Thank you. That makes sense. (Reply #89)

In the discussion thread: White progressive analysis of politics is fundamentally broken. [View all]

Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 9, 2017, 10:56 PM

brush (33,282 posts)

89. Thank you. That makes sense.

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217 replies	Author	Time	Post
White progressive analysis of politics is fundamentally broken. [View all]	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	OP
And don't forget the "war on drugs"	TexasBushwhacker	Jan 2017	#1
True on both.	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#7
Yep and Yep.	Iggo	Jan 2017	#8
Yep	Uponthegears	Jan 2017	#20
Best damn post I've read on this site.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#2
agreed.	JHan	Jan 2017	#33
Except for this very jarring sentence	brush	Jan 2017	#57
My interpretation ...	JHan	Jan 2017	#76
Workers forming unions in low-pay countries is good for those workers but my fear...	brush	Jan 2017	#78
Sourcing production overseas has a lot of hidden costs	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#80
yep +++	JHan	Jan 2017	#87
Thank you. That makes sense.	brush	Jan 2017	#89
+1	betsuni	Jan 2017	#96
Absolutely	Dem2	Jan 2017	#103
Who is going to buy a $2000 iPhone built in the USA	BlueStateLib	Jan 2017	#105
I phone	Dem2	Jan 2017	#121
That is about how much it would cost	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#125
All u know is I haz iPhone?	Dem2	Jan 2017	#149
I'm actually over 50 and, ironically...	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#185
Thanks for the clarification	HRC2020	Jan 2017	#124
That language is fluff	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#129
That describes "make perfect the enemy of good" to a "T"	JHan	Jan 2017	#135
No.	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#145
That is certainly the way I interpreted it, but I'm happy to be educated on this matter if anyone	JCanete	Jan 2017	#151
the "non-binding" is important..	JHan	Jan 2017	#176
I have always advocated for protectionism that has a basis on proper living standards of the workers	JCanete	Jan 2017	#178
Well, to be blunt..	JHan	Jan 2017	#179
"the productivity of a HS worker here is greater than a low skilled worker in Vietnam"	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#180
Off the top of my head..	JHan	Jan 2017	#181
It seems infrastructure is key, in fact.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#183
lol.....	JHan	Jan 2017	#184
Nafta has been a complete and utter failure for Mexico.	azmom	Jan 2017	#186
I'd never argue it was perfect for Mexico:	JHan	Jan 2017	#188
You argued that Mexico's economy is better because of NAFTA	azmom	Jan 2017	#194
The reasons I don't judge it a complete failure...	JHan	Jan 2017	#198
I think it was a failure.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#207
I think that's a legitimate concern. What's the answer?	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#153
First off we don't sign it.	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#156
It may be fluff like you said previously, but the language is there. But will it be enforced?	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#157
Not quite right	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#166
Nations can and have, but...	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#167
People say that about a lot of things.	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#168
I don't have one. This is a terribly complex problem.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#169
Agreed	Dem2	Jan 2017	#102
eloquently said	HRC2020	Jan 2017	#122
No, the focus must be twofold:	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#3
The problem is that this analysis is "right" but it's also tactically useless.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#9
Of course, the mortgage interest deduction	TexasBushwhacker	Jan 2017	#19
It is tactically necessary to frame the argument as based on race and class	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#21
Do you actually believe that Sanders SUPPORTERS(I'm not talking about Bernie-he's just one voice)	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#141
I particularly loathe it when people claim bernie supporters don't care about	dionysus	Jan 2017	#212
I don't make that claim and I don't think many do. See post #211.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#216
I didn't put those words in the mouths of any particular DUer, FYI...I	dionysus	Jan 2017	#217
It undid unions too	ymetca	Jan 2017	#4
Excellent. Best thing I've read on DU in a long time.	kcr	Jan 2017	#5
Look, I agree with you that nobody should say that class is the ONLY issue.	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#6
You're missing the point again.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#10
Why does dealing with race and class equate to you as NOT "centering race"?	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#11
Racism is largely what enables that economic injustice and corporate domination.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#12
I grew up in one of the poorest places in the US	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#14
That's true and it makes it hard to talk to certain groups of people about racial injustice, because	dionysus	Jan 2017	#214
I totally agree with you that the fight against racism is crucial.	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#16
What people don't get, in spite of forjusticethunder's excellent explanation, is...	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#22
I agree with everything you said there.	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#28
I think we should work together to find a new leader we both sides can get behind	bravenak	Jan 2017	#38
I'm not really interested in the Sanders vs. Clinton discussion.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#39
The discussion is kind of a proxy for the primary fight	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#42
Once again, you've nailed it.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#44
Pls explain the "TPP equals union protection" in the OP	brush	Jan 2017	#68
Bigotry isn't intrinsic and it isn't for nothing. Sure, not being at the bottom might be	JCanete	Jan 2017	#94
This message was self-deleted by its author	brush	Jan 2017	#66
I appreciate your efforts.	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#132
Social justice forms the umbrella.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#144
Thread winning post	bravenak	Jan 2017	#30
That title goes to forjusticethunder.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#34
This thread is filled with awesome	bravenak	Jan 2017	#35
