I'm not sure why you think voting one's conscience is "easy." (Reply #176)

In the discussion thread: POC aren't buying the "Bernie's been fighting for you all his life so you should vote for him" claim [View all]

Response to EffieBlack (Reply #65)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:33 PM

Chef Eric (1,024 posts)

176. I'm not sure why you think voting one's conscience is "easy."

If it was so easy for Bernie Sanders to vote against the Iraq War, then why wasn't it easy for Hillary Clinton?

Almost 5000 American servicemen died in that war. And because people of color served in disproportionately high numbers, people of color died in disproportionately high numbers.

And then there is the issue of homelessness among veterans. There are tens of thousands of homeless veterans of the Iraq War, and the U.S. Veterans Administration estimates that half of them are African American or Latino.

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255 replies	Author	Time	Post
POC aren't buying the "Bernie's been fighting for you all his life so you should vote for him" claim [View all]	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	OP
Truth.nt	LexVegas	Feb 2016	#1
12% of Dem voters in SC	RobertEarl	Feb 2016	#25
Good enough for a nice pile of delegates!	Lucinda	Feb 2016	#187
8%	RobertEarl	Feb 2016	#220
I suspect that the numbers are low because they expect her to be our nominee	Lucinda	Feb 2016	#222
I suspect that the other 92% don't like Hillary.	RobertEarl	Feb 2016	#223
Nope. We had half the turnout for the 08 primary that we ended up with in the GE	Lucinda	Feb 2016	#224
and guess who else is not trusted there - the one with less votes than HRC	DrDan	Feb 2016	#238
Then why didn't they vote for Bernie?	obamanut2012	Feb 2016	#242
All we can do is show them who is a better candidate	Politicalboi	Feb 2016	#2
So what would have worked?	Lucky Luciano	Feb 2016	#3
If fighting for them and us white working people isn't enough, what do they want?	brewens	Feb 2016	#13
Maybe you stop talking at them and start listening to them	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#24
Hi, I would really like to understand	AgerolanAmerican	Feb 2016	#32
We'd love to.	jeff47	Feb 2016	#56
No, you're not. We in the AA forum are very receptive to honest and respectful dialogue	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#59
Post removed	Post removed	Feb 2016	#73
I asked a question and	840high	Feb 2016	#92
Questions with zero insult or lecture get warnings.	jeff47	Feb 2016	#114
Honest and respectful dialogue. As long as it supports Hillary.	progressoid	Feb 2016	#214
That's my experience.	840high	Feb 2016	#84
I'm familiar with the won't take yes for an answer tactic. How about yourself? Where are you	brewens	Feb 2016	#123
Like Hillary does? Tell that to Ashley Williams.	Lizzie Poppet	Feb 2016	#139
Wholeheartedly agree... Like she did, and he didn't, in this vid.	JudyM	Feb 2016	#144
Great video! Thank you for the link.	Petrushka	Feb 2016	#175
Bingo	MaggieD	Feb 2016	#167
“Do you want to hear the facts or do you just want to talk?”	arcane1	Feb 2016	#252
So, I'd start with unpacking what "fight" means	Recursion	Feb 2016	#104
Fighting means, among other things, doing something above and beyond just voting or giving	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#137
That may well be what Brewens meant; I don't know	Recursion	Feb 2016	#143
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#166
He could do those things and they would be good, but that would not be fighting for civil rights	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#179
Thank you for calling out democracy in DC!!!	Recursion	Feb 2016	#237
I think they should go with that	bigtree	Feb 2016	#4
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#5
No, it's not a matter of opinion. It's just not true	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#15
Fine	2pooped2pop	Feb 2016	#22
Yep. Wholeheartedly agreed.	Phlem	Feb 2016	#55
Well, alrighty then	Chitown Kev	Feb 2016	#101
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#31
Casting a vote in Congress is not "fighting" no matter how much you try to so characterize it	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#65
