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CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
28. He's following the a similar trajectory as Obama (but slightly better)
Wed Sep 9, 2015, 03:04 PM
Sep 2015

Sanders is behind Clinton by seven points, currently, in Iowa. At this same point in the run up to the 2008 Iowa caucuses--Obama was not doing as well against Clinton.

That is key. It's significant. Obama won the Iowa caucuses--but Sanders is doing better than Obama was.

I think Sanders is on a trajectory to obliterate Clinton's campaign. I think that is why the Biden run has been floated as a trial balloon. Hillary has lost 20 points in Iowa since May. This is incredibly significant, because the polls in these early primary states matter the most. This is where the campaigns are in full swing--with ads, public appearances, and full marketing campaigns locked and loaded.

That is revealing--for a candidate to put all of their fire power behind their campaign--and to lose 20 points to a candidate who is largely being ignored by the media.

I think the idea of Biden running is being floated --to gage how his candidacy might affect the Dem numbers. Would he take away from Clinton and weaken her further OR would Biden siphon off liberal-base votes from Sanders and prop up Clinton? Those questions are still unanswered. The DNC wants one of their own in the White House, and definitely not Sanders, that is clear.

The trajectory of this race, especially when it comes to Clinton dynamics, are almost identical to the 2008 primary. Clinton was (in 2007-2008) winning handily in national polls. She looked unbeatable. And when you looked at polls in states with later primaries, she was winning by large margins. However, as the campaigning heated up in states with impending primaries--Clinton's numbers began to sink with her challenger (Obama) gaining. It appears, at least in Iowa and NH, that we're seeing a replay of those exact dynamics.

For this to happen again--with a candidate like Sanders, who is ignored by the media--is really telling. I don't think the voting states are buying her inevitability. I think this reveals just how weak and vulnerable the Clinton candidacy is.

I'm in Iowa and I can tell you that there is very little enthusiasm for her. When you run again--you're either going to have renewed enthusiasm among the electorate or a "Oh, it's you again" fatigue surrounding the candidate. I definitely feel the latter, when it comes to Clinton--among the public.

The electorate has aged and fewer younger voters are impressed with her, especially with Sanders in the mix, a candidate who appeals to the base and to younger supporters.

Just my take on things...

Not high, but better than before and improving whatthehey Sep 2015 #1
I'm more optimistic. Went from longshot to maybe. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #2
Bernie has a considerably higher upside hifiguy Sep 2015 #17
50/50 this far out. HooptieWagon Sep 2015 #3
I agree. I think he has a pretty good shot against the machine. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #5
At this point, I'd say 35 - 40 percent. Armstead Sep 2015 #4
agreed Capn Sunshine Sep 2015 #31
Gotta go 90% Half-Century Man Sep 2015 #6
I wouldn't predict until after the first debate. Who knows, O'Malley could do such a great job seaglass Sep 2015 #7
That's why I said "at the moment". Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #8
OK, I don't have any evidence to predict now, only feelings and that seems like a stupid basis seaglass Sep 2015 #9
That's fine. I'm not chiding you. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #10
But Sanders isn't the ABH candidate. Fawke Em Sep 2015 #19
Yes. It's so important to stress that Bernie's support is overwhelmingly positive RufusTFirefly Sep 2015 #26
25% chance of winning IA; 40% chance of winning NH; 10% chance of winning SC; downhill from there brooklynite Sep 2015 #11
You could be right. But, I don't think so. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #13
His challenge is turning rally crowds and polling into actual votes... brooklynite Sep 2015 #16
Rally crowds is his advantage in Iowa. ieoeja Sep 2015 #18
...and this is precisely my point. brooklynite Sep 2015 #21
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #25
50% Le Taz Hot Sep 2015 #12
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Mahatma Gandhi Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #14
That same argument was used in 2008 Capn Sunshine Sep 2015 #32
100% sure hell win, but voted 90% due to the establishments Diebold advantage. NorthCarolina Sep 2015 #15
1% maybe? Garrett78 Sep 2015 #20
If his chances weren't good, they wouldn't spend so much effort and money Skwmom Sep 2015 #22
But that effort and money... Garrett78 Sep 2015 #23
A Corporate Democrat, a Corporate Republican - they deliver the same results. Skwmom Sep 2015 #24
Not precisely the same results. And voting still matters. But... Garrett78 Sep 2015 #29
So, President Gore would have been the exact same as President Bush? Capn Sunshine Sep 2015 #35
Marginally better than Andre Berto's chances of upsetting Floyd Mayweather this Saturday. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2015 #27
He's following the a similar trajectory as Obama (but slightly better) CoffeeCat Sep 2015 #28
Obama won states that Sanders won't win. Garrett78 Sep 2015 #34
Yes, but Clinton had those same enormous national leads... CoffeeCat Sep 2015 #40
Obama was an upcoming rock star. Garrett78 Sep 2015 #42
It will be interesting to see what media does if Bernie marlakay Sep 2015 #41
My feelings is that Bernie will be our next President madokie Sep 2015 #30
About 10%. I wish I could give better odds. Vattel Sep 2015 #33
the GOPers will continue the McCarthyist campaign against HRC in Hopes that Bernie will be nominated Bill USA Sep 2015 #36
1-5% taught_me_patience Sep 2015 #37
Yep. Garrett78 Sep 2015 #38
37.25% and rising. TheKentuckian Sep 2015 #39
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