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Reply #106: I must have missed it....When did Israel offer the West Bank Palestinians Israeli democracy?..... [View All]

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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #105
Edited on Fri Jun-03-11 11:32 AM by kayecy
i guess it must be a surprise to you that the israel is in fact a democratic nation for all of its people

Doh! ......for all its people?.......Non-Jews must recognize the Jewish State?...The Law-of-return?.....The state selling land to the JNF?......Discriminatory education budgets?.......Perhaps you meant to write "a democratic nation for one of its people"......Come to think of it, is there such a thing as the Israeli nation?

And since such things do not happen by accident, it can be confidently assumed that the zionists designed it as such (i'm sure if you look hard enough you find the appropriate quotes, judicial rulings etc). can confidently be assumed has been the standard politicians defense and the downfall of gullible people since time began......You cant seriously expect any thinking person to take your assumption as factual support for your argument?......

(i'm sure if you look hard enough you find the appropriate quotes, judicial rulings etc).

But that is just the point.......I have looked, and very hard .......Surely, you, a committed Zionist, holding the morality of Zionism as a given, must have researched what in fact the early Zionist intended by their project?......Or perhaps you simply believe everything that you are told without asking for evidence?

why attempt to throw out a few limited quotes and ignore the whole socialistic side of the political spectrum? did you think i wouldn't notice?

Did I fail to give a complete list of the early Zionists I have read up on?........ Im sorry, I thought a few would be sufficient......Let me give you a more complete list..... Alkalai, Kalisher, Yehudi, Lilienblum, Pinsker, Nordau, Haam, not to mention your left-wing Zionists Syrkin, Yellin, Belkind, Epstein, Luria, Malul, Thon, Weizman, Ben-Zvi, Sprinzak, Ben-Gurion, Zerubavel, Nachman, Syrkin, Borochov and Blumenfeld.......Tell me, which of these early Zionist wrote in support of your claim?..... In fact lets not limit it to Zionists, has ANYONE but you claimed that the invasion of Palestine was justified on the grounds of bringing democracy to the indigenous Arabs?

That is the difference between us....I have no axe to grind......If I discover facts or am presented with a valid argument that Zionism was a moral enterprise.....that Palestinian Arabs had no right to self-determination, then I, too, will be a supporter of Zionism.....You, on the contrary, do have an axe to grind.....As a socialist you have too much to lose to base your judgment on facts.......Like Jabotinsky, you have already made up your mind that Zionism is moral and just.

as far as the Palestinians in the westbank, in case you missed it, they've rejected israeli democracy

I must have missed it....When did Israel offer the West Bank Palestinians Israeli democracy?

.... i personally believe the occuapation is immoral and we have to leave,

I am pleased to hear you say that.....I am puzzled though........What, in your opinion makes Jewish rule over the West-Bank immoral?......Is it the fact that ..... israel doesn't have the manpower nor the will to force them to accept israeli democracy.?.....manpower and will are strange factors to consider in the matter of a moral judgment!

.... unless of course we wait a certain amount of generations and, as in the case of the jews, who also go back generatins, the Palestenians then lose those "greater rights" and the jewish israelis then have the greater connection.....(how many generations must we wait?)

Mmmmm....You asked me that before and I couldnt see what you were getting at.....Let me see if I understand you correctly.....You are asking how many generations we must wait before there can be no practical connection to the land?

Well, if you kept Palestinians out of Palestine for the next 2,000 years, then they would certainly have no connection and they would have no right of return.......If you kept them out for 500 years they would have a minimal connection but still a better claim to a right-of-return than the Zionists......

Tell me....... in what way do the Israelis have greater connection to Palestine than the indigenous people?....How many Israelis can prove they have ANY connection to that part of the world?...You, yourself have said your family became immigrants to Israel because of family suffering and quotas post WW2.........You did not say they left because they felt a great connection to Israel.

Why werent the indigenous residents of Palestine allowed to do the same?......
because life isn't fair,

When the decision to be fair or not to innocent people is in your hands, the decision itself becomes a question of morality.....If I decide to become a squatter in someone elses house, then by your argument, life is unfair and the owners should just move on and leave the house to me....Would my decision be immoral?....Of course it would........The Zionist decision to squat in Palestine and remove Palestinian Arab rights was similarly immoral.

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