.

[Pallas180]

62. H20 - not so sure about that-member his father was on strong

medication described as "sleeping aids" which later came out
in court cases to be responsible for murders?

Forget which one it was, but I do remember the uproar when it
was connected to abberant behavior in others.

Additionally junior is looking very paunchy - side effect of
medication?

Course, we can't tell if he's more nuts than he was cause we've always thought he was sadistically nuts.

[kohodog]

67. H20, I'm suspicious too, but

from my own observations Bush doesn't seem exactly stable.

I pretty much discounted the first article a few weeks ago (sorry, don't have the link), but it raised a question and watching him closely he doesn't seem 100%. So I think it's something to monitor and make our own conclusions about. Regardless, there is no question that he is dangerous to democracy and human rights worldwide.

[Me.]

70. I Don't Know if the Article is on the Money

But watching this guy I just can't shake the feeling that something isn't right. I too have noticed his paunchiness and have viewed it with interest given how devoted he seemed to be to his exercise regime. Also. he seems to have a hard time keeping his focus and organizing his thoughts. I also remember looking at Reagan and his performances and absolutely knowing that all wasn't right there only to have it confirmed later, when he spoke of his disease.

Now it is apparent when looking at presidents after a few years in office that the burdens of office do take their toll, but this strikes me as different. When he left after the Lay question it struck me as a temper tantrum quite like a child might have.

[Pallas180]

76. Well, Adolph wasn't all there either,but a lot of people followed him over

the cliff.

Personally, I don't know anybody who blew up frogs as a kid.

[Pallas180]

91. H20 from Woodward's book - normal?

" 'I loathe Kim Jong Il!' Bush shouted, waving his finger in the air. 'I've got a visceral reaction to this guy, because he is starving his people.' " Woodward wrote that the President had become so emotional while speaking about Kim Jong Il that "I thought he might jump up."

[H2O Man]

97. bush < normal

No. No, he's not normal. In fact, he has paranoid tendencies. And he has more than a hint of meglomania.

The democrat.com news is carrying the same story. So that makes it seem possible that there may be a grain of truth to it.

First, on the father: he had physical health issues, which was treated with, among other things, one medication with dual uses. That's actually common. The father hasn't been treated for psychological issues. Significant difference.

Dr. Justin Frank has his book, and has appeared on a # of tv programs. He tends to be very careful with his words. His "diagnosis" of bush is, if anything, understated.

Now, on to the president. He has an obvious axis 2 personality disorder. RebelYell asked me about this before. Since he was a little boy, his mother taught him that he was always right, and never wrong. Thus, he internalizes "right & good," and externalizes "wrong & bad." This is a base belief in his personality structure: if something "good" happens, no matter if it is someone else doing it, he takes credit. Remember when he "landed" on the ship, wearing his Power Ranger's uniform? Pathetic.

Further, he can never be wrong. Ever. Ever. If a mistake is made, someone else is to blame. Mom reinforced this. Little george found it comfortable to snuggle in the warm womb of being perfect.

Little george never quite got over the fact he didn't measure up to Dad. We might not like Dad's politics, but he flew missions in WW2. No coward did this. Probably safe to say there were other similar areas where little george knew he didn't measure up, and had inner conflicts with Dad. When we look at the invasion of Iraq, for example, most people immediately recognize that we are all victims of some father-son pathology.

Little george tried his hand at business, and failed. Every time. And people bailed him out, to an extent he was rewarded financially for being a complete failure. As we know, this lesson was blurred for george, because he was self-medicating with a variety of substances.

That same brain synopsis that carries a chemical high every time mommy gave an emotional huge to reward his being the central human being in the universe, needed a boost. So an intoxicated fool felt very good about ever failure: someone else was to blame, and he grew progressively richer. And, no matter how tough it got, a greater force would come to the rescue.

Around the age 40, his wife found him intolerable, and the family decided to ask Rev. Billy Graham to talk to him. Graham talked to him about God. But george mistook the meaning of higher level teachings, because he applied them to his lower level existence. He became the "choosen one." And was this not exactly what Mommy taught him?

Always right; never wrong. A higher power will intervene. The Supreme Court made him president. And why? Because James Baker submitted to the court that a recount threatened to harm george's victory. Swear to God, read Bugliosi's book. That was their central argument.

So we have a president who is never wrong. He's always right. God wants him to be president. Anyone who opposes him is against God. It's his role to fulfill the bibical prophesies. (Which he may, in a manner he can not grasp!)

People with this make-up don't tend to get depressed. All errors belong to other people. They tend to view self-doubt as dangerous: God will get mad if I doubt him; if I just plug ahead, God/Mom/dad will intervene.

The problem is that old brain chemistry. He can't jog, which was a healthier way to get the good stuff flashing in the brain. Thus the riding the bike, and minor weight gain. Yet there are enough problems that he has to be feeling some stress.

Still, the lashing out at a press conference, etc, are not new behaviors. All brats behave this way. For decades, it was his subtle signal for mommy to intervene.

His aides aren't seeing anything new. I seriously doubt that he would be being treated for anything with medication, with the possible exception of if he had an extended sleep disruption. Personality disorders such as his are not succesfully treated with medication.

[Pallas180]

99. H20 - Heck. You're going to make me pull out the PDR & look

up all Axis 2 disorders.

so then - what is the prognosis for an Axis 2?

[H2O Man]

102. There are people with

a cluster of pathological symptoms and behaviors. His narcissistic qualities are most evident from his public self. They can include many or all of the collection of symptoms and behaviors that we see. It would be necessary to have a better idea of his private life to say with any certainty what looms beneath the surface.

[Me.]

139. For a Second Day, Capital Hill Blue

is leading with a story about *ush's frame of mind. What I find particularly interesting about all this is, while there are disagreements about what exactly is wrong with him nobody disputes that there is something amiss. I've heard and read many hypothesis, from the comments on the board to suggestions of Graves disease. If he can't hold it together for this campaign and is the first domino down, while it won't affect indictments wouldn't it make it easier to prosecute it the Rove machine had to busy itself on other fronts, like defending *Ush's mental state and his ability to be the resident?

[Me.]

140. Link

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4930.shtml

[Pallas180]

167. Me - the writers of "depressed" mention names, so it seems

it may have credibility - hope you're posting the entire article
over on Sally McDonald's site.

From the Capitol Blue article:

"Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, the man most responsible for waging America’s war on terrorism, complains to staff that he gets very little time with the President and gets most of his marching orders lately from Ashcroft. Some on Ridge’s staff gripe privately that Ashcroft is “Bush’s Himmler,” a reference to Heinrich Himmler, Chief of the SS (the German Police) under Adolph Hitler.

“Too many make the mistake of thinking Dick Cheney is the real power in the Bush administration,” says one senior Homeland Security aide. “They’re wrong. It’s Ashcroft and that is reason enough for all of us to be very, very afraid.”

While Vice President Cheney remains part of Bush’s tight, inner circle, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has fallen out of favor and tells his staff that “no matter what happens in November, I’m outta here.”

White House aides say the West Wing has been overtaken by a “siege mentality,” where phone calls and emails are monitored and everyone is under suspicion for “disloyalty to the crown.”

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4...

[RebelYell]

94. I'm not seeing it

Here's your post from thread #12

"I am curious: at the bottom of you other thread on this on GD, a person posts that some democratic operatives tried to disrupt/discredit his site on the Plame case. Maybe we need to look closer at that .... and to consider some of the people we encountered in the past."

I don't see the post on that thread....what was this about? Thanks.

To all the others doing the research - you rock!

I'm convinced if we keep an open mind and look at all of the tidbits out there, the truth is somewhere in the middle of it. I wish I had more time, but this week is going to be a killer.

[H2O Man]

98. On the thread

that you posted regarding the Wilson website, a person posted something that mentioned disruption of a site regarding Plame. I asked the person for more information, which (s)he provided several hours later.

What I was thinking of regarded two people who used to frequent our threads here. They have not posted here in some time, but do seem to coordinate efforts on other related Wilson/Plame threads. Included in their efforts is an attempt to discredit these threads. But it has nothing to do with the people on here now.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

132. Well, well, if it ain't "merh"!

Regarding the Waterman Paper: I think if you look at the second section, you'll see that I listed the books & articles that I used in my research for the article. None of it was from these threads ... unless you're counting my posts, and I didn't need to mention that. It wouldn't make sense on a paper that I was posting on the same thread, would it?

I can't remember anyone discouraging you from posting, or anytime that your posts were treated disrespectfully. Even when you questioned me, I said --and did -- take time to examine my own behavior and attitude. For a variety of reasons, I simply didn't agree with you. If you actually do not know the subject matter of some DU e-mails sent to me, then it would be impossible for you to understand why. And it doesn't matter to me.

None of us participating on these Plame threads owns the forum space. But if there is a thread with an on-going, focused discussion, heading in one direction, and a tiny minority wants to have a different discussion, leading in a different direction, perhaps it's best if they start their own thread. That's significantly different from trying to "control" people's thinking, or discouraging open discussion. I've said before that if two people think just alike, only one person is thinking.

Now, as for a couple of your insults. Merh, merh, merh .... the person in an apartment who fears alligators is paranoid. The person hiking in the everglades who keeps a watchful eye open for alligators is not. Would you agree?

As for the teacher and related business, you are being silly at best. It's not necessary. You see things very differently. You have your own ideas and goals. I've been pretty open about my goals: to get people to ask "why?" , and to get 100 people to send letters to some elected officials and media sources.

With our opinions and goals being so very different, it is true that you and I will not be friends. We won't be looking to each other for support. But we don't have to be enemies. Good luck to you in what you do.

[merh]

134. Agreed! And I have been hiking the everglades of the entire

DU forum, where you sit in your apartment and write of the alligators that want to disrupt your group think. I agree with you whole heartedly. Get out and travel the everglades that is the entire DU board and the world outside and you will see that not everyone that disagrees with you is an alligator.

"Now, as for a couple of your insults. Merh, merh, merh .... the person in an apartment who fears alligators is paranoid. The person hiking in the everglades who keeps a watchful eye open for alligators is not. Would you agree?"

[H2O Man]

136. Never said you were an alligator.

Don't know you, don't care to. We don't have a personal relationship. I'm interested in continuing this series of threads as an effort in grass roots action. You appear to want to derail that process, and make it into a personality conflict. I can only come up with two reasons why, merh: (1) you have some unfulfilled needs, and you've made me into a symbol to toss crap at; or (2) you have a desire to discredit the efforts of a group of people working towards a goal that is in sight.

Either way, merh, you seem to be investing energy that is better spent elsewhere. Perhaps if you want to continue, you could focus on why you are opposed to our effort to examine what role VP cheney may have played in the exposing of Ms. Plame, or why you oppose our efforts to write letters to Sy Hersch and Henry Waxman?

[merh]

144. I have never opposed your efforts. I have applauded the letters

and the efforts of the group to get this matter in the open and under a microscope. I have applauded the efforts of the threads and have encouraged the letters. I have, however, opposed your insults and closed mindedness. Why is it that you insist upon twisting the truth and distorting the facts relative to my posts?

I will let the grand jury investigate the Plame matter. They have more resources and much more reliable sources. They have the power to subpoena records and witnesses. I will rely on Fitzpatrick as I know the research he can obtain is more detailed than anything that can be gathered from books, newspaper articles, magazines or internet articles.

If you want to use the net, why not follow the money trail? That is how investigations are pursued. Use the yahoo business section or Forbes or Dunn & Bradstreet to investigate the corporations you have found. These sites generally list the corporate officers and provide links to the SEC filings. You could use the Edgar search feature on the SEC's site to try track the corporate filings that are public record and available on the net(10K's, etc).

Go to the secretary of states office for each state that a corporation's home office is located (or Delaware, where alot of corps obtain their articles of incorporation) and see who is listed as the corporate officers.

Again, I do not try to disrupt your efforts, I just wish you were more tolerant of other's opinions and suggestions.

More power to you and the threads. May you find what you are searching for, just please stop insulting folks.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

147. Guess my mind works differently than yours.

I can stop, watch a television program, take a break and come back to the issue I have been focusing on. That does not negate my efforts or minimize my focus. It allows a recharge of sorts, a free flow of imagination if you will that affords my mind the chance to step out of the framework and to look beyond the obvious.

[H2O Man]

148. You certainly don't have to answer those questions,

I think that it was Beatle John who said that "a conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

152. That's fine!

You said something that is clearly not true. I again quote you, not from an old issue, but from this afternoon: "That you chose to write the paper based on the research of others as gathered in 10 threads or more and name it after yourself speaks volumes as to your intent." Now merh, I simply asked if you could back this up? Your statement? But we both know you can't. It's not true. And that "speaks volumes as to your intent." Now, come on merh, you aren't up to my "appeal for fair consideration of opposing thoughts?" Or are you just going to side-step an issue you brought up?

[merh]

153. Your paper speaks for itself

"Besides the eleven DU "Plame Indictment" threads, the information in this paper comes from the following four sources: The Politics of Truth, by Joseph Wilson; Worse Than Watergate, by John Dean; Don't Tread on Joseph Wilson, NYT book review by John Dean on 5-23-04; and Plenty to Swear About, by Joe Klein, Time, 7-5-04."

[H2O Man]

154. Come on, merh!

Show me a single thing in the paper that is from someone else on the threads? Not asking for ten things. Not asking for five. Nope, merh, just asking if you can back up what your saying. One single example, mirh?

Because if there isn't one single thing, merh, then we need to consider why you would make an inflammatory accusation? One that if it were true, you'd back it up? But you can't. You offer up a weak bit with a quote from me, giving a plug to this series of threads. But, you aren't able to back up your inflammatory accusation that "speaks volumes as to (my) intent."

[merh]

155. Don't have to - you said it yourself.

"Besides the eleven DU "Plame Indictment" threads, the information in this paper comes from the following four sources: The Politics of Truth, by Joseph Wilson; Worse Than Watergate, by John Dean; Don't Tread on Joseph Wilson, NYT book review by John Dean on 5-23-04; and Plenty to Swear About, by Joe Klein, Time, 7-5-04."

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pallas180]

165. H20 - we have posted here so that YOU & Others could take the information

and make use of it to educate ourselves, the media, the legislators, and each other.

We have used your words, and we all hope that you have found things
in our posts that you could use.

As Koho has expressed, myself, and many others; we all hope you will
write a book about our efforts and discoveries here, and our reactions, excitement, or upset at things we found.

We think it'll make a great book and a great movie.

And we say.....Just Do It!

One other thing - I have had several legnthy discussions with Stand-Up Guy. Mature discussions. His impatience to bring down the house
of cards has been met by my resistance and explanation that we have
to do this one step at a time. I could not agree with his plan,
he was impatient with mine and ours.

I did not attack him. He did not attack me.

It was an intersting and contributory conversation without personal
attack or rancor.

It left me with a respect for him and I think perhaps he has a respect for me and all of our efforts.

And although he doesn't post here, or does so rarely, he assures us
he reads every word.

I suspect many many read almost every word and follow this journey.

Now, H20, we are proud of our contributions here and thrilled with
the doors your guidance has opened for us.

But I must say Sir, kindly stop getting sidetracked.

Thank you, friend.

[Name removed]

185. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wind Dancer]

189. I realize I am jumping in late to these discussions

but am just catching up on the latest posts.

On a personal note, I have never felt that H20 has misrepresented his intentions or been closed minded with shared opinions. I have respected his optimism, encouragement and guidance throughout this research project - new information surfaces constantly from posters genuinely seeking answers to disturbing activities taking place within our government.

We are simply a group of folks individually contributing with the same shared goals. H20 offers his wisdom along with a simple plan to follow. Ask the questions, find out as many answers as possible, then contact those who may be able to pursue this at a deeper level.

I am not in a position to organize the material and put it all together. Thankfully, several participants have this capability. I have enormous respect for them and everybody else who contributes in their own way. Nobody is grandstanding but simply using their talents to contribute. Many people are sending letters on a regular basis but don't feel the need to post all of their activities on the board.

Again, on a personal note, I can't express my appreciation enough for everybody's insight and contribution to this project.

[merh]

166. This began as a simple request to you. All that was asked of you was

to try to use your influence to encourage the others to allow the free flow of information. Instead of considering the request and the complaints made, you went on the attack and began to defend. You have not admitted you were wrong that I recall, you simply chose to accuse others of trying to be disruptive. I do not have to cite language from your paper to support what you yourself said. The source of your information came from the DU threads and from books written by others, that is what you said in your paper, your words, not mine.

The quote you claim I made up was not attributed to you, it was an example of a better way to respond to the inquiry regarding disrupters. I did not attribute the words to you, I suggested that the words I quoted would have been a better response than your continued efforts to instill the chill of "terror" in your threads. If a different opinion is posted and if it rocks your theories then the poster must have ulterior motives and must be trying to derail your efforts - Terror, Terror, Terror!

What foolishness this has become. It is you that cannot admit your errors and cannot apologize for only cultivating thoughts that fit into your box.

That you doubt the credibility of my posts is of no concern to me. Go back through the listing of posters on DU and then examine the number of posters that add to your threads and you will see that the Plame Threads are not the envy of the neighborhood.

Ambassador Wilson was interviewed by a journalist that posts on DU and yet, your threads do not discuss his comments. They reference last night's interview, but no discussions have been had all day regarding his comments. Why is that?

Distort and twist as you like. I find it sad that it becomes a personal attack when someone challenges you to think outside of your "group think" and/or when someone asks you to stop rehashing the terror warnings that are not necessary to further your discourse.

:boring:

[shraby]

172. mehr

I've been reading your recent posts and I don't feel we have "group think". I for one have never in my life been accused of "group think". I find it good for people to throw in ideas of directions this thread can take and then grab one and investigate it. If the sideline comes to naught, there is always another to check out, and if that one yields substance it can be followed further to my satisfaction. Meanwhile another might find a different idea they would like to follow. At times we've found the two ideas have connected at a point into the investigation. That is in no way "group think". It's just good investigating.

There does seem to be one common thread throughout. The v.p. Cheney has been a bad boy..and has some nefarious contacts. These points wouldn't have been found through just staying with the Plame idea and what you call "group think". The information on Cheney was found by individual thinking and out of the box thinking. We've connected a lot of dots and more to go in order to get a complete picture of what has been transpiring for the last few decades. Now that the convention is history, maybe we can get down to business and dig some more.

You're welcome to join us if you have something to contribute and ideas to explore, but I would suggest you contribute and quit taking up valuable time arguing a moot point.

[kohodog]

156. mehr

why do you attack h20?
why do you discredit this thread?
why are you so defensive?
why do you care to intervene in a negative fashion?

I'm a newbie here, this thread drew me in and I signed on to du. I have disagreed with H20 and others at times as have many. If someone here feels this is a matter of groupthink I strongly disagree. But we do seem to have a common agenda: to bring this administration down, through the election, or should that be circumvented, through law. We are asking questions to bring attention to one of the more serious mistakes this administration has made that can be exploited by law.

Personally I think you are mistaken in attacking H20 as if he is using us somwhow for his own glory. I'd love to see a best selling book come out of this and H20 to make millions. But that's not what this is about.

But there is a fellowship of the interested who are trying to make a difference and call people to action.

How many letters have you written? How many "papers" have you written to help get to the bottom of a serious cancer in our government? I don't mean to imply that you are not active, but I haven't seen your draft letters or any other ideas for action that is the true goal of this thread.

[merh]

157. Oh koho - please take the time to review and see how many times

I had tried to add to the threads only to be corrected for my "misunderstandings" or told that I was foolish. It didn't just happen to me, there were others that were discouraged from taking part in the threads because they did not agree in toto with the group think.

I am not and have not tried to discredit the threads or H2O. He has chosen to attack and accuse "the silent ones" of trying to harm the efforts of the posters here when there were no such efforts made. When questioned on the thread all he had to do was say "That was then, this is now. The past is the past and we should move forward." He did not, he encouraged the misconception that someone tried to interfere with the efforts here. It was a misconception and no one has tried to stop these threads.

Regarding your inquiry as to what I have done, well, that is my business and I do not have to boast of my efforts to make them effective or to prove that I am involved.

My papers are many, my letters hundreds, my efforts, countless. I have been involved in trying to correct the injustices of this administration for years and my battles are personal. Do not discount my efforts just because I do not post them here for all to view.

My appeal has simply been that new ideas be welcomed and not ridiculed, that new posts encouraged and not chased away. Just because I do not think the same as others on these threads does not mean that my thinking is wrong. Take the challenge and review all of the threads, see how many were turned out because they differed from the dominate. Then notice how many posters in the threads have stopped participating, how the number of posters have diminished and notice that now there are just a few that partake in the threads.

You want letters written and a grass roots movement to have effect, then welcome more blades of grass to your yard.

May your endeavors be successful, my your posts be true and my you reach millions!

[kohodog]

159. Merh, we need new ideas

And it is interesting that you mention blades of grass... I am reading "Black Elk Speaks" and just read a passage about blades of grass! To make a difference we must be true to ourselves and make our own peace.

I guess I don't see the point of these attacks. We are trying to make a difference here in a small way. ,This bickering is a waste of energy, so I wish you well and hope we collaborate on an issue where we can agree.

peace

[Pallas180]

160. KOHO

a diversion.

a distraction.

the politics of personal attacks.

now, where have we seen that before?

enough said.

