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Reply #55: I suppose that you could be right: I have always thought of it as a pleonastic idiom.... [View All]

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xocet Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
55. I suppose that you could be right: I have always thought of it as a pleonastic idiom....

founder3 (founder)

(of a ship) fill with water and sink:six drowned when the yacht foundered off the Florida coast
(of a plan or undertaking) fail or break down , typically as a result of a particular problem or setback:the talks foundered on the issue of reform
(of a hoofed animal, especially a horse or pony) succumb to laminitis.


laminitis in horses, ponies, or other hoofed animals.


Middle English (in the sense 'knock to the ground'): from Old French fondrer, esfondrer 'submerge, collapse', based on Latin fundus 'bottom, base'

It is easy to confuse the words founder and flounder, not only because they sound similar but also because the contexts in which they are used overlap. Founder means, in its general and extended use, fail or come to nothing, sink out of sight (the scheme foundered because of lack of organizational backing). Flounder, on the other hand , means struggle, move clumsily, be in a state of confusion (new recruits floundering about in their first week)

Source: ( )

founder, founders, foundered, foundering (verb forms)
1. A ship filling with water and sinking: "The ship foundered during the severe storm."
2. To become submerged; to become filled with water and to sink: "The crew escaped as the ship was foundering, but before it sank into the ocean."
3. To experience failure: "His career foundered and he had to move from job to job for many years."
4. It also has an established pleonastic sense as part of the idiomatic "founder and sink".

Source: ( )
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