2016 Postmortem

mike_c

(36,281 posts) Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:44 PM Nov 2016

Who should have been the democratic party nominee for president? [View all]

I ask because I'm seeing lots of disdain for Senator Bernie Sanders in this forum, much of it claiming that he would never have been able to defeat Mr. Trump. I don't actually believe that-- the Sanders campaign generated huge voter interest and enthusiasm despite a virtual media blackout and Clinton's primary victory depended largely on her control of party establishment super delegates-- but let's accept it for arguments' sake and remove Senator Sanders from consideration because he would not beat Mr. Trump. Unlike Senator Sanders, who is unsuitable because we *presume* he would not defeat Trump, Senator Hillary Clinton actually failed to defeat Trump in real life, at least decisively, so if we apply the "won't win" standard to Sanders, we must certainly apply it to Senator Clinton as well.

Martin O'Malley was an also ran from the very beginning, IMO, but I'd certainly like to hear from anyone who thinks otherwise.

So if not Clinton or Sanders, neither of whom could beat Trump, who should the democratic party have nominated instead?

197 replies

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Highlight:

Who should have been the democratic party nominee for president? [View all] mike_c Nov 2016 OP

Hillary underpants Nov 2016 #1

you would prefer to run a losing candidate (and have a Trump presidency)? mike_c Nov 2016 #10

Nobody could have beaten Trump Applan Nov 2016 #52

It would have been difficult to beat any of the last 3 GOP hopefuls. People forget how bad GOP stevenleser Nov 2016 #76

Cruz would have been a very weak candidate Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #117

Cruz and Kasich both polled better against Hillary than Trump stevenleser Nov 2016 #138

He was totally beatable. But not by her. TDale313 Nov 2016 #128

I guess we should just give up 2020 then too SpareribSP Nov 2016 #157

Hillary lost the election to Comey. lapucelle Nov 2016 #90

Joe Biden is the easy answer hueymahl Nov 2016 #2

I agree with you-- Biden would have been a good nominee... mike_c Nov 2016 #15

YES!!!!! get the red out Nov 2016 #33

I agree Biden mainstreetonce Nov 2016 #51

Would have been a great one Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #86

There were issues with Biden. lapucelle Nov 2016 #98

Biden, Bernie, or Elizabeth would of won easily... but, it was Hillary's turn and, as they say, the rest is history. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #104

this mike_c Nov 2016 #107

Who's turn is then coming up next? LanternWaste Nov 2016 #168

It's Bernie's turn, of course... just like it was Hillary's turn after she lost to Obama. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #191

Biden, absolutely. tinrobot Nov 2016 #126

The one who won by millions of votes. nt. NCTraveler Nov 2016 #3

The one who won the primary by MILLIONS of votes. Really, you're going down this road? MADem Nov 2016 #4

The jury returned their verdict. It's over. It's done, she loss, move on. This is as pathetic as Exilednight Nov 2016 #49

You plainly don't understand the purpose of this recount. MADem Nov 2016 #53

I don't understand the recount due to the fact she will not get the required EVs. Exilednight Nov 2016 #65

And you think that's the ONLY goal? MADem Nov 2016 #69

Unfair as it is, with Republicans in control there will be no amendment to change the EC. Exilednight Nov 2016 #71

Biden didn't choose to run. It's easy to fantasize about him and Warren. nt pnwmom Nov 2016 #113

No worse than those thinking about a Hillary presidency. Exilednight Nov 2016 #118

Hillary was chosen by 2,350,000 more voters than DT. (And her lead is still increasing.) pnwmom Nov 2016 #120

How does a person become president? Exilednight Nov 2016 #122

The fact remains that the strong majority (54%) voted against Trump. pnwmom Nov 2016 #123

No more ignorant than thinking Hillary still has a shot. Exilednight Nov 2016 #127

I don't think Hillary can win now, and that's why I didn't donate to Stein's pnwmom Nov 2016 #130

Third party candidates was not why Hillary lost the election. Exilednight Nov 2016 #170

The 7 million third party votes had a huge impact. If about a hundred thousand of them in key states pnwmom Nov 2016 #171

If they voted 3rx party they were never going to vote for Hillary. Exilednight Nov 2016 #175

If they were never going to vote for Hillary they were willing to let Trump win; pnwmom Nov 2016 #177

And they did let Trump win. Exilednight Nov 2016 #181

And the Greens proved once again what phonies they are, pnwmom Nov 2016 #183

Any serious nomination challenge to Clinton would have been a bloodbath Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #125

No worse than Obama vs Hillary. Exilednight Nov 2016 #129

No, I think it would have been a lot worse Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #135

The party is at war with itself now. Exilednight Nov 2016 #137

That is because we lost the election Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #139

It wasn't just that we lost the election, it's because we nominated an establishment candidate Exilednight Nov 2016 #140

Any number of "establishment" candidates could have won Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #141

Look, we've had three terrific nominees since 2000 (four, with Obama) LisaM Nov 2016 #5

Excellent. Hoyt Nov 2016 #11

Agreed... TwilightZone Nov 2016 #66

This!!! DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #67

gerrymandering doesn't affect presidential elections zipplewrath Nov 2016 #78

But gerrymandering DOES affect things like how many polling sites there are in a district, LisaM Nov 2016 #94

Hard pressed zipplewrath Nov 2016 #161

According to Dana Millbank, there were possibly millions of suppressed votes. LisaM Nov 2016 #164

Hillary. (nt) JaneQPublic Nov 2016 #6

Apparently we should have run, wait for it- rzemanfl Nov 2016 #7

Thread winner! hueymahl Nov 2016 #28

I actually refer to the little fuhrer as president Camacho sometimes too! nt Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #146

We had a candidate, chosen in the primaries. MineralMan Nov 2016 #8

Agree with your statement. Wellstone ruled Nov 2016 #12

6 million zipplewrath Nov 2016 #160

The election is over. I'm not really interested MineralMan Nov 2016 #163

He who does not study history zipplewrath Nov 2016 #173

Hillary JI7 Nov 2016 #9

I supported SBS during the primary katsy Nov 2016 #13

I think people need to understand that this can't ever be resolved. Skinner Nov 2016 #14

DU needs a "like" button.... mike_c Nov 2016 #19

I agree Lotusflower70 Nov 2016 #16

He has lot of baggage, including the simple fact marybourg Nov 2016 #54

Socialist Lotusflower70 Nov 2016 #56

Agree. nt marybourg Nov 2016 #92

All the bullshit liquid diamond Nov 2016 #91

Does it matter? Txbluedog Nov 2016 #17

I think it will certainly help us move forward... mike_c Nov 2016 #20

I agree that the Party needs to learn from it's mistakes Txbluedog Nov 2016 #23

This is liquid diamond Nov 2016 #96

I don't think we can have a productive conversation on this subject el_bryanto Nov 2016 #18

Excellent post!!! Txbluedog Nov 2016 #32

Bernie Sanders Calculating Nov 2016 #21

Debbie Wassermann Schultz rigged it so Bernie was marginalized right from the beginning and RKP5637 Nov 2016 #29

There's that "Southern states" horse shit again. Democrats in every state get to vote in the primary BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #30

This 1000 and he should have just said black voters. SaschaHM Nov 2016 #38

Me too. They've earned a heaping serving of "Right back at you" from now on. BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #42

Mark Dayton greymattermom Nov 2016 #22

Minnesota doing well? The Rethugs just won control of both Chambers of the State Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #193

Who knows? That's why we needed a truly open and competitive primary Azathoth Nov 2016 #24

Agreed. Remember when we had 8 candidates running? Merlot Nov 2016 #102

Most reasonable post I've read in awhile. tecelote Nov 2016 #136

Yup. nt Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #147

Exactly! Gram Parsons Nov 2016 #154

"the only guy who stayed in the race was the quixotic socialist." SpareribSP Nov 2016 #159

Fantastic and astute analysis. I completely agree. n/t Tatiana Nov 2016 #184

What is the point in all this bullshit hashing over the primaries doc03 Nov 2016 #25

actually, I'm hoping that we can learn for the future mike_c Nov 2016 #109

You may have stepped into the wrong forum, doc. JudyM Nov 2016 #149

Someone who could have beaten Donald Trump. vi5 Nov 2016 #26

Sadly, Hillary had a lot of baggage. I think Joe Biden would have done better. n/t RKP5637 Nov 2016 #27

Hillary Rodham Clinton Madam45for2923 Nov 2016 #31

The Democartic nominee should have been BlueMTexpat Nov 2016 #34

So many things wrong with this answer hueymahl Nov 2016 #36

This. JudyM Nov 2016 #150

It has never been about refighting the primaries. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #44

this isn't about refighting the primaries.... mike_c Nov 2016 #105

Whoever the party nominated would have been viciously smeared based on lies StevieM Nov 2016 #35

Not Clinton or Sanders. David__77 Nov 2016 #37

I'm very happy she won Barbara Boxer's seat in the Senate.... mike_c Nov 2016 #112

The winner of the Democratic primary. Period. SaschaHM Nov 2016 #39

Sanders, of course. Don't confuse the DU consensus for the real world. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #40

Joe Biden LeftInTX Nov 2016 #41

I think Hillary could have won, if only she had treated the fall campaign as a partnership Ken Burch Nov 2016 #43

Something like this... Skinner Nov 2016 #46

Too equivocal for the "I do whatever the GOP tells me to do" Democrat. Squinch Nov 2016 #48

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Nov 2016 #61

Exactly. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #55

It made for a pretty good acceptance speech at the DNC. Skinner Nov 2016 #58

I know she said it there, Skinner. But after that, she never spoke like that again. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #68

Aww. She didn't say it enough. mcar Nov 2016 #74

Repetition of the message matters. The way we appeal to voters matters. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #83

So her ad budget should have been directed at The Busters? BainsBane Nov 2016 #79

The ads could be directed to both. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #131

Great post Nance Gothmog Nov 2016 #144

This is the third time you've called me Nance! BainsBane Nov 2016 #158

I am sorry Gothmog Dec 2016 #194

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Nov 2016 #115

Always moving the goalposts emulatorloo Nov 2016 #119

You are Wrong Gothmog Nov 2016 #142

Yeah she did. At rallies you didn't attend and weren't covered on TV. n/t pnwmom Nov 2016 #143

Well played. BainsBane Nov 2016 #81

Oh, snap! Well played, sir! Hekate Nov 2016 #153

Well done, Skinner! emulatorloo Nov 2016 #60

Ooops. Good memory sir. That was in mid-July, Sanders finally "got out there"..... George II Nov 2016 #72

If she had said anything close to this, we'd be looking at President-elect Clinton. Tatiana Nov 2016 #185

She did. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #192

That entire suggestion is nothing but infantile appeasement. BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #62

Appeasement is a totally inappropriate term. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #70

The word appeasement equals Third Reich? tammywammy Nov 2016 #111

Neville Chamberlain and Munich. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #133

Appeasement is not a word used solely by Chamberlain regarding Nazis. synergie Nov 2016 #155

Considering how elections are won by 2016 standards, someone who is a bigger liar than Trump mtnsnake Nov 2016 #45

Hillary won the popular vote by a wider margin than any candidate, win or lose, since the 1870s Squinch Nov 2016 #47

She did beat Trump but for the EC. duffyduff Nov 2016 #50

The big problem, I think, is that we haven't been grooming young candidates Retrograde Nov 2016 #57

Democratic party tends to atrophy when we win the White House. geek tragedy Nov 2016 #64

Bingo zipplewrath Nov 2016 #88

Of the candidates who ran, I think none of them would have done better. mythology Nov 2016 #59

Elizabeth Warren seems like an obvious answer, but she didn't want the job geek tragedy Nov 2016 #63

