You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #13: If the voting machines played a significant role, and they did, [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. If the voting machines played a significant role, and they did,
why would it be necessary to assume that the stealing of the election would require a massive conspiracy? I think Mitofsky said the same thing at the time.

As you state it:

"If voter fraud existed, it was the largest conspiracy in history involving elections officials all over the country and secretaries of state who were often Democrats."

It's true that the voting machines have been favored by pols of both stripes and elections officials as well. But if the percentages were adjusted by the machines and the central tabulators, something that is, to use Steven Freeman's words "trivially easy" to do, only handful of people would have to know about it. The machines were used all over the country. They were and are programmed at the factory. This is exactly why I predicted before the election that Kerry would lose. In addition, Fitrakis's book about the OH situation, which is out now I think (self-published), pretty well documents in detail how the electionn was stolen in OH, and I think the same thing happened to a somewhat lesser degre in FL and in other places, especially the key states. A great deal of the theft depended, not on the voting machines, which provided only a small but dependable tilt, but on a lot of other methods that had nothing to do with a secret conspiracy but rather with a very open and transparent desire on the part of Republicans to win the election, esp the dirty tricksters who have mostly taken over the DOJ and the Repub election machinery.

Also, I find it hard to buy the idea that the exit polls don't reflect reality. As things now stand it's about the only indication we have of what the real result is. The "re-calibrating" isn't based on real weighting issues, IMO, but is based solely or almost entirely on the reported results. In other wds, the polls are sdjusted to fit the machine reported results.

I also take issue with the phrase used above of "voter fraud." Voters weren't primarily involved in the fraud. That would indeed take a massive conspiracy. Only a handful of insiders were involved and it was "election fraud," based on the use of unverifiable machines programmed by partisans and criminals at the voting machine companies, the same ones who fought tooth and toenail to keep the machines from using any paper at all, a red flag that would normally alert people to fraud immediately if it had happened in any other business situation. What legitimate company would fight tooth and toenail to keep from having their machines results verified? If the machines were recording correct totals, why not make more money and add the paper ballot print-outs? That in itself is enough proof of criminal intent it seems to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC