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Reply #105: you have to ignore information and reality to make your point.... [View All]

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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. you have to ignore information and reality to make your point....
Edited on Thu Jun-02-11 03:47 PM by pelsar
your write:
And now to examine some of the basic fallacies in your defense of Zionism:

and then you go on to print a few chosen quotes that support your view and then write:

Even if you can show that the early Zionists intended to bring democracy to the Palestinian Arabs, you still need to show that the democratic nation you speak of was intended to be a western-style democratic a state for all its people irrespective of their ethnicity or cultural identity

i guess it must be a surprise to you that the israel is in fact a democratic nation for all of its people- imperfect as it is. And since such things do not happen by accident, it can be confidently assumed that the zionists designed it as such (i'm sure if you look hard enough you find the appropriate quotes, judicial rulings etc).

actually i found your quotes a bit amusing, given the wide variety of opinions and parties that made up the zionists-from mapam to herut. The question I have is, if you are really educated in the zionism why attempt to throw out a few limited quotes and ignore the whole socialistic side of the political spectrum? did you think i wouldn't notice?

anyway i'm not big on quotes proving anything anyway, i prefer the actual events on the ground, and here you have to close your brain and pretend that israel is not an existing working, thriving, improving social democracy to claim that that zionism created an immoral democarcy.

as far as the Palestinians in the westbank, in case you missed it, they've rejected israeli democracy and israel doesn't have the manpower nor the will to force them to accept israeli democracy.They now have their own culture and identity that is different from israeli arabs and as such want their own state. i personally believe the occuapation is immoral and we have to leave, (but not at the expense of reliving the gaza experience along the length and breadth of israel).


as far as the argument of "who has greater rights"-its has no answer......
.I just think that those Palestinians who were born on the land, whose fathers and forefathers were born on the same land have a greater connection.
unless of course we wait a certain amount of generations and, as in the case of the jews, who also go back generatins, the Palestenians then lose those "greater rights" and the jewish israelis then have the greater connection.....(how many generations must we wait?)

thats why its an argument that doesn't have a "right answer" both can claim "rights"


you ask:
Why werent the indigenous residents of Palestine allowed to do the same?.
because life isn't fair, ask the jews and their history, the iranians today, the sudanese, the egyptians, the Libyans, the jordanians, etc etc etc and of course the 100,000 jews left in DP camps after WWII after all the other countries of the world closed off their borders to additional concentration camp immigration. ....... for some residents of Palestine that was a good thing for they get live in a democracy, and for others it wasn't, and i'm sure many are pretty pissed at their grandparents for making the stupid decision of leaving. (for those that did voluntarily-percentages unknown)

and just to emphise the point, the Palestinians in Lebanon and Syria are planning on sunday a major march to the israeli borders and asked that the israeli arabs join in on the israeli side..guess what? the israeli arabs said no.

funny how that works....Arabs living in israel prefer israel, protect israel and reject to aid in the attempts to destroy its democracy....and it all started with zionism (I guess they didn't want to wait centuries as per your claim to live freely....who would have guessed they would forgo hundreds of years of living under dictatorships by their brethren just to live freely under a democracy started by zionists?....shocking!
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