2016 Postmortem

senz

(11,945 posts)

179. The OP holds up an ideal and shows how a candidate falls short

Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:59 PM

Nov 2015

of that ideal. That's fair because we're trying to make a choice. Assessing the candidates is the correct thing for us to do at this stage of the game.

But your suggestion had nothing to do with ideals and assessment. You advocated opposition between two liberal politicians. Don't know if you're aware of this, but Bernie likes Obama and says so frequently, even though he will admit that he doesn't like some of Obama's choices. That's okay, too.

In fact, and I wish I could say this to ALL Hillary supporters, you don't have to approve of everything she does. You can prefer her for your own reasons, but that doesn't mean you're a clone of hers. I'd think more highly of Hillary supporters if they could admit that some of what she does is unsavory, even though they support her.

This is probably more of a reply than you wanted, lol.

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Hillary is not a Democrat, she's a Moderate Republican like Obama and Bill [View all] AZ Progressive Nov 2015 OP

That explains her inability to take substantive positions on no brainer issues AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #1

"Very liberal" voters in Iowa prefer Hillary over Bernie (48% to 30%) Cali_Democrat Nov 2015 #2

Then they're supporting a moderate Republican Armstead Nov 2015 #3

The vast majority of people who identify themselves as Republican despise Hillary and Obama Cali_Democrat Nov 2015 #12

The redefining of every aspect of life. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #17

Because personality and team allegiance trumps issues Armstead Nov 2015 #19

GOPers despise Obama because of issues Cali_Democrat Nov 2015 #34

You have to seperate Republicans and issues Armstead Nov 2015 #47

Yet he gave them more than they dared ask for, and permanently so AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #108

these people would be tea baggers,not republicans. wendylaroux Nov 2015 #26

So the 48% of people who identify themselves as very liberal in Iowa and support Hillary Cali_Democrat Nov 2015 #35

whatever you say wendylaroux Nov 2015 #39

Most delusional post in the last month SCantiGOP Nov 2015 #52

really? wendylaroux Nov 2015 #54

Yes, they do SCantiGOP Nov 2015 #68

So, like most Hil voters it's not about the issues then? elehhhhna Nov 2015 #116

I agree. thucythucy Nov 2015 #121

Nobody believes you EVER were considering Sanders ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #153

I believe him. thucythucy Nov 2015 #209

Do you believe Clinton when she says she's a progmoderate? ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #213

Of course we don't know how they are defining "very liberal". nt dflprincess Nov 2015 #172

No, and no. It's the Democratic Party and she has been a loyal Democrat for decades. George II Nov 2015 #165

Bill and Hillary helped push politics to the right AZ Progressive Nov 2015 #6

Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #8

She is to Bills right AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #97

Voted to Hide that garbage UglyGreed Nov 2015 #118

I just love how the "jury" members jump and down when a post they don't like gets hidden. ronnykmarshall Nov 2015 #154

This was a personal attack UglyGreed Nov 2015 #188

Oops....another inconvenient truth - thanks! George II Nov 2015 #164

And of course you are wrong, she is a hard core liberal. these RW talking points Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #4

Oh my eyes! Phlem Nov 2015 #126

She will still represent the people of the US. Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #128

But mostly Goldman Sachs first. Phlem Nov 2015 #135

No substance to RW talking points. Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #144

I see your ridiculousness know no bounds. Phlem Nov 2015 #146

Hows about this substance? Phlem Nov 2015 #149

You're wasting your time providing facts and substance... Yurovsky Nov 2015 #186

At least this one went silent. The others Phlem Nov 2015 #192

I spend my time on functional activity. Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #212

She's not a "hard core liberal." She's an oligarch. And you support her. senz Nov 2015 #194

Oh, really you say she is an oligarch, interesting, ruling by a few, wow. Where do you get Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #220

An Anti-LABOR, Free Trading, Deregulating, Wall Street loving "hard core Libral"? bvar22 Nov 2015 #197

why is Hillary a better option? optimist.spencer Nov 2015 #202

Proud, Strong, progmoderate, last I heard! ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #214