absent racism, the Republican Party would cease to be a viable institution	Grey Lemercier	Jan 2017	#147
Yep, replying to my own post to share 2 excerpts from Obama's speech last night:	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#171
That is right, and it was awesome to hear him point that out. He also said that we need to listen to	JCanete	Jan 2017	#175
Of course he said that. He's a diplomat.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#182
God! This is not rocket science. We have to fight both equally, especially since a huge part of ...	brush	Jan 2017	#65
It is, but if the framing isn't right, it can backfire. White people in poverty, in areas that don'	dionysus	Jan 2017	#213
Just what this site needs...another anti-white people thread	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#13
wew lad	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#36
The defensiveness is expected ...	JHan	Jan 2017	#58
Understanding power is complex and takes deep analysis	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#62
If you don't want to be perceived as ...	MicaelS	Jan 2017	#81
Because PoC progressives don't have this issue?	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#82
Oh for the love of God, STOP IT!	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#84
Fuck the Alt-Right.	MicaelS	Jan 2017	#85
If you can be driven away because discussions about racism, you were never with us to begin with n/t	kcr	Jan 2017	#97
That's right.	Iggo	Jan 2017	#116
This.	Starry Messenger	Jan 2017	#123
People here are not "discussing racism." They are assuming that people are racists.	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#126
On second thought....	Iggo	Jan 2017	#130
Okay, but do you do it for the personal reward of it or because it's right? If you're doing	JCanete	Jan 2017	#133
I do things (and argue points) because it is the RIGHT thing to do	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#139
those are words to live by, but my point in one of the threads about being careful about a	JCanete	Jan 2017	#140
I said that because I have been trying for weeks to have productive conversation, however	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#189
absolutely agree!	Grey Lemercier	Jan 2017	#148
Typically the message has been "Trump voters can fuck off," which I also disagree with on both	JCanete	Jan 2017	#127
There is a MASSIVE difference between ingrained biases in society and racism	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#131
But that is strategy, and I totally agree with it, versus your own personal sensitivity to it, which	JCanete	Jan 2017	#134
There is loads of bias and stereotyping	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#190
As I've pointed out to you before, 80% of Trump's supporters are Birthers.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#192
trump voters or trump supporters? That is, people actually fond of trump, or people who helped to	JCanete	Jan 2017	#193
I'm going to presume that most of his Birther supporters identified in the poll voted for him.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#197
Exactly	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#83
It's unfortunate you think the post is a personal attack against all white people:	JHan	Jan 2017	#95
People being opposed to immigration is not usually about racism, it's about the economy too	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#128
You're describing the problem but hesitating to call it by its name..	JHan	Jan 2017	#137
Well said. And as FJT wrote elsewhere in this thread...	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#199
Really? That's how you view it? Fighting against racism is not anti-white dude.	brush	Jan 2017	#69
Then perhaps the OP should not have singled out white people in the thread title	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#86
Ok, point taken. Did you read it again? it's worth the read.	brush	Jan 2017	#88
I read it but I disagree with the OP	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#91
The ones singled out should've been the deplorables not white progressives...	brush	Jan 2017	#93
Was there anything in the post that wasn't correct?	True_Blue	Jan 2017	#110
Aw.	Iggo	Jan 2017	#115
So what's the plan to end racism? How do you make people non-racist?	jalan48	Jan 2017	#15
Good question. I'd like to know too. (nt)	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#18
Building a multiracial alliance is not easy but it can be done with concerted effort.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#25
And I'm pretty sure we are all for that basic concept.	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#37
Good to hear. How do we get the rulers of the country to hold these meetings?	jalan48	Jan 2017	#40
Before there is ANY hope of ending racism...	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#41
You're not getting the point.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#51
No, they don't. They vote against their interests because they believe lies.	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#74
Thing is	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#75
Not where I come from it's not a "black thing."	NoGoodNamesLeft	Jan 2017	#77
Before there is any hope of having a meaningful conversation about racism,	Dark n Stormy Knight	Jan 2017	#206
This is my question.	OnionPatch	Jan 2017	#107
The OP is addressing focus:	JHan	Jan 2017	#108
Unfortunately, I think it would be like passing legislation requiring us to all love one another.	jalan48	Jan 2017	#109
That's not what the OP is saying:	JHan	Jan 2017	#111
What the OP says is "White Progressives analysis is fundamentally broken".	jalan48	Jan 2017	#112
If you get caught up with the headline you miss the more nuanced points:	JHan	Jan 2017	#113
Dividing groups in society against one another to gain power goes back thousands of years.	jalan48	Jan 2017	#114
How do you get the votes to restructure society	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#161
How do we get the votes? By reaching out to others and showing them who the real enemy is.	jalan48	Jan 2017	#162
And why do they not already accept who the real enemy is? See the OP.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#163
While society has enlightened itself, however slowly, over time and continues	dionysus	Jan 2017	#215
Stop Saying Trumps Win Had Nothing To Do With Economics	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#17
Nobody said that. You've missed the point.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#23
How so?	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#24
The OP explained it so eloquently and better than I can.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#26
