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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. talk about ...
They willingly spread the myth that the Assault Weapons Ban keeps machine guns off the streets.

... yer willing spreading of "myths" ... or what some might call "road apples".



(Eek ... I've linked to a pic of horseshit at Ronald Reagan's ranch.)


So pardon me while I "hoot" about your article which uses a VPC study as concrete evidence.

You ever heard of the concepts of primary sources and secondary sources? Didja happen to notice all those footnote numbers in the passages quoted by billbuckhead? Here's what they referred to, with some useful info highlighted:

<1> When Men Murder Women. Violence Policy Center. October 1999.
<2> Tjaden, P. Thoennes, N. Extent, nature, and consequences of intimate partner violence: findings from the national violence against women survey. Washington D.C.: US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics; 2000. NCJ 181867
<3> Rennison C, Welchans S. Intimate Partner Violence. Washington, D.C.: US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics; 2000. NCJ 178247
<4> Iowans Killed in Domestic Abuse Murders: General Analysis of Cases. Crime Victim Assistance Division. Iowa Attorney Generals Office. September 2003.
<5> Gun Homicide: Domestic Demon. Iowans for the Prevention of Gun Violence. January 2000.
<6> Homicide Trends in the US. Intimate homicide and Homicides by relationship and weapon type. Washington D.C.: US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics; 2002. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicid/tables/intweaptab.... and http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm )
<7> Iowans Killed in Domestic Abuse Murders: General Analysis of Cases. Crime Victim Assistance Division. Iowa Attorney Generals Office. September 2003
<8> Bailey J, Kellermann A, Somes G., Banton J, Rivara F, Rshforth N. Risk factors for violent death of women in the home. Archives of internal medicine. 1997; 157: 777-782.
<9> Campbell J, Webster D, Koziol-McLain J, et al. Risk factors for femicide in abusive relationships: Results from a multisite case control study. American Journal of Public Health. 2003;93:1089-1097.
<10> Arbunkle, J. Olson, L Howard, M. Brillman, J. Anctil, C. Sklar, D. Safe at home? Domstic violence and other homicides among women in New Mexico. Annals of Emergency Medicine. 1996; 27:210-215.
<11> Saltzban L, Mercy J, OCarroll P, Rosenberg M, Rhodes P. Weapon involvement and injury outcomes in family and intimate assaults. Journal of the American Medical Association. 1992;267:3043-3047
<12> Violence in America: A public health crisisthe role of firearms: the Violence Prevention Task Force of the Eastern Association for the Surgery of Trauma. Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection and Critical Cre. 1995;38:13-168.
<13> Tolley L. State Domestic Violence and Firearm Laws. Los Angeles: Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence; 2003.
<14> Guns and Domestic Violence: A Deadly Combination. Information Update. The HELP Network. 2003.
Now, whatcha have here is the VPC serving mainly as a convenient secondary source, reporting the findings of the primary sources -- sources like the US Dept. of Justice, y'see.

Whatcha do now is go back to the passages quoted by billbuckhead (or heck, strain yourself and click on the link he gave), and match up any statistics or info that smells fishy to you with their source.

If the source is NOT the VPC or an affiliated or similar organization, let us know what the problem with the source is that, to your mind, invalidates its findings or claims.

'Cause ya see, the VPC study (or any similarly distasteful source) was NOT USED AS CONCRETE EVIDENCE for anything but a minute (and quite readily verifiable) bit of the info in that article -- to be specific, the following:

According to a 1998 Violence Policy Center study, more than 12 times as many females were murdered by a male they knew (1,699 victims) than were killed by male strangers (138 victims).
<text cited to footnote 1>

One study found that 84% of females killed in Iowa between 1996 and 1998 were killed in domestic situations the majority in domestic disputes or murder-suicides.
<text cited to footnote 5>

Arizona, California, Florida, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Texas and Utah have laws that require authorities to seize deadly weapons used in a domestic violence incident or in violation of a protection order.
<text cited to footnote 13>

Victim advocates and prosecutors report that laws on firearm confiscation as part of protection order proceedings and misdemeanor cases vary substantially; enforcement is inconsistent, if not neglectful. State court judges are confused about the reach of the new laws and are thus reluctant to require defendants to relinquish their weapons. Some judges even allow domestic violence respondents to rearm themselves during hunting season. Furthermore, few cases are prosecuted due to lack of adequate coordination between state and local authorities and their federal counterparts at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and the United States Attorneys Offices".
<text cited to footnote 14>
Are we really to believe that you are alleging, let alone believe, that the VPC and/or its friends invented and falsely reported info about the relationship between homicide victims and offenders? info about US state laws? statistics about homicides in Iowa? statements by prosecutors?

Allow me to save you the bother of writing a response, and offer a multiple-choice response for you to choose from:

- gosh, 6 billion three hundred ninety-seven million eight hundred five thousand four hundred forty-four words; are your arms tired?
(we'll call that the red herring option, or what's known in my household as diversionary grooming)

- the VPC is not a credible source
(we'll call that the "proof" by blatant and extremely irrelevant and, in this instance, false assertion option)

- let's talk about how you really just want to take all weapons away from honest, law-abiding, god-fearing, salt of the earth citizens
(we'll call that the straw person option)

- ___________________________________
(okay, I'll give you complete freedom of choice; make up your own weird / wonderful / obnoxious / dumb retort and insert here, if you wish)

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