You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #14: People haven't made the right legal arguments, have they? [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. People haven't made the right legal arguments, have they?
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 03:05 PM by Bill Bored
First of all, perhaps unknowingly, you insult those in NY who have been working their asses off for better audits and have gotten nowhere with the election officials and the Legislature. Our officials want to trust computers to count votes. Period. They have been brainwashed by vendors and scanner advocates and some of their fellow officials and lobbyests into believing that scanners can't miscount votes and can't be programmed to do so. No different than in PA, NJ, GA and MD, etc., except without the DRE bogeyman.

You seem uninformed about this and about the chances for success. You seem to be parroting some NYVV talking points about how something wonderful is going to happen if we have paper ballots counted by computers. Time to wake up from your nap, or is it a fairy tale?, and smell the coffee.

Like so many other PCOS activists, you probably haven't taken the trouble to do the math to see how much hand counting it would take to verify all our election results. If you did, you would see that the best that can be hoped for is to settle for a much lower standard than exists with the current lever voting machines, despite their occasional failures.

In other words: paper ballots are a bait and switch. No one wants to hand count enough of them to see who won elections in NY or anywhere else. The POTENTIAL TO DO SO is not good enough. It has to actually happen. Otherwise, we're just wasting taxpayer money and providing a false sense of security. Somewhat better than DREs, but nowhere near good enough.

As to previous failed lawsuits: they have usually been about the non-existent "right to a recount." That's barking up the wrong tree.

The real issue is the right to a reliable FIRST COUNT. Sure, there will be a few ambiguous ballots that can be adjudicated later. No one disputes that, even in "no-recount" states such as New York. But the issue is that the first count, which may involve 99% of the ballots cast, is NOT reliable if it's a software count. That cannot be allowed to stand.

Show me a lawsuit that says that. They do not if they argue only for optical scan, which of course, is the same software doing the vote counting as in the DREs and therefore reduces the argument to the "right to a recount." Wrong argument. It's a loser.

No one has yet made the case that software cannot be trusted to count votes, whether it's "certified", "hacked" or "open source." If they have please cite some cases.

Also, see this post about the situation in NY:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC