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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Religion & Spirituality » Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity (Group) » Honest question. I just ... » Reply #6

Response to erinlough (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:48 AM

6. As I'm a Catholic, I don't buy it either

While it may seem naive, I do believe that people can be good. Admittedly, not all people, not all the time.

I have a real problem with what is called "double predestination". This has God arbitrarily choosing some to be save;, while others are condemned, apparently just for the hell of it. As Albert Einstein said (albeit in another context), "God may be subtle, but he is not malicious."

I believe that Christ came to save all of humanity, not just some of humanity. "I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." -- John 12:32

Irresistable grace and unconditional election seem to rule out free will; and if you rule out free will, then you rule out sin. After all, every version of Christian moral theology I am familiar with has "full consent of the will" as a necessary constituent of any sinful act. (As George Carlin put it, "Ya gotta wanna!"

Perseverence of the saints, AKA "Once saved, always saved", does not work for me. I see gaining salvation much in the same way I see marriage. You don't just have a wedding and then coast smoothly on. Living happily ever takes work. And just as indifference and neglect can ruin a marriage, the same is true of salvation -- and one big mistake can ruin either one.

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