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Reply #53: Stop being deliberately vague. [View All]

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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-21-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Stop being deliberately vague.
I haven't said anything about about out-of-body experience.

No, you haven't said much of anything at all other than what you disagree with, how close-minded other people are, what isn't good enough as an explanation for you, etc. Time for you to put your cards on the table.

What part of NDEs do you think is not sufficiently explained by dreams or hallucinations? Please don't just quote another story. Tell me specifically which details are not sufficiently explained.

Do you think people who have NDEs actually experience seeing without using their eyes, gain true knowledge of their surroundings while apparently unconscious which they can remember and report later?

Do you think the apparent knowledge of surroundings during NDEs is the result of auditory, tactile, and/or olfactory clues, translated into a visual experience? If so, since people also incorporate such senses into dreams (I've done that myself, such has having someone call to me when I'm sleeping and instead of waking up, turning that call into a part of a dream), and hallucinations often are mixed with real stimuli, that kind of explanation doesn't rule out dreams or hallucinations.

Is there anything you'd rule out a person learning during an NDE? Could people see things inside closed boxes? Inside dark rooms? Things no one else is seeing at the time? Something that someone had hidden on top of a light fixture way over their head and everyone else's heads? Are you so wonderfully open-minded (unlike these stodgy so-called scientific types, clinging to their "belief systems" about what makes sense or not) that you don't want to rule anything out?

And, no, the explanation does not require anything other than a normal physical explanation.

What is your "normal physical explanation"?

Your "normal physical explanation" isn't one of these bad pop-sci interpretations of quantum mechanics, is it?

(emphasis mine)
Then, you assume that stories about people reporting factual details about what was happening while they are unconscious are cherry-picked. From the information I've read, this seems to be a fairly common part of NDEs.

What is the "this" you refer to? If the details are sufficiently vague, many people would know by ordinary means that they were, say, in a hospital surrounded by doctors, on an operating table, etc. So it doesn't take extraordinary sensory capability to incorporate such facts into a dreamed/hallucinated experience.

But even if it weren't, the fact that people, many people...

Please define "many". "Many" compared to the the millions upon millions of NDEs that happen all of the time?

...can accurately report what is going on around them while they are unconscious...

Please define "accurately"? Further, please tell me how these stories show that an effort has been made to differentiate between knowledge incorporated into NDE accounts that was easily obtainable by normal means, which information has been carefully checked to have not been provided to the NDE subject before or after the NDE, but before the person recounts the NDE.

...and that this happens during an NDE does require an explanation. At the very least, it should not be ignored because it is inconvenient for someone's particular belief system.

Thinking you need eyes to see with is a "belief system"?

I'm not quite done here, but will have to come back later to add what's left to say.
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