Reply #16: Unlike Ultramega I actually *talk* to Muslims. More qualified? Yes!

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

And, in high school, my best friend was an Albanian Muslim. I was so taken by how cordial and civilized they were, I nearly converted. That turned out to be a bit of teenage experimentation though, as I am too spiritually claustrophobic to squeezing myself into any organized religion.

First of all, Ultramega, Islam is not a culture. All of these horrible atrocities you have mentioned *would happen whether the cultures involved were Muslim or not*. The cultures of the middle east, west africa, and central asia, have been forged through eons of nearly constant warfare. This is not because of any religion, as it has continued through multiple, even pagan, religions. It is because of environmental and economic factors. The middle east, central asia, and west africa, are mostly flat desert and dry plains. Most continents, Europe being a good example, have plenty of forests, mountain ranges, and, rivers, where, if you look at a map, you'll see boarders have solidified. This is because they offer the defender an advantage. Most of the terrain of the middle east and central asia offers the attacker the advantage. There, the saying, "the best defense is a good offense", is very true. Now add to this the fact that the resource poor (before oil) middle east has historically been a vital trade rout dealing in the wealth (including slaves) of Europe and Asia. Now, not only is there a defensive advantage to being on the offensive, but those nations who are the most mobile and warlike have the advantage of also becoming the most wealthy by seizing or raiding the trade routs of their regional competitors. At this point, everything becomes very, very, Darwinian. This lead to the rise of powerful warlords and a great inequality of wealth. Any society born of such extreme violence and poverty, no matter it's religion, is going to reproduce those extremes in it's culture. Whatever you have, including women, becomes something you can trade for your survival. Again, we're talking survival, here. Trade in your girls now, or you will all starve together later. It is this making of women into property which has formed the present cultural attitude toward women in the mid-east, east africa, and central asia.

It is awful, but it has nothing to do with Islam, and, in fact, if you look at other cultures which have risen out of such desperate poverty and rampant warlordism, such as China, you will see similar atrocities against females. There is a huge women and girl smuggling trade between China and Vietnam. Women and girls are kidnapped or sold by their own families in Vietnam, and have their ankle tendons cut so that they can not run. They are kept in cages until they find a home in a brothel, or are sold to abusive "husbands" as sex slaves. The problem is, of course, exacerbated by China's one child policy, but it is the fact that girls are still considered property, and low labor value, at that, that they are aborted, and often murdered as youth, in such numbers that a vast human smuggling trade can thrive in the first place.

In short, know what you are talking about before you go shooting your mouth off and whipping up prejudices. We get enough of that from FOX news. And I think Muslims are having a hard enough time getting by in this country without help from you.

P.S. - I have not met a single Muslim who even attempted to excuse the atrocities you have mentioned.