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Reply #61: Incorrect [View All]

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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
61. Incorrect
Edited on Wed Apr-02-08 04:01 PM by aranthus
Do Muslims forced out of India or Hindus forced out of Pakistan in 1947 have the right to return to their land?

The partition of India was consented to by both Indian National Congress (representing the Hindus) and the Muslim League (representing the Muslims, obviously). OTOH, The partition of Palestine was agreed to by the Jews, but imposed upon the Muslims.

As others have pointed out, I think that you have misstated what happened in the Indian subcontinent in 1947.

Assuming that Israel has a right to exist (meaning that the Jewish people have a right to a state of their own), then the Palestinians started the Arab/Israeli Wars as surely as the Germans started World War Two.

Assuming the United States has a right to exist, then the Native Americans started the frontier war with the white settlers as surely as the Germans started World War Two. Isnt it fun when someone takes your logic and follows it to its inescapably stupid conclusion?

The facile argument would be that the Americans have certainly treated the Native Americans as if the were the aggressors. However, the better response is that this is a false analogy for several reasons. First, the European settlers were true colonists, and had no claim to America until well after they arrived and built a country here. The Jews were returning to their homeland, so they weren't colonists. Second, the Jews bought land and were attacked by the Arabs before they ever took Arab land by force. The Europeans came and took what they wanted (excepting Manhattan, of course). That made the Europeans the aggressors. Third, the Native Americans did not go to war with the Europeans to prevent the creation of the United States. The Arabs went to war with the Jews to prevent the creation of a Jewish sovereignty. Finally, it is clear that the Arabs started the fighting with the Jews. It is nowhere near as clear that the Native Americans attacked first in every instance.

1. The UN is not a moral arbiter, so its declarations don't mean anything; 2. You can't legislate rights; they either exist or they don't.

So I guess the US Bill of Rights, being an attempt to legislate rights, is a waste of time, then?

The Bill of Rights does not legislate rights, it merely enumerates some of them. Legislation creates something that does not otherwise exist. The American conception of rights is stated in the Declaration of Independence where it talks about inalienable rights endowed by the Creator. Rights exist by virtue of being human, not because a law says so. Inalienable means that rights can not be taken away. If they could be legislated into existence, then they could be legislated out of existence. You might also want to look at Amendment 9 of the Bill of Rights, which states that the enumeration of rights does not deny or disparage others retained by the people. The drafters understood that rights are a function of humanity, not legislation.
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