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Reply #83: could you please try to keep up [View All]

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-16-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. could you please try to keep up

at least with your own end of the conversation?

From my previous post:

Me: Do I prefer a scenario in which there is no dead person to a scenario in which there is a dead person?
(Rhetorical question. The answer really is yes.)

You: you would prefer to see a woman raped than see her successfully defend herself, at least with lethal force.

You chose to make a statement about me.

Your statement is false.

It IS NOT what I said.

I was addressing two SPECIFIC scenarios. I stated a preference for one of them.

In one scenario, someone was killed.
In the other scenario, no one was killed.

On those BARE FACTS, and on those SPECIFIC CRITERIA ALONE, I preferred one scenario over the other.

In point of fact, the two scenarios were quite likely apples and oranges. But they were the choices offered, and I stated a preference.

Your statement is false, because I HAVE NEVER SAID that I would prefer to see a woman raped than defend herself. (Whether such defence is "successful" is entirely irrelevant; the issue is whether I approve of someone defending herself: I can't make approval conditional on the success of the attempt. Really.) Never.

I know stuff that you either don't know or want to pretend doesn't exist.

The overwhelming majority of sexual assaults do not involve any actual risk of death. Even if we consider only REPORTED assaults, the overwhelming majority are committed by people known to the victim.

Those offenders are NOT going to kill their victims. And those victims are NOT going to use "lethal force" to defend themselves against the assault. Period. No matter how rich the fantasy life of those drooling over women shooting up bad guys to defend their virtue. Real women act according to their own needs and priorities and constraints, not gunhead scenarios.

I do not regard killing someone in apprehension of anything less than serious physical injury or death, or when an alternative to doing so is available, to be tolerable in a civilized society. And in civilized societies, it is not tolerated.

Even in uncivilized societies where capital punishment is practised, it is not applied for lesser crimes than homicide. I mean, except in really really uncivilized societies that really aren't part of this discussion.

Sexual assault is not punishable by death. I see absolutely no reason why killing to defend against a sexual assault -- where there are no reasonable grounds to apprehend serious physical injury or death -- should be tolerated.

Sexual assault is an assault. It is a particularly vicious kind of assault, and it is tolerated by a society for very particular reasons. Sexual assault is one part of a whole web of controls imposed on women by patriarchal society.

Encouraging women to kill men attempting to assault them sexually does nothing to address the many serious problems women have in such societies.

And the plain fact is that the men crying crocodile tears for women who are victims of sexual assault and urging all women everywhere to shoot the bastards know perfectly well that the overwhelming majority of women, the overwhelming majority of whose abusers and attackers are people known to them, are not going to do that.

So you know what I see? I see a nice little victim-blaming scenario being set up.

All women have to do is pack heat, and pull trigger, and that whole rape thing will just go away. Women don't want to do that? Well damn, whose fault is it when they are abused and assaulted then, eh?

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