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Religion

In reply to the discussion: Have It Your Way [View all]

struggle4progress

(118,201 posts)
39. If there is no such a thing as free will, then what sense can I possibly make
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 02:03 PM
Aug 2012

of your demand that I ought to attempt to define "free will"?

The only interpretation I could give, to the assumption that there is no such thing as free will, is that you and I are both physical automata, driven by ambient conditions, and (in particular) that you made no choices when posting your post. That is, to make that assumption means: your post involved no conscious agency. And so the assumption means your post is essentially without content, since you would have posted it no matter what

Now, of course, we all do show some automatic behavior, and (in fact) the attempt to reduce people to automatic behavior is common as a manipulation tactic. This is why (for example), in your effort to provoke some automatic response from me, you attempt to insult me by sneering at my "google-fu" and try to suggest that I hold English teachers in contempt. I will admit that the latter suggestion could actually offend me gravely, but perhaps for the purposes of this conversation, I would do better to recall Chuang-Tzu's discourse on empty boats:

an ill-tempered man, crossing a river, does not become angry when an empty boat collides with his skiff; but if he sees someone in the boat, he shouts "Steer clear!" and if not heard he will shout again and again and curse -- all because someone is in that boat

Thus it is natural to forgive people of diminished capacity when they clumsily offend us

Have It Your Way [View all] rug Aug 2012 OP
If you believe free will exists, then prove it. trotsky Aug 2012 #1
Do you believe what Harris wrote? rug Aug 2012 #2
I see no evidence that free will, as commonly understood, exists. trotsky Aug 2012 #3
I see choices, large and small, made billions of times a day by billions of people. rug Aug 2012 #4
You see choices being made. So do I. No dispute there. trotsky Aug 2012 #5
If you see a choice, you see free will. rug Aug 2012 #6
Do other animals have free will, or only humans, rug? trotsky Aug 2012 #7
Observing my cat, I infer choice. Limited choice, but choice nonetheless. rug Aug 2012 #8
That doesn't answer my question. trotsky Aug 2012 #9
It does, given the indefiniteness of the question. rug Aug 2012 #10
I learned to fling ad homs from the best, rug. trotsky Aug 2012 #11
You haven't learned very well. rug Aug 2012 #12
Thanks again for the lovely behavior, rug. trotsky Aug 2012 #13
No. Jim__ Aug 2012 #14
Thoughtful, thorough and informative, as usual. rug Aug 2012 #18
Nope. rrneck Aug 2012 #15
Very freudian conceptually and I do agree that free will is often an illusion. cbayer Aug 2012 #16
I suppose Sammy's view is that he wrote the book because elementary physical laws struggle4progress Aug 2012 #17
Hedges was not talking about the area in which Harris has a Ph.D. Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #20
Over various years I took several neuro-chemistry and neuro-anatomy courses, struggle4progress Aug 2012 #22
No it is more that the choices we make are not conciouslly made, Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #32
It is clearly true that we do not control everything about ourselves: struggle4progress Aug 2012 #34
Well the problem is that currently attempts to measure what we consciously control Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #40
Free will debates: Simple experiments are not so simple struggle4progress Aug 2012 #41
Harris has a Ph.D. in neuroscience, for god's sake. Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #19
Dr. Bjorn Brembs (PhD) is a neurobiologist. Jim__ Aug 2012 #24
How does that go . . . appeal to authority? rug Aug 2012 #28
It's not a logical fallacy skepticscott Aug 2012 #31
... Given his other books, one would expect science to drive Harris’s conclusions, but here struggle4progress Aug 2012 #35
OK, let's walk through it Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #36
Wait, wait, wait! If we are going to do the negative Socratic dialectic thingie, I think that struggle4progress Aug 2012 #37
So when you can't use your Google-fu, you won't play Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #38
If there is no such a thing as free will, then what sense can I possibly make struggle4progress Aug 2012 #39
So you aren't gong to answer the question. Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #42
Anyone else believe this? AlbertCat Aug 2012 #21
We’re all schizophrenics now struggle4progress Aug 2012 #23
How free is the will? Sam Harris misses his mark struggle4progress Aug 2012 #25
LOL trotsky Aug 2012 #33
The cold, cramped, atheistic world of Sam Harris struggle4progress Aug 2012 #26
Will This Post Make Sam Harris Change His Mind About Free Will? struggle4progress Aug 2012 #27
Calvin meet Harris, er, Hobbes. rug Aug 2012 #29
Maybe it's only fate if it happens to somebody else? struggle4progress Aug 2012 #30
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