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Reply #127: LOL! Umm, The Strawman Is Yours [View All]

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #123
127. LOL! Umm, The Strawman Is Yours
Edited on Thu Aug-17-06 04:40 PM by Beetwasher
"I hope we don't get to the point where people decide the constitution leaves us open to attack."

That's what you wrote, and it is IRRELEVANT what the people decide about the constitution, the constitution is designed to protect individual rights REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE MAJORITY DECIDE. If "people decide" the constitution leaves us open to attack, guess what? Constitutionally speaking, it's irrelevant AND w/ regards to power dynamics it's irrelevant. If you don't get it, it's your own failing, not mine.

Reverse the situation a bit and think about it. What if there was a nuke attack and the majority of people DID want to throw out the constitution but a wise leader said "No, I will NOT abrogate my responsibilities and I will NOT eliminate constitutional protections". Could the majority FORCE him to do so? Not likely, at least not anytime soon. They would have to elect people willing to do so first.

Your whole argument is one big strawman. Either you're discussing constitutional rights, which means the constitution holds authority, regardless of what the majority thinks, or your discussing power dynamics and the constitution is irrelevant anyway and in that case, majority opinion is ALSO totally irrelevant. Majorities have no enforcement power unless you're discussing elections. Only the small minority that controls the armed forces, police etc. has enforcement power, and if they had the gumption to declare marshall law, they can do so, regardless of what the majority wants. If the majority DIDN'T want them to declare marshall law, would that stop them? If your answer is no, then your point about majority opinion having any sway is blown out of the water (and any reasonable person would have to answer "no" to that).

Either you are naive, or utterly determined to cling to your strawman about majority opinions in relation to constitutional questions and power dynamics.

Again, just for clarity since you obviously need it, we are talking about TWO SEPARATE ISSUES. One, has to do w/ constitutionality and the second has to do w/ power dynamics in the event of national catastrophe. Two totally separate issues, neither of which is dependant upon majority opinion.

"If a nuke went off in the US, and the majority of the people said that we should toss out the Bill of Rights, we (as a country) probably would, assuming that majority had the power to do that, which I think they would."

If a majority were against tossing out the bill of rights in this instance, guess what? It wouldn't matter, they could do it anyway, which means THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE'S OPINION IS IRRELEVANT. PERIOD.
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