Religion

tama

(9,137 posts)

32. Thanks

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 01:37 PM

Mar 2012

“Physics gives rise to observer-participant, observer-participant gives rise to information, information gives rise to physics.” – John Archibald Wheeler

I'm reading the Davies book in Finnish translation and translated the quote back to English, not exact match with the original but close enough.

Are you now saying that Wheeler's views are "pseudo-scientific claptrap of conspiracy theories and nuttiness.", or just the site you found the quote from?

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I prefer to be uncompromising than spineless... [View all] Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 OP

I Feel The Same Way TheMastersNemesis Mar 2012 #1

I feel the same way tama Mar 2012 #4

Yep. I was going to say the same thing. cbayer Mar 2012 #25

Actually, the first post is a criticism of behavior and beliefs, not bigotry... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #43

Humanist_Activist tama Mar 2012 #53

Look, I understand that your cognitive processes are hampered by a lack of exercise... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #106

I happen to think that the atheist POV is purposefully and extremely narrow-focused and humblebum Mar 2012 #118

Never said they were, and that narrow focus and narrow-mindedness is asking for evidence... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #132

You might want to be a bit more specific. Or is that a stock retort? nt humblebum Mar 2012 #134

Seemed specific enough to me. (nt) eqfan592 Mar 2012 #137

It was very specific. You must be using your own definition for that word if you think otherwise. cleanhippie Mar 2012 #138

Organized Skepticism is a fraud. AlbertCat Mar 2012 #110

No promises? ;) tama Mar 2012 #125

No promises? ;) AlbertCat Mar 2012 #127

Peace of mind tama Mar 2012 #128

You're obviously confused. eqfan592 Mar 2012 #139

So much for a way to squelch an honest conversation-- Thats my opinion Mar 2012 #49

Religion is all about "an honest conversation"?! mr blur Mar 2012 #117

Well, there's a silly, artificial dichotomy. rug Mar 2012 #2

Well, you would say that considering your apologism of the... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #24

Assuming that to be true, and only assuming, it does not make your dichotomy any less silly. rug Mar 2012 #26

There aren't many people on this board who want to compromise when it comes to... trotsky Mar 2012 #3

fundie militant statists tama Mar 2012 #5

Damn, do you have authority issues Silent3 Mar 2012 #9

I just tama Mar 2012 #11

No,you are taking a quote, that may or may not be accurate, out of context to reinforce... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #23

So Wheeler is "just new age bullshit" tama Mar 2012 #30

Yes, if he follows what you believe... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #31

Newton the alchemist tama Mar 2012 #47

Not only wrong skepticscott Mar 2012 #64

What is wrong? tama Mar 2012 #68

I feel exactly the same mr blur Mar 2012 #6

I would avoid the "fuck off" approach... Silent3 Mar 2012 #8

+100. I agree. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #105

It's not about treating religion with respect. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #104

Why, exactly, am I expected to tolerate delusion and wilful ignorance disguised as "faith"? AlbertCat Mar 2012 #111

I think the compromise many believers want... Silent3 Mar 2012 #7

Quantum tama Mar 2012 #10

That Wheeler quote... Silent3 Mar 2012 #12

It is a conclusion tama Mar 2012 #19

A speculative conclusion, an extrapolation... Silent3 Mar 2012 #50

What ever tama Mar 2012 #52

So when evidence fails you, and speculation is revealed to be just that... Silent3 Mar 2012 #54

A speculative conclusion, an extrapolation... AlbertCat Mar 2012 #114

I tried searching for it, and only found it, not in exact words, here: Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #22

Thanks tama Mar 2012 #32

Not necessarily, I'm calling people's ignorant use of him as an authority on this... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #34

Then tama Mar 2012 #41

What evidence? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #44

Wheeler's Classic Delayed Choice Experiment tama Mar 2012 #46

First off, its still hasn't had extensive testing yet,it doesn't "prove" anything... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #133

I agree tama Mar 2012 #135

It's been tested sufficiently, there was never much real doubt about it bananas Mar 2012 #144

Wellll... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #13

If you believe tama Mar 2012 #16

Actually, he's mostly wrong, its mostly predictible, mostly linear, and Einstenian... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #35

That's what I'm saying... except... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #55

teleology tama Mar 2012 #39

I can think of one... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #56

I agree tama Mar 2012 #63

Wellll... again.... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #81

(Yet another way to look at (rather... "hear") it.) Joseph8th Mar 2012 #82

If tama Mar 2012 #87

Couple thangs... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #108

Consciousness, sensory perceptions, etc. mental phenomena tama Mar 2012 #112

Is Wheeler equivocating on the word "physics"? Jim__ Mar 2012 #14

From the book tama Mar 2012 #17

Does Davies give the context of the quote? Jim__ Mar 2012 #18

The context tama Mar 2012 #21

I don't believe this explanation of the experiment involves circular causation. Jim__ Mar 2012 #42

"Decoherence" tama Mar 2012 #51

In QM decoherence is... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #57

I agree tama Mar 2012 #70

You're badly misrepresenting Paul Davies, and... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #83

Causality tama Mar 2012 #88

I agree with post #57 about decoherence. Jim__ Mar 2012 #59

From the link: tama Mar 2012 #65

Noooo.... nothing to do with Minkowski diagrams at all... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #84

I said Minkowski spacetime tama Mar 2012 #89

Also... we aren't talking about the same 'decoherence' at all. Not even sort of. nt Joseph8th Mar 2012 #85

Some thoughts on the signature under Minkowski spacetime. Jim__ Mar 2012 #129

It answers the question tama Mar 2012 #130

What is it that you don't understand? Jim__ Mar 2012 #131

Thanks tama Mar 2012 #140

There are a number of different concepts involved. Jim__ Mar 2012 #141

That'd be the one, Jim #59. nt Joseph8th Mar 2012 #86

Except,... that these particular mere matters of taste must also be taken as vitally important AlbertCat Mar 2012 #113

What are the chances? Joseph8th Mar 2012 #15

"... what the hell is a compromising atheist?" Jim__ Mar 2012 #20

Compromise on what? Separation of Church and State, LGBT rights, Women's rights and health care? Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #29

We compromise on all of the issues you just listed all the time. Jim__ Mar 2012 #37

Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant women's access to health care, BC and EC in particular, but also... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #38

Did progressives refuse to vote before Griswold v Connecticut and Roe v Wade? Jim__ Mar 2012 #40

There's a difference between accepting political reality and being accepting of the beliefs... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #45

It also appears that you would rather be uncompromising than gracious, cbayer Mar 2012 #27

I do not tolerate the intolerant, I do not kowtow to the foolish, if that makes me unreasonable... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #28

Then why should tama Mar 2012 #33

I don't expect tolerance of my beliefs in return, that's foolish. Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #36

Years ago some of our family group (7 bedroom house, some family, some friends in residence) pinto Mar 2012 #48

From a thread in GD Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #58

Good find and prescient words. cbayer Mar 2012 #60

From your citation: Politics and government demand compromise. Jim__ Mar 2012 #61

From my citation: Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #62

So is it your point of view that only uncompromising Christians are the problem? Leontius Mar 2012 #66

It is my point of view that Goldwater, Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #67

gotcha, my side good , their side bad. Leontius Mar 2012 #69

Get back to me when Dawkins, or any other outspoken atheist... 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #71

Technocratic tama Mar 2012 #72

LOL 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #75

Anyone who thinks that scientific scepticism is 'the propagand arm for materialist technocracy' is LeftishBrit Mar 2012 #136

Science I view as a mental tool to help discover the world, it therefore helps in development of... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #143

Another day another argument but if you want to give an opinion on what was actually being Leontius Mar 2012 #73

You said something. I chose to give an opinion on it. Don't like it? Tough. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #74

So either you don't understand what was being discussed or you don't Leontius Mar 2012 #76

You have no answer to what I said, so you complain that I talked about a post of yours 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #77

No you don't seem to understand what my post was about or have nothing to add to Leontius Mar 2012 #78

You are the one who responded with an asinine comment. cleanhippie Mar 2012 #101

So the topic is religion in politics. Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #94

Gee I hate false equivalences. Leontius Mar 2012 #103

Are you on the side of Santorum and his ilk? cleanhippie Mar 2012 #100

Yes, but the problem is not that they are Christians, but that they won't compromise. Jim__ Mar 2012 #79

OK, let's play this game. trotsky Mar 2012 #90

Asked and answered. See posts #37 and 40. Jim__ Mar 2012 #91

Nope, that's a totally different issue. trotsky Mar 2012 #92

Post #40 has nothing to do with health care. Jim__ Mar 2012 #93

Yet it doesn't answer my question, either. trotsky Mar 2012 #95

Actually it does answer your question. Jim__ Mar 2012 #97

OK, I'll put you down for "willing to compromise on women's rights." trotsky Mar 2012 #98

Put yourself down as willing to compromise on women's rights - because you're nothing but talk. Jim__ Mar 2012 #99

LOL trotsky Mar 2012 #102

Actually, I think it takes a lot more spine to be reasonable than to be uncompromising. cbayer Mar 2012 #80

Again, this is said from a position of privilege Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #96

There Is Only One God tama Mar 2012 #107

There Is Only One God... and his name is Ponzi AlbertCat Mar 2012 #115

In my country tama Mar 2012 #123

I don't even know what you are getting at. Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #120

Perhaps because tama Mar 2012 #121

Well, since we're getting sassy Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #122

Money is evil tama Mar 2012 #124

You can try to harp on it all you want. trotsky Mar 2012 #119

Isn't the idea tama Mar 2012 #126

Before the crucifixion, did Jesus start a Ponzi scheme? Boojatta Mar 2012 #109

Before the crucifixion, did Jesus start a Ponzi scheme? AlbertCat Mar 2012 #116

k/r deacon_sephiroth Mar 2012 #142