Gun Control & RKBA

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)

21. Yes, actually, there is blood running in the street.

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 12:21 PM

Nov 2012

Trayvon Martin's blood and the poor bugger who Nussbaum shot and got a free pass. How many do we need to show "blood in the street" from so-called legitimate SYG killings?

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Don't Ignore the Evidence: Stand Your Ground Is Bad for Florida [View all] SecularMotion Nov 2012 OP

There shouldn't be a law, for something that SHOULD virtually have Minuscule orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #1

SYG is a self-defense law which places the burden Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #3

The problem with SYG in terms of the law is that it makes it cruelly easy to JDPriestly Nov 2012 #6

It should never be the duty of a defendant to prove innocence. PavePusher Nov 2012 #11

Fuck that,, when you assume the role of the " State " orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #13

Huh? I've assumed nothing. PavePusher Nov 2012 #19

Not you, the person who has assumed role of Judge, Jury and Executioner. orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #48

Or the person... NewMoonTherian Nov 2012 #56

I don't mean to mix SYG, protecting your-self, with the Zimmerman's with a orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #74

In a sense you're right glacierbay Nov 2012 #61

Oh, you mean criminals who attack or threaten to attack people? n/t PavePusher Nov 2012 #67

I mean anyone who takes the law in to their own hands, Criminals included. orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #73

Self-defense is not "taking the law into their own hands"..... PavePusher Nov 2012 #78

It never was about "proving" innocence Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #14

prove innocence of a crime gejohnston Nov 2012 #58

SYG did not change the legal standard about necessity ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #86

And apparently, to some at least, the illusion of a free pass. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #92

I agree that some people have illusions about the law ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #98

In the Nussbaumer case it definitely looked like legalized murder. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #102

As usual you attempt to minimize what the criminal was doing. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #123

"Naturally you side with a drug addled, armed home invading, would be rapist. " Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #125

Arrows make rather good short spears. You can stab with them. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #126

Not murder necessarily. But not justifiable homicide either. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #127

I don't side with the criminal. I concentrate on options to killing. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #128

Fresh out of the shower, I rather doubt that she had her equipment belt. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #129

I think you need to do some reality testing here. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #130

Do you have reading problems? GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #131

As you said, he was drug addled. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #133

you don't know she didn't claim it gejohnston Nov 2012 #134

There's lot we don't know. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #144

news reports rarely if ever give such details, gejohnston Nov 2012 #145

In this case, I agree she was held to a lower standard. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #146

I doubt there would be more in the media gejohnston Nov 2012 #147

In the law, self-defense is one of a number of defenses to murder. JDPriestly Nov 2012 #20

no not quite gejohnston Nov 2012 #30

You are misunderstanding key details ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #87

SYG seems to change the order in which the evidence regarding JDPriestly Nov 2012 #89

The early hearing is unique to FL ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #90

That is what I am talking about. JDPriestly Nov 2012 #95

a judge, it is a pre trial motion gejohnston Nov 2012 #96

The grand jury is a good idea in my opinion. JDPriestly Nov 2012 #118

one correction gejohnston Nov 2012 #119

The burden of proof is traditionally on the state to first prove that JDPriestly Nov 2012 #120

you don't understand how it works gejohnston Nov 2012 #121

If the defendant admits having killed the victim, JDPriestly Nov 2012 #138

As another posted, its a pretrial motion and hearing ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #99

Watch How the ProGun Group Twists This Around fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #124

I see you point, though I can't see how much would Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #46

That's not how I see it at all. Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #77

I know what you are talking about when it comes to legal fees JDPriestly Nov 2012 #81

You are completely wrong. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #122

Not big enough to withstand bullets, or the attention of a true orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #10

"Child" is used to gain some emotional high ground... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #47

Your right as far as the misuse of the word " Child " but he was neither bent on mayhem, orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #51

We'll have to see. Zimmerman was an ass to strut around Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #75

"Researchers were unable to draw strong conclusions..." Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #2

Here's the full quote SecularMotion Nov 2012 #4

Yes. "Given the data." Time's a bitch.nt Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #9

" SYG is a measure for self - defense, NOT SOCIAL POLICY " What's the diff ???????? orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #12

Social policy is a set of laws and programs designed Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #40

Thanks for the clear description . orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #45

Thanks. Whether or not you agree, too often social policy is Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #49

Agreed, General well being should be our goal . orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #50

To a point. Straw Man Nov 2012 #97

As far as being Prosecuted or Shot ? orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #100

Both. Straw Man Nov 2012 #132

Bad for the state, good for the citizens... ileus Nov 2012 #5

Just because Zimmerman alledgely broke this law does not mean it is a bad law. -- If that is the Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #7

He only broke the law when the DA started worrying about the public outcry. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #16

Out of Control? Is there blood running in the streets down there? do tell -- Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #17

Yes, actually, there is blood running in the street. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #21

oh please. you are sounding hysterical and may I just say it is NOT the Law that failed but, Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #24

A difference of opinion is not hysteria. Believe me, hysterical is the last thing I am. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #25

some sunuvabitch comes into My House and gets next to My Kid Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #27

There was no jury. No charge Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #33

you named -two- cases. both with mitigating circumstances. I don't know. I need more evidence Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #42

SYG isn't the kind of law one can break. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #55

your own words trip you up --- Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #60

Exactly, that's what trials are for. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #83

no. If I am understanding this correctly, the person can claim SYG but, if the investigation Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #91

Correct, then they can try SYG again, only this time before a jury. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #93

ok then. I rest my case. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #94

Are you sure Jenoch Nov 2012 #103

How can I be sure? I'm not his lawyer. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #104

when did he claim SYG? gejohnston Nov 2012 #31

His attorney. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #34

The pre-trial SYG motion is basically a freebie. Burden of proof is only preponderance of evidence. slackmaster Nov 2012 #43

Invoking Trayvon Martin proves that the author doesn't have a clue about the subject slackmaster Nov 2012 #8

Nonsense. Zimmerman was not arrested until the community cried foul. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #15

I'm going to state my prediction here once again for the record slackmaster Nov 2012 #18

Right. That's why they had a hearing seeking a SYG free pass. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #22

It didn't cost them anything, nor did it prevent them from using other defenses slackmaster Nov 2012 #28

Apparently Zim's attorney disagrees with you. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #36

Let's see a cite to support that slackmaster Nov 2012 #41

I posted several but here we go. Down at the end of link page. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #52

As I have posted repeatedly, asking for a hearing is a gimme, a freebie slackmaster Nov 2012 #62

depends on the jury instructions gejohnston Nov 2012 #44

He is charged with 2nd degree murder. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #53

In the US, gejohnston Nov 2012 #54

Same everywhere in criminal cases. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #57

no they didn't gejohnston Nov 2012 #35

One was a preliminary hearing to convince the judge. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #37

there always is a preliminalry hearing gejohnston Nov 2012 #39

SYG should not work considering the evidence in the Zimmerman case. JDPriestly Nov 2012 #23

that is not what the evidence shows gejohnston Nov 2012 #32

while walking back to his car -- from where? JDPriestly Nov 2012 #63

So, if the evidence shows, glacierbay Nov 2012 #64

What sort of evidence would show that Zimmerman was JDPriestly Nov 2012 #71

the point is gejohnston Nov 2012 #65

If I were Zimmerman, I would seek a plea on a manslaughter JDPriestly Nov 2012 #69

that is not how it works in Florida gejohnston Nov 2012 #80

So, SYG is a horrible concept...except that Martin should have had the option? dumbledork Nov 2012 #66

Martin should have had the option as should anyone who is JDPriestly Nov 2012 #68

I remember reading that O'Mara stated that Zimmerman would JDPriestly Nov 2012 #70

you don't actually know anything about Florida do you? gejohnston Nov 2012 #82

You don't appear to understand SYG either. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #26

Claiming that the defendant's actions were justifiable or excusable is a form of legal defense slackmaster Nov 2012 #29

Of course. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #38

According to lexisnexis, his use of deadly force can be easily justified under common law tortoise1956 Nov 2012 #59

The location of the shooting will be important. JDPriestly Nov 2012 #72

that specific prosecutor has a reputation of over charging gejohnston Nov 2012 #79

I love that i have the option to stand my ground and defend myself. nt darkangel218 Nov 2012 #76

I agree... LP2K12 Nov 2012 #84

There shouldnt be any disagreement. darkangel218 Nov 2012 #85

The academic research is mixed...the task force found that there was no compelling need to change ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #88

ZIMMERSHIT SHOT DEAD COWARD STYLE AN UNARMED KID who might have grown up to cure cancer graham4anything Nov 2012 #101

Since you have found him guilty of the crime without trial. oneshooter Nov 2012 #105

There are cops that we pay stinking good taxpayer money to, who have that job graham4anything Nov 2012 #106

in the US, about 800 murders are committed with bare hands gejohnston Nov 2012 #107

Another no answer line of crap from you. Easy answer yes, or no. oneshooter Nov 2012 #108

Are you human? Or are you dancer? I can't tell, but you are a control freak, aren't you?Demanding graham4anything Nov 2012 #109

Still no answer. yes or no oneshooter Nov 2012 #110

yes or no. Why do you five NRA groupies all write the exact same phrases? graham4anything Nov 2012 #111

Are you afraid of answering a simple question. oneshooter Nov 2012 #112

Without a gun, Mr. Martin would be alive. It really is a simple answer. No gun, no dead Mr. Martin graham4anything Nov 2012 #113

Still no answer, I guess you really are afraid to answer. Like many other anti's that refuse. oneshooter Nov 2012 #114

Just like a gun bully to attempt to bully an answer. I don't even remember which question I didn't graham4anything Nov 2012 #115

To refresh your memory, it was post #105. You seem scared to answer a simple yes, no question. oneshooter Nov 2012 #117

RUN AWAY!!! RUN AWAY!!!!! He is asking simple questions!!!! RUN AWAY!!!! oneshooter Nov 2012 #135

Yes graham4anything Nov 2012 #136

Do you denounce Spike Lee and Roseanne Barr gejohnston Nov 2012 #137

NO. Spike didn't kill anyone. I don't follow Roseanne so don't know what she is about. graham4anything Nov 2012 #140

so you are OK with the two of them gejohnston Nov 2012 #141

So you are willing to kill a man you have never known? To pull the lever and drop a person, oneshooter Nov 2012 #139

If that was my job. Just like Walmart pharmacists must but don't by law dispense birthcontrol graham4anything Nov 2012 #142

But it is NOT your job. Yet you are still willing to do it. oneshooter Nov 2012 #143

He's guilty. krispos42 Nov 2012 #116