I agree with you Koho.

[H2O Man]

216. Black Elk Speaks:

a great book. Two of my favorite pages (72 & 114) give the best recorded description of his cousin, Crazy Horse.

In my humble opinion, the most interesting part from a psychological stand-point is the concept of the "center of the world." Of course, for Black Elk, it is a mountain. As a young man, he viewed it in the literal sense, due to his enlightenment. But as he got older, he viewed it in a manner that Joseph Campbell sees as common among enlightened elders: Black Elk recognized that everywhere on earth was the "exact center of the world."

When a group of us discussed the president's psychological make-up, we could use a similar example. Very small children believe that they are the exact center of the universe. Everything they experience is in this context. Most children begin to recognize that other people are real beings, not a mere extension of their wants and needs. But not all kids do. We recognize them as spoiled brats, and, by high school, the most obnoxious of people. President bush still is convinced that he is the exact center of the universe, and that the great God him/herself is backing his political policies. This is a severe form of moral retardation.

It amazes me sometimes that the world pays more attention to a man with a severe moral retardation, like bush, and ignores the quite old man found at the margins of traditional society. It's sad to think that the mountains that Black Elk and Crazy Horse lived in are being mined and destroyed for weapons-grade minerals.

[kohodog]

230. Black Elk and Kennedy's "Crimes against Nature"

A potent duo of books to be reading at the moment.

How anyone in this administration can claim any shred of Spirituality of any kind, including Christian.

I feel sad for what they've done to the earth and the people of the earth. He is traveling down the black road Black Elk saw in his vision.

We have our work cut out for us.

[H2O Man]

240. Robert's father spent time on Sioux Territory....

Perhaps you're familiar with Vine Deloria, who in "Custer Died For Your Sins," (New York;1969; see pages 192 & 272) commented on RFK in what Arthur Schlesinger called "a fine sentence" (Robert Kennedy & His Times; Ballentine; 1978; see pgs 853-854) that Robert was a man "who could move from world to world, and never be a stranger anywhere." Vine also writes that the Sioux saw RFK as "the White Crazy Horse," because he always did whaty he thought was for the best of his people. He notes that Kennedy "somehow validated obscure undefined feelings of Indian people which they had been unwilling to admit to themselves. Spiritually, he was an Indian."

One of the first times I talked with Robert Jr., I remember him saying that in the Americas, the traditional Indians are the environment consciousness.

You would like --if you haven't already read -- A Basic Call to Consciousness, which is a book about the Haudenosaunee's 1977 presentation to the Non-Governmental Organizations of the UN at Geneva.

[Pallas180]

247. H20 - And Black Elk's vision was

?

lay it on us,

things can be changed only if one becomes aware
of it.

[kohodog]

255. Pallas, I think I referred to Black Elk's vision

And I just read it. It will take several readings and some time to digest. Give me a few days to assimilate it (if I can).

But I hear Coyotes outside as I write so I hope I'll be able to shed some light on it soon.

H20, Thanks for the reading suggestion. I will look into it.

[H2O Man]

259. kohodog:

I haven't read Black Elk in many years. I tried to fill in some in answer to Pallas; if you could add to it, maybe we could interest others in reading it.

You have great taste in books!

[kohodog]

263. I am in the mountains now,

and have a small but (apparently) powerful bit of native ancestry. I have always been drawn to the woods and creatures therein.

It is interesting to me that many native cultural beliefs seem to be based on the relationship of all things together in nature. Cultures that believe in "Sky Gods" seem to be much more heirarchical in nature, and rather than all being equal there is a definate pecking order.

Black Elk is teaching me about another worldview based on a wholistic view of the world and it's inhabitants.

I will wait to speak of his vision until I have assimilated it a bit more, but I think this may interest some people.

It's scarey when certain individuals seem to think they have a direct line to a sky God (aka Bush). It seems that in other cultures the connection to Spirituality tended to be met with great humility, not hubris.

[H2O Man]

264. Black Elk and others

communicate with the spirits, whereas george w. believes THE God has selected him. Very diofferent thing.

[H2O Man]

256. Wow. That's hard to do.

Perhaps if everyone who is reading or has read this classic book joins in, we can. First, Black Elk and his cousin were Lakota, or Sioux, from the Great Plains. Must be that Kevin Costner used to pick good movies, because that one "Dances With Wolves" was about the Lakota culture. That's two of his movies that are part of these Plame threads!

Anyhow, it's pretty hard to translate the symbols from one era of a culture, into a very different era of an entirely different culture. But his book is the approximate Book of Revelations. But, before I start, let me give an example of the difficulty of translation:

Black Elk was describing his cousin, the Holy Man Crazy Horse. And he said, "He was a queer man. Maybe he was always part way into his world of vision." This book was authored by John Neihardt in the early 1900s. He was translating that Crazy Horse was a spiritual man, always at least half in trance.

But every year, a group for gay & lesbian rights lists "famous homosexuals." They list Crazy Horse. Well, this is a giggle with the old Lakota women, because Crazxy Horse had some behaviors in common with Martin Luther King and Bill Clinton. He was married, and got shot in the face for laying with another man's wife --for a few months -- and he had children. He wasn't gay.

What is more important is that Sioux society had no "hang-ups" about homosexual people in the days before white "civilization." There were well-known and fully accepted gay individuals; hence, if Crazy Horse were gay, it wouldn't have been a secret. But like I say, when I talk to the older women there, they think this is so funny.

I've spent more time learning about Crazy Horse than Black Elk, simply from what line of extended families that I am familiar with. But safe to say, both were odd kids. And a combination of illness etc would result in their seeing an older odd man. And they would go on a "vision quest," and do numerous cleansing ceremonies, like sweat lodge ceremonies, and Black Elk sun danced.

Black Elk loved to fast and vision. He had a series of times he visited the "real world," and he translated it in symbolic language, but it fits the mold of the heroes' journey by Campbell. But it was so much more: he saw into the future, and many of his visions fit the high tech societies' weapons of death & destruction.

Crazy Horse spent extended periods in "caves and holes" in the mountains, out where "the spirits may help" him. (pg 114 B.E.S.)

[kohodog]

258. The places we go on these threads!

It's amazing to juxtapose the possible with the harsh realities of this cabal. The idea that this admin wants to develop "small" nukes, and their principals are involved with the spread of these weapons points to their true nature. And it has not been an overnight development, but they have been working in concert over time to get to this point.

Let's keep working to expose them.

Thank you H20 for reminding me of Campbell too. I only learned of him though my son's eighth grade teacher!

[H2O Man]

260. Think about many of the primitive visions:

of deadly forces that come from under the earth's surface : uranium, etc. The descriptions of missle-like objects, chariots, etc. Hmmm.

[never cry wolf]

277. OMG!

Nothing substantive, really to add here, but Joseph Campbell is the TROOFFF!. Listened to most of the PBS series...

Also, I read "Shoeless Joe" by W.P. Kinsella, the novel upon which Field of Dreams was based upon, as well as his later novel "The Iowa Baseball Conspiracy." The latter novel really got into some native american traditional thought, such as they had no concept of personal ownership of property or things. Borders were not borders, but just tribal areas that all respected. They did not even have a concept for a square or rectangle (in reference to a plan, plat or anything else.) All things were circular, spiral or other amorphous, natural shapes. Ie:A wolf packs territory was roughly a circle, that was their only concept of property ownership.

I also just returned from NW ontario, where we have a small cabin on an island. We heard the wolves on the mainland, we saw bears and bald eagles, and the loons... every time we go, I try to imagine the native americans (first nations in Canada) before the white man came in, and how they must have been in absolute AWE of the perfection of nature.

How I wish I could know more... Is the book referenced above a good source??

Way off topic here, guys, but I am smart enough to know I don't know shit, and where to humbly ask for more info...

BTW: have I thanked you guys lately??

[H2O Man]

283. A couple suggestions.....

(1) The Portable North American Indian Reader; edited by F W Turner; Viking; 1973. This has a number of very good stories that sound like something you would enjoy reading on that beautiful island get-away .... or in the comfort of your own home, when you dream of being back in that cabin.

(2) Vine Deloria has several classic books on current traditional Indian thought. "We Talk, You Listen" and "Custer Died For Your Sins" are both very, very good books.

I would always recommend Black Elk Speaks. Also, "Exhiled In the Land of the Free," with Oren Lyons, is a super book. Anything associated with Oren is high-quality.

[H2O Man]

163. regarding a book:

I'd think that I made it clear that my idea for a book was only as a fund-raiser for DU. I did say that I would offer (free of any charge) my help in doing so.

The idea of my basking in the glory of these threads is curious. We are witness to a difference in values. Two people have accused me of stealing other DUers' ideas; of wanting to profit from this; and called me a few names.

To my way of thinking, the only important thing on here is how much good energy you invest. There are better researchers than me. Others do a better job of contacting the media. I'm not only okay with people having equal and greater talents, I want that .... because I'm enjoying working on a team. There is no "team captain." No "teacher."
Just a team.

[Pallas180]

169. Dear H20 you know I write with run-on sentences ending with prepositions,

otherwise I would try, KOHO gets straight to the point, and
RobertPaulsen speaks in shorthand, i.e. Paulsenese.....
Schraby is also a straight to the pointer ----ME is a me of
few words, DEM in NC is frustrated to the point of cheneying,
Calimary is a good possibility, but who could put in quotes of
MLK, RFK, Malcolm, RFK JR., Buddha and more? Who has the time
to read 150 books a month????

Go ahead. Bask in the glory. Would it have gone on for 14 threads and more without you?

It never has before, so there's no reason to think it would have,
without your guidance and urging us to focus on certain avenues.

It's okay to take a bow.

In fact, I think we insist on it. You deserve a lotta "Attaboys".

Is that right guys?

[shraby]

173. I agree wholeheartedly

with you about H20. He got our brains working...when we're done he may be sorry he ever started. :evilgrin:

[Pallas180]

175. LOL Schraby - that could be true - and a lotta other people may be

sorry he found the key to motivate us too. lol

:hi:

[Pallas180]

184. And let's not forget Rebel Yell and Daria or Kgfnally and Beam Me Up

reknowned for their "technical abilities" and where would these threads be without them.....and Tactical Peak, and the many others whose short and sweet "one liners" have led us to goldmines of
information....and all those whose letters have reached outside
of his threads to make people aware there are questions to be asked
and answers they should be gettting.

[H2O Man]

187. Turning this into a book

would be easy. We'd just need to "keep it simple." (Malcolm)

There are about 15 main characters on here. And a dozen more part-time characters. And the focus of these characters is the Wilson/Plame affair. A discussion forum is transformed into a think tank. It finds direction as an itty-bitty example of grass roots democracy in action.

At this point, all we need is an ending .... which will come with the indictments.

It would be easy to write a fun & educational book. I could whip it out quicker than a Jim Morrison book of poetry. But, as I've said, I would do it as a fund-raiser for DU, as an anonymous author.

I'm far less interested in that, however, than in getting a 100 letters to Sy H and H Waxman.

[coeur_de_lion]

51. This is the most interesting piece of news reported on this thread

as far as I'm concerned. This is very important, if true.

Have you got a link for the news service article?

I don't want to get my hopes too high, but this might mean the end of * and his lousy cabal. Or at least, it might mean the end of *. The rest of them will scatter like roaches and come back out when the lights go off.

[Occulus]

63. Well well well.

Rats and sinking ships. Can it be possible some of them know everything's starting to fall apart?

[Pallas180]

53. Saudi & dimson family covert operations and support for Saddam:

" Yet few Americans realised that these two dynasties, the Bush family and the House of Saud, had a history dating back more than 20 years. Not just business partners and personal friends, the Bushes and the Saudis had pulled off elaborate covert operations and gone to war together. They had shared secrets that involved unimaginable personal wealth, spectacular military might, the richest energy resources in the world. "

" They had been involved in the Iran-contra scandal, and in secret US aid in the Afghanistan war that gave birth to Osama bin Laden. Along with then vice-president Bush, the Saudis has joined the United States in supporting the brutal Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein for seven full years after knowing that he had used weapons of mass destruction. "

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/071904I.shtml

[merh]

145. Did you view the interview of Ambassador Wilson on TruthOut?

It is a video. WillPitt said they do not have time to transcribe it.
Just go to the site and on the right side of the page, about a middle of the way down, you will see that links to the interviews. It is pretty good.

http://www.truthout.org/dnc04.shtml


WillPitt's thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2095708

[robertpaulsen]

59. Just wanted to bring up an anticlimactic point on Lashkar-e-Toiba

Pallas' post on Lashkar-e-Toiba on thread 13 had a wealth of good info. I just wanted to point out a sentence that stood out for me:

To finance its day-to-day activities, the LeT leverages its contacts in Saudi Arabia as well as launches donation campaigns with overseas Pakistanis, especially middle class and wealthy Punjabis in Britain, Australia and the Middle East. According to Jane's Terrorism & Insurgency Centre, Osama bin Laden has also financed LeT activities until recently. The LeT, under its new name JuD, uses its outreach networks including schools, social service groups and religious publications to attract and brainwash recruits for jihad in Kashmir and other places.

http://www.crikey.com.au/politics/2004/05/18-0003.html

So, in addition to being an organization whose conventions served as a breeding ground for A.Q. Khan, S.B. Mahmood, I.S.I and the whole Nuclear Walmart, they were financed by the Phantom Menace himself.

[Pallas180]

61. RP - side issue

Our issue is illegal Cheney Khan distribution of WMD to Libya, North Korea, Syrria, Iran making it possible for the Phantom to eventually
obtain that weapon which threatenes the world.

We know Khan was overseer of Phantom's enterprisesin Africa - that
is the connection that convinces us he has the dirty bomb at least
and the means to set if off from Khan through the supply from the
Cheney companies and divisions: Halliburton Logging anyone?

But our focus is ridding this country of the treasonous admin. through exposing their criminality and greed.

So - get back to work :) with focus on the distribution from Rumsfeld and Cheney to Khan .......end result of making it possible to pass onto the Phantom will be obvious.

[robertpaulsen]

64. I know - slow day for me about to end - but is this within our focus?

:)
I know it's old news, but I thought I might resurrect it to ask if anyone wants to try to find the answer: which US firm could it have been?

U.S. firm tied to nuclear-arms black market
Associated Press

VIENNA, Austria (AP) - More than 20 firms - including at least one American company - have supplied rogue nations seeking nuclear arms, marking the first time a U.S. company has been linked to the black market network.

International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei, who is heading a probe into the illicit sales, avoided specifics on the locations of the companies in an interview with The Associated Press Friday.

But a senior diplomat said at least one was in the United States - the first time in five months of investigations by the U.N. nuclear agency that an American company has been implicated in the black market network headed by Pakistani scientist Abdul Qadeer Kahn.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/07/10/build/world/80-firm-arms.inc

See y'all tomorrow!

[Pallas180]

65. RobertPaulsen. Laughing. Now you're cookin". Wonder

which firm it could be.....duh

[Pallas180]

66. Al Sharpton is a hard act to follow. That man has a way of telling it.

.

[kohodog]

68. Al is da bomb!

(Is that a word I shouldn't use here)?

[Pallas180]

74. YESSSS . LOL

.

[Pallas180]

90. RP - Sy Hersh on PakistanKhan visiting North Korea, but

doesn't seem to have made the connections we have made.

I think he might like to have them - if we can find him.


http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030127fa_fact

[Pallas180]

72. HoHoHo Xmas in July. Perle + Kissinger - Dr. Strangelove behind all again?

Hollinger International Inc.- global publisher

Conrad Black, Esq., Chairman of the Board of Directors, ex-CEO, and ex-Director.
F. David Radler, Deputy Chairman, President, COO
Daniel Colson, Vice Chairman, Deputy Chairman, CEO and Director of The Telegraph
Gordon A. Paris, Interim President (Dec 2003) and CEO; Director
Peter Lane, CFO and Vice President
Richard N. Perle, Director, member of the Executive Committee, and Director and Co-Chairman of Hollinger Digital Inc..
Henry A. Kissinger, member of the board of directors
James R. Thompson, member of the board of directors



"Hollinger International Inc. is a large media publishing company that "operates through its subsidiaries and affiliated companies as a global publisher with English-language newspapers in the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada and Israel." It also owns a "large number of community newspapers in the Chicago area and a portfolio of new media investments" <1>

During November 2003 the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) announced that it was investigating the company. After an admission that several directors had received unauthorized payments totalling $32 million, CEO Conrad Black resigned, but stayed on as Chairman. <2>

The SEC is also (as of December 2003) investigating dealings with companies with links to Henry Kissinger and Richard N. Perle. Hollinger put £8m into UK firm Cambridge Display Technology, in which Perle has a stake, and £1.5m in Trireme Associates, which has links to venture capital fund Trireme Partners LP, co-managed by Perle. Kissinger served as a board member of Trireme. <3>

Hollinger International makes an annual contribution of $200,000 to The National Interest, a conservative quarterly magazine that also has links to Perle and Kissinger. <4>

The Company's assets include The Daily Telegraph (part of the Telegraph Group in the UK), The Spectator (UK), the Chicago Sun-Times, the New York Sun (13%), The Jerusalem Post (English daily newspaper), and La Republica (Central America)


-more-

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Hollinger_International_Inc.

[kohodog]

77. Wow Pallas,

I think I need to follow Kissinger more closely! He turns up under every rock that gets turned over!

(I met him when I was 16, obvious to me then that he was an arrogant s.o.b

WHOA, I just went back to to your link and "the content was removed"

holy shit

[kohodog]

78. Holy doubleshit Batman

Now the link says "there is no content"

what the hell is going on here.

I'm going to need some of *'s meds.

[Pallas180]

79. you're kidding me.

I'm gonna go look

[kohodog]

80. I wish I was Pallas

There's somethin' goin' on around here, what it is ain't exactly clear.

Please pinch me.

[Pallas180]

82. KOHO - It's there. Perle + Kiss - scan or defrag maybe?

:hi:

[kohodog]

83. Pallas, mabe your's is cached...

I'm on a mac, res5arted, and the article is gone. First message: This page has been removed." Second time: "There is no content on this page."

Any help,...anyone?... Bueller???

[Pallas180]

84. KOHO - not cached - but go here: Hollinger

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Hollinger_International_Inc.

or enter

Perle + Kissinger in google

or Perle + Hollinger

[TheCentepedeShoes]

86. Yeah, kohodog, me too --

I thought I'd heard the name before so I googled "Hollinger International Inc." and got a gold mine and some media stuff, a "Lord Black," and a whole list of comapanies. Like Butch and Sundance asked, "Who are these guys?"

[kohodog]

89. hi 100shoes

The google search brought me back to the pallas article.

Thanks, I was geting spooked there for a minute.

[Pallas180]

81. Okay. Try this on Kissofdeath. Pls read all of it-eye opener

the extent of his involvement and influence in every facet of US
government and foreign policy for almost 60 years is pretty awful from our viewpoint.

"Heinz Alfred Kissinger was born on May 27, 1923, in Fuerth, Germany, ... the young Kissinger was forced to flee Hitler’s anti-Semitic regime, settling with his family in New York City in 1938."

( Editorial of Pallas: Kissinger now claims to have no religion as I recall or to be an atheist. What comes to my mind, is a saying I used to see on the Catholic Church in our town :" " Give me your children from the age of 5 and they are mine for life". Heinz Kissinger's youth and education took place from the impressionable age of 7 or 10 years old to 15 in Hitler's Nazi Germany. Do you get my drift?)

"Kissinger has been labeled a conservative "realist" but can be
considered a "neo-con" (neo-conservative). Kissinger is believed to be a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderberg Group. He has been identifed as a protege of Nelson A. Rockefeller.


much much more -

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Henry_A._Kissinger












http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Henry_A._Kissinger

[Pallas180]

85. OOPS. I dont know that I like what Edwards

just said:

"We will strengthen our military and obtain the newest
equipment"

hmmm - more military/industrial complex? a promise to Bilderbeg?

a message to the military/industrial?

hmmmmm?

[Pallas180]

87. We need to send John Edwards our letters and discoveries.

.

[shraby]

174. It was gone for me when I

looked earlier, too.

[Pallas180]

254. OK Guys, I have my puter fixed not to leave cookies-that site

may be taking your cookie, sees you wanna come back again, and locks
you out. Is that reasonable?

Anybody who want me to print whole thing out, I will.

Just say so.

:hi:

[Pallas180]

88. I'd like to know why CNN has had Ralph Reed & other rethuglicans

on all through the convention but especially today critiquing
John Edwards and the speakers.

Outrage!

I wish Ted Turner could buy CNN back. Maybe then we'g get real
news.

[shraby]

95. I tried googling

Wolfowitz and didn't come up with much..then watched the convention. Al Sharpton was great! Kucinich suprised me..didn't know there was that much oomph to him. Liked what I heard tho. They said things that needed to be said, but the candidates can't say cause the republicans and pundits would be all over them like a bunch of sugar ants on honey.

[Pallas180]

101. Did you notice

it was as if the cable pundits thought they were in control of the
convention - asking Sharpton "didn't you say the wrong thing - nobody was supposed to say anyting negative about dimson'....and so on ...again and
again.

I couldn't believe my ears.

Who the hell do these people think they are.

I thought Sharpton was probably the best speech of the evening.
Right up there with Big Dawg.

Except for the fact that he feels the need to shout when he says thousands of people, which he didn't do in town hall meetings with all
presidential candidates.

And Tweety. ASking why should he be up there when his whole career was
built on a lie and cop hating......(referring to the Tawanna, thing) however Sharpton's whole career was not built on a lie....he was around before that. And he didn't think it was a lie certainly.

[H2O Man]

103. Rev Al was given 6 minutes

on the scheduled program. Judging by the fact that we heard 20 minutes from him, it's safe to say he went "off script." That's good. He said a few things that needed to be said. And I don't think that any democrat minds. (smile)

Rev. Al is a character. The Tawana B incident was, to paraphrase Gandhi, his Himalayan miscalculation. It has nothing to do with the November election.

[coeur_de_lion]

96. Iraq and Niger: A Twisted, Tangled Tale (Business Week)

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jul2004/nf20040729_9001_db056.htm
<<snip>>
JULY 29, 2004
By Stan Crock

Iraq and Niger: A Twisted, Tangled Tale
Despite two painstaking inquiries, the truth about Saddam's attempts to buy black-market uranium remains clouded in confusion.

If you want to understand how the intelligence community could have gotten so much wrong before 9/11 and the Iraq war, two recent reports offer eye-opening case studies of the murky world of intel analysis. Usually, 20-20 hindsight is perfect. But even Monday morning quarterbacks in the U.S. and Britain can't agree on what conclusions to reach about alleged Iraqi efforts to obtain uranium in Niger for a nuclear-weapons program.

This has enormous consequences. A huge flap erupted over the 16 words on the topic in President Bush's State of the Union speech last year. And a special counsel is investigating whether anyone at the White House broke the law in disclosing the name of a CIA employee whose husband issued a report on the Niger effort.

AFRICAN WHISPERS. Let's start at the beginning: According to the scenario laid out in a July 14 report by Britain's Lord Butler, some Iraqi officials visited a number of African countries, including Niger, in early 1999. Three-quarters of Niger's exports are uranium, and Iraq had purchased uranium from the country in the late 1970s, before Baghdad became self-sufficient in the mining of the ore.

Trouble is, the mines were damaged in the first Persian Gulf War. And with international inspectors in Iraq in the '90s guarding whatever ore was out of the ground, Baghdad would have had to import uranium to pursue its bomb.
<<snip>>

[H2O Man]

100. It is true that some Iraqi officials

had contact in early 1999 with Niger's leaders. However, according to three reports, (one by Wilson; one by an American ambassador; and one by a 4-star American general) there was NO DISCUSSION OF URANIUM.

The senate report made note of Wilson's documenting that one Niger official wondered if the Iraqi's were going to mention uranium. But they did not. This is the entire foundation that the senate report uses to build its case that "Wilson's report indirectly supports the claim." Think of that: one Niger official said he thought that maybe the Iraqis wanted to discuss uranium, but when he met with them, it was not mentioned. It's hardly up to the standard of evidence that the senate should demand.

[coeur_de_lion]

142. I thought it was interesting that the article appeared in

Business Week. Who woulda thunk?

These smears, no matter how untrue, are what the general public sees. They are not digging around for the articles we read about this stuff. They just pick up their subscription copy of Business Week, IBD, WSJ, read and believe whatever they see.

I wish there was something we could do about this.

[spotbird]

104. Kerry Campaign confirms Wilson is still on board.

KERRY'S FOREIGN FOLLIES: STANDING BY JOE

July 29, 2004 -- DEMOCRAT John Kerry's campaign yesterday gave a ringing endorsement to Bush-bashing Ambassador Joe Wilson — even though a bipartisan Senate committee just found so many holes in his story that even his own wife won't back it up.
Wilson claimed President Bush lied about whether Saddam Hussein was seeking yellowcake uranium from Niger, and Wilson knew it because the CIA sent him there. The Senate report says, if anything, the truth is the opposite of what Wilson claimed.

But that doesn't seems to bother the Kerryites, who yesterday hailed Wilson's "integrity" and said he's still very much a part of the team that Kerry hopes will make him commander in chief. "Joe Wilson has served for many months as an informal adviser to the Kerry campaign and continues to do so," said Kerry foreign policy adviser Susan Rice,

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/18230.htm

Sometimes a closed web page is just a closed web page.

[Pallas180]

105. tnis deserves a Letter to Editor with 911 Comm report that Cheney

"claimed info that Comm didn't know, but refused to produce any.

We can only assume that the man who gives new meaning to the
title VICE president is the liar, and not Joe Wilson.

The assertion that Valerie Plame won't back up her husband is
so juvenile and misleading that it's assinine.

The woman is a covert CIA agent, or was, and is prohibited on
speaking out on any of this under penalty.

Who writes your stuff anyway, Murdoch himself?

Is this another " Gephardt Is It !" front page story.

You should be ashamed."

Signed

__________________

[RebelYell]

106. Thank you for posting this

The repubs are working overtime to discredit Mr. Wilson.

My repub boss and I debate this issue daily. He's the person that brought the page redirect to my attention. I'm about to rub his nose in this article.

[H2O Man]

107. The extent to which

the administration and its lap dogs will go to distort and confuse the truth, is a good measure of how important this issue is.

Thus far, every issue that they bring up is EASILY answered. While the entire case is filled with complexities, the truth is relatively simple.

My father used to say that if you tell the truth, you've committed yourself to one story. But if you lie, you can adjust and change whenever its convenient. Wilson is an honest man. He has told the same story, with the same set of facts, from the giddy-up. The administration has lied and distorted.

We're gonna have a good time when this goes to trial.

[H2O Man]

109. More at CNS News. Com:

Wilson spoke to the press this morning after leaving a meeting in Boston. He confirmed that he will "continue to advise Kerry on foreign policy matters."

"On my road to Boston, I was ambushed. I was ambushed by the Republican National Committee-directed smear campaign, based upon lies and distortion. I've been accused of being a traitor to my country and of being a liar."

Wilson made clear that the Senate Select Committee's Intelligence report does NOT show him to be "anything less than truthful," despite republican efforts to spin it otherwise.

"I still serve as a surrogate and I still serve as a member of the foreign policy advisory committee. I am not a paid advisor, and I talk to the campaign. You can quote me on that."

Wilson continued with a detailed discussion of the terrible situation in Iraq. He noted that the bush administration can not possible be capable of rebuilding Iraq because they have "absolutely no credibility."

When John Dean said Wilson is the wrong man for the administration to mess with, he was on target.

[Wind Dancer]

112. They have been in a full "attack and destroy credibility"

mode - the scare tactics used are the norm for anybody who dares speak out.

Mob Mentality

"This team is tough. You cross them and they go after you and raise questions about you and your credibility rather than what you have to say," Thomas Mann ("Newsview: Cross Bush, Face Payback," The Associated Press, March 27, 2004)

"If smear and slander can be an art form, they've perfected it. This is not their first smear rodeo." -- John Weaver ("Bush Martial Art: Attack On Clarke Is 'Smear Rodeo,'" The New York Observer, April 5, 2004)

"These are mean and nasty people, when it comes down to it," -- Richard Clarke (Nightline, March 24, 2004)

"These people are nasty and they have a long memory." -- Former Secretary of the Treasury Paul O'Neill, ("Confessions of a White House Insider," Time, Jan. 11, 2004)

"The Bush people have no right to speak for my father, particularly because of the position he's in now. Yes, some of the current policies are an extension of the '80s. But the overall thrust of this administration is not my father's -- these people are overly reaching, overly aggressive, overly secretive, and just plain corrupt. I don't trust these people." -- Ronald Reagan, Jr. ("Reagan blasts Bush," Salon.com, April 14, 2003)

"It's a very closed, small, controlled group. This is an administration that determines what it thinks and then sets about to prove it. There's almost a religious kind of certainty. There's no curiosity about opposing points of view. It's very scary. There's kind of a ghost agenda." -- Bonnie Beers ("Former Aide Takes Aim at War on Terror," The Washington Post, June 16, 2003)

"If you want to know the truth, I blame the Bush campaign for the death of Nelson, one of the best journalists in America. Nelson saw what was going on in Florida early on, and he didn't see it with any equanimity: One of his colleagues at the Daily News called him on the day of his death, the afternoon of the televised Florida Supreme Court argument, and recalled Nelson crying out, "I can't believe they said that!" over some outrageous assertion by the lawyers for Ms. Harris and Mr. Bush. A few hours later, he was found in front of his television set, dead of a stroke. No one will convince me it was unrelated." Ron Rosenbaum, ("Of Bush, the Harris Rumor and James Baker's Junta," The New York Observer, Dec. 4, 2000)

"Karen Hughes accused me of lying. And so I called Karen and asked her why she was saying this, and she had this almost Orwellian rap that she laid on me about how things she'd heard -- that I watched her hear -- she in fact had never heard, and she'd never heard Bush use profanity ever. It was insane...the way she lied was she knew I knew she was lying, and she did it anyway. There is no word in English that captures that. It almost crosses over from bravado into mental illness...." Tucker Carlson (Salon.com interview, Sept. 13, 2003)

"I thought I had done a good job for the people of Georgia . I thought they knew me as someone who had served and sacrificed for the country, as someone who was willing to defend the country 35 years ago ... But the White House and the media image makers turned me into some kind of villain," Vietnam veteran Sen. Max Cleland, ("Cleland compares election loss to losing limbs," Associated Press, June 14, 2003)

"Sadly, what we have here is a continuing pattern by this White House. If any member of this Senate, Democrat or Republican, takes to the floor, questions this White House policy, raises any questions about the gathering of intelligence information or the use of it, be prepared for the worst." -- Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) ("Senator fights leak allegation," The Hill, July, 2003)

"It's a shot across the bow. . . that if you talk we'll take your family and drag them through the mud as well," -- Ambassador Joseph Wilson, on the Bush White House's felonious tactics. ("Columnist Blows CIA Agent's Cover," Newsday, July, 22, 2003)

"After Zinni challenged the administration's rationale for the Iraq war last fall, he lost his job as President George W. Bush's Middle East peace envoy after 18 months. "I've been told I will never be used by the White House again.'" - (" GW Bush's America: Americans Pay Price for Speaking Out, Dissenters Face Job Loss, Arrest, Threats But Activists not Stopped by Backlash," The Toronto Star, Aug. 9. 2003)

"Essentially, Mr. Bush and the owners' group he led bullied and misled the city into raising taxes to build a $200 million stadium that in effect would be handed over to the Rangers. As part of the deal, the city would even confiscate land from private owners so that the Rangers owners could engage in real estate speculation. "It was a $200 million transfer to Bush and Rangers owners. . . " -- Nicholas Kristof ("Bush and the Texas Land Grab," The New York Times, July 16, 2002)

"But, it's like saying, are you going to be the president of the people who don't vote for you? Yes, I am. And, there will be a certain sense of discipline." -- President George Bush, (Transcript of the president's comments on whether or not Mexico would back the U.N., resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq, Copley News Service, March 6, 2003)

http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/04/far04012.html


We, the people, can't allow a government to intimidate and scare us!

[H2O Man]

114. An interesting article:

see: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5548506/

It is the beginning of the media's responses to the bush administration's lies and distortion.

[Pallas180]

116. Who volunteeers to send

Stan Crock of Business week online a copy of
The Waterman Paper?

in response to the article H20 posted?

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5548506


It might help diffuse his confusion.

we are the bzzzzing mosquitoes..which eventually can't be ignored
and the more we get out there by fax, snail, or e mail (least desirable) the more attention us tiny gnats are going to be to
the falsehoods.

[Pallas180]

115. FRUSTRATEDDEMNC - magnificent! Please

would you post it as a separate thread

called "Is This America or Brownshirts Redux"
and ask readers to pass it on to other sites.

EVERYONE needs to be reminded of their tactics .

What a find DEM! Congrats!

[Wind Dancer]

121. I can't believe what is happening!!!!!

I am so upset at one of the other threads - please read:

This is serious stuff - "the left are dangerous Nazis who are getting far too powerful". I am so angry right now I can barely type. What is going on? How are we supposed to deal with a government owned media spewing out his kind of BS. This is the first time I have feared we may possibly lose the election and then have a civil war. Please tell me I am overreacting!!!!!!!!!!!!!



The Media Whores Should be Ashamed!!! (Vent)

Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 02:39 PM by Armstead
Last nite I attempted to follow some of the convention coverage on the cable networks. I suspect my blood pressure has risen by several points.

1)Bill O'Reilly was spouting off about how dangerous the present situation is because the left has become like Nazis in their control of information. Michael Moore is the second most powerful man in the Democratic Party, and he was literally compared to Goebells, Hitler's propaganda chief. According to Billy, the left are dangerous Nazis who are getting far too powerful.

2)None of the networks bothered showing Dennis K's speech. Frankly, it wasn't a great speech (I did see it on CSpan) but Dennis was a presidential candidate, for God sake. CNN had Anderson Cooper talking with some comedians and had some whimsical report about nothing at all instead. So much more important to hear what Anderson thinks than what a presidential candidate has to say to the convention.

3)Chris Matthews and his panel interrupted Sharpton's speech and they were all filled with righteous indignation that Sharpton went off script. He, Howard Fineman and Doris Goodman were all atwitter about how Sharpton had hijacked the convention, and what it was an outrage was that such a demonstration of liberal and black anger and "Bush bashing" was allowed to be seen in public.


4)After Edwards' speech, and a few perfunctory words from Wolfie, Judy and Jeff Greenfield, they chose to give at least ten minutes of uninterrupted attack spin by Ralph Reed attacking Edwards and Kerry and Democrats....Those CNN fuckheads couldn't even allow the audience any time to digest Edwards speech and feel good (if one liked it) or at least make up one's own mind.....The only consolation was that Ralph Reed came across as so dark and angry and mean-spirited after Edward's sunny optimistic speech.

Screw the mainstream media. The nation had better wake up DAMN SOON that democracy is in grave danger because we have turned over the media so completely to Corporate Mind Shapers and to PT Barnum journalism.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2100026

[Pallas180]

126. DEM IN NC - you know what I say?

"cheney em"

I saw the same things you did which is why I turned to
C Span for coverage without the assinine commentary and
cutting out speeches.

We could e mail Wolf and ask is he taking his talking points
directly from Rove and the RNC - and we were horrified to
see Ralph Reed interjected into the convention...

and we could just realize General Electric has turned up the
heat and the whores have no integrity....

and keep our blood pressure down. Cause if they're working so
hard at it,,,,,w must be winning - for now - but our efforts
can never let down...

I love that Teddy Kennedy and his suggestion of another Boston Tea
Party...and yes, it may come to that....this election will tell.

[Wind Dancer]

127. Pallas, thanks for the words of encouragement!

I'm having a bad day and need to just chill out.

[Wind Dancer]

123. I started a thread but it dropped like a lead balloon!

:shrug:

[Wind Dancer]

108. Good morning everyone!

I remember watching Deborah Norville last month when Tom Clancy and Anthony Zinni were guests. She asked them to describe certain cabinet members with one word. She asked Clancy's impression of Paul Wolfowitz and he responded with "Is he working on our side"?

That actually sent chills down my spine.

(will go catch up now)

:hi:

[Pallas180]

117. G'Morning H20 - still lots of letters for us to be sending - and

every time a new article appears, it becomes more imperative
to send The Waterman Paper to the author...whether the article
is on the correct side or not...so they know we're out here
and know which side is up.....each letter represents 100 or
1000 people. (forget which it is - but Calimary must know)

[calimary]

128. It depends on how big a pool you're swimming in.

I can only use my own experience as a guide. When I worked at small radio stations, like one little rocker in Long Beach, CA, one letter or one phone call usually represented at least ten. Maybe more. When I moved up to larger stations, like the O&O's in L.A., or a single station whose signal reached from Santa Barbara to south of the Mexican border (100 THOUSAND WATTS from Mount Wilson - SHEESH!) that pool grew exponentially. ONE person commenting to a KLOS or a KRTH (the big ones) might represent a couple of thousand people. If you extrapolate out to a national venue like a radio, tv, or cable network, then you're talking tens, maybe hundreds of thousands. It just depends on the "universe" in which you're operating.

[H2O Man]

135. Another attack on Wilson.....

came out this after noon, on the "opinion journal," c/o the WSJ. A James Taranto piece attacks democrats in general, and Wilson specifically.

See: http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005415

[Me.]

137. About 2 Weeks Ago I Wrote The WSJ

And used H20's original summation for the bones of the letter. I noted that it was a response to a previous article Taranto had written about the Ambassador. Obviously they could care less about the truth and are pursuing a pre-planned agenda.

[H2O Man]

138. The important thing is that you responded.

Sometimes we all can look at the political picture, and see how huge it is, and forget how important it is to do things like writing letters to newspapers and journals. We are all human, and so it is certainly more fun to write to a source that responds in a positive manner. But in many, many ways, it is more important to write to somewhere like the WSJ. I think that your writing to them sets an example for many of us, especially myself. Thank you.

[H2O Man]

143. more anti-Wilson crap-oganda

(1)a silly piece by Vince Fiore at:

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/vfiore/2004/vf_0722.shtml

reply to: [email protected]


(2)UPI Senior Political Analcyst Peter Ruff; 7-28: "The DNC release also accuses the Republicans of outing the wife of largely discredited former US Ambassador and Bush critic Joseph Wilson ...."

see: http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040728-5990r

reply to: [email protected]

[H2O Man]

110. Regarding Henry Waxman (D-CA)

Berger Investigation Questioned

WASHINGTON - July 27 - Today Rep. Waxman sent a letter to Chairman Davis regarding his refusal to pursue allegations of wrongdoing by the Bush Administration and his recent decision to investigate allegations of wrongdoing by former Clinton National Security Advisor "Sandy" Berger.

In the letter, Rep. Waxman raises concerns that the Committee is in danger of setting a double-standard: one for investigations of Republicans and a different one for investigations of Democrats. The letter follows:

The Honorable Tom Davis, Chairman

Committee on Government Reform

U.S. House of Representatives

Washington, DC 20515

Dear Mr. Chairman:

There is a stark contrast between your refusal to pursue allegations of wrongdoing by Bush Administration officials and your recent decision to investigate allegations of wrongdoing by former Clinton National Security Advisor Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger. I am writing to urge evenhandedness in your investigative decisions.

Under your predecessor, our Committee was widely condemned for abusing its investigative powers. When you became Chairman of the Committee in 2003, you promised a new approach, and in many respects, you have kept that commitment. Unfortunately, it now appears that the Committee is poised to repeat some of the abuses of the Burton years.

Chairman Burton's Precedents

The six-year chairmanship of Dan Burton brought widespread disrepute upon our Committee. Norman Ornstein of the American Enterprise Institute wrote that the Committee's investigation of the Clinton Administration would be "remembered as a case study in how not to do a congressional investigation and as a prime example of investigation as farce ." According to the New York Times, the Committee's efforts were a "House investigation travesty" and a "parody of a reputable investigation." The Washington Post called Mr. Burton's investigation "its own cartoon, a joke and a deserved embarrassment."

From 1997 to 2000, no allegation involving the Clinton Administration was too small for the Committee to investigate. Chairman Burton issued over 1,000 unilateral subpoenas to investigate whether the White House misused its holiday card list, whether President Clinton endorsed the candidacy of a foreign leader in exchange for political contributions, whether White House video tapes or e-mail databases were doctored to remove incriminating information, and whether the President or the Vice President used official resources for fundraising, among a wide range of other issues. The Republican leadership in Congress supported and funded these efforts.

After the election of President Bush and Vice President Cheney, the Committee completely reversed course. In 2001 and 2002, the Committee refused to investigate matters that would have triggered exhaustive investigations had they occurred during the Clinton years. For example, the Committee did not examine the allegations that the Vice President's energy task force granted special access to Enron and other political contributors; that President Bush's top political advisor, Karl Rove, violated conflict of interest standards by meeting with executives of companies in which he owned stock; or that Vice President Cheney improperly used his taxpayer-funded residence for political fundraising.

Indeed, with one exception, Chairman Burton did not even respond to my written inquiries regarding whether the Committee would be investigating these and other similar matters.

Recent Precedents

Since January 2003, the Bush Administration has also been shielded from scrutiny under your chairmanship. Our Committee is the principal investigative committee in the House. Yet despite this responsibility, we have failed to examine numerous instances of serious misconduct. For example:

" The Committee has held no hearings on the hundreds of misleading statements made by President Bush and his top advisors about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and ties to al Qaeda;

" The Committee has held no hearings on the prison abuses at Abu Ghraib or at other facilities in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay;

" The Committee has held no hearings on who leaked the identity of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame or whether the leak was retribution directed at her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson;

" The Committee has held no hearings on the evidence that the Bush Administration misled Congress about the costs of the Medicare bill and withheld important cost estimates prepared by the Office of the Actuary in the Department of Health and Human Services;

" The Committee has held no hearings on the mounting evidence that Bush Administration officials have politicized science by stacking scientific advisory committees, distorting and suppressing scientific information, and interfering with scientific research;

" The Committee has held no hearings on the mounting evidence that regulated industries have wielded inappropriate influence in the development of environmental regulations, including writing passages of agency proposals and presentations, regarding mercury air pollution, formaldehyde, industrial towels, and farm pollution; and

" The Committee has held no hearings on the mounting evidence of misconduct by Attorney General John Ashcroft, such as his false accusations regarding former Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick and his role in violations of campaign finance laws.

The most significant investigation conducted by the Committee has been the series of hearings into contracting abuses in Iraq, which have helped uncover widespread overcharging and systemic accounting problems. Yet even in this area, you have protected White House officials from scrutiny. At a Committee hearing on March 11, eight generals and other Administration witnesses testified that there were no communications between the Defense Department and the Vice President's office about the sole-source contracts secretly awarded to Halliburton. But when new evidence showed that these assertions were false - and that the Vice President's office had, in fact, been briefed at senior levels prior to the award of the contracts - you refused to investigate the extent of the Vice President's involvement.

In many instances, you have justified your refusal to investigate on the grounds that the matter in question was already being examined by executive branch agencies. You told me that the reason the Committee would not investigate the outing of Ms. Plame was that there was an ongoing Justice Department probe. You also justified the Committee's failure to investigate the withholding of the Medicare cost estimates on the grounds that this matter "is under investigation by the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services."

Indeed, this principle was invoked twice in the last week alone to block minority requests for information. At the Iraq contracting hearing on July 22, Halliburton witnesses were asked repeatedly by Reps. Dutch Ruppersberger and Stephen Lynch about evidence that company employees took kickbacks to steer subcontracts to a Kuwaiti company. You permitted the witnesses to refuse to answer the question based on their assertion that "here is an ongoing Justice Department investigation."

Similarly, your staff rejected my request that we write a joint letter to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld about the allegations that a political appointee, John A. Shaw, Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for International Technology Security, steered Iraq contracts to friends and business associates. Your staff informed the minority that "the Chairman thinks that since the matter is currently the subject of an FBI investigation that, at least for now, we will not join on your request."

The Berger Decision

Against this backdrop, your decision to investigate the allegations that Mr. Berger took classified information from the National Archives is hard to understand. Mr. Berger's actions are currently being investigated by the Justice Department. Under the standards you have articulated, there should be no Committee inquiry while the Justice Department investigation is pending. Without question, the risks of interfering in a pending criminal investigation apply just as much to Mr. Berger's situation as they do to the Valerie Plame matter or the Halliburton kickbacks.

Moreover, in contrast to the matters the Committee has refused to investigate, Mr. Berger's actions do not involve the misuse of classified information to lead our nation into war, the torture or abuse of foreign nationals, the withholding of information from Congress, or the public disclosure of sensitive national security secrets such as the identity of a covert CIA agent.

Last week, the September 11 Commission released its long-awaited report on terrorism in the United States. The Commission called for a major restructuring of the intelligence-gathering agencies, a matter that falls within our Committee's jurisdiction. Yet the press release you issued called for an investigation into Mr. Berger - not Committee action on the Commission's recommendations. These are not the priorities of the American public.

Unfortunately, Mr. Berger's case is not the only recent decision that calls into question your investigative priorities. Two weeks ago, you issued a subpoena to investigate whether the United Nations mismanaged Iraq's Oil for Food program, but refused my request to subpoena documents that would show whether the United States mismanaged the Development Fund for Iraq (DFI), the successor of the Oil for Food program. I am not opposed to an investigation of the United Nations and the Oil for Food program, but I do not see how we can justify investigating the United Nations if we refuse to investigate the growing evidence that our own government cannot account for how it handled billions in Iraqi oil proceeds. Particularly in light of current world opinion, we should be demonstrating our commitment to fairness and impartiality at every opportunity.

The Way Forward

The Committee is in danger of setting a double-standard: one for investigations of Republicans and a different one for investigations of Democrats. When Republicans are involved, the principle seems to be that we can never inquire into a matter that the Justice Department or any other agency is investigating. But when Democrats are involved, the principle seems to be the more investigations the better. Obviously, this is not a sustainable position.

There are two options for maintaining credibility in the Committee's investigative work: (1) open investigations into the examples of Bush Administration wrongdoing cited in this letter or (2) drop the investigation into the Berger matter. The other option - allowing partisan considerations to dictate the Committee's investigative agenda - is the path the Committee took under your predecessor. It led the Committee into well-deserved opprobrium, and it will do so again.

If you decide to pursue Mr. Berger, moreover, the inquiry should not be limited to Mr. Berger's actions alone. Recent news accounts have indicated that White House officials were briefed about the FBI's investigation of Mr. Berger, and there have been allegations that the officials leaked the investigation to distract attention from the report of the September 11 Commission. Indeed, after first denying any White House knowledge, then asserting "a few individuals" in the White House Counsel's office had been informed of the probe, a White House spokesman finally was forced to acknowledge that senior officials beyond the White House Counsel's office were tipped off about the investigation months ago.

The decision by the Justice Department to brief the White House - and the possibility that the White House may have leaked news of the investigation - are serious matters. If you are determined to examine Mr. Berger's conduct, these issues cannot be ignored.

Conclusion

Mr. Chairman, we have had a constructive relationship during your tenure as head of the Committee. As you know, I have expressed my appreciation on numerous occasions for the approach you have brought to the Committee and for your commitment to run the Committee in a bipartisan fashion.

That is why I feel so strongly about this matter and have written this letter. Having lived through the previous six years, I know the damage that partisan investigations can do to the Committee. I hope we do not go down that road again.

Sincerely,


Henry A. Waxman

Ranking Minority Member

[Pallas180]

120. From Waxman Letter - this is news & deserves a google:

John A. Shaw


"Similarly, your staff rejected my request that we write a joint letter to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld about the
allegations that a political appointee, John A. Shaw, Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for International Technology Security, steered Iraq contracts to friends and business associates.
Your staff informed the minority that "the Chairman thinks that since the matter is currently the subject of an FBI investigation that, at least for now, we will not join on your request."

[shraby]

178. Official said to steer Iraq work to friends (Shaw)

(snip)
The FBI is also looking into allegations, first reported by the Los Angeles Times, that Shaw tried to steer a contract to create an emergency phone network for Iraq's security forces to a company whose board of directors included a friend and one of Shaw's employees.

Shaw, who held top positions in the Reagan and first Bush administrations, declined to comment for this article. In previous interviews, he has denied having any financial links to the companies involved or receiving any promises of employment.

Shaw justified his investigations under an agreement with the Pentagon inspector general, Joseph E. Schmitz. The agreement, reached in August, created a temporary office led by Shaw called the International Armament and Technology Trade Directorate. Its mission was to cooperate with the inspector general on issues related to the transfer of sensitive U.S. technologies or arms to foreign countries.

Shaw frequently cited the pact in his dealings with reporters and military officials, telling them it allowed him to "wear an IG hat" to conduct investigations. In a recent letter to the inspector general, he said the deal gave him "broad investigatory authority."

(more)

<http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:CM10Y1_XMy0J:www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.shaw08jul08,0,1703005.story%3Fcoll%3Dbal-nationworld-headlines+john+shaw+international+technology+security&hl=en>

Another from the Reagan administration getting in trouble

[shraby]

180. Hard-Edged Bush Official Helps Craft Foreign Policy (John Bolton)

by John Shaw (note the writer)

John Bolton recalled that he was once introduced as America’s undersecretary of state for the “axis of evil.” He said the introduction, though not technically accurate, was understandable given his work on policies to confront the regimes of Iraq, Iran, North Korea and other nations the United States has accused of supporting terrorism and exporting deadly weapons.

Bolton, whose real title is undersecretary of state for arms control and international security, is a forceful advocate for some of the Bush administration’s most assertive and controversial policies. Straightforward, serious and precise, Bolton outlines the administration’s agenda in clear, often stark terms. He does not engage in indirection, use euphemisms or offer apologies.

Praised by conservatives for his clarity and resolve, Bolton has also been sharply criticized by others for helping to craft and defend a foreign policy that many view as arrogant and imperious.

In an interview at his State Department office, Bolton said he views government service as an opportunity to accomplish things, not to mark time, shuffle papers or make new friends. He views diplomacy as a tool to accomplish national goals, not an end in itself, and he said he is interested in concrete results, not soaring rhetoric.

(more)

<http://www.washdiplomat.com/03-08/a1_03_08.html>

Another Reagan man

[shraby]

182. More on Bolton

(snip)

Past Scandals: As a young lawyer Bolton in 1978 Bolton helped Sen. Helms' National Congressional Club form Jefferson Marketing "as a vehicle to supply candidates with such services as advertising and direct mail without having to worry about the federal laws preventing PACs, like the Congressional Club, from contributing more than $5,000 per election to any one candidate's campaign committee" (Legal Times). He later defended the club against charges from the FEC that led to a $10,000 fine in 1986. As a reward for his service Sen. Helms "helped the career of John Bolton" by supporting him for his Department of Justice and State positions (Legal Times).

At the Justice Department, Bolton acted as the Department's "no man" refusing to provide congressional committees documents on Supreme Court nominees William Renquist, Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy. He also refused to provide information, including his personal notes regarding the Iran-Contra scandal, and aided congressional Republicans who attempted to stop investigations of Contra drug smuggling.

After leaving the State Department under the first Bush Administration, Bolton headed the National Policy Forum which "reportedly pursued money from overseas" for the RNC (Los Angeles Times). The NPF defaulted on a $1.3 billion loan guaranteed by Hong Kong businessman Ambrous Young, who's lawyer claimed his willingness to absorb the debt was "contingent upon Mr. Young getting something in return," namely "business opportunities." The Taiwanese government "served as an intermediary for a $25,000 contribution" to the NPF(Washington Post). At his confirmation hearing Bolton acknowledged that he had received $30,000 from the Taiwanese government for writing a series of papers.

At his confirmation hearing Bolton defended his ability to separate his personal beliefs from his professional duties: "Of all the different jobs I've had in government, I've never had any allegations that I wasn't following the policies that were set." Actually, Bolton ignored administration policy while in the Reagan Justice Department when he held an unauthorized press conference lashing out at special prosecutors. His comments drew sharp criticism from the White House when spokesman Marlin Fitzwater called Bolton "intemperate and contentious."

<http://www.clw.org/bush/opposebolton.html>

[shraby]

183. Bolton once again..this guy is dangerous (Iran/contra man)

John Bolton is Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security in the Bush administration. He supported the Nicaraguan contras, supported normalizing ties with Taiwan regardless of its effect on China-U.S. relations, advocates "regime change" rather than negotiation with North Korea, led the effort within the State Department to "unsign" the U.S. from the Rome Statute, sabotaged a 2001 UN bio-weapons conference in Geneva, and publicly accused Cuba of having an offensive biological warfare program -- a charge which was contradicted by intelligence officials and the former head of the U.S. Southern Command.

(more)

<http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-conservatism/bolton.html>

More..from
<http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=John_Bolton>

Also an attorney, Bolton was an associate at the Washington office of Covington & Burling, where he returned as a member of the firm from 1983-1985. From 1993-1999, Bolton was a partner in the law firm of Lerner, Reed, Bolton & McManus. Bolton received both his undergraduate and law degrees from Yale University

Covington & Burling (here is one of their services)
One of the leading Life Sciences law firms worldwide, we aim to help biotech companies to achieve value-added objectives in their transactions and to find constuctive solutions to legal and regulatory problems.

Here is an interesting statement attributed to him here:
<http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/bolton/bolton.php>

At a 1994 panel discussion sponsored by the World Federalist Association, Bolton claimed, "There's no such thing as the United Nations," saying that ''If the U.N. secretary building in New York lost 10 stories, it wouldn't make a bit of difference"

[Pallas180]

198. Schraby- It's amazing a Bolton could be in govt. he appears

to be anti-government, attempting to destroy good works of the past.

The question is: how do these kind of people get confirmed by Congress to hold posts in government?

Orrin Hatch anyone? what a weasel.

[shraby]

181. More on Shaw from a forum

WASHINGTON—The Pentagon has asked Coalition Provisional Authority head L. Paul Bremer to revoke the three regional mobile-phone licenses in Iraq, according to documents and e-mails obtained today by RCR Wireless News.
The Department of Defense said action is necessary in light of an investigation that found possible illegal activity and fraud in connection with the three wireless operators and their alleged ties to a former business associate of toppled Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

“Wholly aside from allegations of criminal wrongdoing, this memorandum is to inform you that my investigation also uncovered a fraud on the Ministry of Communications by Orascom, Atheer and AsiaCell,” said John Shaw, DoD’s undersecretary for international technology security, in a June 14 correspondence to Bremer.

Shaw said the matter has been referred to the FBI for further action.


(more)

<http://www.cellular-news.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=5215>

(Wasn't this the same area Berg (beheaded) was working on..mobile phone towers)

[Pallas180]

200. Schraby-hmm Emergency Phone Network in Iraq? Trireme of

Perle and kissinger couldn't be involved, now could it?

Cause I remember article about Perle trying to get cell phone business in Iraq.

And then of course, did you know that Nextel is partially owned
by Carlyle?

If anybody has Nextel, it might be an idea to consider switching.

Always good to hit them in the pocketbook.

Money is power and to stop the flow of money into their cash registers has to hurt.

And sorry, Guys, but that goes for Coor beer too.
Big supporters of the takeover of this government and dimson
1 and 2.

[RebelYell]

111. I posted this in GD, no replies - I think it's important

Bush-Cheney Campaign Headquarters:
What They Don't Want You To Know

by
Wayne Madsen

JULY 27, 2004: 1000 PDT (FTW) -- Amid a towering cluster of office buildings in northern Virginia stands a 10-story red brick and glass edifice. One of many new office buildings rising along Arlington County's growing Rosslyn-Ballston business corridor, the structure nestled at the end of a cul-de-sac at 2107 Wilson Boulevard has a special mission this year: to ensure that the Bush-Cheney administration is guaranteed another term in office.

~~~~~~~~

Yet the Bush-Cheney operation, with all of its security cameras and guards, does not fully appreciate the importance of operational security. While recently walking past the building on a well-traveled pedestrian sidewalk that leads to the Court House Metro station, I noticed that on the first floor, in clear view of anyone who wanted to look, were two 25-inch plasma computer screens. Both had color-coded maps of the United States. Stopping to marvel at the data being represented on the screens, I realized that one of the screens represented GOP tracking polls. In many cases, such internal political party polls - which are always highly classified - represent truer numbers than what is being reported by the national media organizations.

Quickly scanning the map, I saw that the GOP numbers are a matter of serious concern. Using blue for its safe states (possibly the GOP feels that using red is too socialistic for its tastes), the Bush campaign sees itself in a commanding position in most of the wheat belt Prairie states, the upper Rockies, and the Bible belt South. Using yellow for toss-up states, the GOP pollsters seem particularly concerned about Louisiana, Arizona, Nevada, Florida, Arkansas, Colorado, and North Carolina. Solid red states (in this case they are Kerry states) include the same states Al Gore won in 2000 with the addition of Ohio, West Virginia, and New Hampshire. If that is how the GOP is reading the political tea leaves, it is very bad news for Bush-Cheney.

~~~~~~~~

The Associated Press is reporting that its analysis of statewide polling shows Bush in the lead for electoral votes. If the computer screen at Bush-Cheney 04 headquarters is any indication, the AP is way off the mark. One can only wonder how many other "public" polls are similarly skewed.

~~~~~~~~

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/072704_bush_headquarters.shtml

[Wind Dancer]

113. Geeeez!

From the same article:

"Several things stand out as striking. A recent suspicious package scare at John Kerry's national headquarters put that office suite front and center in the news. Suite 700 at 901 15th Street, NW, Washington was evacuated and searched by Federal agents and local police. Bush-Cheney headquarters, on the other hand, opts to hide behind a post office box in Arlington - Box 10648 located at the small local post office a few doors down the street on Wilson Boulevard."


The secrecy in this government is unprecedented. (John Dean, Worse Than Watergate) My paranoia makes me wonder if the Kerry's headquarters have been "bugged".

[Pallas180]

125. MUST READ FROM CALIMARY:

calimary (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-29-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #46

118. Henry Waxman is a Marvelous Human Being. He's been the main


beacon of light through all this, and the main force behind WHATEVER efforts there have been, in the House of Reps, to hold these bastards accountable for - well, for ANYTHING. He's spent a LOT of time focusing on the many misdeeds and sneaky doings of dick cheney. His staff is VERY well-informed and up-to-speed, and VERY receptive to ideas, suggestions, tips on websites or online articles to check out, and, unlike the staffers at more conservative offices, they don't laugh and scoff when you try to bring something to their attention.

I know this because I'm a constituent. I have called his office probably a couple of thousand times by now. They're all of like mind with him, and therefore also, with me. They will give you an open ear, an open mind, and a fair hearing if you call them with some of this.

You guys know what to do. The usual polite, respectful call, don't come off as some crazy, just a concerned voter.

Those of you here in California can say that while you may not necessarily live in his district, you DO care, deeply, about what our California delegation in Congress is up to, and you appreciate his strong, courageous, and unrelenting leadership in trying to hold our government accountable.

If you live outside California, you can appeal to him by saying either that 1) you've already contacted your own rep about this and demanded that he/she give Waxman support; or 2) you've already contacted your rep and have gotten nowhere, so you've been FORCED to reach out, much farther away, for help.

By the way, on that second point, MANY DUers here have posted, repeatedly, about less-than-desirable experiences contacting reluctant or pig-headed representatives who accept everything bush says as thought it were engraved into the tablets of Moses. NEVER MIND! How's that again? NEVER MIND!!!!! I mean it. Even if you have a republi-CON representative, YOU STILL NEED TO CALL. YOU STILL NEED TO CALL. They still need to know that YOU want this. And who are YOU, to begin with? You are a loyal, patriotic American, a voter, and a taxpayer whose taxes fund YOUR REPRESENTATIVE'S SALARY and that of everyone on their staff, and THEY WORK FOR YOU! THEY ARE YOUR EMPLOYEES. Since YOU are among their constituency, they ignore your interests at their peril, because they also have to answer to YOU on election day, whether they like it or not. They NEED to know that their constituents have OTHER directives for them. It is good, and fitting, and COMPLETELY RED-WHITE-AND-BLUE AMERICAN to remind them of this, because, especially in the circles of power where the republi-CONS all are (for now), they tend to lose sight of that. Particularly if they're used to basking in the glory of their sun-god from Crawford.

CALL THEM ANYWAY. Remember this: what made Richard Nixon finally throw in the towel and resign? People of HIS OWN PARTY had finally had enough, probably because they'd caught nonstop hell about him and their "loyalty" to him from their constituents, and told him it was time to give it up because he was a lost cause. It was OTHER REPUBLI-CONS who finally did it. The Democrats had been onboard long before this. It took the republi-CONS to be the final lever that pushed him out of the White House. Eventually, they couldn't help it. They HAD TO CAVE TO PUBLIC OPINION. THAT'S what we have to do here. Because it CAN happen again.

www.congress.org - is the all time best directory on the net for ANY rep or senator. They're away from Washington right now because they're on a break. But it's been a contentious break, with LOTS of unfinished business they've left behind, and they are WELL AWARE OF THAT, already. Believe me, they won't be far from their offices, and they won't have turned off their cell phones. So it is STILL fair and reasonable and wise to write, OR call (TOLL FREE, see my sig line).

All the specific directory stuff, in the VERY MOST RECENT UPDATES, can be found in the Activism/Events forum here, if you need any of that. But you have to do it. You have to push aside the doubts and fears and dreads that your knuckle-dragger congressperson won't even pay attention to you, and just turn back around and continue the bush-worship. That will CERTAINLY happen if you don't speak up. If you DO speak up, however, you're apt to find that you are not the only one. They may ignore a single complaint. But if they start getting dozens of them, or better yet hundreds (or more), they will be FORCED to start taking notice. That's a big block of potential voters they can't afford to piss off, even in districts that they may still consider safe.

NOTHING'S safe anymore. EVERYTHING is fair game. And EVERY ONE OF US has to jump in there and play it.


Web Site: www.house.gov/waxman
E-mail: Contact Via 'Write Your Rep.'

Washington Office:
2204 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-0530
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Main District Office:
8436 W. 3rd St., #600
Los Angeles, CA 90048
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[Pallas180]

131. GEORGE W. BUSH CAN BRAG ABOUT THIS:

Just so you know: I attacked and took over 2 countries.

I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.

I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history (not
easy!).

I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on
vacation by any president in US history (tough to beat my dad's, but I did).

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.

I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history.

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.

I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other president in US history.

I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a 12-month period.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president, since the advent of TV.

I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other US president in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

I cut health care benefits for war veterans.

I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.)

I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy.

I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.

I am the first president in US history to order a US attack AND military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the vast majority of the international community.

I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States, called the "Bureau of Homeland Security"(only one letter away from BS).

I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any other president in US history (Ronnie was tough to beat, but I did it!!).

I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.

I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.

I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of
congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant. I withdrew from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoner! s of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.

I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US
history.

I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied, saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.

I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

I set the all-time record for the number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling their huge investments in corporations bidding for gov't contracts.

I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US! history.

I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES: I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during time of war.

I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug use. (wink,wink)

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

With Compassionate Conservatism

The White House,


Note: this information should be useful to voters in the 2004 election.

circulate to as many citizens you think would be helped to be reminded about this record

[Wind Dancer]

133. Pallas, excellent summary.

Will print and distribute, thanks for posting this.

[Pallas180]

170. Guys, I'm not the author, just the passer onner. Glad you all

like it. purty durn good isn't it!

[H2O Man]

141. Great list!

It probably won't be part of his speech at the republican convention, but it's what a lot of us will be thinking of when he speaks.

[robertpaulsen]

149. Big ol' Kick!

I'll try to tune in here Friday night, but I'll definitely be back Sunday. I've gone through all the threads saving info and outlining what I think will make a devastating paper. Hopefully, I'll have a rough draft of AMERICAN JUDAS ready on Monday. No promises, but I'll try.

Take care and keep searching for the truth!

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[H2O Man]

150. Great!

There's no hurry. Do it at the pace you are most comfortable with.

[Pallas180]

158. Bravo. I think our concerns for the Constitution have made a big point!

at least John Kerry has heard us and those American s who
are very upset about what is happening to our Constituion
and civil liberties and rights.

Bravo.

[Pallas180]

162. Kerry-And I will appoint an Attorney General who WILL uphold the Constitu

tion of the United States".

[H2O Man]

164. It was a great speech!

I think it topped off a great convention.

[Pallas180]

168. H20 - Tucker on CNN with Larry King has been reading us -

he just said," well where was the mention of Halliburton and
The Trilateral Commission and all that stuff"....

I don't think anyone else is talking about the Trilateral but us ---

don;t you find that interesting?

My my -

[Pallas180]

171. GUYS - answer poll now..heavily weighted for Bush

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CNBCTV/Promos/P90739.asp?ShowResults=1&HasVotedTwice=#Vote

[Pallas180]

176. RFK Jr. on Ralph Nader (Salon)

About Ralph Nader-

"It's like talking to an insane person, he's just not susceptible to reason. He's demonstrably made it worse in this country by giving us George W. Bush and he's trying to do it again. His supporters are seduced by his critique of the political system, which is basically correct. It's true that the Republican Party is about 90 percent corrupt and the Democrats are about 50 or 60 percent. But he's wrong that he's the solution. The solution is campaign finance reform and resurrection of the fairness doctrine so the public can take back control of the media. And those solutions can only come from within the Democratic Party."

[H2O Man]

188. RFK Jr's new book

"Crimes Against Nature" is a wonderul indictment of the bush administration. As I noted on the last thread, a few of the individuals on here may dislike it, because Robert levels some charges against VP cheney that men like Richard Clarke make, which are not "proven" to their extremely high level of satisfaction. But it's a great book, because it tells the truth about the criminal behaviors of this administration in regard to the environment.

[Pallas180]

191. One of the posters who lives in Austin told me that when dimson

was through as governor there, there were days the air was
so dirty they had to use their windshield wipers to see...

essentially everything he has done to the country he first did
in Texas, including raiding the treasury and leaving them bankrupt.

[Pallas180]

192. Dimson on FAux news NOW in Missouri, so maybe we can access

if what Capitol Hill Blue's report has some merit.

[Pallas180]

197. Well, he hasn't forgotten how to attack Kerry.

.

[Pallas180]

253. He was a bit subdued for him, but two red cheeks?? what's

with the red cheeks?

Ruben ruben I been thinkin', what the hell you
been drinkin? (High School song)

could he be drinking again?

[Me.]

293. Friends who speak from Experience

Think so, but their theory is that it's beer, which some will try to get away with because it's not "hard liquor". Beer & Pretzels...

[linazelle]

177. kick

[Pallas180]

179. JOHN KERRY'S SPEECH

We are here tonight because we love our country.

We are proud of what America is and what it can become.

My fellow Americans: we are here tonight united in one simple purpose: to make America stronger at home and respected in the world.

A great American novelist wrote that you can't go home again. He could not have imagined this evening. Tonight, I am home. Home where my public life began and those who made it possible live. Home where our nation's history was written in blood, idealism, and hope. Home where my parents showed me the values of family, faith, and country.

Thank you, all of you, for a welcome home I will never forget.

I wish my parents could share this moment. They went to their rest in the last few years, but their example, their inspiration, their gift of open eyes, open mind, and endless world are bigger and more lasting than any words.

I was born in Colorado, in Fitzsimmons Army Hospital, when my dad was a pilot in World War II. Now, I'm not one to read into things, but guess which wing of the hospital the maternity ward was in? I'm not making this up. I was born in the West Wing!

My mother was the rock of our family as so many mothers are. She stayed up late to help me do my homework. She sat by my bed when I was sick, and she answered the questions of a child who, like all children, found the world full of wonders and mysteries.

She was my den mother when I was a Cub Scout and she was so proud of her fifty year pin as a Girl Scout leader. She gave me her passion for the environment. She taught me to see trees as the cathedrals of nature. And by the power of her example, she showed me that we can and must finish the march toward full equality for all women in our country.

My dad did the things that a boy remembers. He gave me my first model airplane, my first baseball mitt and my first bicycle. He also taught me that we are here for something bigger than ourselves; he lived out the responsibilities and sacrifices of the greatest generation to whom we owe so much.

When I was a young man, he was in the State Department, stationed in Berlin when it and the world were divided between democracy and communism. I have unforgettable memories of being a kid mesmerized by the British, French, and American troops, each of them guarding their own part of the city, and Russians standing guard on the stark line separating East from West. On one occasion, I rode my bike into Soviet East Berlin. And when I proudly told my dad, he promptly grounded me.

But what I learned has stayed with me for a lifetime. I saw how different life was on different sides of the same city. I saw the fear in the eyes of people who were not free. I saw the gratitude of people toward the United States for all that we had done. I felt goose bumps as I got off a military train and heard the Army band strike up "Stars and Stripes Forever." I learned what it meant to be America at our best. I learned the pride of our freedom. And I am determined now to restore that pride to all who look to America.

Mine were greatest generation parents. And as I thank them, we all join together to thank that whole generation for making America strong, for winning World War II, winning the Cold War, and for the great gift of service which brought America fifty years of peace and prosperity.

My parents inspired me to serve, and when I was a junior in high school, John Kennedy called my generation to service. It was the beginning of a great journey - a time to march for civil rights, for voting rights, for the environment, for women, and for peace. We believed we could change the world. And you know what? We did.

But we're not finished. The journey isn't complete. The march isn't over. The promise isn't perfected. Tonight, we're setting out again. And together, we're going to write the next great chapter of America's story.

We have it in our power to change the world again. But only if we're true to our ideals - and that starts by telling the truth to the American people. That is my first pledge to you tonight. As President, I will restore trust and credibility to the White House.

I ask you to judge me by my record: As a young prosecutor, I fought for victim's rights and made prosecuting violence against women a priority. When I came to the Senate, I broke with many in my own party to vote for a balanced budget, because I thought it was the right thing to do. I fought to put a 100,000 cops on the street.

And then I reached across the aisle to work with John McCain, to find the truth about our POW's and missing in action, and to finally make peace with Vietnam.

I will be a commander in chief who will never mislead us into war. I will have a Vice President who will not conduct secret meetings with polluters to rewrite our environmental laws. I will have a Secretary of Defense who will listen to the best advice of our military leaders. And I will appoint an Attorney General who actually upholds the Constitution of the United States.

My fellow Americans, this is the most important election of our lifetime. The stakes are high. We are a nation at war - a global war on terror against an enemy unlike any we have ever known before. And here at home, wages are falling, health care costs are rising, and our great middle class is shrinking. People are working weekends; they're working two jobs, three jobs, and they're still not getting ahead.

We're told that outsourcing jobs is good for America. We're told that new jobs that pay $9,000 less than the jobs that have been lost is the best we can do. They say this is the best economy we've ever had. And they say that anyone who thinks otherwise is a pessimist. Well, here is our answer: There is nothing more pessimistic than saying America can't do better.

We can do better and we will. We're the optimists. For us, this is a country of the future. We're the can do people. And let's not forget what we did in the 1990s. We balanced the budget. We paid down the debt. We created 23 million new jobs. We lifted millions out of poverty and we lifted the standard of living for the middle class. We just need to believe in ourselves - and we can do it again.

So tonight, in the city where America's freedom began, only a few blocks from where the sons and daughters of liberty gave birth to our nation - here tonight, on behalf of a new birth of freedom - on behalf of the middle class who deserve a champion, and those struggling to join it who deserve a fair shot - for the brave men and women in uniform who risk their lives every day and the families who pray for their return - for all those who believe our best days are ahead of us - for all of you - with great faith in the American people, I accept your nomination for President of the United States.

I am proud that at my side will be a running mate whose life is the story of the American dream and who's worked every day to make that dream real for all Americans - Senator John Edwards of North Carolina. And his wonderful wife Elizabeth and their family. This son of a mill worker is ready to lead - and next January, Americans will be proud to have a fighter for the middle class to succeed Dick Cheney as Vice President of the United States.

And what can I say about Teresa? She has the strongest moral compass of anyone I know. She's down to earth, nurturing, courageous, wise and smart. She speaks her mind and she speaks the truth, and I love her for that, too. And that's why America will embrace her as the next First Lady of the United States.

For Teresa and me, no matter what the future holds or the past has given us, nothing will ever mean as much as our children. We love them not just for who they are and what they've become, but for being themselves, making us laugh, holding our feet to the fire, and never letting me get away with anything. Thank you, Andre, Alex, Chris, Vanessa, and John.

And in this journey, I am accompanied by an extraordinary band of brothers led by that American hero, a patriot named Max Cleland. Our band of brothers doesn't march together because of who we are as veterans, but because of what we learned as soldiers. We fought for this nation because we loved it and we came back with the deep belief that every day is extra. We may be a little older now, we may be a little grayer, but we still know how to fight for our country.

And standing with us in that fight are those who shared with me the long season of the primary campaign: Carol Moseley Braun, General Wesley Clark, Howard Dean, Dick Gephardt, Bob Graham, Dennis Kucinich, Joe Lieberman and Al Sharpton.

To all of you, I say thank you for teaching me and testing me - but mostly, we say thank you for standing up for our country and giving us the unity to move America forward.

My fellow Americans, the world tonight is very different from the world of four years ago. But I believe the American people are more than equal to the challenge.

Remember the hours after September 11th, when we came together as one to answer the attack against our homeland. We drew strength when our firefighters ran up the stairs and risked their lives, so that others might live. When rescuers rushed into smoke and fire at the Pentagon. When the men and women of Flight 93 sacrificed themselves to save our nation's Capitol. When flags were hanging from front porches all across America, and strangers became friends. It was the worst day we have ever seen, but it brought out the best in all of us.

I am proud that after September 11th all our people rallied to President Bush's call for unity to meet the danger. There were no Democrats. There were no Republicans. There were only Americans. How we wish it had stayed that way.

Now I know there are those who criticize me for seeing complexities - and I do - because some issues just aren't all that simple. Saying there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq doesn't make it so. Saying we can fight a war on the cheap doesn't make it so. And proclaiming mission accomplished certainly doesn't make it so.

As President, I will ask hard questions and demand hard evidence. I will immediately reform the intelligence system - so policy is guided by facts, and facts are never distorted by politics. And as President, I will bring back this nation's time-honored tradition: the United States of America never goes to war because we want to, we only go to war because we have to.

I know what kids go through when they are carrying an M-16 in a dangerous place and they can't tell friend from foe. I know what they go through when they're out on patrol at night and they don't know what's coming around the next bend. I know what it's like to write letters home telling your family that everything's all right when you're not sure that's true.

As President, I will wage this war with the lessons I learned in war. Before you go to battle, you have to be able to look a parent in the eye and truthfully say: "I tried everything possible to avoid sending your son or daughter into harm's way. But we had no choice. We had to protect the American people, fundamental American values from a threat that was real and imminent." So lesson one, this is the only justification for going to war.

And on my first day in office, I will send a message to every man and woman in our armed forces: You will never be asked to fight a war without a plan to win the peace.

I know what we have to do in Iraq. We need a President who has the credibility to bring our allies to our side and share the burden, reduce the cost to American taxpayers, and reduce the risk to American soldiers. That's the right way to get the job done and bring our troops home.

Here is the reality: that won't happen until we have a president who restores America's respect and leadership -- so we don't have to go it alone in the world.

And we need to rebuild our alliances, so we can get the terrorists before they get us.

I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as President. Let there be no mistake: I will never hesitate to use force when it is required. Any attack will be met with a swift and certain response. I will never give any nation or international institution a veto over our national security. And I will build a stronger American military.

We will add 40,000 active duty troops - not in Iraq, but to strengthen American forces that are now overstretched, overextended, and under pressure. We will double our special forces to conduct anti-terrorist operations. We will provide our troops with the newest weapons and technology to save their lives - and win the battle. And we will end the backdoor draft of National Guard and reservists.

To all who serve in our armed forces today, I say, help is on the way.

As President, I will fight a smarter, more effective war on terror. We will deploy every tool in our arsenal: our economic as well as our military might; our principles as well as our firepower.

In these dangerous days there is a right way and a wrong way to be strong. Strength is more than tough words. After decades of experience in national security, I know the reach of our power and I know the power of our ideals.

We need to make America once again a beacon in the world. We need to be looked up to and not just feared.

We need to lead a global effort against nuclear proliferation - to keep the most dangerous weapons in the world out of the most dangerous hands in the world.

We need a strong military and we need to lead strong alliances. And then, with confidence and determination, we will be able to tell the terrorists: You will lose and we will win. The future doesn't belong to fear; it belongs to freedom.

And the front lines of this battle are not just far away - they're right here on our shores, at our airports, and potentially in any town or city. Today, our national security begins with homeland security. The 9-11 Commission has given us a path to follow, endorsed by Democrats, Republicans, and the 9-11 families. As President, I will not evade or equivocate; I will immediately implement the recommendations of that commission. We shouldn't be letting ninety-five percent of container ships come into our ports without ever being physically inspected. We shouldn't be leaving our nuclear and chemical plants without enough protection. And we shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them down in the United States of America.

And tonight, we have an important message for those who question the patriotism of Americans who offer a better direction for our country. Before wrapping themselves in the flag and shutting their eyes and ears to the truth, they should remember what America is really all about. They should remember the great idea of freedom for which so many have given their lives. Our purpose now is to reclaim democracy itself. We are here to affirm that when Americans stand up and speak their minds and say America can do better, that is not a challenge to patriotism; it is the heart and soul of patriotism.

You see that flag up there. We call her Old Glory. The stars and stripes forever. I fought under that flag, as did so many of you here and all across our country. That flag flew from the gun turret right behind my head. It was shot through and through and tattered, but it never ceased to wave in the wind. It draped the caskets of men I served with and friends I grew up with. For us, that flag is the most powerful symbol of who we are and what we believe in. Our strength. Our diversity. Our love of country. All that makes America both great and good.

That flag doesn't belong to any president. It doesn't belong to any ideology and it doesn't belong to any political party. It belongs to all the American people.

My fellow citizens, elections are about choices. And choices are about values. In the end, it's not just policies and programs that matter; the president who sits at that desk must be guided by principle.

For four years, we've heard a lot of talk about values. But values spoken without actions taken are just slogans. Values are not just words. They're what we live by. They're about the causes we champion and the people we fight for. And it is time for those who talk about family values to start valuing families.

You don't value families by kicking kids out of after school programs and taking cops off our streets, so that Enron can get another tax break.

We believe in the family value of caring for our children and protecting the neighborhoods where they walk and play.

And that is the choice in this election.

You don't value families by denying real prescription drug coverage to seniors, so big drug companies can get another windfall.

We believe in the family value expressed in one of the oldest Commandments: "Honor thy father and thy mother." As President, I will not privatize Social Security. I will not cut benefits. And together, we will make sure that senior citizens never have to cut their pills in half because they can't afford life-saving medicine.

And that is the choice in this election.

You don't value families if you force them to take up a collection to buy body armor for a son or daughter in the service, if you deny veterans health care, or if you tell middle class families to wait for a tax cut, so that the wealthiest among us can get even more.

We believe in the value of doing what's right for everyone in the American family.

And that is the choice in this election.

We believe that what matters most is not narrow appeals masquerading as values, but the shared values that show the true face of America. Not narrow appeals that divide us, but shared values that unite us. Family and faith. Hard work and responsibility. Opportunity for all - so that every child, every parent, every worker has an equal shot at living up to their God-given potential.

What does it mean in America today when Dave McCune, a steel worker I met in Canton, Ohio, saw his job sent overseas and the equipment in his factory literally unbolted, crated up, and shipped thousands of miles away along with that job? What does it mean when workers I've met had to train their foreign replacements?

America can do better. So tonight we say: help is on the way.

What does it mean when Mary Ann Knowles, a woman with breast cancer I met in New Hampshire, had to keep working day after day right through her chemotherapy, no matter how sick she felt, because she was terrified of losing her family's health insurance.

America can do better. And help is on the way.

What does it mean when Deborah Kromins from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania works and saves all her life only to find out that her pension has disappeared into thin air - and the executive who looted it has bailed out on a golden parachute?

America can do better. And help is on the way.

What does it mean when twenty five percent of the children in Harlem have asthma because of air pollution?

America can do better. And help is on the way.

What does it mean when people are huddled in blankets in the cold, sleeping in Lafayette Park on the doorstep of the White House itself - and the number of families living in poverty has risen by three million in the last four years?

America can do better. And help is on the way.

And so we come here tonight to ask: Where is the conscience of our country?

I'll tell you where it is: it's in rural and small town America; it's in urban neighborhoods and suburban main streets; it's alive in the people I've met in every part of this land. It's bursting in the hearts of Americans who are determined to give our country back its values and its truth.

We value jobs that pay you more not less than you earned before. We value jobs where, when you put in a week's work, you can actually pay your bills, provide for your children, and lift up the quality of your life. We value an America where the middle class is not being squeezed, but doing better.

So here is our economic plan to build a stronger America:

First, new incentives to revitalize manufacturing.

Second, investment in technology and innovation that will create the good-paying jobs of the future.

Third, close the tax loopholes that reward companies for shipping our jobs overseas. Instead, we will reward companies that create and keep good paying jobs where they belong - in the good old U.S.A.

We value an America that exports products, not jobs - and we believe American workers should never have to subsidize the loss of their own job.

Next, we will trade and compete in the world. But our plan calls for a fair playing field - because if you give the American worker a fair playing field, there's nobody in the world the American worker can't compete against.

