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humblebum

(5,881 posts)
32. You seem to want to ignore the full text.
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 12:19 PM
Aug 2012

In the context "respect" is used, it means 'regarding or 'with regard to....' And you totally ignore "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" part.

That why the courts apply the lemon test. There is no automatic rejection of religion from any public square, nor has there ever been in the US.

And Madison was just one voice and we are not an autocracy. He also said many other things about religion and government, i.e.

"It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded agst. by an entire abstinence of the Gov't from interfence in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect agst. trespasses on its legal rights by others." James Madison, in a letter to Rev Jasper Adams spring 1832, from James Madison on Religious Liberty, edited by Robert S. Alley, pp. 237-238

He also said:

"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign.

We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man's right is abridged by the institution of Civil Society and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance."

One way or another, pennylane100 Aug 2012 #1
You win the thread. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #2
I doubt it. They'll need to do more than send letters to even come close. rug Aug 2012 #5
well it might take a while, pennylane100 Aug 2012 #7
That's true. trotsky Aug 2012 #12
Will all the crosses at Arlington Cemetery be next? indie9197 Aug 2012 #3
Good question. It's public property. rug Aug 2012 #4
No, it's a stupid question and you know it. trotsky Aug 2012 #21
There you are, raising the tone again. rug Aug 2012 #22
I did, and gave you the chance to reciprocate. trotsky Aug 2012 #23
Here are all symbols currently allowed by the VA for headstones and markers OnlinePoker Aug 2012 #6
"someone's turning atheism into a religion?" it already is zazen Aug 2012 #52
Dude, stop Bogarting the J Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #53
sadly, I'm stone cold sober zazen Aug 2012 #63
Are you perhaps mentally picturing Normandy and not Arlington? Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #24
Proving that God doesn't exist is just as hard as proving that God does exist indie9197 Aug 2012 #8
Neither can be proved. rug Aug 2012 #9
This atheist disagrees longship Aug 2012 #10
Actually, the First Amendment says nothing of the sort and the idea humblebum Aug 2012 #27
What about "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" do you not get? longship Aug 2012 #28
"And SCOTUS has consistently upheld that principle." Hardly. humblebum Aug 2012 #29
Straw man longship Aug 2012 #30
You seem to want to ignore the full text. humblebum Aug 2012 #32
Congress shall make no law respecting... longship Aug 2012 #34
Actually it is not that simple, even though you say it is. And that is why we have a First humblebum Aug 2012 #35
Just the choice of a cross is defacto establishment. longship Aug 2012 #39
Nonetheless, that is the argument facing us today, and you still humblebum Aug 2012 #40
Jefferson only wrote the damned thing!!!! longship Aug 2012 #41
"if government has zero to say in the matter" - Then if the government is saying that the monument humblebum Aug 2012 #42
"Jefferson only wrote the damned thing!!!!"? Are you saying that he wrote the Constitution? humblebum Aug 2012 #43
1786 - VA Statute for Religious Freedom longship Aug 2012 #44
I am quite aware of Jefferson's communications with Madison, and Madison's role. humblebum Aug 2012 #46
Okay! You are fucking wrong yet again longship Aug 2012 #47
Oh boy !? Again, Jefferson did not write the Constitution. humblebum Aug 2012 #48
So it's just a coincidence Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #49
Here I thought you were going to tell something I didn't already know, but still humblebum Aug 2012 #59
Buh bye! longship Aug 2012 #50
Welcome to DU! You just passed inititiation! cleanhippie Aug 2012 #56
I raise a glass to you, cleanhippie. longship Aug 2012 #57
Post removed Post removed Aug 2012 #61
Oh. You're done again? nt humblebum Aug 2012 #60
And True Xians tried to re-write that Statute, let's not forget... onager Aug 2012 #58
Nice straw man there. No one is COLGATE4 Aug 2012 #13
I wish the Atheists would just step back and practice their non religion in private."? mr blur Aug 2012 #25
Why the fuck should atheists keep their beliefs in private and not religious people? n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2012 #31
Why should anyone keep their beliefs in private if they desire to make Leontius Aug 2012 #33
There's a difference between expressing yourself in public, and demanding government to sanction it. Humanist_Activist Aug 2012 #36
Agree somewhat but government sanction is not really needed, it is in fact proscribed by the First Leontius Aug 2012 #37
Its not just not needed, its unconstitutional. n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2012 #38
I believe that's just what I said. nt Leontius Aug 2012 #45
Yes, but you'll find many here who dislike being reminded of that fact, lol whathehell Aug 2012 #62
Mayor to discuss response to Woonsocket War memorial complaint struggle4progress Aug 2012 #11
Apparently Woonsocket is the exception to the majority COLGATE4 Aug 2012 #14
RI atheist group says cross should stay struggle4progress Aug 2012 #15
In light of that, I think the Wisconsin group might want to back off and let the local cbayer Aug 2012 #16
The local organization called Ocean State Atheists, that has two members? trotsky Aug 2012 #18
You got smacked down by an actual person involved last time you brought that up, s4p. trotsky Aug 2012 #17
could be, though I should regard as irrelevant the number of people involved, struggle4progress Aug 2012 #19
"though I should regard as irrelevant the number of people involved" trotsky Aug 2012 #20
City vows to keep defending the cross monument struggle4progress Aug 2012 #26
Yeah, uh, not a priority right now. bluestateguy Aug 2012 #51
What can the FFRF do about the sikh shooting? Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #54
Much bigger issue for sure. I'm not sure how it correlates with this particular topic, cbayer Aug 2012 #55
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