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In reply to the discussion: Should the Catholic Church Acknowledge the Destruction of Classical Pagan Culture? [View all]beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)79. WORLD PAGAN LEADERS ADDRESS THE POPE
Last edited Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:57 PM - Edit history (1)
From the op:
We'll never know how our society might have developed, especially in terms of scientific and social advancement, had one androcentric religion not held exclusive control of so many and for so long. The ancient world was brutal, but it had its forward thinkers and rays of light.
But back to the beginning: Should the Catholic church acknowledge the harms it did so long ago to Greco-Roman pagan culture? Of course, I don't believe it will. Anti-pagan propaganda and a denial/whitewashing of history is still too prevalent for that to happen. Others have asked for this apology -- pagans and Christians alike -- to no meaningful avail.
Yet to me, there's something to be said for acknowledging past harms. From the internment of Japanese Canadians during WWII to the mistreatment of First Nations children forced to endure the residential school system, an acknowledgement is as much about spreading knowledge and preventing future injustice as it is about mending fences.
For as the ancient Roman statesman Seneca the Younger tells us, errare humanum est, sed in errare perseverare diabolicum. To err is human, but to persist in error is diabolical.
But back to the beginning: Should the Catholic church acknowledge the harms it did so long ago to Greco-Roman pagan culture? Of course, I don't believe it will. Anti-pagan propaganda and a denial/whitewashing of history is still too prevalent for that to happen. Others have asked for this apology -- pagans and Christians alike -- to no meaningful avail.
Yet to me, there's something to be said for acknowledging past harms. From the internment of Japanese Canadians during WWII to the mistreatment of First Nations children forced to endure the residential school system, an acknowledgement is as much about spreading knowledge and preventing future injustice as it is about mending fences.
For as the ancient Roman statesman Seneca the Younger tells us, errare humanum est, sed in errare perseverare diabolicum. To err is human, but to persist in error is diabolical.
Some background about that apology from ReligiousTolerance.org:
WORLD PAGAN LEADERS ADDRESS THE POPE
A group of Neopagans from around the world sent a message to Pope John Paul II on 2000-JAN-1, requesting that he include Pagans in his proposed apology.
Pope acknowledges sins of the Church:
In October 1998, in preparation for the Millennium, Pope John Paul II, the spiritual leader of about one billion Christian Roman Catholics, indicated that he and the Vatican are reviewing past Church sins and preparing a global apology statement:
On 1998-NOV-06, JTA mentioned in an article that Pope John Paul II has indicated that the Vatican may ask forgiveness for the Inquisition as part of a policy of self-searching as the Christian millennium approaches.
A group of Neopagans from around the world sent a message to Pope John Paul II on 2000-JAN-1, requesting that he include Pagans in his proposed apology.
Pope acknowledges sins of the Church:
In October 1998, in preparation for the Millennium, Pope John Paul II, the spiritual leader of about one billion Christian Roman Catholics, indicated that he and the Vatican are reviewing past Church sins and preparing a global apology statement:
On 1998-NOV-06, JTA mentioned in an article that Pope John Paul II has indicated that the Vatican may ask forgiveness for the Inquisition as part of a policy of self-searching as the Christian millennium approaches.
The text of the letter to Pope John Paul II
Pagans in Action: Council for Truth
1373 Dunbarton Road
Montgomery, AL 36117
Samhain (October 31), 1999
His Holiness, Pope John Paul II
Vatican City
Your Holiness:
The signatories to this letter have become aware that your advisors in the Vatican are working on a formal Apology to the Protestant Christians, Jews and Muslims for the persecution these groups suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church during the centuries of the Inquisition. It is our understanding that you will formally present this Apology at the opening of the Holy Year 2000 Grand Jubilee, following a penitential procession from the Basilica of Santa Sabina to Rome's Circus Maximus, where you will call for forgiveness for the historic failings of the Church. This is a brave and laudable effort, heralding the beginning of a great healing between the Catholic Church and the groups that have, historically, been persecuted in its name.
We note however, that early news releases concerning this event have not indicated that those accused of being Witches, and those indigenous (i.e. "Pagan" peoples who were forcibly converted by the Church will be included in your apology. This letter is a formal request for that omission to be rectified. As leaders of the contemporary Pagan/Wiccan community, we sincerely hope that Your Holiness will lead the way to mutual respect for all religions and spiritual paths by including all those who suffered from the tragedy of the Inquisition.
Modern Pagans, including many identified as Witches and Druids, comprise a global spiritual movement that draws its inspiration and traditions from indigenous pre-Christian religions. In the name of our spiritual ancestors who suffered persecution during the Inquisition, we respectfully request inclusion of Pagans and Witches in your Apology Address.
Sincerely Yours,
(1,639 Signatories)
1373 Dunbarton Road
Montgomery, AL 36117
Samhain (October 31), 1999
His Holiness, Pope John Paul II
Vatican City
Your Holiness:
The signatories to this letter have become aware that your advisors in the Vatican are working on a formal Apology to the Protestant Christians, Jews and Muslims for the persecution these groups suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church during the centuries of the Inquisition. It is our understanding that you will formally present this Apology at the opening of the Holy Year 2000 Grand Jubilee, following a penitential procession from the Basilica of Santa Sabina to Rome's Circus Maximus, where you will call for forgiveness for the historic failings of the Church. This is a brave and laudable effort, heralding the beginning of a great healing between the Catholic Church and the groups that have, historically, been persecuted in its name.
We note however, that early news releases concerning this event have not indicated that those accused of being Witches, and those indigenous (i.e. "Pagan" peoples who were forcibly converted by the Church will be included in your apology. This letter is a formal request for that omission to be rectified. As leaders of the contemporary Pagan/Wiccan community, we sincerely hope that Your Holiness will lead the way to mutual respect for all religions and spiritual paths by including all those who suffered from the tragedy of the Inquisition.
Modern Pagans, including many identified as Witches and Druids, comprise a global spiritual movement that draws its inspiration and traditions from indigenous pre-Christian religions. In the name of our spiritual ancestors who suffered persecution during the Inquisition, we respectfully request inclusion of Pagans and Witches in your Apology Address.
Sincerely Yours,
(1,639 Signatories)
Papal response:
We have been unable to locate any direct response by the Pope to this request. However, he did issue a statement of apology in 2000-MAR. According to Reuters, it "outlined a framework for seeking forgiveness for past errors without necessarily admitting responsibility for them." 1 It contained no specific references to past events. Since Catholic theology teaches that the church itself is spotless and free of error and sin, the church itself was absolved of any blame. He assigned responsibility for past evils on individual members of the Church.
We have been unable to locate any direct response by the Pope to this request. However, he did issue a statement of apology in 2000-MAR. According to Reuters, it "outlined a framework for seeking forgiveness for past errors without necessarily admitting responsibility for them." 1 It contained no specific references to past events. Since Catholic theology teaches that the church itself is spotless and free of error and sin, the church itself was absolved of any blame. He assigned responsibility for past evils on individual members of the Church.
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Should the Catholic Church Acknowledge the Destruction of Classical Pagan Culture? [View all]
trotsky
Apr 2015
OP
They can start by apologizing for destroying pagan civilizations period.
AtheistCrusader
Apr 2015
#3
There's something to be said in favor of intellectual integrity and careful historical work
struggle4progress
Apr 2015
#4
You're right. The Iberian monarchs funded armed fleets to bring back rare woods for rosaries.
rug
Apr 2015
#9
You actually know more about this issue than my s/o who is part Native American.
beam me up scottie
Apr 2015
#51
Your assumption that whites can only know about Native Americans from Wikipedia
skepticscott
Apr 2015
#62
You know, phil, yor parroting the phrase "a book of atrocity and genocide" hardly makes it so.
rug
Apr 2015
#34
... Praei/j ... means “mild”, “gentle”, “kind”, “forgiving”. It can also suggest passive resistance
struggle4progress
Apr 2015
#104
If you use the plural "we", kindly read the roster so everyone knows who you speak for.
rug
Apr 2015
#68
Burning people alive seems to have been a popular past-time in many cultures
struggle4progress
Apr 2015
#44
I've never heard the Iconoclasts mentioned in the destruction of Classical art before.
Leontius
Apr 2015
#39
Afraid not. Humans have yet to accept, let alone consistently practice, love your neighbor.
rug
Apr 2015
#41
Exactly. You don't have to look far to see nothing will change ntil we realize we are all neighbors.
rug
Apr 2015
#43
Wait, and your God has consistently practiced this? Where is this written?
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#110
Where is your evidence for this? I strongly doubt that Yahweh/Jesus were the only...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#114
So its, do as I say, not as I do? Why is this god worthy of worship again? n/t
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#118
Well, for one, he's very emotional, for example, jealously, which makes no sense...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#115
Again, that "Sacred Scripture" isn't so reliable, so having it intertwined with revelation...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#122
I feel as if we are simply talking past each other, and going around in circles...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#130
That's not the issue, if we treated the Bible like Beowulf, I wouldn't have an issue...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#133
Not a consistent message, no, the Bible is a collection of related stories, legends, myths...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#137
Most of the scholarship I've seen, and yes much of it I sourced(from memory) in my post...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#140
You are basically justifying confirmation bias, is anyone concerned about what actually...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2015
#142
I can't help but still be amazed how gullible and willfully ignorant these people are.
Leontius
Apr 2015
#32
And for showing us there's a one-sentence hit-and-run reply for any topic.
Act_of_Reparation
Apr 2015
#33
She couldn't be bothered with research on the subject. Vestals married to Rome, really.
Leontius
Apr 2015
#103
Fascinating how modern-day Christians react with hate and spittle to this history. n/t
trotsky
Apr 2015
#84
The destruction of pagan culture is whinny(sic) petty little bullshit?
beam me up scottie
Apr 2015
#95
I for one am glad Leontius is here to remind us what True Christian behavior is all about. n/t
trotsky
Apr 2015
#102
That account contains some curious garblings. It is, of course, quite likely
struggle4progress
Apr 2015
#108
The notion that there was one definite "Classical Pagan Culture" is somewhat odd
struggle4progress
Apr 2015
#131