Religion

Phillip McCleod

(1,837 posts)

291. link plz.

Reply to okasha (Reply #290)

Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:43 PM

Apr 2013

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Militant atheism has become a religion [View all] DonViejo Mar 2013 OP

"What does atheism have to offer that’s worth fighting for? " amuse bouche Mar 2013 #1

What are atheists fighting for? Freedom. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #7

I have to disagree with you Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #19

This point I take marions ghost Mar 2013 #24

Why didn't you say Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #30

This seems a good time to point out that was marions ghost's 1st post in this thread muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #32

thanks marions ghost Mar 2013 #35

what first post are you referring to? marions ghost Mar 2013 #34

"We all know that organized religion's achilles heel is what SOME of its practitioners get up to" AlbertCat Apr 2013 #71

Is God an anthropomorphic deity with superpowers, or is he a metaphor? backscatter712 Mar 2013 #37

honesty and freedom? Skittles Apr 2013 #251

Yes, honesty and freedom Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #252

um...........no Skittles Apr 2013 #261

Thank you, backscatter Brainstormy Apr 2013 #201

Wouldn't freedom consist in the ability to be both rational and/or spiritual? patrice Apr 2013 #235

What is "spiritual" anyways? backscatter712 Apr 2013 #244

Personally, I think people are referring to emergent properties of physical things, when they use patrice Apr 2013 #248

One person's reality is another person's illusion Starboard Tack Mar 2013 #58

Martin Luther King believed skepticscott Mar 2013 #59

MLK believed a lot of things. Starboard Tack Mar 2013 #60

Nice job of backpedaling skepticscott Mar 2013 #62

When it comes to personal religious beliefs, those who feel the need to convert others are insecure. Starboard Tack Mar 2013 #63

One person's reality is another person's illusion AlbertCat Apr 2013 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author cbayer Apr 2013 #84

Reality is that not everyone shares your world view. Deal with it, Albert. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #88

What does "shates" mean? AlbertCat Apr 2013 #89

Typo. Shares. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #90

No, that is false. Reality is real. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #104

"Reality is objective and consistent." - Really? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #113

You can't use your own confusion as evidence against objectivity! Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #114

I'm not trying to disprove objectivity, only it's relevance to the perception of reality. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #116

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein patrice Apr 2013 #234

This would be better suited to the interfaith group. Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #2

If by "better suited"... gcomeau Mar 2013 #5

No, not really--the Interfaith SOP doesn't marry well with topics that involve challenges to belief MADem Apr 2013 #105

It's not a "play nice" group, it's a "generally agree with me or leave" group. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #109

It's a "follow the SOP group" but you have been told that already. MADem Apr 2013 #110

I made fun of no one. When ideas are not open to scrutiny and criticism and left to stand or fall cleanhippie Apr 2013 #111

Read the SOP, and then read your post where you opined about the MADem Apr 2013 #112

You wanted an "agree with me or leave" group, and you got it. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #134

You don't have any clue as to my beliefs or lack thereof. I've made it a point to not share MADem Apr 2013 #138

Blah blah blah. You wanted an "agree with me or leave" group and you got it. Enjoy. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #140

Thanks SO much for your demonstration of incivility! You are working SO hard to prove my point! MADem Apr 2013 #141

Thanks SO much for demonstrating that you are unable to see past your own prejudices. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #143

Keep digging that hole--put some wellie in it, now! nt MADem Apr 2013 #146

Yeah, that's it. Good one! You really got me. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #148

So according to the SOP of your group deucemagnet Apr 2013 #135

The wording of the SOP is quite plain to anyone who has minimal comprehension MADem Apr 2013 #137

OK, so let's assume that I have, at least, minimal comprehension, deucemagnet Apr 2013 #139

I told you--I don't think you'll find that here. It's not an issue. If it becomes one, MADem Apr 2013 #142

Well, if I'm not going to get a straight answer, deucemagnet Apr 2013 #153

As I stated above, it's an "agree with me or leave" group. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #155

Your disruptive and aggressive behavior is noted. MADem Apr 2013 #161

Blah blah blah. Enjoy your "agree with me or leave" group. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #167

Until I get a clear response, I tend to agree with you. deucemagnet Apr 2013 #170

You got a straight answer, you just don't like it. MADem Apr 2013 #158

That is not my supposition at all. deucemagnet Apr 2013 #169

Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? MADem Apr 2013 #171

So, since you're determined to dodge my questions and project upon me for asking simple questions, deucemagnet Apr 2013 #172

No. We simply don't tolerate rudeness and name-calling in the group. You get your drama on here. MADem Apr 2013 #173

Thank you for finally answering my question. deucemagnet Apr 2013 #175

I answered it from the git-go, you just didn't like the answer and pretended to not understand. MADem Apr 2013 #176

OK, I still wish you well with your new group deucemagnet Apr 2013 #177

may i say.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #193

How ironic skepticscott Apr 2013 #184

It's not ironic, it's fucking hypocritical. Shows the true "agree with me or leave" nature cleanhippie Apr 2013 #188

Which is worse, calling creationism absurd or calling people who believe creationism dumbasses? cleanhippie Apr 2013 #186

I don't really care--you can call anyone whatever you want, you just aren't going to do it in a MADem Apr 2013 #189

Exactly. You don't care if one of your own does it, just those you hate, like me. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #206

Sounds to me like you're choking on a fishbone, with all this snark and phony ROFL-ing. MADem Apr 2013 #212

You tell yourself whatever you need to if it makes you fell better. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #213

You're clearly the one who feels badly. MADem Apr 2013 #215

Enjoy your "agree with me or leave group." And continue to have a nice day. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #216

8. MADem Apr 2013 #220

9. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #253

Told you so. Exactly the response that was expected. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #168

Just for you. MADem Apr 2013 #174

Fail. Epic fail. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #183

Aw, man. Iggo Mar 2013 #3

Evidently Jean Paul Sartre was right. There's no exit. n/t dimbear Apr 2013 #237

Remains an incredibly stupid article on re-post gcomeau Mar 2013 #4

Atheists have used things like guns and bombs to enforce their ideas Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #21

Ummm... no. gcomeau Mar 2013 #22

Ummm...Yes Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #25

Again, they enforced COMMUNISM gcomeau Mar 2013 #28

Yes, they enforced Communism Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #31

Try and wrap your noodle around this... gcomeau Mar 2013 #33

As I said, they enforced atheism by force Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #36

Read for comprehension. gcomeau Mar 2013 #38

And you are missing my point Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #40

Hey, HB, don't forget to use your "league of militant atheists"! cleanhippie Mar 2013 #44

No I got your point fine. It's just wrong. gcomeau Mar 2013 #45

The two examples that I gave were of atheists who enforced atheism BY FORCE Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #46

No they were not. gcomeau Mar 2013 #47

Also enforcing ATHEISM by force. Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #48

Now you're just ignoring me completely. gcomeau Mar 2013 #49

I am answering you Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #51

No, you're STILL ignoring me. gcomeau Mar 2013 #52

Idiotic from the get-go skepticscott Mar 2013 #55

Yes, you are being idiotic from the start Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #108

You didn't say Stalin "tried" and wasn't too successful skepticscott Apr 2013 #121

Ok, change it to Stalin and Hoxha tried really, really hard to force atheism on their peoples. Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #132

How? Did they go door-to-door like bands of anti-mormons? Gore1FL Apr 2013 #179

Denial is not just a river in Egypt Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #180

I am happy to discuss the facts. Gore1FL Apr 2013 #187

No, you are obviously NOT prepared to discuss the facts Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #199

Except that no atheist ever pushed atheism for the purpose of atheism Gore1FL Apr 2013 #200

This message was self-deleted by its author Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #202

What rituals were these people forces to perform? Gore1FL Apr 2013 #204

"You atheist ARSEHOLES"? Is that all you have left is namecalling? cleanhippie Apr 2013 #214

Will you please make your broad-brush, personal attacks more subtle? ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #217

"You atheist arseholes." Apophis Apr 2013 #218

Your posts continue to be a bountiful source of Christian love. trotsky Apr 2013 #221

We're "arseholes"? That's rich, coming from a bigoted moron. Fuck off back to church, mr blur Apr 2013 #222

Please do not call names in here. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #223

Why is this obvious violation of TOS still up? Warpy Apr 2013 #226

There are no moderators. There are hosts who can block the poster if they all agree. MADem Apr 2013 #249

How many? Iggo Apr 2013 #232

Hold the ad-hominems if you want anyone to take your arguments seriously. n/t backscatter712 Apr 2013 #250

You're completely hopeless. gcomeau Apr 2013 #257

Well, you just cashed in any gold stamps you might have had left. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #259

Of course, our friend here has already backpedaled skepticscott Apr 2013 #185

He still called us assholes. Iggo Apr 2013 #233

where do you get these ideas? STALIN REFORMED ChairmanAgnostic Apr 2013 #225

Remember the buckets people used to bang at protests? napoleon_in_rags Apr 2013 #131

They enforced cults of personality. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #39

They enforced cults of personality. AlbertCat Apr 2013 #73

No he didnt enforce atheism Bradical79 Apr 2013 #86

You should read this post SpartanDem Apr 2013 #97

Ok did. gcomeau Apr 2013 #99

I think don'the claim was that they're doing it "in the name of atheism" SpartanDem Apr 2013 #144

Stll not getting it. gcomeau Apr 2013 #255

No, the adoption of atheism was a big part of why they were doing it. SpartanDem Apr 2013 #275

Uh-huh... gcomeau Apr 2013 #277

You're in denial of history SpartanDem Apr 2013 #278

*I'm* in denial of history? gcomeau Apr 2013 #279

And atheism was a part of that dogma SpartanDem Apr 2013 #280

SOMETIMES gcomeau Apr 2013 #281

That's quite a stretch Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #282

You're right motivation matters SpartanDem Apr 2013 #283

You're missing something. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #284

I never said they were doing for atheism's sake SpartanDem Apr 2013 #285

It's perfectly clear... just completely irrelevant. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #286

Apparently it is not SpartanDem Apr 2013 #288

Do you not understand what a "composition fallacy" is? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #292

Not much use to deny Stalin took extreme measures. After he ended his stay in seminary for politics dimbear Mar 2013 #61

Atheists may have their own corrupt governments to support Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #68

Did these figures from history act because they believed in atheism or because they despised dimbear Apr 2013 #69

Name them skepticscott Apr 2013 #74

The elimination of religion was a major a ideological goal of the Soveit Union SpartanDem Apr 2013 #91

Go back and read skepticscott Apr 2013 #92

That was not the initial claim that started this thread SpartanDem Apr 2013 #93

Which was not what I requested evidence for skepticscott Apr 2013 #95

You mean SpartanDem Apr 2013 #96

If you have accounts from some attesting to that skepticscott Apr 2013 #101

You don't think those methods constituted force? SpartanDem Apr 2013 #136

I'm sure you'd love to redefine "force" skepticscott Apr 2013 #181

I'm not trying to redefine anything SpartanDem Apr 2013 #190

Bullshit..you're trying to do exactly that skepticscott Apr 2013 #192

i think what atheists object to.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #75

Still waiting for you to back up even ONE thing you claimed here skepticscott Apr 2013 #107

STILL waiting for that evidence skepticscott Apr 2013 #117

stalin took marx seriously? Are you kidding? ChairmanAgnostic Apr 2013 #224

Dare one interject Hitler and Catholicism? longship Apr 2013 #129

they used bombs to enforce their sociopathy Skittles Apr 2013 #262

For the record, I do not believe anyone suggested this be posted in interfaith group. cbayer Mar 2013 #6

Here is good. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #8

Thanks back scatter. Agree with you. cbayer Mar 2013 #9

Please read... DonViejo Mar 2013 #10

Yes, I saw that. I was also involved in the hosts discussion about the lock and the cbayer Mar 2013 #11

Thank you for the clarification... DonViejo Mar 2013 #13

You are most welcome. cbayer Mar 2013 #14

No, someone suggested it. In fact the mod who locked in in GD did. gcomeau Mar 2013 #23

Agree. I tink it would be a trainwreck to have something this divisive in that fledgling group. cbayer Mar 2013 #26

"worth fighting for?" dimbear Mar 2013 #12

how did i not read this before? Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #287

Another guy attacking an non-existent strawman, also sick of the "militant" label... Humanist_Activist Mar 2013 #15

This discussion will end well.... Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #16

By the time you reposted here, the title and subtitle on Salon had changed muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #17

Just as an aside Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2013 #18

And, as a further aside ... Jim__ Mar 2013 #20

Right. Shadowflash Mar 2013 #27

I am a militant non-stamp-collector Act_of_Reparation Mar 2013 #50

Wow! Shadowflash Mar 2013 #53

"Activist atheism reflects trauma" marions ghost Mar 2013 #29

The traumas are very real. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #41

For sure marions ghost Mar 2013 #42

+1000! Shadowflash Mar 2013 #43

You're still apparently clueless skepticscott Mar 2013 #56

you mean the made up difference? Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #64

Atheism is a lack of belief in gods skepticscott Mar 2013 #65

my point is that the distinction is entirely fabricated Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #66

I identify as both skepticscott Mar 2013 #67

A good article that was completely mistitled, and misrepresented by it's headline. kwassa Mar 2013 #54

It was not in any way a good article. gcomeau Mar 2013 #57

Militant atheism has become a religion AlbertCat Apr 2013 #70

magical horsefart has become a telethon! Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #76

Oh, stop it. Just stop it. Warpy Apr 2013 #77

The argument itself is utterly pointless Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #78

Most atheists who've been at it a while Warpy Apr 2013 #79

That's certainly a polite attitude, but occasionally I point out that where there is much religion dimbear Apr 2013 #106

That's exactly what it is. Tu quoque. n/t backscatter712 Apr 2013 #94

Mostly, but... TreasonousBastard Apr 2013 #80

Who does that? Who "proclaim(s) absolutely and loudly that there are no gods..."? cleanhippie Apr 2013 #81

You need me to find them for you? Not... TreasonousBastard Apr 2013 #82

No, I want you to find them for you. You say they exist, yet refuse to provide any evidence at all cleanhippie Apr 2013 #83

You make a claim to disparage an entire group then refuse to support that claim with evidence. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #85

One can act dogmatically while claiming a lack of belief. kwassa Apr 2013 #98

Does your god exist, kwassa? n/t trotsky Apr 2013 #100

What dogma is that, dear? Warpy Apr 2013 #102

Well, to be honest ... kwassa Apr 2013 #118

I think you are confused Warpy Apr 2013 #122

I think you need to read a dictionary. No dogma is required to be dogmatic. kwassa Apr 2013 #123

You can't prove a negative Warpy Apr 2013 #126

You avoid the issue. kwassa Apr 2013 #127

Which atheists? skepticscott Apr 2013 #115

Oh no, many fundamentalists will be happy to discuss their evidence with you. kwassa Apr 2013 #119

What evidence? That their god exists? skepticscott Apr 2013 #120

What did I miss? kwassa Apr 2013 #124

Read my post 115 again skepticscott Apr 2013 #145

If it was spelled out clearly I wouldn't ask for clarification, would I? kwassa Apr 2013 #149

Spell it out? Are you serious? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #147

I never said that atheists had a dogma, unless they are hard atheists, of course. kwassa Apr 2013 #151

I never said atheists had dogma, except when I did! cleanhippie Apr 2013 #156

and where was that? kwassa Apr 2013 #160

98 & 151 Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #164

There is a distinction between soft and hard atheists kwassa Apr 2013 #165

Vocabulary... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #166

I've spent endless time on this group talking to atheists who think they have no beliefs and are not kwassa Apr 2013 #178

yep same thing happening with the word 'militant' in this thread. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #247

