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Reply #19: Well, Here Are MY Thoughts.... [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
The_Counsel Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-25-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
19. Well, Here Are MY Thoughts....
Edited on Fri Apr-25-08 11:50 AM by The_Counsel
"1. Obama can't straight up knock Hillary out of the race. I know this must be frustrating for Obama supporters. I know you want your candidate to win, but basically half the party feels very strongly about Hillary. He is not going to have an out right victory. Not happening. This will continue on and she has every right to continue on, just as a few million people should have the right to vote on which they prefer. This is not over. Please get used to that."

I actually agree with this, and am used to the idea that Hillary will be in Denver. I just happen to believe that Obama will have at least 2024 delegates by the time the first vote is taken. And yes, that includes superdelegates.

"2. The math is irrelevant. Neither one can make it to the nomination without the Super Delegates. The following primaries are not to see who can get the most pledged delegates, but to provide the basis for an argument to the Super Delegates... arguments that BOTH of the candidates is going to have to make."

Um ... this point contradicts itself. The math absolutley DOES matter, or else what's the point? All you have to do is look at the PA primary and see my point. Using the current system, Obama didn't have to win outright, just get as many delegates as possible. Yes Hillary will NET as many as 16, but that also means Obama adds at least 71 to his total, bringing him that much closer to 2024.

See... the math DOES matter...

"3. Hillary supporters DON'T CARE about your math. It is not going to convince anyone. Calls that this is over, that she can't win, or that our Super Delegate mommy's and daddy's need to step in and stop the democracy do not help. What it does do is serve to further entrench the divisions between us as individuals and make it that much harder to come together when we do have a definite nominee." you're saying that the superdelegates exercising their right to vote their conscience is somehow "stopping democracy?" Really? The voters have a right to weigh in, but the superdelegates don't? I hope that's not what the Hillary camp is telling the supers.

"4. If you are really that confident in your math, why shove it in everyones face all the time? Let the race play itself out and prove your math right. Constantly going over and over the math does 2 things. First, once again, it only entrenches division and makes people mad. Second, it makes it look like the Obama supporters are nervous about loosing the nomination and starting to panic. Neither one is a good thing. Relax. Have a Mai Thai, sit in the sun, and chill."

We can point out the math exactly BECAUSE we're confident in it. The fact that Hillary supporters think it's being "shoved in their face" suggests that they know the math is correct and that they're just unhappy with it. They'd like to ignore it, but they can't because the Obama supporters keep pointing it out to 'em. Frustrating, yes, but it's not going away. Neither is the math, and neither is Hillary. It is what it is.

"5. There is little in the discussion that makes people more angry and resentful than telling them that their votes don't count or that their cause is now irrelevant when it is not. Don't do that. Advocating for your candidate, saying why you think yours is great, saying why you think the other isn't the best one vs the Republican is fine. But don't tell someone that their voice is irrelevant."

Um ... no one is saying the votes don't count. They're saying Hillary simply doesn't have enough of them. Granted, neither does Obama, but he at least has a more realistic chance of GETTING enough at this point. Even Hillary backers can't deny this.

"6. The only thing that makes me more angry than telling me the race is over when it is not, is calling me or my candidate something we are not. I am not a Republican. I am not a Neo Con. I am a Democrat. I may be more moderate, I may not agree with you on every issue, but please do not tell me or anyone else that my candidate and I are not Democrats. The Democratic Party has a big umbrulla with a lot of different kinds of people underneath it. If we are going to win, we need to learn to work together."

Get ready to be angry again: This race, for all intents and purposes, IS over. All that is left is for the remaining supers to decide. Are you aware that Obama could still win the nomination even if the remaining supers broke 2:1 for Hillary? So no, she doesn't have to get out now. It just would have looked better on her if she did; because the only way she wins this thing is through some sort of shady back room deal--or something that can be perceived as such.

"7. It is not Hillary or Obama that is dividing us. Nothing THEY are doing is dividing us. It is what WE do that divides. I am not saying that we have to be all hunky-dory and best friends. We can have disagreements, but we have to stop with the division or we will loose."

I guess this is all a matter of perception, also. The fact that there still isn't a nominee divides us. The fact that Hillary seems all too willing to make the GOP argument against Obama under the guise of "the Republicans are gonna do it later anyway" divides us.

Or maybe "division" is the wrong word to use. I don't at all feel "divided" from the Democratic Party. I just don't feel I can ever get behind Hillary again because of her tactics. I live in NY. I voted for Hillary twice. But never again. I will not vote for her in the GE if she gets that far. (Relax, I won't vote for McCain either.) I won't vote for her if she runs for Senate again. I won't even vote for Obama if Hillary is his running mate. She's turned me off just that much. I'll still support Democrats I actually like, though...

Thanks for the opportunity to "divide the party" some more. Whatever the hell THAT means... :eyes:
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