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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:40 PM
Original message
Bush the 'Deserter'
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004_01_18_dneiwert_archiv...

Bush the 'Deserter' Friday, January 23, 2004

George W. Bush's sketchy military record has finally surfaced as a campaign issue in 2004. It came out in last night's debate in New Hampshire, http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A39875-2004Jan... when Peter Jennings had the following exchange with Gen. Wesley Clark:<snip>

...it has been fully substantiated... http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2003_05_04_dneiwert_archiv... back when Bush performed his little flyboy stunt on the USS Lincoln. To recap: he reality is that what we know about his record now should be considered a scandal, and should have been since it was uncovered during the campaign.<snip>

...as Joe Conason http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2003/05/02/topgun/...
http://www2.observer.com/observer/pages/conason.asp
has already noted, Bush actually falsified this aspect of his service in his ghost-written autobiography, A Charge to Keep, describing his pilot's training in some detail, then concluding: ''I continued flying with my unit for the next several years." In fact, Bush was suspended from flying 22 months after he completed his training -- a period that does not even generously fit Bush's description.<snip>


...in the Boston Globe story http://web.archive.org/web/20000619121358/www.boston.co...
that in many respects was the most serious effort by anyone in the mainstream media to examine the issue...this rationalization, of course, begs the question: What if anyone else had pulled such a stunt?<snip>

For what it's worth, Michael Moore has an extended response up today, including a specific response http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php
to Jennings...Moore also has a compendium of information http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php#art...
on the issue.

Of course, I also strongly recommend anyone interested in the matter to review the hard information available at Martin Heldt's Web site, http://users.cis.net/coldfeet /
which includes the results of his numerous FOIA requests.

http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2004_01_01_xnerg_archive.html... catches Wolf Blitzer being a journalistic nitwit on this very subject.

A note: Bush's status technically was Absent Without Leave (AWOL), which is not precisely the same as desertion. Moore uses the term, as Bob Somerby notes, http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh012304.shtml
as a term of art, but it is not definitively correct.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick
:kick: Keep this one brewing. Should be a daily thread until Jan 2005 at least. To any Freepers out there. What if this is true? Should you ignore it? Does this make you think less of your hero if it is proved true? Is there still any grey matter left to think with and would you if you could? Does this man deserve your undying support?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. okay then
Would you die for George W. Bush?

I believe you can find an enlistment form on the Internet. Be sure to check the box for overseas deployment.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Damn I missed it
What did he say? Did he say he would follow Bush* no matter what was revealed about him? What is the mentality displayed?
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. "he deserves my support"
or something like that.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. hey! yer back!
what did the deleted post say?

some sort of unquestioning fealty to the faux CINC?
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. But he lied about it
doesn't that speak to the issue of "character" I thought that conservatives thought that "character" was the #1 important issue when it comes to the President of the United States? I mean this guy deserted his military duty and lied about it, that seems to indicate to me that he is untrustworthy.

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Republican President lies to send troops to die in unnecessary war = OK
Republican President, in order to appeal to gullible, brain-dead republican voters, lies about going AWOL when he was supposed to be in the Air National Guard serving his country = OK

Democratic President lies about a blow job = BAD

Or haven't you figured that out yet.
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yeah I figured that out
:eyes:

I was just baiting the freeper :)

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jansu Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. THEIR BELIEF!
WAR = DEATH = GOOD
SEX = LIFE = BAD
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Hi jansu!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Awww did you have to delete him right away?
we could have had fun with this moran, after all the original poster asked for a freeper's "thoughts" on the issue.

Oh well.
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deserter or AWOL?
We need to have a rigorous national debate on whether Bush was technically just AWOL or whether he deserted his TANG Champagne unit while he was avoiding fighting in Vietnam! This is an important issue about his character (or lack thereof.)

While we are at it we can also debate just when he stopped using cocaine and whether or not he was busted for that drug and used his family connections to cover it up. This is relevant because it might be the reason for his desertion/AWOL.

:evilgrin:
:7
B-)
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gilxner Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. thanks, papau
on behalf of skippy the bush kangaroo (http://www.xnerg.blogspot.com ), i'd like to thank you for the link! skippy is a great lefty blog, and damn funny, too!
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. thanks for that skippy link!
from link, on wolf/AWOL:

we were watching "isn't my beard cute" with wolf blitzer today on cnn , and the various guests included jamie rubin, former state department spokesman for the clinton administration, now endorsing general wesley clark.

herr blitzer was trying to stir things up without actually talking about substantive issues, as is his wont, when he asked about michael moore's endorsement of clark.

wolf mentioned that moore insists that awol is in fact a deserter, but gen. clark has not made a statement one way or the other about it.

he asked jamie about this fact. jamie replied that the general does not consider that an issue to be concerned with, and has not looked into the accusations.

wolf asked jamie directly: "do you believe it?"

jamie fired back: "i haven't looked into it either. have you?"

imagine! asking a journalist if he has researched the facts about a point he's making!!

wolf, taken aback for a second, could only mumble "i'm asking the questions here." meaning of course, no, he hasn't done any investigative work into the very issue he's bandying about to try to trip up candidates.

then he muttered a quick "we'll be right back after this."

it was a thing of beauty.

cross-posted on the american street and our kos daily diary (with a great poll, go take it!)
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I like Skippy! - I put all the links one needs if in the media - but the
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 03:12 PM by papau
media is not about to debate AWOL vs. Desertion

or what did the 1995 new Texas drivers license that (illegally) removed Bush conviction history from the open records license rules history that is to be attached to all Texas lic's ....really remove from public view

or anything else that might hurt thr PR of the GOP
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Hi gilxner!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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