Religion

SharonAnn

(13,771 posts)

6. Gary Wills' very readable book "Papal Sin" is about this Doctrine of Infallibilty

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:41 PM

Feb 2013

and how it corrupted the Church.

Lord Acton was a Catholic layman and theologian who strongly object to this doctrine with the words "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Bet you didn't know where this saying came from. It was from the battles over the Doctrine of Infallibility.

Gary Wills also said in this book that Church had to get over it's "pelvic issues."

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What went wrong in the Catholic Church? [View all] Angry Dragon Feb 2013 OP

"Insular groups of men do bad things" SharonAnn Feb 2013 #1

The notion of papal infallibility. riqster Feb 2013 #2

Gary Wills' very readable book "Papal Sin" is about this Doctrine of Infallibilty SharonAnn Feb 2013 #6

Papal infallibility wasn't even an officially stated doctrine till the late 1800's. Squinch Feb 2013 #76

Regarding your comment, rug Feb 2013 #3

Proves that "Insular groups of men" don't confront their wrongs. Outsiders, however, do. SharonAnn Feb 2013 #7

Most institutional elites are composed of insular groups of men. rug Feb 2013 #11

Does that somehow diminish the fact that in THIS case, her point is valid? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #16

It clarifies that this is not unique. rug Feb 2013 #21

Was that ever in question? Did she make that claim? Nope. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #28

Certainly it's a valid point, clarified. rug Feb 2013 #29

Well I guess she should be thankful for that tangent clarification. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #35

In fact, the statement itself underscores its validity. rug Feb 2013 #38

What a wonder it must be to live in a world where you get to make it up as you go along. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #43

Don't forget to send me a postcard. rug Feb 2013 #66

I have read that article and found it a lot of bunk when I read it and still do Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #10

You think acknowledging the role of the media is "a lot of bunk"? rug Feb 2013 #12

No Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #13

I must have missed that quote. rug Feb 2013 #22

Priests abused children for a hundred years and the church covered up the crimes Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #25

I find your selective facts to be self-serving. rug Feb 2013 #27

Please explain what selective facts are self-serving Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #31

What was idiotic about your comment is that it had just released a statement thanking the press. rug Feb 2013 #40

So you are saying that the Church had no idea that they were engaging in criminal activities?? Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #44

Again, the inferences you make are a wonder to behold. rug Feb 2013 #47

My inferences may be miracles Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #64

That's better. A few more exchanges and I think you'll get it. rug Feb 2013 #67

Snark Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #69

When he says "thanks for doing that", I think he means... cleanhippie Feb 2013 #14

I know. It's terrible when a convenient narrative is interrupted. rug Feb 2013 #24

His sentiment of thanks to the media would seem more genuine if the church followed with cleanhippie Feb 2013 #30

Do you think that God can "be very impressed"? rug Feb 2013 #41

Going by the Catholic idea of what god is, I would say yes. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #45

Once again, you display an ignorance of what you're attacking. rug Feb 2013 #46

You are entitled to your opinion, regardless of how wrong it may be. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #49

As are you. But you are not entitled to your own facts. rug Feb 2013 #52

I hope you remember your own advice. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #53

Always. You should stick to posting facts. rug Feb 2013 #54

I hope you remember your own advice. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #55

Always. You should too. rug Feb 2013 #56

I hope you remember your own advice. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #57

54 rug Feb 2013 #58

There are facts about "god"? Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #62

Pay attention. He made a factual statement. rug Feb 2013 #68

So you agree that there are no facts about god? Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #70

I agree that various religions have made statements about God. rug Feb 2013 #73

Errr - Wasn't Jesus an anthropomorphism of God? intaglio Feb 2013 #48

Shhhhh, why get in the way of a perfectly good irrational response? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #50

Somebody should get you a dictionary for Christmas. rug Feb 2013 #75

Somebody should get you a clue. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #84

If I do, it won't be from you. rug Feb 2013 #85

Wouldn't expect you to. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #86

As to your two questions, rug Feb 2013 #87

Thats it? Thats all you have? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #88

No, I have lots more, but you know the saying. rug Feb 2013 #89

Bwahahahahaha! A Bible verse! He threw a bible verse at me! cleanhippie Feb 2013 #90

Yes, I think of you when I read it. rug Feb 2013 #91

Thats weird. Thanks, I guess? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #92

Errr - no. rug Feb 2013 #51

Err yes. Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #63

Err - no. rug Feb 2013 #65

Whereas yours are merely confusing because of lack of clarity about terms used intaglio Feb 2013 #98

The difference is quite simple. rug Feb 2013 #99

In incarnation a god comes down and becomes flesh intaglio Feb 2013 #104

You left out the capital. rug Feb 2013 #105

Many deities become incarnate intaglio Feb 2013 #107

So it's said. But that would still not be anthropormorhism. rug Feb 2013 #109

Stop denying what is inconvenient to you intaglio Feb 2013 #112

Stop denying the dictionary rug Feb 2013 #113

As Webster gives the roots in the form I do intaglio Feb 2013 #114

Oh, the capitalization of proper nouns is rooted in religion? rug Feb 2013 #115

I did not use incarnation as a proper noun intaglio Feb 2013 #118

While we're on the subject you should study the difference between a sect and a religion. rug Feb 2013 #119

A sect is loosely a group of people with different religious beliefs and practises from others intaglio Feb 2013 #120

Now you history is off too. rug Feb 2013 #121

Please study history not fantasies from Catholic perspective intaglio Feb 2013 #123

What fantastic perspective are you coming from? rug Feb 2013 #124

Study history not personal Catholic fantasies intaglio Feb 2013 #125

So far you have not show one through five. rug Feb 2013 #126

One at a time intaglio Feb 2013 #127

I don't understand the significance of this guy's statement. Squinch Feb 2013 #77

It contradicts the OP's comment. rug Feb 2013 #78

Do you think the statement has any intrinsic significance, or are you citing it to refute the OP? Squinch Feb 2013 #79

There is value in this acknowledgement but mainly it corrects the OP. rug Feb 2013 #80

It was said this past week. It seems clearly a token from an organization that has been knowingly Squinch Feb 2013 #81

A token? rug Feb 2013 #82

What do you think the impact will be? Squinch Feb 2013 #93

The impact is already being felt. rug Feb 2013 #94

The US Catholic Conference of Bishops instituted a clear policy on reporting ten years ago, Squinch Feb 2013 #95

Abuse, coverup, and nonreporting are three different things. rug Feb 2013 #101

Last week, in fact, Squinch Feb 2013 #106

That's a close one but it's part of the ongoing discovery process in existing litigation. rug Feb 2013 #108

Yes. But if I found that you'd make up another new rule in order to make it acceptable to you. Squinch Feb 2013 #110

This is a massively deep and complex issue. cbayer Feb 2013 #4

Yes, the son of a friend of mine was counseled by a serving priest that SharonAnn Feb 2013 #8

I think it's very important not to conflate pedophilia with homosexuality. cbayer Feb 2013 #59

If you have knowledge that a child has been sexually abused skepticscott Feb 2013 #83

south park covered this extensively. Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #5

Watch the HBO Documentary: Mea Maxima Culpa. It really explains "WHY"... Moonwalk Feb 2013 #9

EXACTLY! The church NEEDS it's clergy to be seen as above the rest of us, and immune from cleanhippie Feb 2013 #18

No it doesn't. This is all about institutional bunker mentality, not theology. rug Feb 2013 #26

And that bunker is buttressed by theology. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #34

You once again have it ass backwards. rug Feb 2013 #39

Your opinion is highly valued. Thanks. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #42

Sorry, can'y say the same. rug Feb 2013 #74

the church is all about the money 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #15

The power is more important to them than the money Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #17

Money IS power, no? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #19

Yes it is Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #23

I've not seen lasting power without the wealth. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #33

I would think it would depend if that power was used for good or evil Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #36

agree n/t 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #20

Appropriate toon: mr blur Feb 2013 #32

I like it Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #37

The power structure is the problem Freddie Feb 2013 #60

Agree. Local congregations tend to have a lot more control over those within their church. cbayer Feb 2013 #61

And that is the way it should be Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #72

It's not as if something has recently gone wrong. Those who know their history know dimbear Feb 2013 #71

they have always been a corrupt organization Marrah_G Feb 2013 #96

Xianity took over the political-religious offices of Rome Bad Thoughts Feb 2013 #97

I agree with you Dorian Gray Feb 2013 #100

how many centuries should we look through to find the answer? madrchsod Feb 2013 #102

The Catholic Church has a history of corruption dating back well over 1000 years. Bradical79 Feb 2013 #103

these last two posts have it exactly right. Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #111

There are child rape apologists in this forum? Where? cbayer Feb 2013 #117

Well... gcomeau Feb 2013 #116

Two thousand years of the Iron Law of Oligarchy at work... backscatter712 Feb 2013 #122