And we're going to return to fiscal responsibility because it is the foundation of our economic strength. Our plan will cut the deficit in half in four years by ending tax giveaways that are nothing more than corporate welfare - and will make government live by the rule that every family has to follow: pay as you go.

And let me tell you what we won't do: we won't raise taxes on the middle class. You've heard a lot of false charges about this in recent months. So let me say straight out what I will do as President: I will cut middle class taxes. I will reduce the tax burden on small business. And I will roll back the tax cuts for the wealthiest individuals who make over $200,000 a year, so we can invest in job creation, health care and education.

Our education plan for a stronger America sets high standards and demands accountability from parents, teachers, and schools. It provides for smaller class sizes and treats teachers like the professionals they are. And it gives a tax credit to families for each and every year of college.

When I was a prosecutor, I met young kids who were in trouble, abandoned by adults. And as President, I am determined that we stop being a nation content to spend $50,000 a year to keep a young person in prison for the rest of their life - when we could invest $10,000 to give them Head Start, Early Start, Smart Start, the best possible start in life.

And we value health care that's affordable and accessible for all Americans.

Since 2000, four million people have lost their health insurance. Millions more are struggling to afford it.

You know what's happening. Your premiums, your co-payments, your deductibles have all gone through the roof.

Our health care plan for a stronger America cracks down on the waste, greed, and abuse in our health care system and will save families up to $1,000 a year on their premiums. You'll get to pick your own doctor - and patients and doctors, not insurance company bureaucrats, will make medical decisions. Under our plan, Medicare will negotiate lower drug prices for seniors. And all Americans will be able to buy less expensive prescription drugs from countries like Canada.

The story of people struggling for health care is the story of so many Americans. But you know what, it's not the story of senators and members of Congress. Because we give ourselves great health care and you get the bill. Well, I'm here to say, your family's health care is just as important as any politician's in Washington, D.C.

And when I'm President, America will stop being the only advanced nation in the world which fails to understand that health care is not a privilege for the wealthy, the connected, and the elected - it is a right for all Americans.

We value an America that controls its own destiny because it's finally and forever independent of Mideast oil. What does it mean for our economy and our national security when we only have three percent of the world's oil reserves, yet we rely on foreign countries for fifty-three percent of what we consume?

I want an America that relies on its own ingenuity and innovation - not the Saudi royal family.

And our energy plan for a stronger America will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels and the cars of the future -- so that no young American in uniform will ever be held hostage to our dependence on oil from the Middle East.

I've told you about our plans for the economy, for education, for health care, for energy independence. I want you to know more about them. So now I'm going to say something that Franklin Roosevelt could never have said in his acceptance speech: go to johnkerry.com.

I want to address these next words directly to President George W. Bush: In the weeks ahead, let's be optimists, not just opponents. Let's build unity in the American family, not angry division. Let's honor this nation's diversity; let's respect one another; and let's never misuse for political purposes the most precious document in American history, the Constitution of the United States.

My friends, the high road may be harder, but it leads to a better place. And that's why Republicans and Democrats must make this election a contest of big ideas, not small-minded attacks. This is our time to reject the kind of politics calculated to divide race from race, group from group, region from region. Maybe some just see us divided into red states and blue states, but I see us as one America - red, white, and blue. And when I am President, the government I lead will enlist people of talent, Republicans as well as Democrats, to find the common ground - so that no one who has something to contribute will be left on the sidelines.

And let me say it plainly: in that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them. I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight: I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country.

These aren't Democratic values. These aren't Republican values. They're American values. We believe in them. They're who we are. And if we honor them, if we believe in ourselves, we can build an America that's stronger at home and respected in the world.

So much promise stretches before us. Americans have always reached for the impossible, looked to the next horizon, and asked: What if?

Two young bicycle mechanics from Dayton asked what if this airplane could take off at Kitty Hawk? It did that and changed the world forever. A young president asked what if we could go to the moon in ten years? And now we're exploring the solar system and the stars themselves. A young generation of entrepreneurs asked, what if we could take all the information in a library and put it on a little chip the size of a fingernail? We did and that too changed the world forever.

And now it's our time to ask: What if?

What if we find a breakthrough to cure Parkinson's, diabetes, Alzheimer's and AIDs? What if we have a president who believes in science, so we can unleash the wonders of discovery like stem cell research to treat illness and save millions of lives?

What if we do what adults should do - and make sure all our children are safe in the afternoons after school? And what if we have a leadership that's as good as the American dream - so that bigotry and hatred never again steal the hope and future of any American?

I learned a lot about these values on that gunboat patrolling the Mekong Delta with young Americans who came from places as different as Iowa and Oregon, Arkansas, Florida and California. No one cared where we went to school. No one cared about our race or our backgrounds. We were literally all in the same boat. We looked out, one for the other - and we still do.

That is the kind of America I will lead as President - an America where we are all in the same boat.

Never has there been a more urgent moment for Americans to step up and define ourselves. I will work my heart out. But, my fellow citizens, the outcome is in your hands more than mine.

It is time to reach for the next dream. It is time to look to the next horizon. For America, the hope is there. The sun is rising. Our best days are still to come.

Goodnight, God bless you, and God bless America.

[Name removed]

186. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

190. I thought it was a great American speech....

...which topped off a fantastic convention. Best democratic convention in my life-time. I think that the fact that a number of the speeches contained similar ideas as expressed on DU, including these threads, indicates not that they are reading our posts, but that there is a mood in this great country that is taking root.

This was the democratic party that seemed impossible a year ago. It is united, and dedicated to a goal. And we have the tools we need: the US Constitution, and especially the Bill of Rights. Freedom of speech. Freedom to lobby our elected representatives. And we have the right to vote.

These threads are not going to find the legal "proof" needed to convict VP cheney et al in a federal courtroom. Those who continue to focus on this miss the point: it was never our goal. We never said we would. But, like the information in RFK Jr's new book on VP cheney, which he admits is not "proven," we have a strong enough foundation to present it to the general public. Our stated goal is grass-roots democratic action.

Those who continue to lash out against our efforts claim to be in favor of open dialogue. Yet, when we remove the personal attacks, what do they offer? The idea that our work is of no value? That a combination of circumstantial evidence and common sense is without merit? That we should allow "experts" to "prove" everything for us, as if the idea of an upper class defining reality is democratic?

No. In the late 1960s and early '70s, the people of this country were able to smell a rat in the White House. The majority of the grass roots had long since connected the dots, before the elected officials followed with their hearings.

Our goal is not to promote ourselves, or sell an article for financial reward. I've never attached my name to this, and have not been aware of anyone else on our team trying to promote their name. We aren't doing this for fame or fortune. We are doing it because we believe it is the right thing to do. We are investing our time and energy because we believe that it is an obligation that citizens have to this country.

I recognize that there are some people on here who do not speak that language. For profit is their diction, and self-promotion their tongue. Though they may believe themselves to be sincere, their disruptive tactics speak for themselves.

Kerry called upon us all to do our duty to our country. I'm convinced that the group of people here, on these threads, feel that we are doing something that is a small but important contribution to our society. We are exercising our constitutional rights.

[H2O Man]

193. More on Wilson........

including some good, some bad .....

see: http://enquirer.com/editions/2004/07/30editorial_blogwatch.html

and: http://www.usamnesia.com/interviews/jw/wilson.htm

[Pallas180]

195. I "spoke" with Will Pitt yesterday- he is going to write about Wilson

at the ACT rally with Dean - but it won't be until he gets back from a trip across the country, unfortunately.

If anyone has a transcript of the speeches that took place at
the ACT rally during the convention, I'd sure like to see it...
It was so packed, the fire commissioners closed the doors and
even Congressman and Senators were left outside.

[Pallas180]

194. H20 - you said

"These threads are not going to find the legal "proof" needed to convict VP cheney et al in a federal courtroom. Those who continue to focus on this miss the point: it was never our goal."

That is true. It was never the goal. However I do want to tell you H20 the work that is being done here, is no different than the work an investigator does for lawyers who do take it to trial.Bits of information and FACT, put together, which lend to a theory, a conclusion of what occurred, which the attorney, or a prosecutor then builds the case he will present to a Judge and Jury.

The information gathered here is mostly based on fact and not every case has a "smoking gun". In fact, few of them do.

If it helps some legislator to see a clear picture and lights a fire under him or her, to act in the congress to bring a proper action, or
to join Henry Waxman's action, or John Conyers' action, or Charlie
Rangel's action, or helps a decent republican to see the "truth", that will be a wonderful byproduct of all the work the many and vari-talented people have put in here.

A lot of them don't know three quarters of what's going on out here in the real world. They're overworked, buried in paper, and perhaps
too close to the trees to see the whole forest.

[Pallas180]

196. p.s. H20 - I apolgize for disagreeing and not adhering to group think :)

(sarcasm off)

hee hee hee.

:hi:

[H2O Man]

199. Water Thanks

The drop of water
hangs from the faucet
pulsing, the heart
of the well still beating

I never drink water
Harold Elm told me
even from the sink
without saying
a prayer of thanks

the drop of water
trembles, holding
the faces of all the worlds.

-Joseph Bruchac

[H2O Man]

201. Entering Onondaga

The old man
must have stopped our car
two dozen times to climb out
and gather into his hands
the small toads blinded
by our lights and leaping,
live drops of rain

The rain was falling
a midst about his white hair
and I kept saying
you can't save them all,
accept it, get back in
we've got places to go.

But, leathery hands full
of wet brown life,
knee deep in the summer
roadside grass,
he just smiled and said
"they have places to go to
too"

-Joseph Brunchac

[H2O Man]

202. An Experiment

If you want to teach a youngster a lesson about nature, and the nature of reality, try this: find a nice spot, and bury a tire. Set a medium sized rock a yard away. Within two years, the tire will be pushed out of the earth, and the rock absorbed.

And so it is with nature. If we apply that little lesson to these Plame threads, we will see that the artificial is pushed out, and the natural absorbed.

[Beam Me Up]

203. H20 Man, Would you take a look at this?

America is at the crossroads of the most serious crisis in its history.

An Al Qaeda sponsored terrorist attack is being contemplated as a "trigger mechanism" for carrying out a coup d'etat.

Whether it is going to be carried out is another matter. The statements of the Bush administration regarding the possibility of a red code alert must, nonetheless, be taken seriously.

The coded terror alerts and "terror events" which have been announced by DHS are part of a disinformation campaign carried out by the CIA, the Pentagon, the State Department and Homeland Security.

US intelligence is not only involved in creating phony terror warnings, it is also firmly behind the terror groups, providing them with covert support.

Full article: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/072904_coup_detat_america.shtml

And:

the people in charge of defending us were rewarded. General Myers, who was Acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on September 11th, was quickly confirmed as Chairman just two days later. General Ralph Eberhart, Commander in Chief of NORAD at the time of the attack, was promoted to head the new "Northern Command" a year after the attack. 1 2 George W. Bush enjoyed an immediate boost in popularity and virtually unanimous support in Congress for his agenda. The Department of Defense was awarded a huge increase in its budget.

http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/aviation/
http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/aviation/#ref1
http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/aviation/#ref2

I started a DU thread regarding this here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2112530#

[Pallas180]

208. BEAM ME UP - that is 1 heavy duty thread- we did find connection

somewhere upthread between CIA supporting Al Queda early beginnings..

nothing would surprise me.

But, from your links:

"
To shunt the Bush Administration's war plans and disable its propaganda machine, we must, in the months ahead reach out to our fellow citizens across the land, in the US, Canada and around the world, to the millions of ordinary people who have been misled on the causes and consequences of this war, not to mention the implications of the Bush Administration's Homeland Security legislation, which essentially sets in place the building blocks of a police state.

This initiative requires the spreading of information in an extensive grassroots network, with a view to weakening and ultimately disabling the Bush Administration’s propaganda machine.

When the lies – including those concerning September 11 – are fully revealed and understood by everybody, the legitimacy of the Bush Administration will be broken – Big Brother will have no leg to stand on, that is, no more wars to feed on. While this will not necessarily result in a fundamental and significant "regime change" in the US, a new "anti-war consensus" will have emerged, which will eventually pave the way for a broader struggle against the New World Order and the American Empire's quest for global domination.

[Beam Me Up]

210. Agreed. And I am doing my part to educate as quickly as possible

TONIGHT, for example, I am hosting viewing of the documentary "Hijacking Catastrophy" (it can be found listed on the Kerry/Edwards site under local -- Oakland CA -- events). This is a projection to a potential audience of about 30 people. If anyone from this thread is interested in attending, private me.

[Pallas180]

215. BEAM luv to but I won't fly anymore,- I'd be a bit late for movie which re

which reminds me,

has everyone heard that Ridge is talking about quitting
as uber uber of Homeland Security?

I think that's another sign of everything falling apart,
or their realizing we the people are just not going to sit
down and let them himmler us. That they've failed.

Am I being too optimistic?

[Beam Me Up]

219. Interesting. I refuse to fly any more, either.

I have absolutely NO PATIENCE with the pretense of SECURITY; it is such bull shit. I know I would loose my cool and say something nasty that would probably get me arrested or something. So, I just won't fly. I think more people ought to REFUSE TO FLY. If the airline industry FELT this, changes would be made -- such as REAL security -- which is NOT dependant upon the Federal government for implementation.

I hadn't heard that re Ridge; if it is true, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But, then, I want to believe that they HAVE failed and that this WILL fall apart. Unfortunately, I honestly don't believe that we've yet SEEN who is actually behind all this.

[Pallas180]

225. BEAM - and your theory of

who IS behind it is?

[Beam Me Up]

248. What I meant by that is

the most important players probably avoid media coverage. As to who they might be, specifically, I'm not informed enough to even hazard a guess. But they are not politicians, or heads of state, by and large. At least that is my suspicion.

[Pallas180]

252. Theory - Cheney has been one of them-shadow govt & made the mistake

of wanting the glory of the limelight..convinced of his superiority
and that all would see how wonderful what he was leading was.

Mistake. Unacceptable to the values conscious fairness minded American people.

I assume the others are also captains of industry,media, Wall Street,
the bankers, the oil people...

All those members on the Bilderberg we posted on the previous thread.

And they were nice enough to divide each up by country and industry
for us too. :)

If you dont find it on the previous thread,

google Bilderberg + membership

One World Government is their goal.

google and it may come up....I forget how we found it, but we were able to see people like Corzine and Peter Jennings, and Stephanopoulos, are current members......and of course the ever present David Rockefeller of Trilateral and Heinz Kissinger of everything.

Enjoy.

[H2O Man]

257. The "Power Elite" .....

again, think of the community/city you live in. The head of the republican party in your county is a "water boy," an errand-runner. Who owns the banks, the insurance companies, the fuel companies. They aren't seen in public. Puppets they are not; they are the puppeteers.

Oil. Oil. Texas oil. Saudi oil.

Now, years ago, Averell Harriman used to step back & forth, behind the curtain of power and secrecy, then back into government. No one is quite sure if he was assigned to do this, or if he did it for his own enjoyment.

The closest thing to him in the past decade has been James Baker. When bush 2 got in office, more people from the second tier were put in. Cheney is upper-tier. He is a very powerful force.

[Pallas180]

262. And he is identified as part of a treasonous criminal enterprise working

against the best interests and security of America under the
guise of a cabinet officer of the government.

So now - what then?

[Pallas180]

269. Burma, a little more raping & pillaging, illegal trade by Cheney-Halli

"An ERI investigation concluded that construction and operation of the pipelines has involved the use of forced labor, forced relocation and even murder, torture and rape. In addition, as the largest foreign investment projects in Burma, the pipelines will provide revenue to prop up the regime, perhaps for decades to come.


Halliburton failed to respond to repeated requests for comment on these allegations and other issues raised in this article.


Shortly before the election, Dick Cheney admitted on the Larry King Live! show that Halliburton had done contract work in Burma. Cheney defended the project by saying that Halliburton had not broken the U.S. law imposing sanctions on Burma, which forbids new investments in the country. “You have to operate in some very difficult places and oftentimes in countries that are governed in a manner that’s not consistent with our principles here in the United States,” Cheney told Larry King. “But the world’s not made up only of democracies.”

http://forum.johnkerry.com/lofiversion/index.php/t25122.html

[H2O Man]

214. Thank you for posting this.

I think that there are a wide range of opinions, from a wide range of people, including progressive democrats and others on the left, regarding this broad subject. I will start by saying that I do not have firm and set beliefs about the extent that forces within our own government may be able to manipulate foreign actions against our homeland. But I try to have an open mind.

I'll say this: there are educated people who say things like "the CIA killed JFK." In fact, at one point, LBJ believed that. I think that it is more accurate to say that some forces, which included CI assets (though highly unlikely operatives) were summoned to remove him from office. This is one of the reasons that I have suggested people would benefit from reading Col. Proutey's book "JFK," and the book, "Farewell America," which was inspired by Moynihan's report.

On a number of DU threads over the last half year, I have suggested that a good thing to know is how far your enemy will go to avoid defeat. Will your enemy lie? Steal? Cheat? Injure? Kill? How far is that person (or persons) willing to go? When we look at the cheney junta in this light, we kow: they will deny a segment of people the right to vote; they will trample the US Constitution; make whores of the Supreme Court; steal billions with impunity; destroy the environment; and send thousands of America's finest young people to kill and die ..... for what? For their greedy self-interests.

That's an enemy that I think we should keep an eye on. An open eye and an open mind.

What do you think of those articles?

[Beam Me Up]

217. My Reply:

My motto is "Whoever controls your perception of reality controls you."

With that in mind, I try to NOT accept anything I read simply at face value. There is no way to verify everything that these articles are implying.

However, I'm skeptical when I hear anyone speak of "the Government" or "the CIA" or "Republicans" -- these are very broad terms that may include a lot of very different points of view. I *assume* there ARE honorable citizens -- citizens who respect and want to protect the letter and the spirit of the Constitution -- in positions of power and influence in all of the primary agencies of the Federal government, including the CIA. Sy Hersh has indicated this is true and I have no reason to doubt that he knows what he is talking about. I assume the same is true for the military as well.

But there remain several problems that are of grave concern to me. One of them is that, according to this article, the legal structures of power -- or chains of command -- have now been drawn in such a way that IF there is an event which appears to be an authentic "terrorist attack," this will set in motion Emergency Management Authority that essentially suspends the Constitution and places us under military control.

I do not know what really happened on 9/11/01 but, clearly, there are many serious unanswered questions. Or, rather, questions which now have been answered in such a way that they have created a model of reality which JUSTIFIES many things which, prior to it, would have not been justifiable. Worse, this description of reality (we were attacked by fundamentalist Muslims) has now created in the minds of many many people the belief, the expectation, that yet another more serious attack will inevitably occur.

I personally find this extremely disturbing. There may very well be sincere, honorable and well meaning people in positions of power and influence, but if they believe something to be true that is not true, THEY WILL OPERATE ACCORDING TO THEIR BELIEFS. They will make decisions based on what they believe.

And where is the OVERSIGHT in all this? Lord have mercy, look how long it took to get anything resembling an investigation of 9/11 -- not to mention that this Commission did not in anyway investigate many of the underlying ASSUMPTIONS about what actually occurred. It is all presented as settled. Yes, we know what happened, how it happened, what went wrong, etc. Most everyone seems to be marching right along with this. I for one can not.

The way it looks to me is that it no longer matters very much WHO occupies the White House. I don't want to be misunderstood as one of those who say there is no difference between Kerry and Bush; that is not what I mean. Obviously the neoconservatives want someone like Bush in the White House because they can control him, because his interests and their coincide. However, I'm sure you'd agree that Mr. Bush has nothing whatsoever to offer the neoconservatives -- except as a kind of 'lightening rod' for public attention. As I've put it, they don't care whether we love him or hate him or laugh at him, so long as we continue to focus on HIM, and not on the players behind the scenes.

Clearly a Kerry win will, at least for a time, alter the balance of power. But all it would take is one small well placed nuke to take out not only the Executive branch but, potentially, most of Congress as well. Think about that. And, really, in a way, even THAT 'doesn't matter' from a certain point of view. If these Emergency Powers are put into operation, what ROLE does a President and a Congress HAVE?

I hope I've sufficiently answered your question as to what I 'think.' Understand that I'm NOBODY. I know NOTHING except what my heart and good sense tell me. Like you, I want to believe that Democracy truly can spread its wings and fly. And, apparently like you, I believe the most straight forward path to that possibility is the education of my fellow citizens about what *may* be taking place around us. I agree that the more fully informed people are about these very dark forces weaving their way through our society, the more likely the BEST (as opposed to the worst) of our true human nature can begin to come forward and assert itself.

BMU

Edit: typos

[shraby]

218. Maybe the time has come

for us to vote at each election for 2 representatives..the rep. and an alternate. Same with a senator. One rep. and sen. will go to congress while the alternate will stay in their own state and keep up on what is transpiring in congress. In case of a disaster at the capitol in Washington, the alternate will then be called into action. That way we have a voted in congressman/woman all the time..no lapse in the people's government.

Something similar wouldn't be needed in the administration because if the pres. and v. pres. were taken out in a disaster, the house fills the slots.

[Me.]

204. To me, Silence is Assent

and came the day when I couldn't stand the silence. And while my contribution on the research side has been minimal, I have used the information provided here to write letters. I don't know why posts have been deleted and I am not comfortable with that unless they were excessively rude or vulgar. There has been too much silencing going on in this country and it has been going on for more than 3 1/2 years. I just ignore those posts I don't agree with or appreciate because of their acid tone.

As for disruptors, I don't really understand the why of it. I've not been privy to the private conversations, nor do I see why I should . If they are freepers at heart, we won't change them and they certainly won't change us. If the reason is because some are worried that our speaking up will affect work they are trying to do in secret, under the radar...I'd say we've had enough of that too. It is incredibly patronizing for any behind the scenes group to think they know best how to do something and the rest of us should just shut up. As far as I can tell, whatever work has been done in secret has been so secret that it has had no effect whatsoever and the pugs have been allowed to run rampart and nearly destroy this country. I haven't seen the benefit of anything they may have done anywhere, not in the economy, environment, the courts or congress. They were so secret that I didn't see them in Florida or at the Supreme Court when the thugs stole the election. In fact the people on "our side" have been a fairly spineless bunch. A fact I have noted in my letter to democrats (who I was glad to see finally hitting back at the convention, to both the thugs and the pundits). I see it in business all the time. The hemming and hawing until it is too late or the go along to get along which gets no one anywhere. Thank heavens that those who fought the revolutionary war didn't do it in secret elsewise that George wouldn't have known change was on the way, just like this one doesn't.

The reason could be as simple as they are simply those who get off by spreading dissent. I don't know....I don't even know if anyone on this board is actually responsible for deleted posts. But I wish it wouldn't happen. Let us read everything and decide whether to ignore or counter punch for ourselves.

As for the slams against H20, he seems to me to be a big enough man to take anything. His words were the bait on the hook to me, and I am deeply appreciative of what he has been so instrumental in bringing about here. I can't imagine anyone or anything stopping him!

[Pallas180]

206. Me. Well thought and spoken. BTW only Mods can remove posts and commonly

do so when name calling and personal attacks or other infringement of the DU rules takes place.

There was name calling at H20 in the posts you didn't get to see.
But you didn't miss anything.

Whatever we are doing here on these threads apparently is disturbing
to some faction for some unknown reason. I dont know why and I dont
care why.

I do care in stopping the destruction of this country and our liberties. I think you saw my report on Savannah on another thread
back in June.

I don;t want to live in a third world banana republic police state which is what I saw, where the things that you and I say online would be enough to be jailed or killed for.

I believe the information and letters we send are our part in stopping that direction and the nullifying of the Constitution of the
United States.

I'm happy to join with the rest of the posters here on "Plame" who
have the same feelings and goal.

If we were at a democratic office stuffing envelopes, would someone
try to stop us? doubtful - at this point in time.

What we are doing here is similar. Only we are not only stuffing
envelopes, we are writing what is going into the paper stuffed in the
envelopes.

And I'm proud to be a part of it.

Amen.

[Me.]

209. Thank You Pallas!

I did think only mods could remove a post but thank you for confirming that. And as I've noticed the mods are generally non-interfering except when it comes to extreme posts, that in and of itself is a comment on the posts that were removed. But the fact that I needed that confirmation is a good example of how seeds of doubt can be sown. I'm grateful you replied. Now back to business.......

From over at DU: Sandy Berger cleared.


http://www.kyw1060.com/news_story_detail.cfm?newsitemid...

[H2O Man]

222. A New Model of the Universe

by Piotr Demianovich Ouspensky


The King of Arabistan had heard about the parting of the Red Sea and the miracle of the Exodus. He then learned that Moses himself was camping in his territory. So he summoned his best painter.

"I want you to go to Moses' camp and paint an exact portrait of this man," the king instructed.

The artist followed the instructions, went to Moses' camp, and returned to the king with his portrait. The king gave the picture to his sage, who was wise in the science of physiognomy, and the king told him to describe Moses' personality based on this science. And the sage did just that.

"King," the sage said, upon concluding his analysis, "the man in this portrait is a cruel man, he is conceited, he is greedy and haughty and filled with the desire for power."

"That can't be," the king said, indignantly. "This is Moses, a man of God. Either my painter has made an error in his portrait, or my sage has made an error in his interpretation. Whoever is wrong will have his head cut off!"

So the king ventured out in the territory, until he found Moses. The king showed Moses the portrait. "My artist says his portrait is exact, but my sage says the man in this picture is cruel, greedy, a conceited man, who is haughty and desires power. Tell me which of the two is wrong, that I might cut his head off!"

"Do not do that," Moses told the king. "Both men are right. Because in my life, I have been all of these: cruel, conceited, greedy, haughty, and desirous of power. I have been all of those things, and resisting them has been my greatest task in life. I continue to work every day, so that they remain my second nature."

[RebelYell]

205. Long but interesting article about Jim Sharp, attorney for *Bush

Who is James Sharp and why is George W. Bush talking to him?

By Kéllia Ramares
Online Journal Associate Editor

