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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:45 PM
Original message
Breaking on CNN - Ricin found in Senate office bldg
no story yet.

http://cnn.com/
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ricin?
??
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's a horrible biological toxin
I think it's what the KGB allegedly used to kill the Bulgarian agent back in the '70s, if I recall.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Nerve Toxin
Similar to Sarin, Soman, and Tabun.

Very nasty stuff.

Easy to make with low-tech equipment, since it's the active ingredient in Castor Oil. A field of Castor beans will allow any country to have a WMD program.

Nasty ... and scary, too.

--bkl
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. Incorrect, Ricin is a solid not a gas.
You could have a pound of Ricin sitting on the table and suffer no effects unless you went over and ingested/injected some or got it airborne and breathed it in. Sarin, Soman and Tabun are/can become gases at room temperature and are also contact agents meaning that just getting it on exposed skin can be lethal.

Granted Ricin is horribly toxic with no antidote (yet, they are working on it) and it only takes a tiny bit to kill you if it gets into your body. But it is nowhere near Sarin, Soman and Tabun in terms of danger.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
64. I did't say it was a gas
The other details are correct, of course.

I've been under the impression that Sarin, Soman and Tabun are synthetic analogues of Ricin. True? False?

--bkl
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. No, ricin is very different from those nerve agents
Ricin is a large protein heterodimer, with the subunits held together by a disulfide bridge. A huge molecule (compared to nerve agents) - its molecular weight is ~60,000. Ricin isn't a specific nerve agent, rather it's a general cytotoxin which inactivates ribosomes in a catalytic manner, preventing protein synthesis (which kills the cells).

Nerve agents are entirely different - small molecules which specifically interfere with nerve function.

-SM
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bill Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
95. not quite
Sarin et al are quick acting anti-cholinergic agents that disrupt the nervous system. Ricin OTOH, is an exquisitly toxic mitotic-spindle poison that interferes with cell division. It kills in 3-4 days as your cells die off and are not replaced.

Atropene, administered imediately, will save you from sarin but there's no treatment for ricin.

cheery thoughs this morning,

-bill
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
69. Watch it turn out to be a pair of pants from the Gap...
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wonder which Democrats' offices it was found in??
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Darwin2002 Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. probably john kerry's
n/t
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Geeez!
Imagine they planted some democrats with stuff.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Isn't that the truth?
Why do these biological attacks happen in the Senate, where the balance is much closer, than in the House of Representatives?

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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. And why is it happening the day *
decided to appoint a commission to determine why his ''daterminashuns were possibly wrong' in IRAQ. The report will come out in 2005 (not prior to election,of course). Scottie got GRILLED on that this morning.
Plus, many questions remain as to why an investigation into the Anthrax scare - but only among dem's) was not launched. Frist is a cabal insider. How perfect!!!! They can say.....ooohhhhh, ooohhh, but we got bio-weapons too.

Plus, * AWOL was on CNN this afternoon

Ignore all but Ricin/Peterson/Kobe/ JANET'S BOOB!!!/ .....

move along, nothing REAL to see here
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jenk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
50. Clinton's Penis clearly at fault
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. Must have been the Big Dogs penis
you are so right, how could I have missed it!!!

The Repug's in the senate were so busy paying VERY close attention to the viagra et al (4 hour hard on ad's) that they COMPLETELY missed Janet's boob - which could have, (possibly, on a good day, with the right vitamins and hard core porn in the background) resulted in a non-chemical induced hard-on!!!

They were so confused they stuck Ricin in the mail.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I read Frist's office on the freak republic
Not that those morons are a source of anything but disinfo... but that is what I saw there.

Gee, isn't it odd that everytime bushit's poll numbers tank we have some big deal of this sort?

Bet two days from now it will turn out to be comet cleanser not ricin.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
72. They were right for a change.
There was a small story about this on the late news here, and they did say it was found in the mail slot at Frist's office, in powder form.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
73. I guess it is OK
A white powder, which preliminary tests indicated could be the deadly substance ricin, was discovered Monday in the office of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., in the Dirksen Senate Office Building

sarcasm
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Blitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is VERY big
I wonder if it's related to the anthrax attacks. Ricin is very, very bad stuff.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. highly toxic poison...
...I guess that's one "response" to Bush's falling poll numbers, eh?
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
74. Oh yes...
they have to do something to instill fear, terror, and awe...Must be something BIG going on since they're diverting attention again..
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. clintons fault
or a distraction because of janet`s boobie?
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Bush must be thrilled! They finally found WMD's!
Unfortunately, they're 8000 miles away from where he thought they were.

(Agent Smart: Missed it by "that" much!)
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
60. What did the moron do today
that he wanted to divert attention again? Or, was it just to SCARE the people and keep the FEAR element alive..These nutcases MUST GO now!
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. how come we managed to go over 200 years
and it's only been since Bush took office that we've had all these kinds of 'attacks'. I know there there have been events beforehand, but it really seems to have picked up speed since the sheep put the chimp in charge.

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
42. Excellent question!!!
Does he just attract this black cloud over our nation, or what *LOL*!!!

He's bad luck,...let's depose him, immediately :D
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #42
80. "Bush is Bad Luck" -- a good meme for the masses
I like it, Just Me. Delivered with the proper superstition, it could have an effect on the fearful sheep.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
56. These old dogs need some new tricks.
n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. It'd be interesting to know if many people have wondered
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 08:59 PM by JudiLyn
if the same administration which lays waste to thousands of people OUTSIDE the country wouldn't also be happy to kill off people of different political outlooks WITHIN the country, too.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. That has
always been my theory. They may have gone too far this time though. I think people are catching on to what might happen when the polls go down.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
48. I hope you're right. It's about time they caught up, isn't it? n/t
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
101. I don't wonder about that.
History suggests it's a no-brainer. Bushevik attitudes lies, deceptions, frauds, thefts suggest an answer.

Of course they would. Uncle Karl and Uncle Dick wouldn't hesitate for a moment.
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Kbick Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hmmm....Bush polling lower...
Ricin found in Senate office bldg....

naw...no coincidence....

Back to Janet's Breast!
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
84. Glad you noticed, too.
You do have to wonder these days, don't you?
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. Link to Ricin effects
If it was in the air then there's a chance of significant exposure. People become very sick fairly quickly. No cure.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/ricin/facts.asp
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WheresWaldo Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. CDC Link on Ricin
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. it would have to be
a powder or an aerosol to kill .well unless you would pick up a bean or some weird looking stuff and eat it
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. "Significants amounts required"
to be effective through aerosol or ingestion.
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WheresWaldo Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Bulgarian Assassins using umbrella's
from CDC web-site

"n 1978, Georgi Markov, a Bulgarian writer and journalist who was living in London, died after he was attacked by a man with an umbrella. The umbrella had been rigged to inject a poison ricin pellet under Markovs skin."

sounds like something from the movies
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. This is some pretty potent stuff
What's even weirder, back in when I growing up after a long rain storm and a good flood, this stuff started growing up all over up and down the creek bed. All of us kids played all kind of childhood games in and around it.

My friends and I never had anything bad happen, till one day some kid we really didn't know well and was new to the area, ate one or chewed on one of them little juju berry things and died. After that everybody was a little Leary of them plants around the neighborhood. It was kind of strange, they fenced off the creek, but we still jumped the fence and went about our bussiness


http://www.ehso.com/ricin.php
(snip)
Ricin Uptake
The RTB portion of ricin binds to both glycoproteins and glycolipids at cell surfaces that terminate with galactose. It has two binding sites for galactose, and 106 to 108 ricin molecules may bind per cell. However, just a single ricin molecule that enters the cytosol can inactivate over 1,500 ribosomes per minute and kill the cell.




As shown in the diagram, the pathway for internalization of ricin involves:



1.)endocytosis by coated pits and vesicles or,
2.)endocytosos by smooth pits and vesicles. The vesicles fuse with an endosome.
3.)Many ricin molecules are returned to the cell surface by exocytosis, or
4.)the vesicles may fuse to lysosomes where the ricin would be destroyed.
5.)If the ricin-containing vesicles fuse to the Trans Golgi Network,(TGN), theres still a chance they may
6.)return to the cell surface.
7.)Toxic action will occur when RTA, aided by RTB, penetrates the TGN membrane and is liberated into the cytosol.

Once inside the cytosol, the RTA catalyzes the depurination of the ribosomes, halting protein synthesis.
(snip)
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pacifictiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Gosh I don't believe anything at face value anymore
Isn't it a sad statement that my immediate thought was - ratings are down so drama is needed to put everyone back in dependency mode.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
21. Quick! Duct tape the entire building!!!!
:evilgrin:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. This updated report just in
What was thought to be ricin, has turned out to be W's cocaine stash. Never mind.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
24. Here's a LINK
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 09:13 PM by Robb
There's another story on ABCNews.com, but that site takes forever to load. ;)

Ricin Letter Found In Anti-Gay Senate Leader's Mail

Posted: February 2, 2004 8:50 p.m. ET

(Washington, D.C.) A letter showing traces of the deadly chemical ricin was found Monday night n the mail room of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist.

The biological agent was discovered in a test given all mail going into the senator's mail room. The "field test" is not conclusive. Capitol Police put the letter in a biohazard container and have sent it to the FBI lab for further study. Some field tests that showed mail was contaminated with other chemicals in the past were later disproved by the FBI.

Neither the senator nor his staff are said to have come in contact with the envelope.

Ricin was developed to be used as an agent of biological warfare and as a weapon of mass destruction (WMD). It is widely available, easily produced, and derived from the beans of the castor plant.

(more)
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Aw heck, well, here's the ABC version:
Hazardous Substance: Suspicious Powder Empties Some Offices at Senate Building

Some workers in a Senate office building were told to leave their offices today after tests indicated the presence of a hazardous substance. Sources said one test indicated the presence of ricin, a deadly poison derived from castor beans.

he U.S. Capitol Police said a suspicious powder substance was found at 3 p.m. in a room in the Dirksen Senate Office Building, located northeast of the Capitol. An initial field test found nothing hazardous, but a subsequent lab test by the Capitol Police indicated the presence of a hazardous material, said Sgt. Contricia Sellars-Ford.

Sellars-Ford did not specify what hazardous material was detected, but said the Capitol Police were sending the substance out for further analysis.

Two official sources told ABCNEWS that one of the tests was positive for ricin.

(more)
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
51. Bet they planted this themselves.
Very much a Rove tactic - remember when he bugged his own guy's office, to make the opponent suspicious in voters' minds?

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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #51
76. I sooooo agree.
It is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain. See above posts for reasons
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. anti-gay??????
what? Is that his only defining obnoxiousness? What is this?
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demdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. Look at the source....365gay.com
It is a gay news source that is often linked in LBN for the latest news about, in and of the gay community and interests.
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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
61. This is not a Gay issue.
Frist is Senate majority leader. Beside, let's not get into a uproar untill all the tests are in. What's this about Janet's boob?
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. They'll probably be rounding up renegade cats soon
Perhaps some felines were seeking revenge against the Cat Killer?
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JaySherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Methinks this could spell trouble.
Wonder if the Repubs will use this as justification to start bringing down the Homeland Security hammer on gay rights and progressive groups. Will this be the start of lefties being officially labeled as 'terrorists?' That possibility has to be considered, especially if the media is already labeling this an attack on an "anti-gay" senator.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. In what form?
And how deadly was the form?

Would it kill from breathing it in (like the anthrax), or would the Senate people have to eat it or something?

Ricin is deadly, but I want to know what the circumstances in this case are.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. From the CNN.com article:
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 09:16 PM by alg0912
<snip>
There is no antidote for ricin poisoning, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A dose the size of the head of a pin could kill an adult.
</snip>
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
28. Calm down. Its made from castor beans and it takes a lot to do
damage.

"Field test" was "inconclusive".

Probably another false alarm.
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Purveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. CNN article...
Early tests show deadly ricin in Senate mailroom
White, powdery substance undergoing more tests


WASHINGTON (CNN) --Preliminary tests on a white, powdery substance found in the mailroom of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist indicate the presence of the deadly substance ricin, a Homeland Security official said Monday.

A U.S. Capitol police spokeswoman said the department is investigating the matter but would not comment on the substance found, saying only that preliminary tests were positive for a "hazardous substance."

The substance is to be tested further at the Army research laboratory at Fort Detrick, Maryland.

<snip>

Ricin is a natural, highly toxic compound that comes from castor beans, used to make castor oil. It can be inhaled, ingested or injected.

There is no antidote for ricin poisoning, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A dose the size of the head of a pin could kill an adult.

<snip>

Full Article Link
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Fearmongering
Here's the CNN line...
"A dose the size of the head of a pin could kill an adult...."

Of course, it has to be injected, which isn't mentioned. Significant amounts must be inhaled or ingested to be harmful.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. So many bogeymen means we gotta have more martial control,...
How come Franks prophesied such a thing? Just how sick are these people? Just how willing are they to "force" their prophesies to become real?
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #45
77. Don't forget - they're also foisting the
'End of Days' rapture fear on their fundie base (sad , pathetic non-thinkers they are...) They are sick with power and will do anything!! The end justifies the means...and they are MEAN!
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
82. Heard that blurb too. Maybe CNN forgot to mention the needle...
that also came with it and the note instructing one to stick it in your arm? :silly:
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. It is not used to make castor oil
it is taken out of the castor bean oil.
It is a by-product. You could die from eating some beans.
Castor plants are also widely grown as decorative plants.
It is difficult to mass-weaponize.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. Here is a pretty picture
http://www.ehso.com/ricin.php
Castor Bean Plant
The castor bean plant, Ricinus communisis a "native of tropical Africa cultivated in several varieties for the oil found in its leaves and for its bold foliage."(Alber and Alber)



(snip)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
66. So you can't make ricin, say, at home?
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #66
71. Yes
You can make it at home.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #71
81. No details plz, or all of DU liable to be rounded up & sent to Gitmo nt
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. Maybe this was why Daschle
was so subdued in raising questions about bush's self exploration of intelligence (he won't find any). This has got to be intimidation.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #33
75. Speaking of Daschle...
has anyone looked at the book that he has out? I was at Borders book store the other eveing, and scanned the book...Lot of interesting things..especially about the anthrax that was sent to him...sort of A WARNING..These people are dangerous pukes, and from how it was written, shall we say it was a threat or else.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. google "ricin" in the news section
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 09:22 PM by rchsod
and you`ll find many interesting ricin stories. there`s a 100,000 dollar reward for someone who mailed ricin to a post office in south carolina-anyone hear of that?- and a bunch of white guys who wanted to kill federal official.
edit for content
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
38. I totally believe if it has been found in Frist's, a Republican's, office
it has been positioned there in a non-threatening manner to counteract the appearance someone right-wing tried to bump off Daschle and Leahy, two once powerful Democrats.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I'm sure this is the first of many discoveries
Most, of course, will be Democrats.
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LifeDuringWartime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. my first though, as well
seems to make sense. it appears that they're learning, somewhat.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
55. How Much Would A Surgeon Know....
....about ricin. Would he have the ability to cretae it himself, or is there a chance that he might know someone who can get it for him.

I know it sounds like tin foil hat time, but at this point anything could happen.

If it was found in Frist's offices
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45th Med Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
40. Story Link
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
46. Is this how they plan to pass Patriot Act II? eom
.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. SSCARRRY Thought
Why don't we focus on Janet's boob instead - or that dastardly Scott Peterson, or That dreadful/persecuted Kobe.............
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Why not?
It worked the first time.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. What ever happened to that Blake guy?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
70. Patriot Act II has already flown under the radar....
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
58. If it was ricin sent to Frist's office...
... my bet is that Ashcroft will round up every cat in the country -- seems they're the special interest group with the biggest beef against Frist.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Ashcroft will want the calico cats
They are known to be quite devious as well.
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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #65
96. only the male calico cats
that's 1 in 3500 calico cats actually, so this will take an enormous effort by our law-enforcement agencies. We might have to give up certain of our freedoms in the process, but these are perilous times.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
62. Ah, yes, things are heating up for the Bush Crime Family so here
come the terrorism scares.
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
63. Anthrax getting old as a diversion!?
This is ridiculous, maybe if spaceshrub tried to figure out where the Anthrax came from (ha!) this would be a non-issue.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
67. It was found in a mailroom on the 4th floor
of the Dirksen Office building.
There is an offsite postal facility that screens the incoming mail for WMD. How could this have gotten through? It must have been in the outgoing mail.

The Capitol police have confirmed that two of the three test that are being done offsite have come back confirming that it is ricin.

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #67
99. Yup - an inside job
probably to distract from Frist's computer hacking problems.

Wasn't Chimpy crowing in the SOTUS about how there have been no Terra attacks since 9/11????

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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Execpt for
Except for Anthrax,
Except for Ricin,
Except for Exposing CIA operatives,
Except for...

A lot of exceptions there.
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LosinIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
78. There was a crime show on TV within the last few weeks ....
where a woman killed her husband with castor beans. They specifically didn't specify how she got the ricin out of the castor beans, but that was what she used to kill him. I only caught the tail end and I can't for the life of me remember what network it was on, could have been Discovery or Learning Channel.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
79. if they are still treating the mail with sterilization techniques, ricin
will not be affected.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
83. Texas Tech project to develop ricin-rich castor beans & cotton w/ricin
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 01:50 AM by lostnfound
While checking the web on ricin, I ran across this cheerful Sunshine project summary of a Texas Tech project which began in 1995 to "move the genetic code for ricin from the castor bean into other plants, such as cotton" and to build "a machine to automate the process of extracting purified ricin from seeds".
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #83
89. Recombinant ricin can be produced from other organisms...
although I was unaware that they were trying to do it in cotton. For a terrorist organization without state-sponsored support, I suspect it would be easier for them to produce via the old school method using castor beans.

-SM
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #83
102. Link has been disabled
Your link to the Sunshine project summary no longer works. I guess it was exposing too much "Texas" info.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. Maybe you could find it here
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
85. they've been talking up Ricin with al-queda forever and a day
You can dig up the supposed training manuals (maybe they're real, dunno, I'm too friken spun at this point)which mention how to make it on a variety of sites, cryp tome? fas? Maybe even one of the networks had it, but it was a heavy story just after 9/11.

In fact, that video of the poor dog getting offed in Afghanistan, wasn't that supposed to be the Taliban's experiments with Ricin?

In any case, the timing, considering the *'s plunge in mainstream polls, is highly suspect. If there are more incidents, esp. w/ Repubs, and esp. if no one is hurt--just an appearance of a WMD on US soil mimicking the hardcore weaponized anthrax attacks in the mail (a different universe of a WMD), then count me as highly suspicious.

But let's hypothesize for a moment that it is some nut job not connected with the admin (there probably are some, somewhere). Has Frist done anything to get anybody's panties in a bunch?

Can't really think of anything Frist has particularly done, besides walk the line. Worth a google I guess.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. Here's where I saw the Ricin al-Queda manual--the smoking gun.com
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ricin1.html

Will maybe google some more now, or go pass out...

Last comment, if I do go pass out--the gist, I thought, about the anthrax mailer, if he was indeed part of "our" military-industrial/spook/biowar/whatever complex--seemed like they didn't expect to actually kill people. Or as many, beyond the targets anyway. "Take penicillin," right?

Just a thought, which really needs a few more paragraphs to explain. It's a degree of psychoticness thing, degrees of evil, messed up thinking, which is hard to convey/understand because you have to empathize with something alien to being a normal human first. Get in that warped mind.

Ricin strikes me as an unlikely killer via the mail, but somebody gets to say WMDs are alive and well in the capital (Ridge). And, aimed at, good lord, republicans, who, unlike the democrats, are fighting the terra-rists. (That should all be in big quotes).
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. The Taliban puppy video was likely cyanide gas...
I seriously doubt it was ricin - IIRC on the video there was a gaseous substance being produced - someone added something to a liquid then quickly left the puppy alone in a sealed chamber. Doomed puppy then expires 30-90 (I forget exactly how long...) seconds later. I remember thinking that they'd added acid to a cyanide salt.


-SM

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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. yeah, I agree
Just seem to remember talk about Ricin circa that, if not explicitly about that.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #87
91. Dog was CNN in Afghanistan--ABC had Ricin Story in N. Iraq
See: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/iraq_missi...

And (not the dog but Ricin w/ al-Queda via CNN):

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/central/01/22/alq... /

Here's the dog bit:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/18/terror.tape.main /

------


Ricin Was also part of Powell's UN pitch for invasion, with al-Queda Afghan link (no wonder I'm confused):

Zarqawi, a Palestinian born in Jordan, fought in the Afghan war more than a decade ago. Returning to Afghanistan in 2000, he oversaw a terrorist training camp. One of his specialities and one of the specialties of this camp is poisons. When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqawi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp. And this camp is located in northeastern Iraq.

You see a picture of this camp.

The network is teaching its operatives how to produce ricin and other poisons. Let me remind you how ricin works. Less than a pinch -- image a pinch of salt -- less than a pinch of ricin, eating just this amount in your food, would cause shock followed by circulatory failure. Death comes within 72 hours and there is no antidote, there is no cure. It is fatal.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.powell.transc...
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Ah yes, I remember now...Ansar al Islam
Islamist Kurds who were causing major headaches for the PUK and KDP. After we invaded Iraq did we ever follow up on their alleged dabbling in chem/bio weapons? It's my understanding that many of them were eliminated, and the rest likely fled over the border into Iran. I always thought the whole thing sounded like a flimsy pretext to somehow, someway link chem/bioweapons with Iraq, since none were being found under Saddam's jurisdiction. Did they every find any hard evidence on the ground? Wouldn't they have played it up if there was any?

-SM
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #85
88. Editoriql: "Kill Bill -- To Expand Medicare"
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 02:44 AM by Snazzy
http://www.empirepage.com/guesteds/guesteds217.html

...With the nation at war following a devastating attack, the economy struggling, and every realistic economic analyst forecasting financial trouble for the 38-year-old government program, expanding Medicare is among the most ill conceived notions in American politics.

...

The Congressional conference committee negotiating Medicare expansion is led by Sen. Frist (R, TN), who is wholly determined to enact the largest expansion of the state's role in health care in almost 40 years.

Apparently, Sen. Frist has become alarmed at the prospect of seniors getting dumped for drug coverage and he has ordered committee members to devise ways to *force* employers to do it. Until now, employers were relatively free to decide what benefits they offer their employees.

Sen. Frist's dictate is based on the concept of force. However employers are forced to provide benefits is irrelevant; the mere consideration of such measures is tantamount to nationalization of employee benefits. In any form, it is a dangerous step toward national socialism, an economic system in which the state controls the corporation.

....


Several intentional meanings in that headline, though I find it somewhat hard to believe someone took the literal one to heart.

Other than being the symbol, and maybe wanting to run '08, not much pops on recent google on Frist besides this sort of rant on the drugs fiasco.

g'night.
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laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
93. Well horsefeathers!
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 08:02 AM by laylah
How convenient for them :puke: I have a horrible mole problem in my yard and was going to order castor beans to plant because they are a deterrent. Wonder if I should reconsider and let the moles take over?Sh*t! The fear we (I) allow these low life assholes to instill in us (me) is disgusting!

Jenn

Edited to add another "I"
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
94. Politically motivated neocon plant
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 08:13 AM by LeftHander
They are showing that they can strike congress at anytime.

The PNAC and the NEOCONS is the terrorist group we should be fearing.


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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. Without a doubt
These folks think they can get anything they want by fear or force, as soon as they run into a force they can't move they turn tail for a while. They come back later in some other attempt to undermine this thing they want and desire to control and overwhelm. They are as predictable as a spoiled child.

They say it's all co-winky-dinkys but with major money interests and other large consortium's of usurpers in tow, these folks won't pull too many punches. Be prepared and know what you are dealing with
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
98. Credibility

It just makes me really wonder why the democrats get a deadly powder that by all reports was milled extremely fine in order to facilitate inhalation; and the republicans get a horribly deadly poison that kills either through injection/ingestion, or by inhaling 'significant amounts'. Surely if someone was really trying to kill people, they would have utilized a form which actually had a chance of achieving their goals... :tinfoilhat:
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
104. OK, so now does anybody believe that Bush Co was behind...
the anthrax attacks? I've always thought they were the more likely suspects. I never bought the Hatfill theory. My feeling is that Bush was negligent in the 9/11 attacks and culpable in the anthrax attacks.

Think about it. They wanted a reason to go to war. So they dreamed up the anthrax scheme and then as they were in the process of implementing it 9/11 happened and everything changed. Without 9/11 anthrax would have been used as the excuse to whip up the war fever.

Now we have this ricin scam. Where do you suppose the stuff comes from? It's not just sitting on a shelf down at the hardware store. And it would take more than one person to be involved for it to suddenly show up in several places at once like this.

You don't have to be Colombo to figure this one out.
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