Bullhockey! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #5

But ... butt ... ronnykmarshall Nov 2015 #158

That chart looks like those put out by Libertarians. senz Nov 2015 #195

I asked you not to PM me but you PM'd me anyway. senz Nov 2015 #196

It's to the point that Obamacare is considered liberal but was actually Mitt Romneys healthcare plan AZ Progressive Nov 2015 #7

What point..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #9

And when did HRC marry Barack Obama? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #11

"Mitt Romney's healthcare plan". The one Bernie voted yes on? JaneyVee Nov 2015 #18

I'd suggest you read a little bit about Sanders position and role in the Obamacare debate Armstead Nov 2015 #22

How did he vote? JaneyVee Nov 2015 #23

I'd suggest you read....etc. Armstead Nov 2015 #30

Reading and research? WTF is that! Phlem Nov 2015 #127

Please supply the list of elected federal GOP members dsc Nov 2015 #10

The- ruffburr Nov 2015 #13

neither is bernie saturnsring Nov 2015 #14

a. Nonsense b. randys1 Nov 2015 #15

Unless you are opposed to all Capitalism VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #55

Definitions are easy to manipulate, my point is simple. randys1 Nov 2015 #61

That is not my definition...its theirs... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #62

This is just getting sad now. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #16

Sad. But amusing in a way. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #25

I'm genuinely starting to feel bad. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #28

So, Bernie is a relic from the 1950's? NurseJackie Nov 2015 #20

Bernie is the new Estes Kefauver postatomic Nov 2015 #180

Estes Kefauver was a great man Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #191

No, a "relic" from the pre-DLC, even pre-Reagan, days. senz Nov 2015 #181

This is just painful mythology Nov 2015 #21

Try to convince todays Republicans with that bull shit n/t doc03 Nov 2015 #24

Sounds like Fox News posting here all to often FloridaBlues Nov 2015 #27

Bullshit still_one Nov 2015 #29

Brought to you by Fox News leftofcool Nov 2015 #31

Not quite EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #32

Bullshit.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #56

bullshit EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #89

You are incorrect on her stances...but you know that don't you? Evergreen Emerald Nov 2015 #124

I'm not EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #184

you are spot on Locrian Nov 2015 #207

FFS - I'm a Bernie supporter who finds this absurd onenote Nov 2015 #33

+1 Cali_Democrat Nov 2015 #40

Thank you for interjecting a little Skidmore Nov 2015 #41

Indeed. lovemydog Nov 2015 #45

Fonzie was so cool (before that) lol. BootinUp Nov 2015 #64

HA! sheshe2 Nov 2015 #75

Yup, sure has. nt BootinUp Nov 2015 #49

We dont have to say that....Bernie himself says it... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #59

So if Bernie was to end up with the nomination would you refuse to support him? onenote Nov 2015 #74

Well said mcar Nov 2015 #79

Uh try a little research. New Democrats = Third Way. Phlem Nov 2015 #133

And are all the folks that supported and worked for Bill Clinton onenote Nov 2015 #148

OK then denial. Phlem Nov 2015 #151

Exactly what am in denial about? onenote Nov 2015 #155

"This forum has jumped the shark and then some." tammywammy Nov 2015 #178

sad sad sad!!!!! alot wendylaroux Nov 2015 #36

You should inform the BBC, The New York Times lovemydog Nov 2015 #37

+1 BootinUp Nov 2015 #48

Bill and Hillary and the President are Democrats. Skidmore Nov 2015 #38

+++10000 VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #66

i think these kinds of discussions show restorefreedom Nov 2015 #42

well said. n/t retrowire Nov 2015 #86

:) nt restorefreedom Nov 2015 #169

I think this is starting to dawn on party stalwarts, and it scares them. frylock Nov 2015 #167

yup. the party is over heh. nt restorefreedom Nov 2015 #168

I think Bill, Hillary and Obama are moderate democrats (nt) bigwillq Nov 2015 #43

You can think it.....doesnt make it true.. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #67

I plead guilty bigwillq Nov 2015 #76

Birds of a feather, and all that ... Scuba Nov 2015 #44

And Sanders honeymooned in the Soviet Union. Renew Deal Nov 2015 #60

George Wallace, whippersnapper HomerRamone Nov 2015 #119

Okay I'll bite. It's George Wallace. jhart3333 Nov 2015 #125

I remember him Renew Deal Nov 2015 #147

This has been debunked numerous times. Sanders was there representing a group of women. DhhD Nov 2015 #131

Hillary is a Democrat. Bill is a Democrat. Bernie Sanders is no Democrat. bravenak Nov 2015 #46

Thank you! NurseJackie Nov 2015 #57

Over and over! You can count on me to say it! bravenak Nov 2015 #63

Right here with ya... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #69

Well, I did feel the Bern. It was not that awesome. bravenak Nov 2015 #85

Bill and Hillary are DOMAcrats. Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #77

And Bernie is a mass incarcadindependent. bravenak Nov 2015 #91

Thank you, for letting me know I should never take anything you Lil Missy Nov 2015 #50

Obama is not a moderate republican book_worm Nov 2015 #51

Then why did he say it? zipplewrath Nov 2015 #110

Then WTF did he PUSH TPA so hard, and use his REPUBLICAN friends to pass it? cascadiance Nov 2015 #189

Risible. Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #53

So, I guess there are 20 M Republicans in the Democratic Party as well? brooklynite Nov 2015 #58

No, the Democratic Party has moved too far rightward. TDale313 Nov 2015 #65

How do you figure? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #71

Well, that's what she said herself. She doesn't view herself as a Liberal, nor do many other people. sabrina 1 Nov 2015 #70

She said she's not a Democrat and that she's a moderate Republican? onenote Nov 2015 #82

Your thread was alerted. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2015 #72

.. mcar Nov 2015 #73

Another Tea Party Purity Test thread. MrWendel Nov 2015 #78

This post nails it. We are where we are. Broward Nov 2015 #80

This smacks of desperation. MineralMan Nov 2015 #81

Good post. Very true. PatrickforO Nov 2015 #83

And yet the polls of Democratic voters are running in her favor Gothmog Nov 2015 #84

Reagan Democrat? L0oniX Nov 2015 #87

LOL, best satire I've seen today. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #88

The 'DLC' card is SO tired. wyldwolf Nov 2015 #90

Bernie is not a Democrat. SansACause Nov 2015 #92

So if Bernie gets the nod, the superdelegates will all go home without voting? AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #95

How? SansACause Nov 2015 #99

By winning more state delegates AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #100

You misunderstand the process. SansACause Nov 2015 #106

You misunderstand the process AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #111

Sigh. SansACause Nov 2015 #138

Bernie has none? Beast Boy Nov 2015 #174

"By winning more state delegates" brooklynite Nov 2015 #156

Nah, they're Democrats. Maedhros Nov 2015 #93

When will Hillary ditch the right wing beliefs and join the Democratic Party? AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #94

When will Bernie ditch the far left and join the Democratic party? wyldwolf Nov 2015 #96

He is barely to the left of center AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #104

He's way left of Center but more importantly, admittedly NOT a Democrat wyldwolf Nov 2015 #105

Welcome to the 21st century. Where did you come from? The 1960's? n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #98

Can I join the game? ... Hillary isn't human. CaptainTruth Nov 2015 #101

that story... wyldwolf Nov 2015 #107

BINGO!!!! Ferd Berfel Nov 2015 #102

OK you hate Hillary, WE GET IT already Skittles Nov 2015 #103

That's how I see the Clintons and Obama. nt valerief Nov 2015 #109

That's why Sanders won't win. lovemydog Nov 2015 #177

X10! zentrum Nov 2015 #112

Yes she UglyGreed Nov 2015 #113

Okay. That went well. Now let's all define hip hop. lovemydog Nov 2015 #114

A Lot Of People Don't Seem To Understand What You're Saying. NonMetro Nov 2015 #115

This is idiotic flamebait redstateblues Nov 2015 #117

Up is down, left is right, no is yes...... Sheepshank Nov 2015 #120

Boom! Phlem Nov 2015 #122

K&R! Phlem Nov 2015 #123

I doubt FDR, JFK or LBJ would pass your "progressive" litmus test if they were alive today. thucythucy Nov 2015 #129

nice post. nt BootinUp Nov 2015 #130

Just to be clear: thucythucy Nov 2015 #141

One of my pet peeves around here and the tubes in general BootinUp Nov 2015 #175

posts like the OP betray a serious lack of knowledge on the Democratic party. wyldwolf Nov 2015 #134

I take almost nothing I see on DU literally. I refuse to believe people actually believe JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #162

Hillary is a Democrat, I will be voting for a Democrat in the DNC primary. Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #132

Hillary like Bill and Obama!!!?? lobodons Nov 2015 #136

Bernie has actually said "I am not a Democrat" oberliner Nov 2015 #137

Exactly. SansACause Nov 2015 #140

Because maybe a lot of Democrats will decide he reflects what they want. onenote Nov 2015 #163

Because Bernie represents true democratic values fbc Nov 2015 #205

So will a lot of other people if Hillary Clinton is the nominee. fbc Nov 2015 #204

People will decide not to be Democrats? oberliner Nov 2015 #216

True Dat. RoccoR5955 Nov 2015 #139

Hillary's to the right of Obama, and Obama... MannyGoldstein Nov 2015 #142

No True Scotsman fallacy oberliner Nov 2015 #143

There ya go !!!! ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #145

Bernie should run against Obama. JoePhilly Nov 2015 #150

Sure, let's have a little more divisiveness. senz Nov 2015 #161

Isn't that the point of the OP? JoePhilly Nov 2015 #171

The OP holds up an ideal and shows how a candidate falls short senz Nov 2015 #179

You give the OP too much credit. JoePhilly Nov 2015 #187

I think you're being disingenuous. senz Nov 2015 #193

Let's see last time I checked my registration I'm a Democrat ronnykmarshall Nov 2015 #152

Obama may not be perfect, but he's a damn sight better than the Clintons. senz Nov 2015 #157

The DLC for YEARS kept claiming they were right due to Clinton's presidency. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #159

And another big factor in the DLC's rise to power was the Koch Brothers funding... cascadiance Nov 2015 #190

One word relayerbob Nov 2015 #160

so very true, but don't expect ignorant righties to figure that out stupidicus Nov 2015 #166

Cool. Story... SharpProgress Nov 2015 #170

Everyone here who's sensitive should remember that its the Hillary posters who questioned Bernie AZ Progressive Nov 2015 #173

I think your post is ridiculous nonsense. C'mon. Get a grip. You're out in TeaLeft field. RBInMaine Nov 2015 #176

Only if Abe Lincoln was "TeaLeft." senz Nov 2015 #182

Points for citing her neocon status. n/t cprise Nov 2015 #183

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means... Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2015 #185

name me one "true Democrat" President since FDR. nt kelliekat44 Nov 2015 #198

Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #199

But has Bernie ever said he is a Democrat? Sheepshank Nov 2015 #200

Ha! " build and strengthen the party" LOL fbc Nov 2015 #203

nope...he is about to do the party enough damage that it will take 20 years to repair Sheepshank Nov 2015 #208

Sorry, it is the compromising moderates that are the dinosaurs fbc Nov 2015 #210

Interesting (but unrelated) post. You should start a new OP with that. :) n/t Sheepshank Nov 2015 #211

How so? cui bono Nov 2015 #217

That explains her popularity with establishment democrats fbc Nov 2015 #201

Then and now HassleCat Nov 2015 #206

+100000000 n/t whathehell Nov 2015 #215

Proud to be the 100th rec! Dustlawyer Nov 2015 #218

Clinton is a moderate Democrat Tarc Nov 2015 #219