Morality is all about value judgements (Reply #84)

In the discussion thread: Why not deal seriously with those of us who see science and religion as equal? [View all]

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:02 AM

84. Morality is all about value judgements

Phelps can attack me because my reasoning is different to his and you can criticise me because I think my chosen deity opposes prejudice and discrimination (although, as an experiential faith, mine is based on personal gnosis rather than revelation) but let's be honest here, there is no scientific reason to oppose Phelps because science doesn't make value judgements at all. Presuming you're an atheist, you base your morality on compassion and human empathy. So why the fuss when I say that my chosen deity encourages me to base my morality on the same thing?

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95 replies	Author	Time	Post
Why not deal seriously with those of us who see science and religion as equal? [View all]	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	OP
I have never had a problem with separating both. In fact I think the catholic church	southernyankeebelle	Jun 2013	#1
That really doesn't answer the question.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#5
For me they are equal. But honestly I think people go bonkers over this issue. But you	southernyankeebelle	Jun 2013	#8
If one produces knowledge that is true for all and the other doesn't, how can they be equal?	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#10
Your getting way to heavy for me. You tell me what you think.	southernyankeebelle	Jun 2013	#12
I already did in the OP.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#15
Well you take care. Maybe the big thinkers can get more into then I. I'm not an expert in	southernyankeebelle	Jun 2013	#20
religion and science are not equals	DonCoquixote	Jun 2013	#78
to explain	DonCoquixote	Jun 2013	#79
So should we take seriously those who claim they are equal?	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#90
no	DonCoquixote	Jun 2013	#95
One popular answer is	skepticscott	Jun 2013	#2
And yet religion cannot even answer the "why" at all.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#9
They have nothing to do with each other and should never be compared, contrasted or equated.	truebluegreen	Jun 2013	#3
Great answer.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#6
Unfortunately that is not true.	Warren Stupidity	Jun 2013	#24
I get that it happens,	truebluegreen	Jun 2013	#42
I don't think "equal" is a relevant metric here.	TygrBright	Jun 2013	#4
I would agree. So should we take seriously those who assert their equality?	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#7
I imagine if they are serious, and you want to engage them fruitfully and respectfully...	TygrBright	Jun 2013	#11
If their entire premise is false yet they assert the opposite, how can try be taken seriously?	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#14
Perhaps we could class religion with patriotism?	muriel_volestrangler	Jun 2013	#17
agree...	madrchsod	Jun 2013	#13
Hard for me to marry the two subjects.	janlyn	Jun 2013	#16
I believe in both very much!	hrmjustin	Jun 2013	#18
And?	skepticscott	Jun 2013	#19
Just a statement my friend!	hrmjustin	Jun 2013	#23
Are they equal?	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#31
Interesting question to with I do not know exactly how to respond. Science tells us how things work	hrmjustin	Jun 2013	#48
With respect, you are dodging the question with nonsense.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#53
For me yes. In the end yes.	hrmjustin	Jun 2013	#54
Then as the original question posed, why should you be taken seriously?	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#55
People can take me how they want. I don't claim to be an expert on anything.	hrmjustin	Jun 2013	#57
Nope	WovenGems	Jun 2013	#21
Which is liquid and which is static?	LTX	Jun 2013	#32
Defined	WovenGems	Jun 2013	#33
Oh. Ok.	LTX	Jun 2013	#34
Truth	WovenGems	Jun 2013	#35
I think your reference points may be a bit too narrow.	LTX	Jun 2013	#37
Oxford Group	WovenGems	Jun 2013	#39
Now I know that your reference points are too narrow. n/t	LTX	Jun 2013	#40
And how does one expand the reference points?	WovenGems	Jun 2013	#41
Well, a start would be questioning your own	LTX	Jun 2013	#43
Religion hasn't changed for hundreds of years??	Thats my opinion	Jun 2013	#69
I think you responded to the wrong post. n/t	LTX	Jun 2013	#70
So tell us then, what IS religion all about?	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#74
Religion has indeed changed.	trotsky	Jun 2013	#45
They're different things entirely.	rug	Jun 2013	#22
He didn't ask whether they were the same thing...	Act_of_Reparation	Jun 2013	#25
I didn't expect any straightforward answers to this.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#51
It's an appropriate answer to a poor question.	rug	Jun 2013	#59
He asked if they were equal. Period.	rug	Jun 2013	#58
This message was self-deleted by its author	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#61
Of course you didn't.	rug	Jun 2013	#63
This message was self-deleted by its author	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#64
That's exactly what you wrote.	rug	Jun 2013	#66
This message was self-deleted by its author	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#71
He also wrote half a dozen other sentences...	Act_of_Reparation	Jun 2013	#65
I did read the entire OP.	rug	Jun 2013	#67
Then you didn't read it very carefully	Act_of_Reparation	Jun 2013	#75
Apparently I read it more clearly than you.	rug	Jun 2013	#76
He does not have an answer. He never does. Its always the same, day after day, post after post.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#81
Some are simply unable to accept that they may be wrong. This is an example.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#72
Lol.	rug	Jun 2013	#77
See what I mean? More nonsensical bullshit. Always the same.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#60
Outside of mathematics, is anything really equal?	ZombieHorde	Jun 2013	#26
They really have completely different functions.	Deep13	Jun 2013	#27
They might be equivalent forces in some lives	Warpy	Jun 2013	#28
Why not? Because that would be silly.	bowens43	Jun 2013	#29
They ARE equal but their individual strengths are not	Prophet 451	Jun 2013	#30
I would strongly disagree with this:	trotsky	Jun 2013	#36
"Religion/philosophy tells us" - religion "tells", philosophy "discusses".	Warren Stupidity	Jun 2013	#38
Good distinction.	trotsky	Jun 2013	#44
Philosophy does not research	Bad Thoughts	Jun 2013	#46
talk to the theory of consciousness people about their lack of field research. nt.	Warren Stupidity	Jun 2013	#47
i think that definition of 'philosophy' is both overly restrictive..	Phillip McCleod	Jun 2013	#50
I don't suppose you have done any research into what philophsers actually do.	Thats my opinion	Jun 2013	#68
That is YOUR question up there, TMO. Why won't you respond to it?	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#73
I guess the tough questions frighten you. And I can understand why.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#89
Phelps actually doesn't do that	Prophet 451	Jun 2013	#82
You judge him,and he judges you.	trotsky	Jun 2013	#83
Morality is all about value judgements	Prophet 451	Jun 2013	#84
How can you possibly know whether or not Phelps ALSO thinks his faith is based on	trotsky	Jun 2013	#85
No, but I can listen to his sermons	Prophet 451	Jun 2013	#86
Again, how do you know?	trotsky	Jun 2013	#87
In order...	Prophet 451	Jun 2013	#91
As long as you think you can read Phelps' mind...	trotsky	Jun 2013	#92
sigh I give up	Prophet 451	Jun 2013	#93
Yeah, I know.	trotsky	Jun 2013	#94
Umm...	gcomeau	Jun 2013	#88
I've thought for some time now that	moobu2	Jun 2013	#49
I think you nailed it.	cleanhippie	Jun 2013	#52
^^^^^	mike_c	Jun 2013	#56
Like the rough sketch that led to an important painting, worth the attention	dimbear	Jun 2013	#62
Science is the application of physical processes to determine physical outcomes. Religion is the	ladjf	Jun 2013	#80

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