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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 20, 2019, 04:18 PM

12. You added the word vengeance. Per usual, it's an oversimplification.


And now we're resorting to the "vengeance against white people" accusation that gets trotted out so frequently when black people assert any opinion left of President Obama.

Here was my phrase:

"honestly accounting for crimes against humanity that continue to produce unfavorable results."

Your last post continues to focus on the financial aspects of this, rather than grappling with how this history of racial oppression affects current and future directions of public policy. In some cases, as in Charlottesville today, we are actually having this conversation, where black people are standing up against the noxiousness of having public statues paying tribute to white supremacy in their own communities.

I don't know, but I would guess that Japanese-Americans who pursued justice after internment were not just looking for $15,000 or whatever the final figure was. They, most likely, sought official recognition that the U.S. government was in the wrong by causing them undue suffering, although some sort of settlement was apparently reached. Similarly, the settlement of treaty rights issues by First Nations in Wisconsin and Minnesota were likely related to justice as well as the practical ability to harvest fish and wildlife according to the 19th century tresties. Is it your opinion that these settlements should not have been pursued because other groups might have grievances? I do not feel that way. No group of people should be denied the opportunity to pursue justice for crimes against humanity, if it feels that there is a collective historical case for justice.

I agree with you that women across the world are being denied justice and many legal solutions should be pursued, whether collective or individual. I don't think it's a fair argument at all to say that unless collective justice is offered to women, collective justice should not be offered to black people. Pitting disenfranchised groups against each other is the oldest strategy of all when it comes to oppressive systems, and a commitment to actually listening and hearing each other is the antidote. I agree that sexism is a global problem that causes great harm to us all, and as I just said, I am open to and often actively support local and global action for gender equity. By contrast, in this conversation, you have expressed no openness whatsoever to addressing the crimes against humanity that have been perpetrated against black people.

This lack of openness is very common, so it's not surprising to me, but I think you should own this opinion for what it is. It's fair to disagree with me, of course, but you should disagree with what I actually said. And maybe we should go back to the OP as well, to ground opinions on what Elizabeth Warren was interested in doing, opening a conversation about the many models for truth and reconciliation and/or reparations. I'll repeat one more time: it's not just based on payments to individuals based on enslavement, and we shouldn't prejudge the results without having the conversation.

But the majority of white people and even POC likely feel closer to your view than mine, so you can take comfort that your point of view has plenty of popular support.
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Arrow 13 replies Author Time Post
brooklynite Mar 2019 OP
BlueWI Mar 2019 #1
customerserviceguy Mar 2019 #3
BlueWI Mar 2019 #4
Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #5
BlueWI Mar 2019 #7
Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #8
BlueWI Mar 2019 #9
Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #11
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply You added the word vengeance. Per usual, it's an oversimplification.
BlueWI Mar 2019 #12
InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #2
WeekiWater Mar 2019 #6
Skidmore Mar 2019 #10
Hortensis Mar 2019 #13
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