Jesus God, there is only one answer Eliz Warren jodymarie aimee Nov 2016 #93

What is the point of rehashing this? Vinca Nov 2016 #73

I'm rehashing it to emphasize the absurdity... mike_c Nov 2016 #95

who's a celeb djsunyc Nov 2016 #75

Should of's, could of's when it started Trump wasn't even a fart.... Historic NY Nov 2016 #77

Hillary. Lil Missy Nov 2016 #80

The Democrats were so stupid. If only they had nominated Kirill Shamalov, it would have been a still_one Nov 2016 #82

Joe Biden... most honest person in politics... he would have defeated any R... MyNameIsKhan Nov 2016 #84

You're brave to ask on this forum. George Eliot Nov 2016 #85

Hillary won the nomination without the supers Buzz cook Nov 2016 #87

Hillary was the only real choice Gothmog Nov 2016 #89

Senator Clinton lost because she was the wrong candidate at the wrong time.... mike_c Nov 2016 #99

What about Warren? She had all of Hillary's good points, but nothing Trump could attack her for. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #145

Hillary won NY & California by over 6 million votes. jmg257 Nov 2016 #97

she was a close second to the most unfit candidate in American history.... mike_c Nov 2016 #100

Yep - it was a bit surprising, but in th eend understandable. nt jmg257 Nov 2016 #101

they didn't want a populist outsider. they wanted a bigot who would ban and kick out "those" people JI7 Nov 2016 #156

Warren BeyondGeography Nov 2016 #103

If she wanted it, she could have. My pick for 2020. Exilednight Nov 2016 #108

Me too BeyondGeography Nov 2016 #114

Limberbutt McCubbins the Cat shenmue Nov 2016 #106

"I'm with Limberbutt...." mike_c Nov 2016 #110

Biden, Warren or Jerry Brown in that order Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #116

Jerry Brown might have been good indeed. David__77 Nov 2016 #132

Hillary Clinton. She was the best qualified for the job, and would have made an excellent president lunamagica Nov 2016 #121

Tim Ryan n/t Polly Hennessey Nov 2016 #124

Hitler/Satan could have defeated Trump/Pence emulatorloo Nov 2016 #134

The voters nominated the winner. Hillary. Starry Messenger Nov 2016 #148

Oddjob. The guy from the 007 films saltpoint Nov 2016 #151

You read my mind two hours before I posted it. Hugin Nov 2016 #166

Hot dog, Hugin -- we got them ol' saltpoint Nov 2016 #167

VP Biden! Corey_Baker08 Nov 2016 #152

Bernie jman0war Nov 2016 #162

Apparently, some c-rated wannabe reality show celebrity. Hugin Nov 2016 #165

Jim Webb TSIAS Nov 2016 #169

The scrapper from Scranton WMDemocract Nov 2016 #172

If we can't choose Sanders, I would say Biden would have won shawn703 Nov 2016 #174

Biden would have won. Sanders would have gotten crushed. Hillary was my 2nd choice. I had no 3rd. Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #176

Bernie. ret5hd Nov 2016 #178

I'm concerned now about 2020 wondering who that might be! Trump was/is a superb con artist, but RKP5637 Nov 2016 #179

As much as I am now coming down on the septuagenarians, I think Warren could have won. randome Nov 2016 #180

I don't think we're asking the right questions. iscooterliberally Nov 2016 #182

So, I stepped into this DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #186

Senator Elizabeth Warren. She can speak to the Occupy Wall Street generation, she can get a crowd Dems to Win Nov 2016 #187

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2016 #188

welcome to DU.... mike_c Nov 2016 #190

Personally I would have preferred Sanders- that's why I voted for him in the primary, of course- but Warren DeMontague Nov 2016 #189

Hmmmm LP2K12 Dec 2016 #195

Jim Webb Blackbottle Dec 2016 #196

He was a lazy candidate who couldn't campaign his way out of a paper bag. MADem Dec 2016 #197