~~~~~~~~

A search, earlier this month, of the Martindale-Hubbell Legal Directory through its Lawyer Locator search engine showed the entries for Sharp and his law firm were totally barebones. (Legal directories are like telephone directories; they publish the information given to them by their listees). Placing Sharp's name and city in the search engine, turned up James E. Sharp of Washington, DC, and the firm Sharp and Associates. According to this entry, Sharp was born in 1940, received his B.S. from the University of Arizona, received his law degree from the University of Oklahoma, and was admitted to the bar in 1965. There were no indications of where Jim Sharp was admitted to the bar. Many attorneys are admitted in multiple jurisdictions. Sharp did not list any awards, publications or memberships in prestigious professional associations. Nor did he list any practice specialties.

~~~~~~~~

The personal entry had no street address, email address, phone or fax number for the firm. One has to search the Lawyer Locator by firm and then all that turns up is the street address, K Street N.W., a street famous as the home of businesses catering to government officials. None of the "Associates" of Sharp & Associates were listed in the firm entry.

The West Legal Directory, which is where legal columnist John Dean of Findlaw.com got his information, contains the firm's phone and fax number as well as an email address. It also does not list any "Associates" for Sharp and Associates. The practice area WLD lists for James E. Sharp is a rather strange one given the situation that has brought his name to media attention; it's estate planning. That's wills and trusts and setting up college funds for the grandkids. It's not about what to say if you are questioned by a Federal criminal grand jury probing the leak of a CIA covert operative's name. Why turn to an obscure estate planner for advice about a criminal grand jury?

~~~~~~~~

"There is sort of a CIA bar out there as it were," Boyle says. "That is, lawyers who have worked for the CIA in the past or have been CIA agents, either covertly or overtly or whatever. And oftentimes, they are the ones called upon to engage in legal matters related to the CIA, either when they are defending a CIA agent or when the CIA is somewhat involved.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/061404Ramares/061404ramares.html

Worth a read. It also mentions *Bush's summer in Alaska working for the CIA.

[Pallas180]

207. REB - now that is another interesting post -

dimson worked for CIA in Alaska ---oil not doubt...but follow up
through google could be interesting.That's the first place I've ever seen it written that he actually did work for them...

James E Sharp.

hmmmm

I would think a google of him with names like Reagan, Iran Contra,
+ dimson, + Republicans....anything along those lines might lead
to some interesting something or other.

Even James E Sharp + clients

[Me.]

211. More info on Sharp here

with plenty of additional links

http://www.legalunderground.com/2004/06/presidents_lawy.html

[Pallas180]

220. ME - you always come up with great links - this to John Dean's

column on the serious implications of pResident "lawyering up"


http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20040604.html

[Pallas180]

221. ME yr originial site showed we're not only group routing around in the

garbage....it also gave names and addresses of a couple of Bloomberg
reporters who seemed to be on the up and up from the article
they wrote.

Ya think they'd appreciate receiving Waterman's Paper?

[RebelYell]

212. NYT article about Alaska/Bush/CIA

The Missing Chapter in the Bush Bio: A Modest Summer in Alaska
By JO THOMAS

FAIRBANKS, Alaska — Despite the scrutiny applied to George W. Bush's life this election season, one small chapter has largely escaped attention. In an episode he has discussed with a few friends but not biographers, Mr. Bush spent the summer of 1974 working for a young airline-and-construction business in Alaska, during the oil-boom days when construction on the 800-mile trans-Alaska pipeline was just beginning.

~~~~~~~~

The aviation arm of Alaska International had a colorful list of clients, including the Central Intelligence Agency and the shah of Iran. But Mr. Bush knew nothing about them, says Dan Bartlett, whom the Bush presidential campaign has placed in charge of dealing with the press on biographical matters.

~~~~~~~~

What might seem puzzling about Mr. Bush's sojourn in Alaska is that it never comes up. His autobiography does not mention it. Nor do three other biographies of him published recently. Reporters on his campaign plane say they cannot recall his ever mentioning it, and many of his friends say they have never heard him refer to it.

In his book, Mr. Bush recounts the summers he spent delivering mail at a law firm, working for a stockbroker, roughnecking on an offshore oil rig, helping out on a ranch and selling sporting goods. But there is no mention of Alaska.

His experience there has now emerged in part because a leaflet that Republicans have circulated in the state on his behalf referred to him as "a former Alaska resident."

~~~~~~~~

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/21/politics/21ALAS.html?ex=1091332800&en=f076b42c2eaba76f&ei=5070&ex=1086840000&en=dde4f87a5ce6299f&ei=5070&ex=1080104400&en=c504dc06855a497d&ei=5070

(Registration required)

[RebelYell]

213. Alaska International airlines / Iran-Contra / CIA drug running ties

In the summer of 1974 worked for a CIA-connected airline named Alaska International Air, sited in Alaska which was later suspected by the Iran Contra Commission of being involved in CIA drug trafficking in support of the Contras.

(Footnote 3 refers to above article in NYT)

http://www.topplebush.com/bushresume2.shtml

[Pallas180]

223. Thanks REBEL - so - another secret ---was that the year Democratic

Senator died in airplane crash? Cokie Roberts' father? 1974?

in Alaska? ..................just guessing - it just came to mind
that's all.

so let's see what we can find out about summer 74 Alaska

Alaska International + 1974

CIA + Alaska International

I dont think we could look through newspaper reports of June July Aug
Sept 1974 - don;t you have to go to a local library in Alaska for
that?

CIA + dimson + Alaska

[Me.]

226. Hale Boggs

Cokie R's father was a member of the Warren commission investigating the death of JFK. Though, he fiercely contented that a lone gunman was responsible.

[H2O Man]

227. "That dog

don't hunt."

[Me.]

236. Which Dog H20?

That Hale B. put forth a belief in the lone gunman theory which has been largely discredited
or
He said it but didn't believe it?

[H2O Man]

242. He was very clear that he didn't

think there was a lone gunman in Dallas. As he said to Jim Garrison: "That dog don't hunt."

[RebelYell]

232. I saw that story on the History Channel last Saturday!

but I don't remember the year it happened. A politician from Alaska was in the plane with Cokie Robert's father, but I don't remember his name. I wasn't paying much attention to the program. I think it happened in August. I'll see if I can find anything on it.

It was a small plane, and the pilot was notoriously crazy. J. Edgar Hoover left a message on his desk that all they needed to do was look for the beacons on the plane. He didn't follow up on it.

Holy Toledo, Batman!

[RebelYell]

233. Nope - 1972, not 1974

Congressman Hale Boggs and Rep. Nick Begich.

http://www.check-six.com/lib/Famous_Missing/Boggs.htm

"The Washington-based newspaper, Roll Call, which reports on Capitol Hill, found information through the Freedom of Information Act that two FBI telexes had come in from the FBI office in Los Angeles, indicating that someone had contacted the FBI and that they had knowledge of the whereabouts of the plane and that two people were still living at the site and they gave the coordinates. This was followed up by another telex two days later in which the FBI said that they had verified the authenticity of the source and established their credibility. The source was working in surveillance technologies for an undisclosed firm and they had located the plane."

These are the telexes that the program was talking about, that sat on J. Edgar Hoover's desk until he left the CIA.

Appears unrelated to the matter at hand.

[RebelYell]

235. From the same article

"Some of the other interesting points surrounding the disappearance include; Boggs was taken to the airport for the first leg of the trip by a young democrat named Bill Clinton who later, as President, appointed Congressman Boggs' wife, Lindy, to the position of US Ambassador to the Vatican after she served eighteen years in the Congress after her husband's disappearance."

[RebelYell]

239. Hopsicker investigated Bush's* Alaska connection

"What the Times failed to report was that Bergt changed the airline’s name, when it began passenger service, from Alaska International to Mark Air. This relieved the paper of telling its readers that Mark Air, which flew support flights for Oliver North’s NHAO, had been fingered for drug trafficking by the Iran Contra Final Report.

Ironically, it was Senator John Kerry who began an investigation of allegations that elements of the supply network supporting the Contras were linked to drug traffickers, in early 1986.

When the Commission’s findings were released, they revealed that Mark Air, was "strongly suspected" by US Customs of owning an aircraft that had been used in 1984 to smuggle cocaine into the United States from South America.

Further, according to Customs, the aircraft was sold that same year by Mark Air to "a large scale drug trafficking organization recently convicted in federal court."

Although unnamed by the Kerry Commission, this is almost certainly the smuggling organization of Juan Matta Ballesteros, suspected of having connections capable of ensuring that US law enforcement was “looking the other way” when their C130’s roared into town.

Customs also reported also that it was investigating the financial activities of Mark Air and its officers because of "large cash movements to and from Mexico and other foreign countries."


A "major narcotics smuggling ring"

In a report that is the very definition of a “Modified Limited Hangout,” the Commission stated that US Customs reportedly had confirmed that Mark Air had sold the aircraft to a major narcotics smuggling ring, but "the sale to this group may have been a legitimate business deal and not drug related;” and that Customs indicated that the information concerning Mark Air officers carrying large quantities of cash was "certain," but that "such behavior is common in the air charter business and thus is not by itself suspicious.”

Nor is this the only intelligence-related scandal with which Bush’s employer was involved. Despite an eight-year U.S. embargo on the sale of all military equipment to Libya, the airline assisted Libyan strongman Col. Moammar Khadafy in obtaining three giant C-130 ''Hercules'' transport planes.

''The Hercules aircraft in Libya are doing deadly work. They were in Colonel Khadafy's invasion of Chad,'' said Pierre Salinger on ABC’s 20-20. Libya obtained the three planes -- reportedly the most powerful military aircraft in existence -- through a series of international agents and intrigue, the broadcast reported.

Libya managed to acquire the planes through an intermediary in Miami who purchased the plane from Alaska International Airways, according to Salinger. The 'middleman' used in the deal may be relevant to 9/11: notorious Lebanese weapons merchant Sarkis Soghanalian, also a key figure in BCCI."

http://www.madcowprod.com/index50bb.html

More at link

[H2O Man]

246. Kerry went after the Iran-Contra

business when no one else in the senate dared. Never underestimate the extent of the unfinished business that we are witnessing today in the national politics: Vietnam, Central America, and much more. This is the classic champion of the light forces vs the champion of the dark forces from mythology.

[starroute]

298. Kerry's the one

As we say around our house, he knows where the bodies are buried. (Metaphorically, that is -- though in this case perhaps also literally.)

It's the one thing that gives me real hope in him, despite his centrist policies. Just as the BFEE and/or Cheney/Halliburton/Brown and Root pop up in connection with all the dirty work of the last forty years, so Kerry's name keeps popping up on the other side. He *knows* about BCCI and Iran-Contra (and probably far more than we do.) He *knows* about Vietnam.

If there is ever to be a great cleansing in this nation, Kerry is the person most perfectly placed to begin it.

[Pallas180]

250. Ok - to me this says the CIA is the fourth branch of govt - but

there seem to be two CIA's. The good one and the bad one.

Now who is running the bad one? It seems to MAKE and EXECUTE
foreign policy. Does the Secretary of State run this bad CIA?

Actually, who IS in charge of the CIA, cause it doesn't seem to
be any President?

???

[shraby]

251. The Making of a Dictator (Saddam)

Interesting transcript of t.v. show
<http://www.cdi.org/adm/633/>

NARRATOR: When governments and corporations treat armaments like any other product and ship them to foreign dictators, tragic things can happen. Dictators can use the arms against their own people, against their neighbors, and against the people who deliver the arms in the first place.

[Pallas180]

238. Thanks REB- has anyone sent Waterman Paper to Roll Call?

?

we're coming up with a lot of places to send the Waterman Paper
as a byproduct of our research into other matters.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

243. OK

but wasn't JEH FBI, not CIA?

[Pallas180]

245. Yes CENTEPEDE, but we figure it was a slip of the fingers - lol

.

[RebelYell]

261. Yes but

I distinctly remember the program stating that he did nothing with the telexes. The FBI was involved in the search.

[Pallas180]

265. REB - of course, comment was Edgar was head of FIB but

not CIA, on the other hand Edgar ran the country and the polticians
by blackmail.

Of course, as terrible as he was, if there was anyone with half
a brain in charge of the CIA, when dimson made himself a candidate
they would have said, we dont think so son, cause you've been
a coke head, and we'll make it public.

on tother hand, why didn't they inform the public that pappy's pappy supported the third reich financially?

Well, maybe the CIA is the third reich.

Mayvbe the anarchists are right.

[RebelYell]

268. I read somewhere recently

that Poppy was terribly upset when George surprisingly announced he was running for Prez. Poppy told him that Jeb was next. Sounds like George has something to prove to Poppy.

I can't remember who was head CIA during the election. I thought it was Louie Freeh, but he's FBI. I never keep the spooks straight. :)

Edited to correct spook confusion

[RebelYell]

271. It was Tenet

Duh

[RebelYell]

273. Tenet Timeline

Note "1998 - fails to forsee nuclearization of Pakistan and India"

Timeline
5 Jan 1953 George John Tenet born, Flushing NY, to Greek Orthodox parents.
1976 B.S.F.S., Georgetown School of Foreign Service.
1978 M.I.A., Columbia University School of International Affairs.
23 May 1980 Marries author A. Stephanie Gaklas.
1985 Appointed to staff of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
1993 NSC, Senior Director for Intelligence Programs.
Jul 1995 Deputy Director, Central Intelligence Agency.
11 Jan 1997 DCI, Central Intelligence Agency.
1998 Under George Tenet, the CIA fails to foresee nuclearization of Pakistan and India.
11 Sep 2001 Under George Tenet, the CIA fails to foresee the attack on the World Trade Center.
20 Jan 2003 President George W Bush in the State of the Union speech utters sixteen poorly vetted (or perhaps deliberately fallacious) words: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
Jul 2003 George Tenet accepts responsibility for the "sixteen words" in George W Bush's State of the Union speech, wherein Saddam Hussein is accused of attempting to acquire yellowcake from Nigeria. This despite the fact that the CIA was not actually responsible for the line's appearance in the speech.
12 May 2004 Stansfield Turner, Carter's CIA director: "I think the biggest problem of intelligence today is political direction from the White House, and I don't know what I would do if I were George Tenet other than resign."
3 Jun 2004 President George W Bush makes an impromptu appearance on the White House lawn to announce: "I met with George last night in the White House. I had a good visit with him. He told me he was resigning for personal reasons. I told him I'm sorry he's leaving. He's done a superb job on behalf of the American people."
3 Jun 2004 Stansfield Turner, Carter's CIA director: "I think he's being pushed out or made a scapegoat. <...> That is, that the President feels he's got to have somebody to blame, and he's doing it indirectly by asking Tenet to leave. <...> I don't think he would pull the plug on President Bush in the middle of an election cycle without having been asked by the President to do that."

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/george-tenet/

[shraby]

278. It's hard to believe

Tenet missed the nukes in Pakistan and India or anything else with the credentials he has. Something is going on behind the scenes. Poppy?

[shraby]

279. Tenet somehow got himself

beholden to the power in the shadows. Maybe to get a high position in the CIA? Sold his soul to the devil for it?

[H2O Man]

282. That's simply part of

the bureaucratic system. It happens at the county level: for example, on a high profile case, an assistant DA can be sent out to "fall on his sword" and become the lightening rod for public scorn. People in a city government position learn that there are very few honest ways to rise beyond a certain point. And so the system itself takes on the life-force, or becomes the entity.

Compare it to the bee hive: is it defined by a single bee, or is the hive itself the entity? One bee may drop and die, but the hive lives indefinitely. Washington has many bee hives, but only a few bee-keepers.

People in Washington who respect the system, and go with the flow -- even when they must fall of their swords -- are confident that the system will take care of them. That includes the lowest of criminals .... and the proof is in this administration .... which is a hive of felons from all of the assorted organized criminal activities of the republican party over the last three decades.

[Pallas180]

285. SCHRABY Of course. He supplied them under Reagan and under his own admin.

CIA always took orders from pappy. named their building after
him...

part of the New World Order pappy himself envisioned.

no other explanation.

[Pallas180]

289. Yeah, it's hard to believe NSA, CIA, FBI,USAF, Norad and

how many other agencies had 1 1/2 hours to stop or bring down the 911 planes or stop them from hitting US buildings, and not one of those agencies could or did.

That's impossible.

Stand down orders?

Kissinger: "the people will gladly give up their freedoms in some
great crisis............."

[Pallas180]

272. REB - I read that too, but dont give much credence to it -

:hi:

[TheCentepedeShoes]

286. I think it's cuter

with the "e" (But you're right - a slip of the fingers)
BTW - thank you !! for all the great work you, H20 and others have done on the Plame threads. :toast:

[Pallas180]

288. Centepede :) thanks, glad you're here too.

:hi:

[Pallas180]

224. Has anyone noticed LINAZELLE's post # 177 ? it reads

"
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin

[starroute]

228. Something from Al Martin for your consideration

We all know that Martin says a lot of wild things and can't be considered reliable without outside confirmation. But this piece seems interesting enough to take into account. It's available on Martin's own site only by subscription -- but I found it posted on a message board at http://www.solomonstemple.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=147

In 1986, the Reagan-Bush Regime began selling nuclear weapons technology to the government of Pakistan openly, with the understanding that this was for Pakistan’s own use and that Pakistan would not become a reseller of said technology or any nuclear weapons built. ... Even though this was done with the understanding that they could not resell the technology, Pakistan immediately began to set up off-shore shells, principally in southeast Asia, Malaysia and Indonesia to manufacture, based on US technology it had bought, thermo-nuclear components, in partnership with US defense contractors, acting surreptitiously through offshore shells, principally in Hong Kong.

<snip>

These sales to Pakistan were suspended by the Clinton Regime, when they had accurately pointed out that Pakistan had broken this agreement and had, in fact, sold US made thermo-nuclear weapons technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea, a claim Pakistan did not deny.

When the Bush Cheney Regime came into power, it immediately resumed sales of this American embargoed thermo-nuclear technology to Pakistan. It must be remembered that this was classified technology that the Reagan-Bush Regime was forbidden by law to even sell to Pakistan. Under the 1982 Boland amendment, these sales were clearly illicit – and still are.

Weapons inspector David Kay pointed out that one of these offshore companies that Musharraf and Abdul Khan had set up in Malaysia was a manufacturing facility to produce kryton switches, the pressure sensitive switches which are necessary to detonate a thermo-nuclear weapon and are also used in binary chemical and biological bombs and artillery shells. This company in Malaysia was in partnership with the Boeing-Bell consortium, as well as United Defense, the former Carlyle Group spin-off. This offshore company in Malaysia had granted a consulting contract to the international consulting firm set up and owned by Neil Bush and the Harvard educated engineer and son of President Jiang Zi Min of China.


There's a good deal more, including details about the US defense contractors who profited by the deals and contributed in turn to the Republicans, the various Bushes who were involved, and even a connection to Kissinger Associates.

Again -- this is Al Martin, and can't necessary be trusted. But if true, it may be highly relevant.

[kohodog]

229. google is my friend!

Check this one out:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/031004Leopold/031004leopold.html



Special Report

Cheney helped cover-up Pakistani nuclear proliferation in '89 so US could sell country fighter jets

By Jason Leopold
Online Journal Assistant Editor

Download a .pdf file for printing.
Adobe Acrobat Reader required.
Click here to download a free copy.

March 10, 2004—When Pakistan's clandestine program involving its top nuclear scientist selling rogue nations, such as Iran and North Korea, blueprints for building an atomic bomb was uncovered last month, the world's leaders waited, with bated breath to see what type of punishment George W. Bush would inflict upon Pakistan's President Pervez Musharaff.

Bush has, after all, spent his entire term in office talking tough about countries and dictators that conceal weapons of mass destruction and even tougher on individuals who supply rogue nations and terrorists with the means to build WMD. For all intents and purposes, Pakistan and Musharraf fit that description.

Remember, Bush accused Iraq of harboring a cache of WMD, which was the primary reason he gave for the United States launching a preemptive strike on that country a year ago, and also claimed that Iraq may have given its WMD to al-Qaeda terrorists and/or Syria, weapons that, Bush said, could be used to attack the U.S.

Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and top members of the administration reacted with shock when they found out that Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, spent the past 15 years selling outlaw nations nuclear technology and equipment. So it was sort of a surprise when Bush, upon finding out about Khan's proliferation of nuclear technology, let Pakistan off with a slap on the wrist. But it was all an act. In fact, it was actually a coverup designed to shield Cheney because he knew about the proliferation for more than a decade and did nothing to stop it.

Like the terrorist attacks on 9-11, the Bush administration had mountains of evidence on Pakistan's sales of nuclear technology and equipment to nations vilified by the U.S.—nations that are considered much more of a threat than Iraq—but turned a blind eye to the threat and allowed it to happen.

In 1989, the year Khan first started selling nuclear secrets on the black-market; Richard Barlow, a young intelligence analyst working for the Pentagon prepared a shocking report for Cheney, who was then secretary of defense under the Bush I administration: Pakistan built an atomic bomb and was selling its nuclear equipment to countries the U.S. said was sponsoring terrorism.

But Barlow's findings, as reported in a January 2002 story in Mother Jones magazine, were "politically inconvenient."

"A finding that Pakistan possessed a nuclear bomb would have triggered a congressionally mandated cutoff of aid to the country, a key ally in the CIA's efforts to support Afghan rebels fighting a pro-Soviet government. It also would have killed a $1.4-billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Islamabad," Mother Jones reported.

Ironically, Pakistan, critics say, was let off the hook last month so the U.S. could use its borders to hunt for al-Qaeda leader and alleged 9-11 mastermind Osama bin Laden.

Cheney dismissed Barlow's report because he desperately wanted to sell Pakistan the F-16 fighter planes. Several months later, a Pentagon official was told by Cheney to downplay Pakistan's nuclear capabilities when he testified on the threat before Congress. Barlow complained to his bosses at the Pentagon and was fired.

"Three years later, in 1992, a high-ranking Pakistani official admitted that the country had developed the ability to assemble a nuclear weapon by 1987," Mother Jones reported. "In 1998, Islamabad detonated its first bomb."

During the time that Barlow prepared his report on Pakistan, Bryan Siebert an Energy Department analyst, was looking into Saddam Hussein's nuclear program in Iraq. Siebert concluded that "Iraq has a major effort under way to produce nuclear weapons," and said that the National Security Council should investigate his findings. But the Bush administration—which had been supporting Iraq as a counterweight to the Ayatollah Khomeini's Iran—ignored the report, the magazine reported.

"This was not a failure of intelligence," Barlow told Mother Jones. "The intelligence was in the system."

Cheney went to great lengths to cover-up Pakistan's nuclear weaponry. In a New Yorker article published on March 29, 1993, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh quoted Barlow as saying that some high-ranking members inside the CIA and the Pentagon lied to Congress about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal so as not to sacrifice the sale of the F-16 fighter planes to Islamabad, which was secretly equipped to deliver nuclear weapons. Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and had become so grave by the spring of 1990 that then CIA deputy director Richard Kerr said the Pakistani nuclear threat was worse than the Cuban Missile crisis in the 1960s.

"It was the most dangerous nuclear situation we have ever faced since I've been in the U.S. government," Kerr said in an interview with Hersh. "It may be as close as we've come to a nuclear exchange. It was far more frightening than the Cuban missile crisis."

Presently, Kerr is leading the CIA's review of prewar intelligence into the Iraqi threat cited by Bush.

Still, in 1989 Cheney and others in the Pentagon and the CIA continued to hide the reality of Pakistan's nuclear threat from members of Congress. Hersh explained in his lengthy New Yorker article that reasons behind the cover-up "revolves around the fact . . . that the Reagan Administration had dramatically aided Pakistan in its pursuit of the bomb."

"President Reagan and his national-security aides saw the generals who ran Pakistan as loyal allies in the American proxy war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan: driving the Russians out of Afghanistan was considered far more important than nagging Pakistan about its building of bombs. The Reagan Administration did more than forgo nagging, however; it looked the other way throughout the mid-nineteen-eighties as Pakistan assembled its nuclear arsenal with the aid of many millions of dollars' worth of restricted, high-tech materials bought inside the United States. Such purchases have always been illegal, but Congress made breaking the law more costly in 1985, when it passed the Solarz Amendment to the Foreign Assistance Act (the amendment was proposed by former Representative Stephen J. Solarz, Democrat of New York), providing for the cutoff of all military and economic aid to purportedly non-nuclear nations that illegally export or attempt to export nuclear-related materials from the United States."

"The government's ability to keep the Pakistani nuclear-arms purchases in America secret is the more remarkable because (since 1989) the State Department, the Central Intelligence Agency, and the Defense Department (under Cheney) have been struggling with an internal account of illegal Pakistani procurement activities, given by a former C.I.A. intelligence officer named Richard M. Barlow," Hersh reported. "Barlow . . . was dismayed to learn, at first hand, that State Department and agency officials were engaged in what he concluded was a pattern of lying to and misleading Congress about Pakistan's nuclear-purchasing activities."

Hersh interviewed scores of intelligence and administration officials for his March 1993 New Yorker story and many of those individuals confirmed Barlow's claims that Pakistani nuclear purchases were deliberately withheld from Congress by Cheney and other officials, for fear of provoking a cutoff in military and economic aid that would adversely affect the prosecution of the war in Afghanistan.

It seems that today Cheney is advising Bush II to deal with Pakistan's nuclear proliferation much in the same way he did more than a decade ago. Give the country a pass, lie to the public about the seriousness of the matter and tell Pakistan you'll turn the other cheek if the country agrees to allow U.S. troops to use its borders to hunt for bin Laden before the November election.

Copyright © 2004 Jason Leopold

Jason Leopold spent two years covering California's electricity crisis as bureau chief of Dow Jones Newswires. He has written more than 2,000 news stories on the issue and was the first journalist to report that energy companies were engaged in manipulative practices in California's newly deregulated electricity market. Mr. Leopold is also a regular contributor to CNBC and National Public Radio and has been the keynote speaker at more than two-dozen energy industry conferences around the country.

[shraby]

231. Looks like Cheney has a lot more

to answer for than just letting Plame's name out of the bag. Wonder how come no one went after him back then?

[H2O Man]

249. Few dared.

He's always been connected to the Power Elite, who have enjoyed a status of being above the law.

[Pallas180]

274. H20 - no one is above "the law". there's man made law and then

there's the law of the universe.

I strongly suspect the law of the universe is catching up with
F U Cheney.

[Pallas180]

237. KOHO, I guess you'll be sending Leopold the Waterman

Letter, huh ?

[kohodog]

266. Sent!

:-)

[Pallas180]

275. yeah! Koho!

[Pallas180]

234. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU , STARROUTE

and now you know for certain why junior sealed both pappy's
records and clinton's.

Some of this confirm's our research and some of it might make us look in another direction than Halliburton/Cheney.

If the "consortium" isn't Halliburton/Dresser than our theory of their being the seller to Pak has to be re-invesitgated.
On the other hand, it's highly unlikely that Cheney from the Bush
Reagan admin didn't have a hand in it -

"Pakistan immediately began to set up off-shore shells, principally in southeast Asia, Malaysia and Indonesia to manufacture, based on US technology it had bought, thermo-nuclear components, in partnership with US defense contractors, acting surreptitiously through offshore shells, principally in Hong Kong.

Carlyle "spin off" of United? They still owned the munitions mfr.
which supplied this Iraq war....? so that doesn't lay right.

Thanks Starroute - this is info that goes to RobertPaulsen.

[Pallas180]

241. Does anyone on here have the ability to search archives for

Carlyle? We did a thread on it a couple of years ago and
found all kinds of connecting links to other companies and other
people.

It might be helpful to dig up.

[Pallas180]

244. Does anyone on here belong to Salon? again the piece on CArlyle

could be on Salon archives as far back as 96,97,98

It would probably be important to these threads.

I believe it was a thread started by Salin, if that helps

[starroute]

267. Pakistan's activities elsewhere in Southeast Asia may be important

I've been sorting out my saved files of the last few months, and I keep noticing things. Here's another article with some facts that might be significant. (The piece also refers to Lashkar-e-Toiba, which caught my eye because I've only just become aware of it through these threads. I see that another piece from the same site was linked in Thread #13, but I don't believe this one has been cited.)

http://www.saag.org/papers11/paper1026.html

The piece is mostly concerned with possible Pakistani efforts to infiltrate Sri Lanka, use it as a base to spy on India, and stir up Moslem terrorism. However, it does mention some names that might be significant.

"The recent investigations into the clandestine nuclear proliferation activities of A.Q.Khan, the so-called father of the Pakistan atom bomb, have revealed that Bukhary Seyed Abu Tahir, a Sri Lankan Tamil Muslim of Indian origin, married in Malysia and with business interests in Kuala Lumpur and Dubai, was one of the external kingpins of Pakistan's clandestine nuclear procurement network. In a speech at the National Defence University of Washington DC in February last, President Bush had described this Sri Lankan Tamil-speaking Muslim as the 'chief financial officer and money-launderer' of A.Q.Khan's clandestine operations.

<snip>

"It was reported in the Pakistani media last year that Musharraf had tried to send Brig. (retd) Ejaz Shah, who used to handle Omar Sheikh, the accused in the kidnapping and murder case of Daniel Pearl, the US journalist,in the ISI as the Pakistani High Commissioner to Australia, but the Australian Government did not reportedly give its agrement. He then tried to send him as Ambassador to Indonesia, which also did not give its agrement. It has recently been reported that he has since been posted to the IB to supervise operations relating to India."


I'd been assuming that the Pakistani connection pointed only westward -- towards Dubai and Saudi Arabia -- and perhaps in the BCCI days it did. But it increasingly seems as though Pakistan's intelligent activities are also directed towards countries to its east with substantial Moslem populations: India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Indonesia. As elsewhere, terrorist activities and unholy alliances with US arms firms would both be part of the picture.

[H2O Man]

270. The most dangerous places on earth

are saturated with weapons. The last American president who actually worked at ending the production of WMDs died in Dallas in 1963. Those who have sold the components now realize that things have gone far beyond their control. There are people who do not share the 1950's Mutually Assured Destruction mentality that made the use of WMDs highly unlikely.

[Pallas180]

276. H20 - round circle. that's where Plame hit the Cheney wall -

Cheney's group, Robert Joseph was the group who believed in WMD
proliferation to cause stale-mates (while enriching the armament
companies.)

Plame's group was part of the non-proliferation of WMD tasked with
tracking and stopping the expansion of WMD.

Her group would hurt the bottom line of the pro-proliferation
military industrial complex, besides being onto the originator of
WMD illegally from this country.

[kohodog]

284. 'morning Pallas and all...Time for #15?

This one is getting a bit cumbersome.

[Pallas180]

292. Ok KOHO, i'll work on # 15 - but keep going to 300 or so while

I do.

:hi:

[starroute]

280. Bukhary Seyed Abu Tahir, the Scomi Group, and genocide in the Sudan

I've been hitting Google and following names from link to link. So far, none of the usual suspects have turned up -- but there's a lot of dirty dealing going on, and though it starts with nuclear proliferation, it seems to lead back to oil:


Bukhary Seyed Abu Tahir (piece originally from the NY Times)
http://www.nuclearpolicy.org/NewsArticle.cfm?NewsID=1317

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia, Feb. 17 — It has lately begun to seem as if B. S. A. Tahir, a prominent businessman here, had two faces.

<snip>

Mr. Tahir has been director of an investment holding company called Kaspadu, until recently owned by his wife in partnership with the son of the country's current prime minister and another prominent businessman.

<snip>

Investigators say Mr. Tahir put together a deal two years ago for a Malaysian company, Scomi Precision Engineering, to make nuclear-centrifuge parts for Libya, apparently without telling the company where the parts were going, according to company officials and corporate documents. The deal was exposed last October when a ship destined for Libya, the BBC China, was seized in the Mediterranean.

<snip>

Scomi Precision's parent, the Scomi Group, is principally owned by Kaspadu, the holding company linked to Mr. Tahir, according to corporate documents on file with a government regulatory agency here.


The Scomi Group and the prime minister's son
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/17139

DAP chairperson Lim Kit Siang today urged Deputy Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi to issue a clear policy statement on issues of accountability and transparency in view of his son’s part ownership of a company which has seen rapid increase in value in recent months.

Lim said stock market observers have been keenly watching the "meteoric rise" of the newly listed Second Board oil and gas company Scomi Group, in which Abdullah’s only son Kamaluddin is said to hold at least 53 percent interest.

"Yesterday, the share price of Scomi rocketed to as high as RM9.50, an astronomical rise of 588 percent from its listing price of RM1.38 in May, thereby making it the top equity performer in the country this year," he said in a press statement.


A little more on the Scomi Group
http://www.mgcc.com.my/mgcc/bizlinks.nsf/0/5fa3d0701dcd9bb848256d09000a837c?OpenDocument

Scomi group Bhd is a 100% Malaysian-owned company positioning itself to be a big player in the booming oil and gas services industry worldwide. It has a more than 80% share of the Malaysian market in the specialist field (mud engineering). ... The company's biggest customers in Malaysia is Exxon/Mobil Exploration and Production Malaysia, Inc. which contributed about 40% to revenue for its financial year 2002, followed by Petronas Carigali Sdn Bhd at 37% and Shell Sarawak Bhd at 20%.


And, finally, genocide in the Sudan -- which apparently has a lot to do with Malaysian oil companies
http://www.aisehman.org/2004/06/the_malaysiasud.html

Yes, I know shit happens. And you can't expect Malaysia to get involved in every sad case. I understand that. But what I don't understand is how we can completely separate our commercial interests from our humanity. Oil seems to have helped to numb our senses to what's happening in Sudan -- and I'm not talking about "minyak angin Cap Kapak" here.

This is a list of Government-owned Petronas' extensive operations in Sudan, taken from the company's website:

<snip>

Local private sector oil and gas companies are striking it rich in Sudan too. Ranhill Bhd through its unit, Ranhill International Inc and Petroneeds Services International of Sudan has secured an oil and gas contract in Sudan worth US$239.4 million (RM909.72 million). ... And it's not just Ranhill. Companies like Scomi Group {where have you heard that name before?} also have operations in Sudan.

<snip>

But we look the other way and let the Sudanese government get away with murder -- the murder of thousands of Muslims by other Muslims; killed simply for the colour of their skin. Why are we ignoring it? It damn well (pun intended) looks like it's because of oil.

[H2O Man]

281. It can only be explained

in terms of the theories of population postulated by Thomas Malthus in 1805. Back on thread #1, I mentioned that Col. Prouty focused on this theory as being central to the power elite's belief system. It is based on the idea that the world's population is expanding at a geometeric rate, while the life-support resources expand at an arithmetic rate. Hence, only a small portion of the population is intended to survive successfully. "The Malthusian theory thus provides a rationalization for the necessity of somehow getting rid of large numbers of people, any people, in any way -- even genocide." ("JFK"; Prouty; pg 4)

Certainly, allowing thousands of people to (a) starve, or (b) be massacred, while the United States does NOTHING would not appear to be evidence that we are a "Christian" nation. Yet it happens, over and over.

[Pallas180]

291. H20-Add to that Scaiffe foundations involved in the sterilization

of segments of population.....

[Pallas180]

290. Starroute: RP & I have found Scomi connected to Halliburton of

course. I believe we posted it on the last thread #13.

Now Whenever we google some name...we throw in a Halliburton or
a Cheney. Surpirisng (not) what turns up.

[starroute]

297. More on oil and the Sudan

The basic points I've gathered are that (1) the Sudan has significant oil reserves and (2) Western companies have gotten nervous about being involved there because of the long-term civil war and pressure from human-rights groups for divestment. As a result, the Sudanese oil industry is dominated primarily by China and second by India and Malaysia.

Like the other Africa stuff I've posted on these threads, this doesn't relate directly to WMD proliferation or to Cheney and Co. But it does tie in to the rest via Joseph Wilson and Niger uranium. Their place in the Plame story is no coincidence. Africa and its resources are an important part of the big picture.

The crucial fact may be that Africa is the world's last great source of untapped natural resources. It's presently a Wild West sort of place, where mercenaries, arms dealers, diamond smugglers, mafiosi of various nationalities, and terrorists can operate with a free hand. And it's shaping up to be the next great superpower battleground, especially as new powers like China and India lay their claims ahead of more risk-adverse nations like the US, Britain, France, Sweden, and Canada.


Here's a summary of the Sudanese oil situation as of 2001, with emphasis on the human rights issues:
http://www.woaafrica.org/Oil.htm

Here's a pretty good general history which brings things more up to date:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/sudan.html

Here are two articles about Petronas (the Malaysian national oil company) getting more involved as Western firms pull out:
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cna32094.htm
http://www.sudantribune.com/article.php3?id_article=3365

And here's a very odd piece, which sees the overwhelming presence of China in the Sudan as a triumph of US (!) foreign policy:
http://splmtoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=1228

[Pallas180]

287. FYI - The Origins of One World Government - CFR and before

The dream of world domination, however, did not die. House and his friends realized that public opinion in America had to be changed before any form of world government could succeed. While shuttling to Europe on post-war peace negotiations, House arranged an assembly of dignitaries from which was created the Institute of International Affairs which had two branches. In London, it was called the Royal Institute of International Affairs (RIIA); in New York, it was called the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), formed officially July 29, 1921.

The founding President of the CFR was John W. Davis, personal attorney to J. P. Morgan. Paul Cravath and Russell Leffingwell, both Morgan associates, were also among the founding officers.7 Money for the new organizations was provided by J. P. Morgan, Bernard Baruch, Otto Kahn, Jacob Schiff, Paul Warburg, and John D. Rockefeller, the same people involved in the forming of the Federal Reserve.8 The purpose of the CFR was to create a stream of scholarly literature to promote the benefits of world government, and attract a membership of rich intellectuals who could influence the direction of foreign policy in America. The CFR, supported by the world's wealthiest foundations and individuals, has been extremely successful. Its flagship publication, Foreign Affairs, is the port-of-entry for many ideas that become public policy. The U.S. delegation to the founding conference of the United Nations included 47 members of the CFR. The Secretary-General of the conference, Alger Hiss, was a member of the CFR. Hiss was later convicted of perjury for lying about having provided government documents to a Communist espionage ring.9

- ---- - - - - - - - - - - -

The whole site is book legnth but relays the background of who and
what and whence came "One World Government" "New Order".

Apparently their time table is being rushed. Their original date for
"conquerance" is 2012. That's a date that keeps showing up.

Some form of one world government has been a goal that
irked both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson who said:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson


http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Global_Governance_1.htm

Try this one too:

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/

And on Edit: I'm familiar with some of the writings of Alice BAiley.
They are dark, pessimistic, almost to the point of being sick. And this is what some major institutions based their philosophy's on.

[Pallas180]

294. BARRY GOLDWATER on the TRILATERAL Commission:

(and they've just about accomplished it - note that pappy was and
is a member of the David Rockefeller Trilateral Commission)

""The Trilateralist Commission is international... ...is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateralist Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power - political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical."

Barry Goldwater (1909-1998) US Senator (R-Arizona), in his book "With No Apologies"

[Pallas180]

295. "Terrorism is the war of the poor. War is the terrorism of the rich."

quote by Leon Uris, Trinity, a Novel of Ireland, 1976

[Pallas180]

296. Heyzeus Christos. This one is chilling because it is happening NOW.

"There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological

method of making people love their servitude, and producing

dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of

painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people

will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will

rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to

rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by

pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution."


Aldous Huxley's lecture to The California Medical School in San Francisco in 1961

(Edit - the one exception is those with the internet available to them, they didn't count on that on 1961)

[Pallas180]

299. CLOSING THIS THREAD - GO TO PLAME #15 -THANKS

SEE YA ALL THERE.