Let's end this BS right now	Loudestlib	Feb 2016	#77
She's spent time with them. She knows them. She knows the conditions.	ucrdem	Feb 2016	#78
So she has done nothing. n/t	Loudestlib	Feb 2016	#85
This isn't an answer	Joe the Revelator	Feb 2016	#134
Maybe not so meaningless. We'll see on Tuesday. The lady I paraphrased lives in AL.	ucrdem	Feb 2016	#165
Ironic, since in 08 she was saying the white vote was important.	progressoid	Feb 2016	#206
That is NOT true. She has NO time for PoC.	senz	Feb 2016	#234
What would Hillary do?	All in it together	Feb 2016	#245
In other words, you can't answer the question	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#79
You can't answer mine.	Loudestlib	Feb 2016	#86
I can answer it but I don't play the deflection game.	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#95
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#112
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#82
Bernie's record has been posted	840high	Feb 2016	#109
Casting a vote is much better than running a race baiting primary campaign against the	Chakab	Feb 2016	#97
I agree, that is why I wrote an OP about those that would divide us in the service of the wealthy as	Dragonfli	Feb 2016	#129
It's campaign politics. Extreme anger does not a result from anything that Bernie has	GoneFishin	Feb 2016	#132
His own website even admits this..check this out..	pkdu	Feb 2016	#120
Apart from being one of the very few whites to campaign to try and get Jesse Jackson to be president	Kentonio	Feb 2016	#230
that required him to go out on a limb?	Pharaoh	Feb 2016	#135
No, that's not what I mean. Voting no on the Iraq War wasn't going out on a limb	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#162
Well tell me	Pharaoh	Feb 2016	#173
I'm not sure why you think voting one's conscience is "easy."	Chef Eric	Feb 2016	#176
It's not very difficult when the majority of your constituency agrees with you.	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#182
I'm not saying it was a civil rights matter.	Chef Eric	Feb 2016	#202
Bernie's opposition to the war is not the topic of this thread	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#205
But it IS the truth	dreamnightwind	Feb 2016	#39
^^^ The truth of the 2016 Democratic primary ^^^	senz	Feb 2016	#231
Why is this about POC and how to get their support ?	kacekwl	Feb 2016	#122
Right he SHOULD have been fighting to cut their aid and send them to jail.	Vincardog	Feb 2016	#6
Do you think every black person is on welfare and lives in the projects?	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#23
Seems as if they think so	KingFlorez	Feb 2016	#30
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#38
Calm down	KingFlorez	Feb 2016	#43
Yeah, right. That's what we all think.	JudyM	Feb 2016	#124
The majority would be if we followed policies advocated by one of the candidates.	Vincardog	Feb 2016	#35
that's just not true and you should consider how rude your comment is	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#41
Rude? Please enlighten me so I can improve in the future.	Vincardog	Feb 2016	#44
No, their candidate would further "reform" welfare so they wouldn't even get that - EOM	dreamnightwind	Feb 2016	#42
who the hell said black folks want welfare?	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#50
Oh right, none of them need it	dreamnightwind	Feb 2016	#57
I believe Bernie's campaign is tone deaf and some his supporters are rude	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#61
Right back atcha. - eom	dreamnightwind	Feb 2016	#63
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#67
Cool.	The Midway Rebel	Feb 2016	#74
Bravo!	The Midway Rebel	Feb 2016	#71
+1	progressoid	Feb 2016	#208
No	Lazy Daisy	Feb 2016	#146
Yes, I think they do think that	MaggieD	Feb 2016	#171
kick	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#7
Whether it's 'working' or not, it's still true. People will do with it what they want.	99th_Monkey	Feb 2016	#8
I'd like to hear some of the stories where HILLARY fought for ANY of us.....like EVER.	virtualobserver	Feb 2016	#12
She pretends to care about black people when it matters. Apparently, that's much more important	Chakab	Feb 2016	#102
she barely even pretends	virtualobserver	Feb 2016	#106
You're right about that.	Chakab	Feb 2016	#113
Nice link, thanks.	ornotna	Feb 2016	#18
No, it's not true. And you saying it over and over again won't make it true.	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#20
Yep	2pooped2pop	Feb 2016	#27
Actually yes, straight from their own words	Arazi	Feb 2016	#54
This ^ is the real tragedy. Thank you so much for posting this. n/t	99th_Monkey	Feb 2016	#69
Yup.	The Midway Rebel	Feb 2016	#93
What I'm saying is, we differ in our perceptions. My perception is .	99th_Monkey	Feb 2016	#89
Of course you can speak your truth	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#108
I never said "my truth must be your truth". Dont' put words in my mouth.	99th_Monkey	Feb 2016	#119
I didn't say you are doing that. My point is that that is the attitude of many of your fellow	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#125
Sorry, but I cannot speak for other Bernie supporters.	99th_Monkey	Feb 2016	#142
Its just that much harder with the full media blackout. It means we have to work 4 times harder to	litlbilly	Feb 2016	#66
Yep we have to work twice as hard to get half as far	SwampG8r	Feb 2016	#170
I take issue with your post.	NWCorona	Feb 2016	#9
People can choose who they want.	ananda	Feb 2016	#10
You've just proved Effie's point. nt	kstewart33	Feb 2016	#40
Not at all, it really is the truth	dreamnightwind	Feb 2016	#46
K & R, voting is a personal choice.	Thinkingabout	Feb 2016	#11
K & R	wysi	Feb 2016	#14
K&R!	sheshe2	Feb 2016	#16
Kick & recommended.	William769	Feb 2016	#17
I Think His History Of Siding With The NRA Done Him In	Corey_Baker08	Feb 2016	#19
It is a big problem.	Lucinda	Feb 2016	#190
That has nothing to do with this issue.	senz	Feb 2016	#236
I think Black folks already have their minds made up and it doesn't matter what is said or done.	Bread and Circus	Feb 2016	#21
Or you could try considering the possibility that your "truth" isn't true at all	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#29
Look, you folks linked a bunch of articles which had a lot of quotes that basically indicated people	Bread and Circus	Feb 2016	#147
More lectures about how we don't understand what's good for us.	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#156
So...just because people are Black I can't disagree with their political choices and think they...	Bread and Circus	Feb 2016	#169
^^ I guess this was good post :)	Bread and Circus	Feb 2016	#193
Good post? That post was	Autumn	Feb 2016	#209
Kind of like white folks eh?	redstateblues	Feb 2016	#212
Considering Sanders went from 3% to 30%+ you would be incorrect.	Bread and Circus	Feb 2016	#219
Like everyone else, they are	nichomachus	Feb 2016	#26
Too bad they refuse to let YOU determine for them what's in their best interest	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#37
Many people of all races vote against their best interests	dreamnightwind	Feb 2016	#49
The white republican rednecks in SC would also say	Lucky Luciano	Feb 2016	#246
You're not "aching for answers" - you're pissed off because black voters have decided to vote	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#247
I'm not really that pissed off. I'll be fine either way.	Lucky Luciano	Feb 2016	#248
This message was self-deleted by its author	John Poet	Feb 2016	#250
I don't think that was ever a serious attempt by the campaign.	morningfog	Feb 2016	#28
Thank You	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#34
Thank you	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#52
How do you think he could address the black community without ignoring the whites?	passiveporcupine	Feb 2016	#192
Campaigns are much more than rallies	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#200
Maybe I'm being tonedeaf, but I'm not hearing many answers to my questions	passiveporcupine	Feb 2016	#215
This ^^^^^^	radical noodle	Feb 2016	#226
A refrain that I've heard again and again...	Orrex	Feb 2016	#88
As a poli-sci student, I am a firm adherent to blaming	morningfog	Feb 2016	#111
How about the meme that African American voters have done their research	Arazi	Feb 2016	#33
His record is clear and consistent, they are simply buying a falsely labeled product insteed	Dragonfli	Feb 2016	#36
great analogy	AtomicKitten	Feb 2016	#47
why are you not decrying her vicious attack on "the mob" lol nt	msongs	Feb 2016	#80
In order to reply, you have to make sense, your post's meaning eludes me /nt	Dragonfli	Feb 2016	#91
OK. A lot of people are voting for Trump too. And a lot for Cruz. So what?	Doctor_J	Feb 2016	#45
well	Robbins	Feb 2016	#48
Try this instead, as it's true: "Bernie's been fighting for you all his life."	elleng	Feb 2016	#51
Funny how just about the only people who seem to think this are white Bernie supporters-most of whom	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#58
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#62
I'm a white Martin O'Malley supporter,	elleng	Feb 2016	#75
Don't buy it then.	SamKnause	Feb 2016	#53
When you phrase it like this, I will agree	Cheese Sandwich	Feb 2016	#60
Thank you	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#72
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#76
Yes, because noticing that someone is appealing almost exclusively to white people is "bringing race	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#81
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#90
If a black candidate only appealed to black voters, they would not be taken seriously	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#117
When it's being used as a wedge, yes it is	NWCorona	Feb 2016	#103
Yes and no	Cheese Sandwich	Feb 2016	#87
not just misunderstanding, many here flat out said people were lying that they were offended.	bettyellen	Feb 2016	#225
any suggestions?	TheFarseer	Feb 2016	#64
Bernie is fighting for everyone not just one group. Everyone!	bkkyosemite	Feb 2016	#68
Amen. Every working man and woman get's a break no matter what.	Phlem	Feb 2016	#110
Thanks for the info.	jalan48	Feb 2016	#70
Post removed	Post removed	Feb 2016	#83
Post removed	Post removed	Feb 2016	#94
I love you	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#107
Much love to you and Effie, too! You guys are true fighters. Don't give up standing for what you	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#116
I won't ever shut this mouth	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#126
FFS	melman	Feb 2016	#128
FFS is right! ;)	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#157
It's not a "claim," it's a FACT.	ThePhilosopher04	Feb 2016	#96
"tactic"?	basselope	Feb 2016	#98
I'm black and	malletgirl02	Feb 2016	#99
You shouldn't owe an explanation. And that's the point many of us POC's have been trying to make.	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#105
Actually, that's not the point. The issue is that plenty of people like the OP are actually angry	Chakab	Feb 2016	#140
Who says I'm not angry at HRC? I don't support either candidate. I've said this many times.	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#153
My post was an attack on the OP's logic not you directly. Sorry, if it didn't come	Chakab	Feb 2016	#158
Ah, no worries. I understand that this primary season brings on much passion. I wish some of it	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#160
I'm not enthusiastic about this election at all. I just really don't like the Clintons, and I	Chakab	Feb 2016	#177
Unfortunately the Party decided who should be the next President, but not everyone ...	slipslidingaway	Feb 2016	#148
No one disagrees that votes should be earned. Both candidates have to earn those votes as well.	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#151
The structure, like it or not, is about earning delegates and Money to run ads and buy ...	slipslidingaway	Feb 2016	#161
I'm voting because of the Supreme Court	rbrnmw	Feb 2016	#115
L_S is right	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#150
Kicked up HIGH!!!	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#100
so why's only one candidate still have to be protested by BLM?	MisterP	Feb 2016	#118
Actually, BLM did a recent protest at one of her events.	Lancero	Feb 2016	#130
And her own reaction was both vile and revealing.	Lizzie Poppet	Feb 2016	#145
"Isn't it time to try a different tactic for attracting the black vote?"	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#121
Screw tactics. Just tell the unvarnished truth about your policies.	Lizzie Poppet	Feb 2016	#154
I actually agree with all of this, except for your last statement, which is a matter of opinion...	Liberal_Stalwart71	Feb 2016	#159
Uh actually they are	PatrynXX	Feb 2016	#127
And rightly so. They've been sold out.	Bubzer	Feb 2016	#186
This argument is not working	Gothmog	Feb 2016	#131
Then don't believe it	AgingAmerican	Feb 2016	#133
As a Bernie supporter . . .	R. P. McMurphy	Feb 2016	#136
Thank you!	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#152
you pointedly leave something out and that is fear	azurnoir	Feb 2016	#180
Yep	MaggieD	Feb 2016	#138
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#141
K & R	SunSeeker	Feb 2016	#149
It seems to me that most older folks	PoliticalMalcontent	Feb 2016	#155
Not all older folks are for Clinton, on the contrary many are tired of for voting for ...	slipslidingaway	Feb 2016	#164
What EXACTLY has she done?	SoapBox	Feb 2016	#163
This thread is not about Hillary. It's about Bernie	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#168
Bernie's NAACP rating is 100% for the past 25 years	jg10003	Feb 2016	#172
Thats great. But the NAACP only scores whether he voted the way they wanted on particular bills	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#185
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Feb 2016	#174
I think white Bernie supporters, and I'm one, should just shut up and listen.	Beowulf	Feb 2016	#178
^^^THIS THIS THIS	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#191
You are most welcome!	Beowulf	Feb 2016	#195
This message was self-deleted by its author	jg10003	Feb 2016	#213
He also has less to gain.	jg10003	Feb 2016	#216
Yes, you stated it better than I did.	Beowulf	Feb 2016	#217
Thank you	jg10003	Feb 2016	#218
Why are you so bitter? Why are you so angry at Bernie?	Nyan	Feb 2016	#181
I'm neither bitter nor angry and I've said nothing that should make you think I am	EffieBlack	Feb 2016	#183
Hmph!	Chitown Kev	Feb 2016	#198
Okay...whatever that is.	Nyan	Feb 2016	#199
Why? Because it isn't reaching those in the reddest state in the union? Gimme a break.	Bubzer	Feb 2016	#184
....and that's sad, considering the alternative especially.	Schema Thing	Feb 2016	#188
We're living in bizarre times, my fellow progressives.	TIME TO PANIC	Feb 2016	#189
Let us worry about that. You should worry about your candidate.	Elmer S. E. Dump	Feb 2016	#194
Bernie HAS been fighting for all people.	democrank	Feb 2016	#196
All people should vote their conscience, be it for Bernie, Hillary or Trump.	Autumn	Feb 2016	#197
My opinion	noretreatnosurrender	Feb 2016	#201
"POC aren't buying "	dchill	Feb 2016	#203
Broad claims in a low turnout are unwise....	Spitfire of ATJ	Feb 2016	#204
Hey, I've got an idea	whatchamacallit	Feb 2016	#207
AGAIN I will say this...AS A POC	yuiyoshida	Feb 2016	#210
Effie specifically mentioned the black vote. Why in the world do you think she's "speaking" for you?	Number23	Feb 2016	#229
Read the tittle...POC	yuiyoshida	Feb 2016	#240
It's clear that she's specifically talking about black people. No one has applied the "fighting	Number23	Feb 2016	#255
You can lead a horse to water but, you can't make 'em drink.	Hiraeth	Feb 2016	#211
Sanders has never said that.	HooptieWagon	Feb 2016	#221
Different tactic?	HassleCat	Feb 2016	#227
I didn't know we had a lot of Black SC voters on DU. nt	artislife	Feb 2016	#228
Word, Effie! Thank you!	Cha	Feb 2016	#232
I like Bernie, but his criticism of Hillary's "clinging" to Obama's record was a mistake	CreekDog	Feb 2016	#233
Great, another post race-baiting for Hillary. n/t	That Guy 888	Feb 2016	#235
People doubt a lot of things that are true...	TCJ70	Feb 2016	#239
k & r	obamanut2012	Feb 2016	#241
Great post	Gothmog	Feb 2016	#243
It was a slap in the face for a person's life work. Wish someone would share the real reason.	Vinca	Feb 2016	#244
Whether anyone "buys" it or not, Bernie Sanders has indeed been "fighting for you" all his life ...	Martin Eden	Feb 2016	#249
Funny thing about truth	Jester Messiah	Feb 2016	#251
Clinton propaganda has apparently worked. [n/t]	Maedhros	Feb 2016	#253
One of the reasons why Sanders is not appealing to POC voters is why I am supporting Clinton	Gothmog	Feb 2016	#254

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