2016 Postmortem

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)

60. Your only evidence is "DC is a small town"? Even LBJ's chief of staff didn't know

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:02 PM

Jul 2016

From your own link:

On Friday, March 29, the President said at a news conference that he would deliver a televised address the following Sunday evening. Friday evening, he called his press secretary, George Christian; Postmaster General W. Marvin Watson and me into his Oval Office study. The discussion lasted a couple of hours.

''I'm thinking about announcing Sunday that I'm not running. What do you think?'' he opened over the first drink. The three of us argued vigorously while he poked holes in each argument. By evening's end, we split 2-1 (George was against his running, Marvin and I said it was too late for him to step away from the battle.) We left the meeting not knowing what he would do.

Arguing that RFK knew is bizarre, to say the least. And yes, since it was assumed that Johnson was going to run and since Johnson would have been the front-runner, RFK running meant that he was running against Johnson. And that's the way Johnson took if, if we look at his own words. It was clear that RFK was running against the incumbent as well, if we look at his words:

Finally, my decision reflects no personal animosity or disrespect toward President Johnson. He served President Kennedy with the utmost loyalty and was extremely kind to me and members of my family in the difficult months which followed the events of November of 1963.

I have often commended his efforts in health, in education, and in many other areas, and I have the deepest sympathy for the burden that he carries today.

But the issue is not personal. It is our profound differences over where we are heading and what we want to accomplish.

I do not lightly dismiss the dangers and the difficulties of challenging an incumbent President. But these are not ordinary times and this is not an ordinary election.

At stake is not simply the leadership of our party and even our country. It is our right to moral leadership of this planet.

To argue that RFK wasn't running against LBJ seems as strange as saying Ted Kennedy wasn't actually running against Carter.

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In 1980, did Ted Kennedy endorse Jimmy Carter? [View all] Eric J in MN Jul 2016 OP

He "snubbed" him. Not his finest hour. Ted Kennedy was an utter mess during that timeframe. MADem Jul 2016 #1

It's always strange that I never see such criticism directed against Bobby Kennedy's run in '68. N/T Chathamization Jul 2016 #9

His assassination might have something to do with that ,and sufrommich Jul 2016 #14

Probably true; people's opinions on primary challenges are more influenced by the events surrounding Chathamization Jul 2016 #18

Bobby Kennedy wasn't really primarying an incumbent. SheilaT Jul 2016 #27

That makes no sense, though--what incumbent was running in 1968? MADem Jul 2016 #43

LBJ Did NOT drop out until two weeks after RFK entered the race. John Poet Jul 2016 #45

See post 52. LBJ's staff knew in Dec 1967 that he'd had enough--RFK didn't announce until Mar 68. MADem Jul 2016 #53

LBJ dropped out after RFK entered, and it was considered a surprise. One of the reasons why LBJ Chathamization Jul 2016 #50

LBJ had terrible heart disease. That may have been the icing on the cake, but he had MADem Jul 2016 #52

Do you have any evidence that RFK knew LBJ was going out? I've never seen anyone claim that, and it Chathamization Jul 2016 #54

DC is a small town and people have always talked. It wouldn't have mattered anyway. RFK MADem Jul 2016 #58

Your only evidence is "DC is a small town"? Even LBJ's chief of staff didn't know Chathamization Jul 2016 #60

We can go round in circles all day, but he did not have the MATH MADem Jul 2016 #65

It's not circles; the facts are that RFK was running against an incumbent when he entered the race Chathamization Jul 2016 #66

He was running against an incumbent who was on his way out the door. MADem Jul 2016 #70

Even Johnson's chief of staff didn't know if Johnson was going to leave the race, and that was 2 Chathamization Jul 2016 #73

My point, again, is that people TALK. His COS and everyone else in the room, perhaps "The Butler," MADem Jul 2016 #75

Again, do you have any evidence of this? The people closest to him didn't know one way or another, Chathamization Jul 2016 #80

My "evidence" is my understanding of how things work in that town. I realize you want a MADem Jul 2016 #86

Do you know of any historian or person connected to either man that thought RFK knew? Chathamization Jul 2016 #89

More than one thing can be true--he certainly was "opposed" to LBJ (despised him, in fact) and MADem Jul 2016 #91

Again, both LBJ and RFK seemed to view RFK's entry as being against LBJ Chathamization Jul 2016 #95

Well, this is a very interesting conversation, Hortensis Jul 2016 #107

RFK had to first best McCarthy, and he was whipping him but good, especially MADem Jul 2016 #113

McCarthy's strong showing in New Hampshire had something to do with his dropping out nt dflprincess Jul 2016 #78

Eugene McCarthy was already in the race when RFK entered it dflprincess Jul 2016 #77

True, but I'm not sure what you're point is. It's OK to primary an incumbent if someone is already Chathamization Jul 2016 #81

Actually I think it's okay for anyone to challenge an incumbent dflprincess Jul 2016 #83

Oh, I meant contemporary criticism from the "it's terrible to run against a sitting president"-crowd Chathamization Jul 2016 #84

Sorry, misunderstood your comment. dflprincess Jul 2016 #109

Brings back memories Frances Jul 2016 #101

Bobby was not running against a sitting party President. apples vs oranges nt TeamPooka Jul 2016 #105

The situation had nothing in common with 1980. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #110

Well... Drunken Irishman Jul 2016 #112

Where has it EVER been documented that Ted Kennedy EVER used cocaine? John Poet Jul 2016 #46

One of his former aides wrote an entire book about it. The book took a small truth, that TK used MADem Jul 2016 #57

I think it is odd that he ran when he had such tremendous baggage loyalsister Jul 2016 #61

That is what can happen to people with addiction issues, some times. MADem Jul 2016 #63

Sure loyalsister Jul 2016 #64

Edwards, from what I understand, has gone back into private law practice with his daughter. MADem Jul 2016 #72

I find it interesting lancer78 Jul 2016 #87

Politics is a curious business--and everything old is new again, I guess.... nt MADem Jul 2016 #93

I've been listening the audio version of Jimmy Carter's autobiography "A Full Life," Rhiannon12866 Jul 2016 #2

How did 1980 turn out? geek tragedy Jul 2016 #3

Results had nothing to do with Kennedy's challenge. JackRiddler Jul 2016 #69

1980 was the beginning of a disaster were still paying for MFM008 Jul 2016 #4

Ding, ding, ding! Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #55

yup, 3rd worst president ever. 1st was Hoover, 2nd was Bush Jr. - all Republicans TeamPooka Jul 2016 #106

kennedy's action in 1980 to me, forever tarnished the kennedy name. I never gave beachbum bob Jul 2016 #5

Agreed, I always thought Teddy was completely comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #97

It wouldn't have made a difference. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #6

I agree Va Lefty Jul 2016 #7

Kennedy was pushed awful hard by a large number of Democratic officeholders John Poet Jul 2016 #49

Jimmy Carter's complete inability to compromise his principles Lyric Jul 2016 #8

My side DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #13

This is a very fair point you are making--it is sometimes a difficult one to make, because MADem Jul 2016 #74

Carter was most likely the wrong president at the wrong time,however sufrommich Jul 2016 #11

It was... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #15

But Carter didn't betray Democratic principles. sufrommich Jul 2016 #17

And those dreadful interest rates predated Carter by a good deal. MADem Jul 2016 #51

I had a friend who worked on George Pataki's staff... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #56

There was also the USSR invasion of BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #59

1. Sanders is no Ted Kennedy. 2. How did that all work out? EffieBlack Jul 2016 #10

Primarying Carter was a huge mistake. Adrahil Jul 2016 #12

While it certainly didn't help, and was disgraceful of Kennedy, it was the Iran Hostage still_one Jul 2016 #31

I don't disgree, but.... Adrahil Jul 2016 #38

no question about that, reagan was a disaster for labor and most everything else still_one Jul 2016 #40

Kennedy was right. JackRiddler Jul 2016 #71

I don't think Kennedy was to blame, necessarily... Adrahil Jul 2016 #99

And who won that year? MohRokTah Jul 2016 #16

Way to NOT make a good argument MaggieD Jul 2016 #19

What I'd like to happen Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #20

He lost MaggieD Jul 2016 #21

Sanders shouldn't get his entire platform. Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #25

You need to brush up on what a party platform is MaggieD Jul 2016 #26

I realize that there are two issues, HRC's campaign platform and the Democratic Party Platform. Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #29

And he shouldn't - he lost MaggieD Jul 2016 #33

If HRC doesn't compromise, and Sanders doesn't endorse, and we get President Trump Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #35

Most Sanders supporters have already moved on. At this point it sufrommich Jul 2016 #36

WRONG. Do some more reading outside of DU. unless you call less than half leeroysphitz Jul 2016 #41

I would never limit myself to reading only DU for info,that would sufrommich Jul 2016 #47

I do and agree with you. Leave 840high Jul 2016 #82

But why should he? /nt romana Jul 2016 #37

The platform romana Jul 2016 #30

I was unclear. I was referring to HRC's public position with regard to tuition Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #32

Cinton voters were SPECIFICALLY voting AGAINST Sanders policy and platform proposals. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #22

I agree that if Sanders doesn't endorse, fine for HRC to not schedule a Sanders convention speech NT Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #23

^^^This!!! DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #24

+1 tallahasseedem Jul 2016 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #34

So we were winning SheenaR Jul 2016 #44

Kennedy ran that year because he considered Carter ineffectual and too conservative andym Jul 2016 #39

K&R SheenaR Jul 2016 #42

You want to use 1980 as an example?... SidDithers Jul 2016 #48

Yes, he ultimately did and they even campaigned together. book_worm Jul 2016 #62

Where did they campaign together? NT Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #94

Here are some examples: book_worm Jul 2016 #108

Thanks. NT Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #111

kennedy was wrong but i also don't tHink Sanders is as influential as kennedy JI7 Jul 2016 #67

Remember this???? hollowdweller Jul 2016 #68

I worked on the Kennedy campaign and that go a a paid job on the Carter campaign Onlooker Jul 2016 #76

Those may have been the same two kids I saw tossed out of a rather exclusive private club MADem Jul 2016 #79

Senator Kennedy's challenge of President Carter for the nomination... PJMcK Jul 2016 #85

Is there some veiled threat in bringing up this story? robbedvoter Jul 2016 #88

this hurt america more than can ever be known SoLeftIAmRight Jul 2016 #90

For historical interest, here is an article on Kennedy in 1979 pondering entering the race andym Jul 2016 #92

In 1980 did Jimmy Carter win the General Election? George II Jul 2016 #96

Who cares. It's irrelevant to now. Lil Missy Jul 2016 #98

Kennedy primaried a sitting President in his own party. liberalnarb Jul 2016 #100

And Reagan won Frances Jul 2016 #102

How did that turn out? Zynx Jul 2016 #103

My idea involves just one policy clarification. Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #104