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Dylan Ratigan WikiLeaks Video PT. 1: Lt. Col - 'Rules of Engagement Were Not Followed' [View All]

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 04:26 PM
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Dylan Ratigan WikiLeaks Video PT. 1: Lt. Col - 'Rules of Engagement Were Not Followed'
Edited on Mon Apr-05-10 05:09 PM by Hissyspit
Run time: 09:19
Posted on YouTube: April 05, 2010
By YouTube Member: firedoglake
Views on YouTube: 32
Posted on DU: April 05, 2010
By DU Member: Hissyspit
Views on DU: 2689
MSNBC The Dylan Ratigan Show - 5 APRIL 2010: Glenn Greenwald of, Julian Asstrange, co-founder of Wikileaks, Brett McGurk of the Council on Foreign Relations, and Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer of the Center For Advanced Defense Studies discuss with Ratigan the "Collateral Murder" 2007 Iraq incident video released today by Wikileaks.

PART 2 Here:

ASSTRANGE: "We can see, in this case, we really have unique material that shows how modern aerial warfare is done, hasn't been revealed before. It also shows the debasement and the moral corruption of soldiers as a result of war. It seems like they are playing video games with people's lives. Even the mission itself, though many may argue with the correctness of that mission, is thrown out the window -for example, when Saaed, one of the Reuters journalists, is lying prone on the ground, they may believe him to be an insurgent, but he clearly has no weaponry, no arms, there's no arms combat around him, and the, what appears to be Good Samaritans, who go to his aide, also clearly unarmed.

If he was an insurgent, they genuinely believed him to be an insurgent, that wounded man should be interrogated and asked about what he was doing, but instead, you can hear on the transcript, they're saying 'come on buddy, just pick up a weapon..."

- snip -

RATIGAN: "Lt. Col Shaffer, you look at this and you ask yourself 'what are the rules of engagement... How do you draw the line between the perceived threat of a camera tripod and a response like the one we're looking at, and the rules of engagement which, I presume, try to avoid this?"

- snip -

"Let me make it really clear, though. From your perspective, were the rules of engagement followed from what you see in this piece of videotape?"

SHAFFER: "Let me be clear... based on what I've seen only, and I'm making it on what I've seen: No, they were not. First rule is 'You may engage persons who commit hostile acts or show hostile intent by minimum force necessary.' Minimum force is the key here. If you see eight armed men, the first thing I would think as an intelligence officer: 'How can we take these guys and capture them?' We don't want to kill people arbitrarily. We want the intell take.

Now, most importantly, when you see that van show up to take away the wounded: 'Do not target or strike anyone who has surrendered or is out of combat due to sickness or wounds.' So the wound part of that, I find a bit disturbing by the fact that you have people down, clearly down; you have people on the way here..."

RATIGAN: "Glenn, put all of this together, and it is everybody's worst nightmare brought into reality, and it is a reality that does not get a lot of coverage, we know, in this country, if any, which is why Wikileaks exists - when you look at what is coming, which is the awareness that this, not in the abstract, but in the concrete, is what occurs, how does the American military, how does the American media, how does the American, how do YOU perceive this altering the conversation? ...

GREENWALD: "Well, I think that one of the things to emphasize is that Wikileaks is actually heroic, because this kind of footage is seen all the time in the Muslim world, about what we are actually doing over there and what the effect of our missions are. But it's seen very rarely over here and it sparks the kind of discussion that we ought to be having about what our wars and invasions actually entail our doing. And I think the other important thing to note about it is - this is far from uncommon. I mean, just today on the front page of the New York Times, the Pentagon had to admit that claims it made about a Special Forces attack two months ago in Afghanistan were completely false, where we killed five civilians and claimed that three of them were ones that we had found bound and gagged at the time that we entered the village, when in fact we ended up killing all five of those civilians. This happens constantly, but we only learn about it when investigative journalists or sites like Wikileaks expose it.

- snip -

These kinds of things are going to happen. That's the fog of war... The point, though, is we ought to think about why we continue to invade other countries and occupy other countries knowing that the kinds of things we see on this video are the kinds of things that we're going to be doing to the population there. It's not only immoral, but incredibly counterproductive. As the gentleman just said, what do you think the people who see this video and the family members who are surviving are going to think about the United States for the next two or three decades?"


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