Religion

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)

23. When people persist in believing

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:35 PM

Nov 2012

that their god created the whole world and everything in it less than 10,000 years ago, in spite of libraries of well-publicized, endlessly repeated evidence to the contrary, how is that anything but a delusion and a form of mental illnes, and how is it "inappropriate" to label it as such? Yes, it may ruffle the feathers of some fundies and their apologists here, but who gives a flying fuck?

How is it not a delusion to think that your god will help the political candidate you want to win, or the field goal kicker on the other team to miss?

And if you can point to ANYONE who claims to know exactly how the universe really is, please do so. Sagan certainly never claimed to. Since we both know you can't, the delusional thinking you refer to doesn't even exist.

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Happy Birthday, Carl Sagan! [View all] cleanhippie Nov 2012 OP

Carl would have been 78 years old today pokerfan Nov 2012 #1

Thanks cleanhippie! meeshrox Nov 2012 #2

Do you think dead people can hear you? Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #3

Do you think passive-aggressiveness is a positive quality? cleanhippie Nov 2012 #4

Just curious as to why you are posting to dead people. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #5

So that those of us edhopper Nov 2012 #6

So why post it in Religion? Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #11

You'll have to take that up with edhopper Nov 2012 #14

He can take it up with himself. cleanhippie Nov 2012 #16

Honestly Dorian Gray Nov 2012 #42

Because that is his MO Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #51

What is so gosh darn offensive about "dispel(ling) religious mythology"? trotsky Nov 2012 #54

Nothing is wrong with "dispel(ling) religious mythology". Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #60

Do you think parodies of religious symbols should be banned? trotsky Nov 2012 #65

I'm not into banning things. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #67

Why is this place special or sacred? It's not a church. trotsky Nov 2012 #71

Lol! rug Nov 2012 #73

Unbelievable! I gotta get some air. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #79

I should add something here. trotsky Nov 2012 #84

You may have a good point there. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #86

That's so precious! trotsky Nov 2012 #88

And I got slapped down for objecting to his stirring up shit Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2012 #45

Slapped down how? Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #62

Two posts were judged to be Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2012 #70

Your posts were hidden by a jury of your peers because they were deemed as such. trotsky Nov 2012 #72

We have to be somewhat thick skinned around here. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #78

You should read up on some of FA's posts. trotsky Nov 2012 #83

I read one of his hidden threads. Total bullshit hide. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #85

Wow. trotsky Nov 2012 #87

Double standards seem to skepticscott Nov 2012 #96

Maybe you just shouldn't be so curious. cleanhippie Nov 2012 #15

How nice of you to shit on a memorial thread. trotsky Nov 2012 #7

What tone was that Trottles? Mockery? Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #12

Sagan called religious beliefs a delusion. trotsky Nov 2012 #18

No, it was an opinion. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #19

I see. It's an opinion for Sagan, trotsky Nov 2012 #21

OK, let's have that discussion. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #22

What's wrong with Sagan accepting spirituality? skepticscott Nov 2012 #24

Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #36

"Spirituality" can mean simply being in awe of natural processes, like sunsets or glaciers. trotsky Nov 2012 #31

Awe is an excellent word. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #32

"Our inability to perceive certain things does not mean they don't exist." trotsky Nov 2012 #33

Lots of people make that claim. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #34

Lots? Really? trotsky Nov 2012 #35

I used perceive in the sense of understanding, learning, grasping. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #37

I don't think I'm comfortable yet moving along. There is some confusion to clear up. trotsky Nov 2012 #38

Let's forget the word "perceive" and use the word "prove". Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #39

Just to clarify, do you now wish to have your text from post #32 read like this: trotsky Nov 2012 #41

Your first paragraph is accurate Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #48

I didn't say anything about DUers. trotsky Nov 2012 #50

Let me know when you want a conversation Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #52

I'd love a conversation. trotsky Nov 2012 #53

No, not to my knowledge on DU Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #57

OK, I'm glad you admit no one you know of holds that straw man position. trotsky Nov 2012 #63

Phew! Finally an answer. Thank you. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #64

It's not about me being confused, it's about you repeating ridiculous straw men positions. trotsky Nov 2012 #66

If encompasses everything that exists, then how can it be finite? Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #68

The questions you are asking indicate you have not done much reading on the subject. trotsky Nov 2012 #69

I read it 30 years ago and I disagree with Hawking on this. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #77

Pardon me for saying this, trotsky Nov 2012 #80

Nah, I don't think so. You can go back to playing with Clean Hippie now. Enjoy! Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #81

Okey doke, if that's all you wanted. trotsky Nov 2012 #82

I suspect you're also going to misuse the word "prove" skepticscott Nov 2012 #44

You are a fine one to be lecturing on the term "prove" when your own humblebum Nov 2012 #47

Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie..again skepticscott Nov 2012 #55

So then, are you claiming that there is more than one way of knowing? Interesting. humblebum Nov 2012 #75

I said "scientific proof" Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #49

Fine, then let's restate your assertion skepticscott Nov 2012 #58

Do you believe the universe is finite? Yes or No Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #61

Here' a hint skepticscott Nov 2012 #91

And I don't give a "rat's fuck" about your lack thereof. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #92

It's been shown where you've lied skepticscott Nov 2012 #93

It has not been shown where I lied. That in itself is a lie. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #94

Your claim in post 34 was a lie skepticscott Nov 2012 #95

So then when an atheist makes the claim that something has indeed been created from nothing, humblebum Nov 2012 #40

Neither skepticscott Nov 2012 #43

Yes, the claim has definitely been made more than once here that something has come from nothing. humblebum Nov 2012 #46

Sunsets are still there Laochtine Nov 2012 #59

Remind me to come back about the fourth week of December, then. meeshrox Nov 2012 #8

And which dead guy will you be saying "Happy Birthday" to then? Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #9

Don't think I need to spell that one out for ya N/T meeshrox Nov 2012 #17

What an offensive post. Odin2005 Nov 2012 #25

He singlehandedly- digonswine Nov 2012 #10

He turned me into a science nut. Odin2005 Nov 2012 #26

I have great regard for the work and ideas of Carl Sagan. humblebum Nov 2012 #13

When people persist in believing skepticscott Nov 2012 #23

Um? "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is..." - humblebum Nov 2012 #28

If you seriously think skepticscott Nov 2012 #29

Actually "really is" are not my words. Not much room for interpretation there. humblebum Nov 2012 #30

I never said that "really is" by itself are your words skepticscott Nov 2012 #56

Well silly me. When you stated " 'really is' (your words)" - I assumed that humblebum Nov 2012 #74

BTW. Where did I ever claim that you said "I cannot grasp it therefore it does not exist?" humblebum Nov 2012 #76

"the term 'delusion' implies a mental illness" 2ndAmForComputers Nov 2012 #89

Um.No I do not know that. humblebum Nov 2012 #90

In further tribute to the memory of this amazing man. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #20

I watched Cosmos AlGoreRhythms Nov 2012 #27