Democrats have sacrificed WAY too much to bad gun control policies already. (Reply #79)

In the discussion thread: Beto was really hurt by "Hell yes we're...... [View all]

Tue Nov 5, 2019, 03:07 AM

k2qb3 (374 posts)

79. Democrats have sacrificed WAY too much to bad gun control policies already.

There are millions of otherwise liberal people, certainly people with no other strong ties to the right, that will never vote Democrat because of the gun issue.

The real problem, which goes all the way back to the NFA in 1934, is the exemptions in all our gun laws for agents of the government operating domestically. Those exemptions are offensive to the letter and the spirit of the constitution and have completely poisoned the debate on what is or is not an appropriate civilian weapon.

People won't comply with a confiscation order. States won't comply, LEOs won't comply. It won't be everyone who ignores it, just enough to ensure enforcement gets expensive, bloody and tragic enough to swing public opinion the other way again.

It's a pipe dream. With extremely high opportunity costs.

It always has been.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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163 replies	Author	Time	Post
Beto was really hurt by "Hell yes we're...... [View all]	Prosper	Nov 2019	OP
Even people who hate guns started to distance themselves from him.	aikoaiko	Nov 2019	#1
Not me.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#3
"There's zero reasons to own those sort of guns"	Prosper	Nov 2019	#14
So, if it comes down to your life or that of an attacker	customerserviceguy	Nov 2019	#37
I think most people could not pull the trigger	Prosper	Nov 2019	#55
Yours is an accurate example of 'absurdum ad reductio.' Again.	LanternWaste	Nov 2019	#70
How many times a year does the scenario of "it coming	NoMoreRepugs	Nov 2019	#78
One can tell if a person is concerned about his and his family's safety by looking at the doors	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#81
An AR-15 is perfect for home self-defense or defense of others in many situations.	aikoaiko	Nov 2019	#20
"a single 5.56 round can stop a threatening person"	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#21
Please allow me to explain a few things so that you might understand my position better.	aikoaiko	Nov 2019	#24
I don't think "less energy" means much in regards to humans getting hit by them.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#32
You're right. No one uses legal machine guns to kill people.	aikoaiko	Nov 2019	#35
What is your definition of a "common rifle"?	Marengo	Nov 2019	#58
This, I guess?	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#62
You must be joking. Are you seriously arguing a tube fed, manually lever action is as effective...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#64
Pretty sure a human is equally as dead or incapacitated if hit by a bullet from one.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#65
The metric is neutralizing the threat, and the AR15 is more effective at achieving that than a...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#68
You neutralize a threat by putting a bullet in it.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#72
Hahahahahaha! "Minor operating differences"????	Marengo	Nov 2019	#82
Never claimed I knew much about guns.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#85
You admit you are not knowledgeable, but expect to be taken seriously when you posit a...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#89
They shoot and kill criminals. In this circumstance, that's all you need to know.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#93
How can you not understand that in a self defense role the AR is SUPERIOR to a lever action rifle?	Marengo	Nov 2019	#99
Why are you so obtuse?	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#110
If volume of accurate and effective fire is your metric of power, the AR is clearly the superior...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#132
Why do you need "multiple" rounds fired at once to stop a criminal?	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#139
How often do you shoot? What type of firearm do you shoot? Have you shot an AR platform...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#140
Another example of one individual armed with an AR15 defeating multiple armed intruders, one...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#133
More gun-lover BS. Christ, this is not a war zone. Get real.	Hoyt	Nov 2019	#127
If it were not for folks like you Hoyt, many people probably wouldn't be armed at all...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#134
More gunner BS, taking things out of context to protect your gunz.	Hoyt	Nov 2019	#137
The only relevant context is that if folks like you didn't rob others homes, it's likely fewer...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#142
Is that why you are armed and promote gunz?	Hoyt	Nov 2019	#144
Having had two of my homes burglarized, in part. Has the possibility of encountering an armed...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#149
You'll get hit by lightning before you get an answer..I asked the same question..Zip	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#152
It appears most experts say the shotgun is the most effective long gun for home defense	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#91
