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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:09 PM
Original message
Blackout Conspiracy thread

Monkey boy said the blackout is an interesting "lesson" for the country.

He also added that he has always been in favor of modernization. $$$

He said that this isnt a terrorist attack, which begs the question, how does he know
That when they dont know what caused the blackout?

How does the blackout help W and Republican interests?

Discuss :-)

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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. More nukes will be the 'answer'....
...together with UN inspectors monitoring Clinton's dick.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Fully fund SDI
Nukes in space will protect us from terrorist blackouts.
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. This was not a generation problem,
it was a distribution problem.

Of course, that doesn't mean they will not propose additional generation to solve the problem.
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berry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Actually, Gray Davis said that on Larry King. That only by having an
oversupply can the people be protected from the blackmail and lies of the Enrons of this world. (or words to that effect) My head is spinning. (I'm glad to hear Davis come right out and accuse Enron, though. His attackers seem to think no one will remember who put Davis and California in the corner they were in.)
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will work 4 food Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. could be
a trial run to see what would happen if a nuke went off in NYC. The EMP would have roughly the same effect. Hmmmm, where did I leave my tinfoil hat?
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
45. Hi Your Highness!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tax credits for energy development
For the free market deregulated power corporations. When we couldn't afford to do it when they were municipal.
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
39. bingo
On Larry King last night they kept going on about how Congress needs to "take action." With this coming from someone representing the industry, I finally figured out that what they were probably talking about is another handout of our hard-earned money to corporations.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. Trial run to find the weaknesses in the system
Apparently it is still possible to knock out the entire grid by hitting just one piece of significant equipment.

I'd say that's a major weakness.

Also would be a good time to plant some more detonators in key buildings.
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Also would be a good time to plant some more detonators in key buildings.
Or some major crime heist :-)
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mjb4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I finally get it ...Iraq's power problem
I just thought about it: lights out are not that bad -- but there is no fridge and no ICE for comfort!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Chimpy *did* call this a rolling blackout
Maybe it was something planned like all rolling blackouts.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. A List of Theories
1. It was a terrorist 'attack', more a probe to see the reaction of the U.S. to such a 'disaster.' Call it a trial run.

2. Done as an excuse for why the economy isn't recovering.

3. A way to shift more money to the Ken Lays of this country to modernize the energy infrastructure.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
55. U.S. Military Used ElectroMag Weapons In Serbia
According to this article by ABC News, the U.S. tested very secret high-tech weapons in Serbia, causing short-term power outages. At one point it was effective in knocking out 70% of Serbia's power grid. You have to wonder why they didn't do this in Iraq, instead of destroying their power infrastructure and plunging that country into long-term chaos:

"...Non-Lethal Power Outages

Payloads dropped by an F-117A stealth fighter over Yugoslavia unleashed little bomblets containing chemically treated spools of graphite thread in early May. The highly classified weapon exploded over power stations and short-circuited 70 percent of Yugoslavias power grid for seven hours. Total destruction would have caused billions of dollars in damage, but the temporary power outage for seven hours did the trick. It disoriented the Yugoslav military, but posed minimal threat to the civilian population and the
environment..."
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mjb4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. got the fake arms sale off front page
the man's numbers are in the TANK! It was time... but to address the nation on NY Power is just ridiculous!
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. It very well may be
that this was just what it appears to be, a breakdown in the system. shrubs talk certainly did not seem to appear as if he were up to speed on anything so i don't thing the tin foil hats need be applied here. besides, he knew it wasn't a terrorist attack because he didn't have one scheduled during his vacation.
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. LOL!!!!
he knew it wasn't a terrorist attack because he didn't have one scheduled during his vacation.

He is on vacation, and out of harms way.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Clintons Penis
It may have been Clintons penis.;-)
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Of course,
Clinton's penis is the root of all evil.

Pun intended.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. They may try to push the energy bill through
I was flipping around on the tv a couple of hours ago, and one of the shows was doing that routine -- I think whichever one had Bill Richardson on. I only caught snatches, but I heard someone talking about how we stil don't have a national energy policy and we need to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve. (Boy, don't they seem to come up with that as the answer to everything!)

I really don't think it's a conspiracy, since they seem to apply the same one-size-fits-all answers no matter what happens. I'm waiting for Bush to pop up and say the way to prevent it from happening again is to eliminate all taxes on energy companies!
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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. Software worm?
Edited on Thu Aug-14-03 09:54 PM by nomatrix
The first thing that came to my mind. No hat required.

Newyawker99 hope you are O.K. out there.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. Worm was my first thought, also
Power transmission across the country is heavily dependent on the Internet, is it not?

:freak:
dbt
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Throckmorton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. No it is not
Most of the control systems used for power co-ordination date to the late 1970's.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. It couldn't have been a terraist attack.
Chimpy and his buddies are all on vacation.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. I really don't think this can do anything but HURT Chimpy
1. If it's a terrorist attack, he will have been shown to be ineffective in the fight against terrorism, in spite of two costly wars;

2. This blackout could show the dangers of deregulation of the power industry, in which each power company looks after its own interests first, damn the network;

3. Either way, this can't do anything but have a crippling effect on the economy. I work in retail, where Bush's child tax credit HAS seemed to have the effect of increasing spending, at least temporarily. But my sales were WAY down tonight, and I was not in a blackout area.

No, folks, I think this may be the metaphorical "death knoll" for Bush.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
51. I'm of the same opinion, but look for the following spin
The negative effects will be staggering. However, look for the admin. to use it as an opportunity to do the following:

Blame the continuing bad economy on the BO
Ram the energy bill through congress and claim the Dems are unpatriotic not to support considering the BO
Claim it was caused by not enough dereg
Fund an incredibly expensive new grid w/ taxpayer dollars, but privatized and contracted w/out a bid to one of their cronies

Maybe I missed something, but that sums up their response. However, this is a golden opportunity to mercilessly slam the chimp while he's already vulnerable. Hillary already started. Look for others to follow. We may have just reached critical mass....
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
20. I do believe that this is another Wag the Dog......
This guy literally gets away with bloody murder!
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. ooh! ooh! EMP!
wiped out the computers on the grid and caused a cascade!
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
23. Well, along with everything else, pls. look at Post #2 in this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=177323

And remember that Bush immediately hawked upgrading the pwoer grid, Bill Richardson (friends with energy companies) did, and so did Mario Cuomo. Anyone else?

Eloriel
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. That's the most feasible explanation I've heard advanced so far. (NT)
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BehindTheCurtain Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
25. Interesting Coincidence....
The Daily Show with John Stewart was scheduled to have Hillary Clinton as their guest. Thanks to the outage, the show (which films at 6:00 PM EST), had to be canceled.

My bet..Evil Ann Coulter voodoo...:smoke:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. Hi BehindTheCurtain!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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shatoga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
26. One stop shopping post (conspiracy evidence links here)
If 'seeing is believing"
See the radar imaging at this government site:


See something inject a pulse of power into the northeast USA:

http://weather.noaa.gov/radar/loop/DS.p19r0/si.kokx.shtml

Directed energy weapon test perhaps.
Posted here because it coincides with the beginning of the 'blackout'.

Items from various websites and talk radio:

IRS office employee claims they switched to backup generators at noon.
('Blackout' began at 4:15 pm)

http://www.nomorefakenews.com

Has lots of anomalies gathered.
eg: Supposed lightning strike to power plant story.
Employees present at the plant report clear skies, no lightning.

In my own words:
'This event had as much official BS "ready to serve" as the Reichstag Fire of 911 did.

JON RAPPOPORT http://www.nomorefakenews.com
>see my first report below, which mentions the possibility of a surge at the time the blackouts began....I'm sure there will be no official out-in-the-open investigation of this possibility, but there is a suggestion here of an external force of some kind applied against the grid....was there an attack??....naturally, Homeland Security took about five minutes at most to assure everyone there was no terrorism here....but I'm not talking about about somebody setting off a bomb at a power station (although one witness in New Jersey claims he saw a power station on fire)....if there was an attack, it would have been sophisticated....never dismiss the chance of "disaster as theater" planned and executed to cause disruption in the infrastructure and lives of people....<

Search for any Wellstone crash thread or search for "DOJ directed energy"
to read five year old reports about directed energy weapons development.

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whirlygigspin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Halliburton can rebuild the grid
Edited on Fri Aug-15-03 04:45 AM by whirlygigspin
Nothing like making people sweat
so you can get billions to rebuild the system.

Energy trader of the world unite!
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. That is the weirdest radar image I have ever seen!!! n/t
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. There is a mundane explanation for this:
> IRS office employee claims they switched to backup
> generators at noon. ('Blackout' began at 4:15 pm)

That would be about the time LIPA (Long Island Power Authority, my work area's power company) designated Thursday a "Critical Day"

From an e-mail from my company's Office Services division:
Once again, LIPA has instituted a voluntary Peak Power Reduction Program to avoid severe voltage reductions, or rolling blackouts.

(name deleted for privacy), our landlord, has asked us to participate again in power curtailment between the hours of 2:00 pm - 6:00 pm, on "critical days".

LIPA has issued a Critical Day alert for TODAY.


If the IRS office got a similar notice, they may have switched to their generators that early to help take their load off the grid (and avoid brown/blackout problems themselves).
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
29. How did he know "This is not terror."?
Just because they don't know what caused the blackout, doesn't imply it wasn't a terrorist act. Does he know somethings we don't?
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shatoga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. He does know something we don't---- he saw this!
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Unfortunately that radar loops no longer covers the incident
last 12 hours loop , I have tried to find one that covers yesterday

afternoon and cannot.

If anyone can find it , it deserves its own thread
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
30. They appear to be trying to blame it on God... which begs lots of ????s
From a NZ perspective this hole blackout looks extremely iffy.

1. Aren't power grids designed to deal with plants going offline, fires, lightning etc..

2. What's with this bizarro lightning strike report - this got heavy play down here - and now seems to be being debunked very fast. What is interesting about this is that this was what someone wanted us to beleive.... i.e. that the hand of god came down and turned out the lights. A seemingly plausible acceptable explanation... unless your freezer contents have been spoiled.

3. It is damn suspicious that everyone is so quick to rule out terror/foul play. How can they possibly know? Why are they so confident?

4. Where are the engineers? Why do we have people who know nothing speculating on the cause. If this was a normal event we should know by now what caused it. It's not rocket science to tell us. This transformer failed, this circuit breaker did not trip. This took out this power station etc... etc...

5. Nothing this big has ever happened in the US, everybody keeps saying. In fact nothing this big has every happened in electricity distribution anywhere. Period. 50 million people without power for how many hours now!

6. If this had happened down here in NZ I am sure people would by now be looking for someone to blame. Not talking idly about "modernising the grid" like the president is. Someone screwed up BIG... VERY BIG HERE... this will cost billions and probable a fair few lives to boot. Americans deserve an explanation.

... So much for the skepticism about the official explanation. Personally... barring an extremely credible explanation I reckon this is a man made event.

Why?

Here's my suggestion.

At first glance I would suggest this is cover for some huge robbery/evidence destruction operation.

The cameras are off. Security systems will be off. Roads can be closed without anyone turning their head. Military and police - or people who look like the military and police - can go anywhere they want and nobody will be surprised to see them.

What could be worth risking so much to achieve. Something very big indeed.... I don't know. But I would guess that it would involve vast quantities of your money.

The parallels between this event and 911 are chilling. Both occurred under Bush's watch. And both events have been followed by a remarkably compliant media seemingly willing to broadcast whatever bullshit explanation first comes to the mind of the nearest official. (The lightning strike I reckon mirrors the discovery of the passport of the hijacker in the rubble of the WTC...)

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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Ya...
they were taking off with all the $ they've scammed & pocketed under everyone's noses..why else would he take a month off on the anniversary date. They've got themselves covered by having him appear at a few LARGE fundraisers..Aren't they clever!
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shatoga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Has Amerika been amBUSHed again?
Posted by althecat

>3. It is damn suspicious that everyone is so quick to rule out terror/foul play. How can they possibly know? Why are they so confident?<


Could it be they know it was something which struck in two bolts of energy and supersaturated the power grid?

See the link in post# 26 from a US government weather radar website.


Not a smoking gun.
evidence of something far more powerful than just a gun.

* the only terrorists operating in the USA are the Bush administration.



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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. Nice forensic work, Althecat. Kudos to the Kiwi.




"We need an energy bill that encourages consumption."
- George W. Bush, Trenton, N.J., Sept. 23, 2002


"I think the American people--I hope the American--I don't think, let me--I hope the American people trust me."
- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2002

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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
33. A plot to stampede the Energy Bill through congress?
They know how to shut down the power! They did it before so ENRON could plunder California!
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
38. I can believe that we've been attacked again.
Edited on Fri Aug-15-03 10:41 AM by rocknation
They figured out how to bomb the WTC without a bomb, didn't they? Why couldn't they have figured out how to computer hack or supersaturate, as the poster Shatoga puts it, their way into a US power grid?

rocknation
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
40. Catastrophes have been too good for W and Republican interests

I smelled the bullshit coming on when they ruled out terrorism without being
able to explain the cause of the blackout.

Nonetheless, I dont think it was terrorists because they (terrorists) would have done something to take American lives, I think.

This smacks of Bush shenanigans.

Many of you came up with many different angles of how the Bushies could benefit
from this and I think they are very plausible.

These catastrophes, like 911, are complex, and are used to push several different pet
Republican issues forward.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
42. tax cuts to the rich
so the rich can buy up power companies and promise to improve the infrastructure (which they won't).

It's Enron all over again.
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
43. Check this thread for latest:
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
44. I know what happened...
Here you go...

Karl Rove is tired of seeing the news reports of troops dead every day, so we need more troops. He tries to get other countries to help but he's screwed them over so bad he has no luck. Rummy, Osama, Karl, Condi, and Colin Bowell all get together and decide they need some slave labor to work over in Iraq so they can have celebrations with Chimpy showing the troops coming home. The only problem is where to find the slave troop labor. Rummy reminds him of the movie "Canadian Bacon", and Rove comes up with a brilliant idea. We will sabatoge the power grid in the Northeast and blame it on Canada. Once the people find out they will be furious. Then, he'll explain they are massing troops on our border and say that fighting between Canadian and American troops in Afghanistan has broke out. He knows Wolf Blitzer will have a field day. So, we invade and conquer Canada with a small army of 3000 troops and annex the whole country. We then force the Canadians into a draft and send them to Iraq. Finally, Chimpy gets his picture op with the 10's of thousands of American troops coming home.

Anyway, I read on the Internet somewhere that was the reason. :tinfoilhat:
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sangha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
47. Environmental regulations
They will try to use this eliminate enviro regs. They'll say we would have built more transmission lines if it hadn't been for the exo-terrorists. It's the East Coasts version of CA's "energy crisis"
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. what would happen on election day 2004?
nothing? anything?

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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Yeah, maybe it was a test run
Convert everyone to all-electronic ballots, and then cut the power to the Democratic voting NE.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. I posted that uselessly years ago
The implications of getting accomodated to 'rolling blackouts" with zero blame of Enron or the GOP would fit in nicely to electronic ballot planned chaos. pressing buttons, digital "Skynet". America terminated.

Instead people rant about Bush cancelling elections or nuking us. Why when they can control things so easily? With people swallowing all their excuses and following THEIR finger-pointing stupidly.
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jfkennedy Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
50. Could be a conspiracy
The Republican's might have been wanting to see what would happen if they knocked out the power in the United States. They then trained some mock terrorists to see if they could do it, and they were able to.

Then that gives the Bush Administration the green light to build Nuke plants from the West coast to the East coast in the name of National Security.

Or it could of been and actual terrorists attack but they will not say.

Is it impossible that it could of been a terrorist attack?
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Missing a proveable obvious point
Planned exquisitely or not, the absolutely consistent exploitation of all such events for the Bush agenda IS the conspiracy right in front of our eyes. Trying to prove MIHOP that we cannot see allows us not to act on what is plain.

Many if not most of all the shoddy chaos HAS been instituted, redefined and exploited by the usual suspects. Yet we still wistfully we had... what? A video? A tape? A document? A Deep Throat?

Nixon forced that "smoking gun" bar. It was NOT needed. All the dots lead to Bushco personal profit and America's ruin.

In ANY direction Bushco is allowed to take them.
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