I've read it 4 times now, but still don't get what the OP is trying to say. (nt)	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#27
Read post #9 by the same author.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#29
None of this makes any sense to me.	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#43
The only way to take down the oligarchy is to end the racism they invented to keep	bravenak	Jan 2017	#45
Labor in the white skin can never free itself as long as labor in the black skin is branded.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#47
That was pretty good	bravenak	Jan 2017	#48
Aren't we already doing that?	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#53
No. We are not doing enough.	bravenak	Jan 2017	#55
I don't understand why you think anyone is suggesting that...	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#46
Why do working class whites vote for policies that actively screw them?	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#49
Why bother w/Trump voters?	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#61
Our generation is really progressive, though white millennials still broke for Trump.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#63
And white women broke for Trump, as well. Regarding millennials...	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#71
Obama also lost young white voters to Romney .	JI7	Jan 2017	#92
unfortunately the post Millennials (iGen, Gen Z, whatever you wish to call them, people born post	Grey Lemercier	Jan 2017	#150
I'm very skeptical about this. Everybody in the 14-18 age cohort I've interacted with	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#155
I'm somewhat skeptical about those specifics, too, but...	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#158
I agree	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#159
Read this awesome post	bravenak	Jan 2017	#32
yes absolutely. But that means we have to look at the people using the tools. We can't fix this	JCanete	Jan 2017	#50
For an analogy, you're gonna go into a fight against a bully.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#54
Here, try this one.	JCanete	Jan 2017	#60
" We can deliver them the real villain that is causing them pain."	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#67
You have to tie that racist brainwashing to the money. That kind of means you have to show them	JCanete	Jan 2017	#70
Good post. It had a nice positive vibe to it.	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#99
yeah, there are things that can be done here for sure. Case by case is a little slow, but of course,	JCanete	Jan 2017	#118
See now we're getting on the same page	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#106
Rev. Barber	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#117
I actually thought I linked that article	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#119
Yes, I agree that conversations about race can't be for a later date. Focusing on its usage as a	JCanete	Jan 2017	#120
The economic conditions are enabled by racism, both overt and 'soft'.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#72
Great post forjusticethunders: Recommended.	JHan	Jan 2017	#31
Enjoyed the op.	NCTraveler	Jan 2017	#52
Which white progressive are you referring to, here? Just Bill Clinton?	TygrBright	Jan 2017	#56
K&R	Starry Messenger	Jan 2017	#59
The most progressive state in America is California	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#104
The Democratic Party isnt going to back down from defending minority rights	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#64
Excellent essay!	mcar	Jan 2017	#73
Thank you!	Political_Junkie	Jan 2017	#79
Brilliant post. Thank you.	EffieBlack	Jan 2017	#90
I have a big crush on your posts, forjusticethunders. Thank you and moar please.	betsuni	Jan 2017	#98
Is this the plan, really?	Kentonio	Jan 2017	#100
Look, how do you sell economic populism to people	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#138
The ACA-Obamacare dichotomy would be funny if it wasn't so damn consequential.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#142
The Republicans always run on the economy when they win. Trump certainly did.	Kentonio	Jan 2017	#152
Hillary won "economy" voters and lost "immigration and terrorism" voters.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#154
Keep telling yourself that.	Kentonio	Jan 2017	#173
Everything FJT wrote in that post is true.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#174
Renowned racist Steve King of Iowa was interviewed by Robert Siegel of NPR	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#200
The Political Third Rail	no_hypocrisy	Jan 2017	#101
Anti-discrimination laws are not going to break up	azmom	Jan 2017	#136
As I've written elsewhere in this thread...	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#143
Isn't the Democratic Party a multi-racial alliance?	azmom	Jan 2017	#146
The Democratic electorate is diverse but divided, and not great enough in number.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#164
so i searched the whole thread and found NO reference to 'radio'	certainot	Jan 2017	#160
It's the whole media in different ways, and radio is absolutely still a big part of it, but yep...	JCanete	Jan 2017	#165
Yep, that's a big part of the brainwashing on a tactical level.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#172
From Obama's farewell address:	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#170
Bingo!	JHan	Jan 2017	#177
He said much more than that.	azmom	Jan 2017	#187
Yep, we have to address the reason why such folks keep finding...	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#191
What are the priorities of blacks and Hispanics that voted for Trump?	azmom	Jan 2017	#195
Hard to say without polling information.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#196
"...no American worker movement will succeed so long as racism remains rampant in America."	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#201
Racism and economic anxiety often go together.	Willie Pep	Jan 2017	#202
Decimation of unions was enabled by racism. And addressing racism is key to labor movement success.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#203
But unions have been successful in the past when racism was even stronger than it is now.	Willie Pep	Jan 2017	#204
Excerpts from one of the articles I posted:	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#208
And an excerpt from another article I posted:	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#209
This is a thread I'm sorry I missed when it was happening.	Dark n Stormy Knight	Jan 2017	#205
White progressive analysis?	Rex	Jan 2017	#210
From a Salon article:	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#211

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