You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #8: Where do facts fit into your universe or is it all spin and counter-spin? [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Where do facts fit into your universe or is it all spin and counter-spin?
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I was in transit.

We have not had anything like a serious public debate on Iraq. . It is as false and insincere as the pre-war debate about WMD and Saddam's ties to terrorists. Only a handful of senators and congressmen pointed out that it would be suicidal for Saddam to use WMD against us if he had them because we have 10,000 nukes and have already demonstrated a will and ability to give him a beat down if he did. Most in Congress and the mainstream media have debate non-issues as if they mattered or were even based on accurate assumptions.

Can the Iraqis handle democracy?

Can they put together a military and police to defend themselves?

Both assume Iraqis are monkeys who just descended from the trees and wouldn't know how to wipe their ass without an American in a three piece suit to show them.

The problem with Iraq democracy is not only their internal tensions but that they have to put together a government that is acceptable to Bush and the oil industry.

There's a similar problem with their military and police. Apart from infiltration by sectarian militias, they are also hamstrung by the accurate public perception that they are being used and will be judged by how well they protect American interests and nothing else.

You keep saying that the oil motive is a slogan, simply because it's "old." If you read history of the region, you will see that you are right--it is as old as our involvement in the region, and our embrace of otherwise morally repugnant thugs like the Saudi royal family. Again I direct you to the Pulitzer Prize winning history of oil THE PRIZE by Daniel Yergin. He is such a lefty that he went to work at the Carlyle Group.

You might also read the investigative reporting and documentation of the oil motive from the Cheney Energy Task Force of 2001 on by Greg Palast, Naomi Klein, Antonia Juhasz, and and a handful of others.

Although Palast did his work for the BBC, and Naomi Klein has been in the Guardian as well as Harper's, and Antonia Juhasz is herself a former Congressional staffer, I'm sure you will say these are mental patient fringe types as your script dictates.

If you are a real person, and sincerely doubt my sources, you could google {b]Iraq and any one of the phrases below:

oil privatization

production sharing agreement

hydrocarbon law

Or you could just read the recent BAKER COMMISSION REPORT. The one point where they didn't differ with the Bushies at all was in urging the Iraqis to privatize their oil and open it up to foreign ownership.

You would make a shitty cop.

You say the past doesn't matter, that we should just look to extricate ourselves.

That is like a cop stumbling across a serial killer's torture dungeon, finding naked women chained to the wall, and pots of body parts boiling on the stove, and saying the only thing that matters is getting the women out of the dungeon and therefore we shouldn't try to find the killer. When pressed further, you suggest we need tough serial killer laws, but still won't admit that this particular one needs to be taken off the street.

You seem to be saying that certain businesses and interests should be untouchable and unmentionable.

You may think you are being smart and strategic, but part of how we got to the edge of losing our democracy was because Democrats had several opportunities to drive a stake into the vampires heart and drag him into the sunlight so he bursts into flames, and instead help him back to his coffin.

Watergate, the October Surprise, Iran-Contra, BCCI, the 2000 election; the first instinct of the Democrats in each cases was to look the other way or if they investigate, let the big fish off the hook and be happy with a few flunkies taking a dive. The thanks they get for turning the other cheek to the corporate right is to get that cheek eaten too, and to almost have the democracy crushed out of our country.

You can not treat cancer if you refuse to fully diagnos the patient, and in the case of Iraq, if we proceed as if the obstacle is only misguided idealists in the White House and a handful of their hillbilly followers, we will get our ass handed to us and won't even know what hit us.

I sincerely hope that you work for the republicans or the oil industry, because if you represent the mainstream of thinking in DC, we are fucked.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC