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Did this pic make the mainstream? I got it from BartCop.

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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:33 PM
Original message
Did this pic make the mainstream? I got it from BartCop.


Too sad for words. This kind of photo could end the war, though. It's called the Dover Effect.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hadn't seen it
Thanks. Saving and distributing.....
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. I count at least 18
in this photo. This should be front page in USA Today.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Looks like 18, maybe 20 (2 coffins at the far end?).
Notice the time/date stamp. Last Wednesday.
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carpediem Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. wow - that is so sad and powerful.
brought tears to my eyes instantly - thinking of all the families that are being ripped apart over this ridiculous war.

I spent a lot of time earlier at the Witmer's website reading about Michelle and her family- here: http://home.wi.rr.com/jwitmer /

it's so awful and unfortunately nowhere close to over.

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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's a conveyor belt
OMG. I think it's more like 36. I never saw it on the news but I rarely watch nowadays.
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. That picture was too sad to caption but you nailed it.
"Conveyor belt." :cry:
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. My guess? A Lockheed C-141 airborne conveyor belt.
This goes on every day (with varying numbers of coffins). That's what the Bu$h regime does NOT want the US public to realize. The US public is inured to numbers. However, it is very sensitive to pictures. If Bu$h is going to get them killed, then DemoTex says show the homecomings at Dover AFB, the main morgue for US foreign military operations.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Sigh...a grand aircraft; sadly, used for the same purpose in Vietnam
History repeating...

My dad flew home countless bodies from Vietnam when he was flying 141s in the AF. So, so sad to see this again. :cry:
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VNvet Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
59. I think you're right...141
I was a pilot back then and flew many plane loads of caskets, but don't recall any flags. What you can't imagine from the photos is the smell. Each box had a pressure relief valve. Medevacs were bad, but at least they were still alive. A year of that, then a year in helicopter at Danang and another year in Caribous at Cameron and Phu Cat. I was very moved by this picture even after twenty-five years.

Interesting the people that must pay the price and their loved ones are not trusted with the overveiw, Bush's grand stategy for the M.E. and then the world. The US is not leaving Iraq, not ever. I'm not entirely convinced world domination is worth it.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Great time to be flagmaker.
Hope they aren't made in China.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Or India.
.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. That is sick and sad
But thanks for posting it.

:sigh:

I really, really hate Bush and this "rah rah, go war" bullshit that is going on.
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gemlake Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. What about 677 coffins?
Someone should have a memorial for the Iraq war with a flagged draped coffin for each American soldier. Precisely what the bush* administration refuses to allow the public to see.

BTW, I do recall seeing a similar photo a few weeks ago that were coffins for the Afghanistan soldiers.
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bushiehater Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. ASU West did just that!
They placed a flag in the ground for each soldier killed in combat. It was a very touching display. The event provided a great reminder that we should lift prayers up to God everyday for the safety and courage of these brave men and women who are fighting as hard as they can.
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JPJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. kick
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. I don't think photos, no matter how sad, will end this war
Americans, for the most part, don't act to stop wars. Since most personally have little at stake, it's not a priority.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. But the lack of emotional stimuli will help perpetuate the "status quo."
"The Dover Effect" is a mainstream theory in political science. The pictures might not end the war, but lack of a shocking reminder as to the reality of the numbers of the day (677, and counting), allows the regime in power to continue to make war, virtually unchecked by public opinion (the weather vane to which they are attuned!).
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick
:kick:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'd think the best AntiWar protest would be ...
... for the protesters to carry 680+ empty flag-draped coffins four abreast up Pennsylvania Avenue and stack them in the bocked off section in front of the White House, then gather in Lafayette Park and play taps.

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freeforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Wow! That would be powerful.
Very sad picture, but something the public needs to see.

* has got a lot to answer for. Pleeeeeease vote this f**ker out of office!
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Plan ahead TahitiNut, my friend
You will need to add 15-20/day to your total. Kind of a moving average. More like the 'Nam than I want to think.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
62. I know, good buddy ... them body bags are getting filled again.
Dreams of empire feeding on the corpses of the young. Same ol' shit.
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Danny Boy Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
29. I'm down for that
You start to organize it and I'll be there, my little (19) brother is a nat'l guard soldier fighting in Sadr City. He should be home at school, not fighting to maintain an occupation.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. I hope your brother stays safe
And welcome to DU :hi:
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. Please keep us updated on your little brother..
.. we have a few people on DU with family over in Iraq right now. We're all family now, I think.
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. I'd Drive From Michigan to Participate
If anyone organizes something like this, I'll be there.

And I might bring friends.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. We could caravan ...
... and carpool, since there'd sure be more than 4-5 of us.
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. This Protest
Really needs to happen.
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IranianDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
53. What an idea...
What a message that would send.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #53
60. It's the kind of protest that'd be hard to counter.
What would the freepers do? Denigrate the dead? Soil the flag? :shrug:

Imagine the visual of acres of flag-draped caskets. Twenty in the cargo hold of a plane is one thing. Over 700 (who knows how many?) covering an acre or two would have people stunned.
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. just reading that idea brought tears to my eyes
:cry:
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #55
73. Mine too
That pic is heartbreaking.

This protest would be heartbreaking. A very somber and sobering moment it would be for America. It would make this horrifying war a reality and affect every American who has a heart.
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. I've seen this pic 3 times today
and everytime I see it, I tear up. And I thought the first time or two would desensitize me.

I am not a woman that cries easily, so I can't imagine how the rest of the nation would react to seeing this.
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
66. Anyone want to make this happen?
I'll step forward and help make this happen...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. I wish I knew how.
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 12:47 AM by TahitiNut
Beyond the questions of organization and activation, there're questions of permits and logistics.
-- Where to get/make 700+ (open-bottomed?) boxes the size of caskets? Once obtained, how to ship and store them?
-- Whether permits to cover the barricaded block of Pennsyvania Avenue with this array are even obtainable. Aren't "they" likely to claim they could conceal bombs?
-- How to ensure the boxes are removed and disposed of afterwards?
-- There're costs involved. Even at $25@ for materials, that's $17,500.

Would an alternate venue make more sense? Lincoln Memorial? Dunno.


I'd sure like to help make it happen. Being in the Detroit area and having daily caregiver/support responsibilities doesn't make it easy.
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. I understand your concerns...
civil disobedience? no permit? have each participating group build and bring their own flag draped 'casket'

rather than have it be an all day a.n.s.w.e.r or unitedforpeace event, more along the lines of a "flash mob" only as "flash procession"

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. We'd need a minimum of about 3,000 "pall-bearers".
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 01:19 AM by TahitiNut
At only four per 'casket'. It'd be too hokey otherwise, I think.

But if it could be done, it'd sure be awesome. And it's not even 1/80th the size of Vietnam ... yet.
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. 3,000 is a drop in the bucket...
I'd be willing to bet that there are double that in the beltway alone that would be willing to participate, there's one individual in this thread that would be willing to participate from Michigan. I really think that this needs to get some good, full offline thought, my views are that there are too many eyes to discuss an event such as this via electronic communication...
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #70
81. I Just Want to Say
I will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make this happen, to the fullest extent of my ability. I've never organized or even participated in a large-scale protest, so I don't have the knowledge that would be required to actually put this thing together. But if there's anything I can do to make this a reality, I will.

The nation needs to see this.

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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #81
87. I'm going to make some telephone calls today
I know a few people in a few places, I'll keep you all posted.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #69
91. It would hurt this maladmin. That's why they'd never allow it to happen.
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 11:06 AM by JohnOneillsMemory
I can't imagine that these fascists would let such a valid and powerful visual protest against them happen.

They would definitely play the 'security card' and 'time of war card' and disallow it.

In fact, I'm sure that there are people watching this site and other sites to get wind of any effective displays of protest to prevent and plan against them.

These are public plans we're making here to damage the veneer of virtue of the most powerful group of killers on the planet.

Bull Connor and his police dogs are back in power. We're all black now.
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pissedoff Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #68
95. no need for civil disobedience.....
very good point about flash procession - just need to get coverage
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pissedoff Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #68
96. no need for civil disobedience.....
very good point about flash procession - just need to get coverage
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #67
71. Check out the floral industry.
I think I've seen large rectangular cardboard boxes for shipping flowers.
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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
116. The 3000 poll barrers would double as the
Edited on Thu Apr-15-04 10:44 PM by Nazgul35
amount of men and women wounded in combat.....dressed appropriately....full media coverage to get the full impact of this....

Perhaps the coffins laid out on the mall between the Washington monument and the refelcting pool.....than have the wounded lay down as well in a group...

Anyone think of contacting MoveOn about this one?

edited to add:

Think of Memorial Day weekend.....the most appropriate time and would allow time for planning and obtaining permits....
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick
:kick:
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ILeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. Remember Wolfowitz predicting the Iraqis would wave flags?
I remember seeing that bastard telling Americans how the Bush Regime had dropped thousands of little American flags in Iraq and that the Iraqis would joyously wave them at the American soldiers...

This Regime is lethally clueless.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. That's an old joke of mine, slightly revised.
My joke is that I flew, in Vietnam, for The Salvation Army: dropping "Come-to-Jesus" leaflets on the Ho Chi Mihn Trail at night.
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Hornito Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. kick
n/t
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Scottie72 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
25. I saw a sound bite of *
yesterday morning. He said with a huge grin! I mean a huge grin! :puke: "Yea, it was a bad week, (laugh)' It made me so sick that I wanted to puke.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. that grinning and cackling while speaking of death,,,,
I find it so disturbing I can't even imagine why people think he is "a nice guy "... :puke:
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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. buzzflash has link to this thread
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. that's how I got here :)
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Me too.

It should be published far and wide. May George W. Bush burn in the hell he believes in.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Buzzflash rules
I donate to them and buy bookks through them whenever I can.
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Dees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
30. I saw this on Bartcop as well.
It's tough for me to look at this pic for any amount of time. Loading body bags with dead GI buddies. I never got used to it at all and still haven't.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. And never will (KICK)
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Presidentcokedupfratboy Donating Member (994 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. Is that how "liberators" are greeted?
Edited on Tue Apr-13-04 12:15 PM by Presidentcokedupfrat
Bush or Cheney won't see those pictures, either. They're both too chickenshit to take any responsibility for what has happened in Iraq.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
36. Damn It !!!
:argh:
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feistydem Donating Member (994 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
38. It's on Dominant Reality too, with a special thanks to you DemoTex
http://www.dominantreality.com

TGFI --Thank God for the Internet

...or we'd all be in the dark
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fbahrami Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
39. too sad
for the young americans returning in coffins

for the iraqi and afghan civilians rarely mentioned
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feistydem Donating Member (994 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. excellent point on a glaring omission...
We may never know the numbers of the Iraqi dead who were just going about their lives when bombs dropped on them, or were killed in a panic by some young,inexperienced soldier --but their lost lives are just as significant --if not more so because they didn't sign up for this war.
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amenenema Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #40
75. Amen
". . . the heart within them screamed for all-out war!
Like vultures robbed of their young,
the agony sends them frenzied,
soaring high from the nest, round and
round they wheel, they row their wings,
stroke upon churning thrashing stroke,
but all the labor, the bed of pain,
the young are lost forever."
(Aeschylus: _Agamemnon_; circa 470 BCE)

Amen
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JaySherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
43. kick
:kick:
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
45. They're all so young.
Faces do appear in hometown newspapers. Kids who should have their whole lives ahead of them... The pictures of spouses holding babies, and anxious siblings and parents say just as much.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
46. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Interrobang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Behave.
Edited on Tue Apr-13-04 10:24 PM by Interrobang
*Nobody* likes to see dead people coming home in boxes. I'm more left than 99% of everyone on this board, and I didn't have anything to do with the Shrub's Excellent Iraq Adventure (check the avatar), and even *I* don't.

If you ever spit on a soldier, I hope you get charged with assault.
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everythingsxen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. I am counting the seconds until...
you are banned.

Bye! Nice seeing you, entertaining disruption.

If you had any clue what DU was actually about you would know that we want to see our troops home, alive and not spit upon but cheered for doing their duty, despite being sent on a fool's errand by a madman.
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Florida_Geek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
47. How did I end up here
I was over at BuzzFlash and click on a link.... :evilgrin:

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AbbeyRoad Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Linked also from www.michaelmoore.com
on Moore's Must Reads for today:

"Did the media miss this picture?"
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donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I did this one 4 months ago
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kotto Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #51
106. authentic
Is this an authentic photo of returning coffins from Iraq?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
52. "Gut wrench-ing."
... is how Gee Duhbya put it in his 12th press conference.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Actually.. in the press conference..
he said, and I paraphrase closely, 'no one likes to see DEAD PEOPLE on the t.v.'.. then he followed with the "gut-wrenching" term.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Look, nobody likes to see dead people on their television screens. I don't
Yeh. That's why I brought it up... and to kick up a most important photo. Thanks for seeing it, Caliphoto!

Here's the quote from the crazy moron:

"Look, nobody likes to see dead people on their television screens. I don't. It's a tough time for the American people to see that. It's gut-wrenching." -- George W Bush

Source: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04105/300508.stm
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
57. Can we keep this kicked? It's too sad and powerful to slip down.. N/T
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. The idea for the 680 flag draped coffins facing the steps of the WH
would create a powerful front page pictorial seen round the world.

I hope to see it happen-

These heroes should not have died in vain.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #65
72. kick
n/t
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #65
80. It'd be perfect for Memorial Day.
:shrug:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
61. Behold: The new rationale for war.
They shall not have died in vain.
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
63. Here is another Dover AFB image from memoryhole.org
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
64. Thanks. I sent that out to family and friends...
...some of whom are so clueless they actually support this madness.

I think I'll start a new tradition of sending the pro-war ones new images as they appear.

Unfortunately, there will be no shortage of such images.

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JaySherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
76. Kicking again for the morning people.
Let's keep this kicked.

:kick:
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DSS_63 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. Results
For those of us who have wondered about Bush's censoring of pictures of the results of the war on Iraq (a war that started by America under false pretenses) take a look at the pictures found on this website. A brave journalist has defied the Bush administration's censoring of photographs of coffins returning home draped with
American flags. And though Bush has pinned the Purple Heart on a few soldiers as a photo opportunity, he has yet to attend one funeral or memorial service for any brave soldier that has lost his life in the conflict.

To me this show that not only can you be a patriot without being a Republican, but the leader of the Republican Party is too cowardice to face (or allow the American People to see) the devastation unleashed by his decision to send our patriotic soldiers into a battle with no strategic plan. Please work as hard as you can to prevent this man from returning to office.
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RoadRunner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. hi DSS_63, Welcome to DU!!
Gladya' found us! :hi:
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DSS_63 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #78
86. Thanks
I am glad to have found you as well!
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
79. Richard Perle quote....
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 09:58 AM by truth2power
What did Richard Perle say about (paraphrasing) if we fight numerous wars, someday our children will sing our praises?

I would add, "If we fight numerous wars, we won't have any children left." I wonder if he thought of that.

edit> found quote:

"If we let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy but just wage a total war, our children will sing great songs* about us years from now." Richard Perle


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Zatoichi2 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
82. Touching, but
The world's getting too small. We're either gonna fight terrorists here over there, or over here. You can't bargain with or appease a fanatic that's sworn to kill you. Fighting for what you believe in is seldom without cost. My heart goes out to the families, but most of those who join the service do so knowing the risks, myself included when I was in service.
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Iraq Wasn't a Hotbed of Terrorist Activity
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 10:26 AM by GiovanniC
Until we made it that way.

And even then, I am suspicious of attempts to characterize the people attacking our troops in Iraq as terrorists... especially when I'd be out on the street armed to the teeth killing invaders if MY country was invaded and occupied.

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Zatoichi2 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. Iraq Wasn't a Hotbed of Terrorist Activity
and you know this how? When the day comes that someone like S.H. uses WOMD that will dwarf 9-11, what will you say? Your either going to handle aggresive enemies not intrested in communication one of two ways. You're going to passify them (nearly impossible and unless you enjoy being at a radical's mercy, undesiraable), or you're going to bring the war to their doorstep. There's no in-between solution.
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #88
90. Which Weapons of Mass Destruction Might Those Be?
The ones we sold him?

And where are they? Have we searched all the turkey farms yet?

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #88
92. I love the smell of linear thinking in the morning.
(Not.) FWIW, it's spelled "pacify." :eyes:

It's fascinating to me how fear-mongers rely so heavily on (mis)characterizing those whom they target. We never have to actually ask people what they want or think when the fear-mongers are so willing to define them preemptively ... usually with projection.

It seems to me that there's almost nobody less interested in "communicating" and less capable of doing so honestly than the Busholini cabal. The Nit-witted Narcissist's performance last night is a case in point. He demonstrated his nearly total disconnect not only with the questions posed but with the realities both at home and in the Middle East.
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pissedoff Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #83
93. anti-coffin demonstration
Hi all, new here...forgive me for my mistakes in advance please. :-)

got some ideas for the anti-coffin demonstration...

you wouldn't need boxes, just frames that could be put together like with a staple gun. then staple the flags (which sounds like the most costly part at this time) to the frames. easy to transport in pieces then set up on site - easy to store and transport for other rallies, also easy to check for security people...no box, no hiding places for bombs. (although I find it hard to believe that any terrorist would strike at an anti-war rally! no matter what this administration would LIKE me to believe.)

So right now, the main issue is flags.....


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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. There's no link between 9/11 & Iraq.
The Iraqi situation is now breeding new terrorists but the whole thing could have been avoided.

I wonder if the men (and women?) in those coffins knew they were going to invade Iraq when they signed up? What battles did you fight?

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EV1Ltimm Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. i know i'm not supposed to feed trolls but...
killing fanatics will just breed more fanatics. it's a lose/lose situation.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #82
89. So what you're saying is Bush's lies mean more to you than these lives.
:puke:

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pissedoff Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
94. anti-coffin logistics
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 11:29 AM by pissedoff
Hi all, new here...forgive me for my mistakes in advance please.

got some ideas for the anti-coffin demonstration...

you wouldn't need boxes, just frames that could be put together like with a staple gun. then staple the flags (which sounds like the most costly part at this time) to the frames. easy to transport in pieces then set up on site - easy to store and transport for other rallies, also easy to check for security people...no box, no hiding places for bombs. (although I find it hard to believe that any terrorist would strike at an anti-war rally! no matter what this administration would LIKE me to believe.)

So right now, the main issue is flags.....and participants

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. 6' x 10' Nylon = $53.50
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #94
98. Hi and Welcome...
yep, the frame thing is a good idea and makes alot of sense for all the reasons you mentioned. Hey, if all attendees bring just one flag, problem solved.

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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
99. Kick
Great (tragic) photos and great ideas to protest this sick war.
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DoctorMyEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Maybe people could just hold up the flags
If you had thousands of people protesting in front of the white house, holding up in spread out fashion, American flags, 670 of them or whatever the number of dead is now, I'd say it would be a pretty impressive sight. The media would know what the flags are supposed to represent....

Groups of people could chip in to purchase flags, and it could all be coordinated here on DU.

What do you think?

I think that the image would be at once pro-American and anti-Bush.

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Idea from Kucinich4President yahoo group about the protest
Hi all - I've passed these ideas and the thread onto K4P (where I learned about the thread in the first place). We should contact Veterans for Peace.

Helderheid

From:
Date: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:47 pm
Subject: ........to carry 680+ empty flag-draped coffins .......


Even better: If all the pall bearers were veterans, preferably in
uniform or VFW uniform.

R Scott


--- In Kucinich4President@yahoogroups.com, "Clarity Sanderson Jonker"
<clarity@w...> wrote:
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard
> php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1395585
> > I think this is an EXCELLENT idea - thought I'd pass it to K4P in
hopes
> those close to DC could get in on this:
> > 16. I'd think the best AntiWar protest would be ...
> ... for the protesters to carry 680+ empty flag-draped coffins four
abreast > up Pennsylvania Avenue and stack them in the bocked off
section in front of > the White House, then gather in Lafayette Park
and play taps.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. I'm sure, Move-on and George Soros would pitch in a few $$$$...
To see this happen.

Don't forget, further upstream someones idea of wood frames, in lieu of wooden boxes, would solve many problems...ie, weight issues, transporting, easily searched etc..

HERE:

94. anti-coffin logistics
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 04:29 PM by pissedoff


Hi all, new here...forgive me for my mistakes in advance please.

got some ideas for the anti-coffin demonstration...

you wouldn't need boxes, just frames that could be put together like with a staple gun. then staple the flags (which sounds like the most costly part at this time) to the frames. easy to transport in pieces then set up on site - easy to store and transport for other rallies, also easy to check for security people...no box, no hiding places for bombs. (although I find it hard to believe that any terrorist would strike at an anti-war rally! no matter what this administration would LIKE me to believe.)

So right now, the main issue is flags.....and participants
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #100
104. I think the illusion of bodies in caskets is very important.
It's one thing to see a bunch of flags ... and quite another to see them as covering caskets. I toyed with the notion of miniatures ... but I think it loses so much power that the "bang for buck" is reduced even more than the "buck".

There's something VERY powerful about "he ain't heavy; he's my ..." as four or six people carry the simulated caskets ... possibly on their inside shoulders. Walking four caskets abreast up Pennsylvania Avenue, and the solemn wait as ALL of them arrive, would have the impact even as much or more as a still image of their array.

If this were done on Memorial Day (I know; pigs will fly), there'd probably be about 800 caskets. That's 200 rows of four arriving, one row every 15-20 seconds. Well, gee ... that means it'd take more than an hour for all of them to arrive! That's powerful -- it emphasizes the numbers. It's one thing to read "800" ... and another to experience it.


I have a really obscene idea ... is it possible that there'd be 911 deaths on June 30th - in time for "Independence Day"?? (911 is a symbolic number, especially on Iraqi Independence Day. Even though I hate making the association.)
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. Seeing Bush hasn't a solution to end this war...
800 caskets may be too conservative a number- especially if Republicans maintain power in the next election.

The never ending flow of caskets marching by 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. (Hey, theres a number 1600) would stir even the most ardent war supporter's soul.
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #104
114. wow an hour at 4 abreast
I was wondering why not single file?

Then plant some people around to salute the passing coffins. Encourage bystanders to salute. That would be say 3 hours and feel like 20 to anyone embarassed to stop saluting.

If its really an hour you could do it with half the pall bearers and have them go back for a second coffin.



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Magginkat Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #100
107. Flags

I think you might get better results with 670+ banners with the name of a soldier printed on it.

Bush & his gang of thugs would take the flags as a sign of support since he has laid a false claim of patriotism on the U.S. flag.

Every time someone waves a flag in my face I ask them to tell me where their little patriotic flag was made. Most are shocked to see "made in China" in small letters.

Maggie
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pissedoff Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #107
110. we
I have a few images of flags (stickers etc.) that were given or collected in the post 9/11 patriotic blur. It didn't take me long to realize what was going on tho... and I immediately had problems with the God Bless America all over the place. Anyway... I began to cringe when I saw these flag images...until I fixed them with a huge peace sign (usually in black permanent marker) drawn over the stars and stripes. Thats what you could do to coffin flags...AND you could have the name of a fallen soldier written on the flag and also a photo of soldier attached as well.
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Magginkat Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. Writing on Flags.................

If you write the names on the flags you can probably count on Ashcroft's goons calling it desecrating the flag. Never mind that a picture of Bush doing just that a few weeks ago was floating around the internet!

I like your idea of the pictues attached and the names could be imprinted on those!

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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
103. Drudge has now got this picture on his front page!
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
108. how about these pictures :-(
Edited on Thu Apr-15-04 11:45 AM by sce56
They made the main stream on 911 but no one slowed it down back then <>

Video is here http://www.letsroll911.org/images/WF-LetsRoll.Pod.Missi...

go to http://letsroll911.org and read the rest of the story as we are now witnessing the new "Warren commision" style coverup of the 21st Century.
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. What was the Warren Commission?
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #109
111. The coverup of the 20th century!
Report of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/jfk/warren_commis...
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pissedoff Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
113. memorial day
would be perfect for this demonstration...

kick
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #113
119. That is spot on
PERFECT.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
115. Non-pall bearers could carry the flag of their loved one in its case.
or as folded by the honor guard at the funeral.
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pissedoff Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #115
117. We MUST do this for the fallen...
Edited on Sat Apr-17-04 09:10 AM by pissedoff
it is more than an anti-war demo...it is an obligation to the memory of the fallen. This should not be your normal Memorial Day festivities this year...

Does anyone have an update on this? I know someone mentioned making phone calls etc. I am ready to do the same. Mr. Moore wanted help spending his tax refund....I think Veterans for Peace would be another good contact...Soros..
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pissedoff Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-04 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #117
118. John Lennon - Legend
has anyone seen this DVD? Its awesome and worth picking up for one song in particular! Great video of John at rallys. Also footage from Tianemen square, Kent State, etc...you really oughta pick it up. Bless Yoko for her words on peace at the Grammys...Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Say you want a revolution
We better get on right away
Well you get on your feet
And out on the street

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

A million workers working for nothing
You better give 'em what they really own
We got to put you down
When we come into town

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

I gotta ask you comrades and brothers
How do you treat you own woman back home
She got to be herself
So she can free herself

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on
Now, now, now, now

Oh well, power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Yeah, power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on


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