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Reply #7: This objection illustrates something important. [View All]

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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. This objection illustrates something important.
There's a tug-of-war between those wanting to investigate election fraud and those who feel that it's a red herring, distracting from the "more essential" work of overcoming apathy and vote fraud. Both of those positions easily fall into accusation, and so the issue never moves. I feel that both vote fraud (the things you mention) and election fraud (manipulation of the actual voting mechanism, the gadget itself) are in play here. To split into two camps, attempting to suppress the investigation of one because it might hamper the investigation of the other, is nothing but counter-productive. Vote fraud "advocates" (no-one is actually promoting it, eh?) react emotionally when time is "wasted" on election fraud, and vice-versa.

Your entire objection is comprised by the word "facts". Those of us convinced that election fraud happened (in addition to the voter fraud you mention) are insisting that this must be investigated publicly, thoroughly. You, by using the word "facts" in the way you do, are requiring that the investigation we are proposing have already concluded in our favor; that it be factually demonstrated that election fraud occurred before you are willing to admit that it's worth investigating. We propose investigating suspects, whereas you want the case ready for arraignment.

Vote fraud, in this context, is often portrayed as something "everyone knows" occurs. But I submit that buried in the history of voting is a clear recognition that election fraud is also something "everyone knows" about. Election observers, physical ballots, ballot boxes that are hard to open, secret ballots, all of these are mechanism, just like electronic voting is mechanism.

I wish this wasn't so contentious, the contentiousness is what gets me down the most.
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