You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #176: Let's unpack them one at a time [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Choice Donate to DU
TruthNik Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-18-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #174
176. Let's unpack them one at a time
Hi uppityperson,
There are at least 5 points brought up in your response above. Please be patient with the length of my response it will take to cover the main points.

Let's look at the case of woman 1 - she's told she will suffer severe health issues when carrying to term. When you say term, do you preclude a 24-week live delivery? For the sake of brevity, ignoring the potential if the doctor is wrong in his assessment (how often do they mis-identify the gender of the baby in sonograms!) A person would be choosing a certain evil - the taking of a human life - in the "hopes" of avoiding a complication. In this extreme instance, all medical efforts should be taken to allow the pregnancy to continue as long as possible. If the mothers health reaches a near breaking point, say 23-weeks of pregnancy, it would be acceptable to deliver the child - even though the child may well die. Let's go earlier, the mother is at a breaking point at 12-weeks in pregnancy. The child would certainly die - the act committed is treatment of the mother, the undesired side effect is that the child doesn't survive outside the womb. The childs death is not the intended consequence, it is a secondary effect of treating the mother - therefore, it is legitimate. Essentially, "First, do no harm." If you want a simple answer to woman 1, how about, "calculated risk."

Woman 2 - First question is "is she culpable for her actions?" Is she consciously aware of what she is doing? Are these the actions of a mentally ill person or a cruel person? If she's mentally ill and has not the faculty to understand what she's doing, she's not culpable for her actions. For conversation, let's say she's mildly depressed - she knows what she's doing is wrong, chose not to give the baby to someone who could care for the child, and she kills it anyways. This is an act of violence committed against an innocent person. Her actions infringed on the child's right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. It's either murder or manslaughter...

In case 2, the woman is not "forced" to kill her child. If consciously aware, it was a choice. If not a choice e.g. mental illness. It is an unfortunate tragedy for both the mother and child.

You didn't adequately consider my response in the previous thread. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind - You haven't explained how a second act of violence resolves the first act of violence (see previous thread)? Please clarify.

Now the "potential life" point. At what point does a "potential life" have the same rights as you or I? If the answer is "the lives are equal" then that provides the answer to "What right does a potential have to endanger a living person?"

The question where we differ then boils down to "at what point is the undeveloped being have rights?" My assertion is that the child has and deserves the dignity of a human person from the moment of conception. Dignity is associated with humanity - at all stages of development. I believe what you are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that at some point, a person or zygote (here's the definition: a cell formed by the union of two gametes ; broadly : the developing individual produced from such a cell)
GAINS rights as a human. When does a person "Gain" human dignity? The Nazi's didn't believe Jews had human dignity. Who assigns human dignity? I'd love to hear your response.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Choice Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC