Reply #17: I'd like to make a point right here about the Bill Hicks quote you are commenting on

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

that also relates to the entire chilling picture you are painting.

"It's not a war on drugs, It's a war on personal freedoms." Bill Hicks.

I knew a long time ago when the Supreme Court affirmed that there were entirely different rules of seizure and forfeiture for drug miscreants that we were heading down a road to oppression. Current law allows for people arrested of drug violations to have their properties seized AND DISPOSED OF prior to conviction. I understand that freezing of assets is probably necessary, but to actually seize and disperse before conviction just blows my mind. Land Shark, if I am wrong on this point, please correct me, but I am sure I have read horror stories about people who lost everything but were later found not guilty or never even tried.

I can't understand how there is one special class of crimes and criminals that are especially exempted from rights provided under the 4th Amendment. They are ACCUSED of a drug crime - not convicted. Once you have that framework in place, then of course you have set precedent that other classes of crimes will soon follow. I suspect that the next "super-class" of criminal may very well be "domestic terrorist", loosely defined to fit any definition the state deigns to offer.

REMEMBER, RNC protesters in Minnesota have already been classified as domestic terrorists under the Patriot Act by an overzealous DA. They are lucky that my understanding is that those classifications of charges have been dropped. Next time, another day, another protest, perhaps not so lucky. And the way we are headed, imagine those protesters, now classified as terrorists, held in indefinite detention because they are dangerous and "might" do something in the future AND imagine them being stripped of all their personal assets. How many people will raise a voice in protest in the future if penalties like these exist? The answer is zero.

You are correct that the anti-justice, keep the people down, police state types seize on a person or class that they feel that the malleable public will go along with as being deserving of extra-special punishment. Tiller would be a good example to attempt to get rid of exclusionary laws. I also predict, watch out for the seizure of personal property as allowed to drugs suspects to follow suit, but applied to other classes of SUSPECTED criminals

Our country is now accepting of extra-special punishment for people the state labels as extra-special bad people. That is how Cheney and other formerly sane people are excusing TORTURE. TORTURE!!!!!

The ONLY thing that has kept us a relatively civilized, sane and law-abiding country for so many years has been a belief in the Rule of Law and the Constitution. Eroding in front of us daily. The oft repeated bromide about "First they came for the ____" is no bromide. It is true. People who accept erosions of the law and civil rights because they feel it will never have any bearing on their personal lives are just wrong. It will have a bearing on your life when you no longer feel free to post an honest opinion, or when your spouse tells you to keep your voice down - the neighbors might hear, or when you're afraid that a bumper sticker might land you in indefinite detention as opposed to just having your car keyed.

Having recently lost almost all faith in politicians to do the right thing and to stand up for the Constitution, I have to place any remaining trust I have in the courts and on people who are still brave enough to confront authority and on organizations like the ACLU. They will be the ones carrying on the good fight even when they have to defend the rights of people reviled by society in general.