A shotgun is heavier, harder to aim, more destructive to things around the target, and has	LongtimeAZDem	Nov 2019	#103
I don't think you know much about shotguns	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#109
I own three, and I've been shooting since I was 6. I can handle my SXP with no problem.	LongtimeAZDem	Nov 2019	#117
Then you would know that what you said previously wasn't accurate.	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#118
A 12-gauge loaded with slugs would kick the woman in the video I posted through the wall	LongtimeAZDem	Nov 2019	#119
Why would you have a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 3" magnum rifled slugs for home defense?	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#120
If you honestly believe she needs a firearm for home defense, then why would you limit her	LongtimeAZDem	Nov 2019	#121
Because for the following	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#123
Best of luck to you both	LongtimeAZDem	Nov 2019	#126
Everybody's situation is different. There is no one correct answer.	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#129
I decided on a pistol caliber carbine as the primary for home defense.	Marengo	Nov 2019	#135
I've considered that myself and might still do so.	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#143
The ballistics of an AR 15 are similar to the guns available	Prosper	Nov 2019	#56
The AR-15 can fire anything from .22 cal. to shotgun shells	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#94
Not "out of the box" ..and certainly not w/out changing uppers & barrels	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#111
It's becomeing more and more popular for people to build the AR-15 they want.	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#112
It would come assembled..."out of the box"	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#114
There is that option for people with money. To buy one preassembled.	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#115
Where do you buy your parts....50%...send me a link.	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#122
Start with Palmetto State Armory	Devil Child	Nov 2019	#148
I know of Palmetto....on their site they don't claim to be 50% lower priced	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#151
My error.	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#161
Got'cha	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#163
Two men armed with handguns enter an occupied home, woman with AR15 kills one and drives...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#57
You're just nitpicking.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#63
Nope, the example effectively destroys your argument, but I understand your need to minimize it	Marengo	Nov 2019	#66
How? What did you prove?	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#71
For a strawman to exist, a valid point must be made. You failed in that regard, and I failed to	Marengo	Nov 2019	#83
The point was that other, less devastating guns can be used effectively for protection.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#86
How does someone who proudly admits to lacking knowledge have the credibility to declare...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#90
You proved an AR-15 can kill a criminal.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#92
Nope, you argued handguns are the equal of an AR in a self defense situation. In the citation, ONE..	Marengo	Nov 2019	#98
You have ZERO evidence that the same thing couldn't have happened with a Winchester.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#108
LOL Wut? We know exactly how this "played out", and how it did is not favorable to your argument.	Marengo	Nov 2019	#131
You have a news piece. It's not the same as actually being there and it never will be.	BlueStater	Nov 2019	#138
They are real-life incidents that suggest your claim of "redundancy" may be unfounded. A claim...	Marengo	Nov 2019	#141
I totally agree	mainstreetonce	Nov 2019	#101
I liked his condemning "assault weapons." I get, you like them.	Hoyt	Nov 2019	#10
I think that the RFing came long before Beto made his comments in the September debate.	TexasTowelie	Nov 2019	#22
Beto had more advantages than most. Money, media darling, RFK aura, good exposure from senate race.	aikoaiko	Nov 2019	#38
I'm certain that you would like for me to answer	TexasTowelie	Nov 2019	#39
I, for one, have no idea what you're talking about.	cwydro	Nov 2019	#47
Are you talking about the Sirota's criticism about Beto's donations from oil company employees?	aikoaiko	Nov 2019	#52
Several have asked the same question,	Tipperary	Nov 2019	#69
Beto's campaign woes were not the result of ratfucking.	cwydro	Nov 2019	#44
Bullshit. His poll numbers didn't change much after that statement.	dalton99a	Nov 2019	#2
Exactly! In my book, Beto became an even more attractive candidate after his strong anti-gun stand.	InAbLuEsTaTe	Nov 2019	#12
Copied " Bullshit. His poll numbers didn't change much after that statement."	Prosper	Nov 2019	#16
You made the assertion, you provide the evidence.	dalton99a	Nov 2019	#17
What hurt Beto?	Prosper	Nov 2019	#18
Pardon me because I try to avoid using this language,	TexasTowelie	Nov 2019	#34
"Beto O'Rourke unfazed by weak poll numbers" Aritcle published 06/09/2019 01:09 PM EDT	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#60
But he got no benefit from it..even amoungst Democratic Primary voters..it didn't help	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#150
Reads like something's from an NRA "we're not that bad" propaganda operation.	BannonsLiver	Nov 2019	#4
This area here is starting to look and sound like 2016 and we know	Eliot Rosewater	Nov 2019	#8
Beto has got time. He is 47 years old. I thnk there will be more opportunites..	Stuart G	Nov 2019	#5
+1	MustLoveBeagles	Nov 2019	#6
+1 -K&R	onetexan	Nov 2019	#30
Agreed. That applause line felt good at time but it wasn't worth it.	brush	Nov 2019	#7
Absolutely not true. It wasn't an "applause line" nt	Laura PourMeADrink	Nov 2019	#25
Applause line or not, it wasn't worth it. He's out and there was much hope for him.	brush	Nov 2019	#42
"wasn't worth it" implies conscious purpose. He expressed	Laura PourMeADrink	Nov 2019	#51
Beto was struggling in the polls as far back as May	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#61
No he wasn't. Beto has won the "purity" award for the Dem 2020 primary season.	McCamy Taylor	Nov 2019	#9
If we don't win	DownriverDem	Nov 2019	#11
He certainly didn't do himself any favors with that stance.	cwydro	Nov 2019	#13
Beto is young. He has lots more opportunities, such as being VP	onetexan	Nov 2019	#31
Time will tell.	cwydro	Nov 2019	#43
Sheez a bit judgmental aren't we	onetexan	Nov 2019	#48
Not a judgment, simply an opinion.	cwydro	Nov 2019	#49
If anything, Beto should have gotten a boost from the more ardent pro-control types.	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#15
I thought he would too	wildflower	Nov 2019	#96
Post removed	Post removed	Nov 2019	#19
Post removed	Post removed	Nov 2019	#23
Hi TexasTowlie	MustLoveBeagles	Nov 2019	#28
I'm undecided at this point.	TexasTowelie	Nov 2019	#33
I always thought that Texas was a long shot for us even with Beto in the race	MustLoveBeagles	Nov 2019	#41
Wow, bitter much?	cwydro	Nov 2019	#46
There was absolutely zero bullshit	Laura PourMeADrink	Nov 2019	#26
+1	MustLoveBeagles	Nov 2019	#29
Beto was right to say that. We need to start taking guns and removing them from the streets.	LonePirate	Nov 2019	#27
'We need to start taking guns'	Celerity	Nov 2019	#75
Except your commonsense, realistic gun legislation won't solve the problem or even come close.	LonePirate	Nov 2019	#76
So work to repeal the 2nd Amendment, I hope you are younger than me (I am 23) as I will not see	Celerity	Nov 2019	#77
He should have stayed out of this one, but was pressured on social media	Baked Potato	Nov 2019	#36
bullshit.	jcgoldie	Nov 2019	#40
Evidence?	Voltaire2	Nov 2019	#45
It was an act of desperation.	hack89	Nov 2019	#50
This.	cwydro	Nov 2019	#53
Beto has absolutely positively the right frame of mind	Prosper	Nov 2019	#54
It can't be a radical complaint if it's varified...you said Beto verified it	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#158
I agree with his message and I don't think civilians should own AR-15s, AK-47s, etc.	OliverQ	Nov 2019	#59
I thank him for saying it.	TidalWave46	Nov 2019	#67
Where is the evidence of this claim?	Joe941	Nov 2019	#73
There is none. Polls were on Beto's side nationally and in Texas	liskddksil	Nov 2019	#74
Wait, polls were on his side?	Tipperary	Nov 2019	#80
This thread is referring to a specific policy of mandatory buybacks that Beto proposed	liskddksil	Nov 2019	#87
But that support did not translate support for Beto	Kaleva	Nov 2019	#95
Huh?	Tipperary	Nov 2019	#97
I don't know how to respond to this one? nt	liskddksil	Nov 2019	#106
I asked why did he quit.	Tipperary	Nov 2019	#107
+1. It is revisionist bullshit	dalton99a	Nov 2019	#88
Democrats have sacrificed WAY too much to bad gun control policies already.	k2qb3	Nov 2019	#79
I said it before...	myohmy2	Nov 2019	#84
Reality backs that sentiment up	Cosmocat	Nov 2019	#102
He was hurt by the media because he is not courting	robbedvoter	Nov 2019	#100
Beto took a bold and long-overdue step forward for rational gun safety	dlk	Nov 2019	#104
He might be selected vice-president candidate	Katalino	Nov 2019	#105
welcome to DU	gopiscrap	Nov 2019	#116
Who knows	MustLoveBeagles	Nov 2019	#124
No. nt	Tipperary	Nov 2019	#130
I'll decalre Now... No.....he won't be.	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#159
I know this was political suicide for Beto...	sacto95834	Nov 2019	#113
Your view may not be as unpopular as you think	MustLoveBeagles	Nov 2019	#125
Popular here, except for a few gunners.	Hoyt	Nov 2019	#128
But it didn't increase support in the Democratic Primary voter base outside of here.	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#153
Ah, go oil your gunz, Old Geezer. You'll get more agreement on the Discussionist.	Hoyt	Nov 2019	#154
My stuff is fine....I'm obsessive about maintenance... ATV's, trucks, boat, anything	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#155
More out of context links from a gunner.	Hoyt	Nov 2019	#156
"More out of context links from a gunner."	AncientGeezer	Nov 2019	#157
So why hasn't Tulsi been hurt by any of her comments??	Blue_Tires	Nov 2019	#136
There is a phone conference tonight for Beto suppoters	Gothmog	Nov 2019	#145
This the first I've heard of this	MustLoveBeagles	Nov 2019	#146
I miss the call but here is a story about this call	Gothmog	Nov 2019	#147
Thank you	MustLoveBeagles	Nov 2019	#162
This message was self-deleted by its author	Tipperary	Nov 2019	#160

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