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Religion
In reply to the discussion: Is Atheism a Belief? [View all]beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)97. That's your opinion. I'll defer to scientists if you don't mind.
Conflating religious belief with science is a faulty logic. Evolution does not require belief, it is an easily proven theory. Belief in gods requires you to have faith in what cannot be proved.
Evolution is a Fact and a Theory
by Laurence Moran
When non-biologists talk about biological evolution they often confuse two different aspects of the definition. On the one hand there is the question of whether or not modern organisms have evolved from older ancestral organisms or whether modern species are continuing to change over time. On the other hand there are questions about the mechanism of the observed changes... how did evolution occur? Biologists consider the existence of biological evolution to be a fact. It can be demonstrated today and the historical evidence for its occurrence in the past is overwhelming. However, biologists readily admit that they are less certain of the exact mechanism of evolution; there are several theories of the mechanism of evolution. Stephen J. Gould has put this as well as anyone else:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
by Laurence Moran
When non-biologists talk about biological evolution they often confuse two different aspects of the definition. On the one hand there is the question of whether or not modern organisms have evolved from older ancestral organisms or whether modern species are continuing to change over time. On the other hand there are questions about the mechanism of the observed changes... how did evolution occur? Biologists consider the existence of biological evolution to be a fact. It can be demonstrated today and the historical evidence for its occurrence in the past is overwhelming. However, biologists readily admit that they are less certain of the exact mechanism of evolution; there are several theories of the mechanism of evolution. Stephen J. Gould has put this as well as anyone else:
In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."
Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.
Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.
Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.
- Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
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I've always found this topic fertile ground for pedantry and equivocation.
Act_of_Reparation
Mar 2017
#1
yes ........... atheists believe there is no god ............. that is a belief
Angry Dragon
Mar 2017
#6
Nice try but I want to know if it's a belief to NOT believe the earth is flat.
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#57
That doesn't answer my question. Why is lack of belief in your god special?
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#61
You have 'met' plenty in this forum who told you they have no belief in gods.
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#72
So because you haven't 'met' us in meat space we don't get to define our own atheism?
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#78
You linked to the op. Which is odd because I don't see where it includes a different definition.
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#82
No I'm actually being repeating your claim that atheism is a belief.
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#88
What does that statement even mean? What is your source for that claim?
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#93
Your opinion seems to be a belief. You're claiming every opinion is a belief.
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#99
They absolutely do matter. What is your belief that Santa doesn't exist called?
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#73
So you think belief in climate change is the same as belief in mythological creatures?
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#84
Gods are unprovable, climate change is settled science, just like evolution and gravity.
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#89
Is the evidence unequivocal that human caused warming is the cause of climate
guillaumeb
Mar 2017
#101
It's amazing that we have to keep fighting for the right to define ourselves.
beam me up scottie
Mar 2017
#43