Forget fundies, why don't you answer the question, kwassa? trotsky Apr 2013 #133

Not much. kwassa Apr 2013 #150

OK, so you don't have an answer to the question (specifically WHAT evidence), trotsky Apr 2013 #152

This should be interesting, assuming you actually get an answer. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #157

7 kwassa Apr 2013 #159

Fascinating. trotsky Apr 2013 #162

I think you drew an unsupported conclusion. kwassa Apr 2013 #163

I'm sure you do. The truth hurts, huh? trotsky Apr 2013 #182

Still waiting for the justification. trotsky Apr 2013 #258

While I'm sorry you are offended by some people who are rude Warpy Apr 2013 #87

k&r Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #125

I'm not in the least offended, although... TreasonousBastard Apr 2013 #130

It is as if you didn't read her post #87 .. eom Kolesar Apr 2013 #227

Huh? Of course I read it and understood every word. I simply... TreasonousBastard Apr 2013 #229

Very true Warpy. Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #154

Ah, those horrible militant extreme atheists! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #103

This is the dumbest OP I've ever read. Apophis Apr 2013 #128

Given the persecution of atheists in places like Bangladesh, maybe we should be militant. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #191

Lately I'm more worried about getting the banhammer as PZ calls it. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #194

Malarkey. No one has been banned from this site or blocked from this group cbayer Apr 2013 #195

Just seems tense. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #196

Really? When has a resurgence in the progressive religious community caused cbayer Apr 2013 #197

When? Every time. 1995, the New Age movement. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #198

What happened in 1995? And how do you equate the New Age movement with progressive cbayer Apr 2013 #205

you can't claim the civil rights movement or anti-vietnam as religious revivals. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #207

I don't claim anything at all. You, on the other hand, would be wildly off base cbayer Apr 2013 #208

thanks for your review of my work. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #209

I will agree not to make this about you, as it really does not serve any purpose. cbayer Apr 2013 #211

Horseshit skepticscott Apr 2013 #210

Singing kumbaya tends to ignore/dismiss the very real problems of religion, trotsky Apr 2013 #203

Fail. Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #219

What's wrong with becoming rich on the lecture circuit? Kolesar Apr 2013 #228

No matter how wrong religion is, INDIVIDUAL religious persons CAN stand at the nexus between patrice Apr 2013 #230

more insulting claptrap. sorry you don't get to define the terms. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #236

Ha, ha. I was actually referring to previous usages, by others & then you proved THEIR point. wow. patrice Apr 2013 #239

i know you think you just scored a big point. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #240

A rationalist reads my mind???? wow, again. You don't know shit about what I think. nt patrice Apr 2013 #242

Yes there are atheists that are just as militant as believers are. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #231

we don't get to define words for ourselves and impose them on the world. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #238

So, words have no connotative meanings. Poetry means nothing. & Usage NEVER changes. patrice Apr 2013 #241

my point is one individual cannot unilaterally make up terms and impose them. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #243

And that would apply to BOTH sides of this question, so about that, we agree. patrice Apr 2013 #245

that's right it does apply to both sides. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #246

I would never call anyone here militant because it might insult them. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #256

'vocal' i appreciate Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #264

I get along with the athiests here because I try to be respectful of their views. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #270

i've noticed that and have to say.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #271

I am glad it did. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #272

i suppose i'm so used to having my defenses up all the time.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #273

I always like people who are honest. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #274

maybe that's why i keep holding out such hope.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #276

Would you agree there are atheists that are hard edge and are uncomprimising as some religious folk. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #254

I don't know of any atheists skepticscott Apr 2013 #260

i'd be satisfied with a sensible and reliable definition of 'god'.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #266

do all religious people cling to God or just fundamentalists? hrmjustin Apr 2013 #268

i would agree that there are some atheists who are willing to speak openly.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #263

You make some really good point here and I appreciate that. cbayer Apr 2013 #265

i don't doubt that a great deal of lashing out occurs.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #267

You know sometimes being in NYC I just expect atheists to speak their mind. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #269

It's harder to work on your brain XRubicon Apr 2013 #289

Perhaps one of the reasons okasha Apr 2013 #290

link plz. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #291