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Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
89. And an appropriate response.
Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:46 PM
Nov 2012

Firstly, sorry it took so long; work has been a nightmare, but I've been getting -plenty- of overtime. Not much sleep, but more money isn't a bad thing. I rarely leave a post unattended for that long, and for that, I apologize.


Now, on to content.

Paragraph 1.)

You keep bringing up protection in regards to gun control. As I've stated before, I do not purchase firearms for protection, nor do I know anyone in my immediate group of friends who does; we simply enjoy firearms, both for personal enjoyment as well as for market value and collector's worth. In regards to concern about a hypothetical government rounding people up, my actual concern for that is about on par with that of the Zombiepocalypse; will probably never happen, but I would rather be prepared than not. More importantly, what we're talking about isn't necessarily a concern that the threat is imminent or even potentially impending. What I am genuinely concerned with is the -ability- of a person to maintain a resistance of any kind to a potentially dire threat of any variety. Do I believe that I will need a firearm to protect myself? Honestly, probably not. However, both the option and the ability to arm myself, -if- the need arises, is what I fight to defend in regards to gun control. To be perfectly honest, when it comes down to people dying of firearms, I am ambivalent. People die to thousands of causes. Every day, 100,000+ people die. If I were to think that the hundred or so people dying to firearms were any more important than the other hundred thousand, I would not be able to justify it to myself. Who am I to judge who should or shouldn't die of any given cause, simply by virtue of -how- they died without relation to appropriate cause and effect on a case by case basis, especially when pertaining to rights (or even perceived rights) of an entire demographic? To think otherwise is morally reprehensible and unjustifiable to any means outside those thoughts of a true sociopath.


Paragraphs 2 and 3.)

My personal belief in the right to own a firearm, and it is a right regardless of your quotation marks, is simply based on the constitution, as well as my belief in personal responsibility, freedom, and choice. I am a firm supporter of the 2nd Amendment being lightly regulated because, as with all things, bad people will do bad things. They will poison, they will stab, they will bludgeon their spouse to death with a golf trophy; the -weapon- does not matter. The solution is not in the revocation of every weapon they could potentially use; indeed, said removal has proven fruitless on numerous occasions (See Scotland, Washington DC, Russia, et cetera). Instead, the solution (and where I devote most of my non-firearm-related political influence) is in improving the social quality and makeup that lead to crime, regardless of the weapons driving it. There will always be impulse-killings so long as humans have emotion, that much is certain. However, in areas where social and cultural development are increasing or already sustain natural highs (Norway, for instance), the firearm is seen less as a solution to a problem and is appreciated more for what it is: A tool capable of ending a human being's life. While we can never eliminate crime, we can attempt to mitigate it's spread and propagation through social engineering and improving the quality of life as well as the -appreciation- of life, both one's own and that of others.

I believe your attempt to liken firearms to child pornography is flawed in two simple, massive ways: CP is not protected by the constitution, and CP, unlike firearms, is entirely and completely negative in every regard: The victimization of an unprotected human being, potential marketting of said being, emotional trauma if the child is abused, physical and psychological destruction and late-term psychological ramifications that may or may not lead to destructive behavior. It is directly, and -always-, harmful. A more correct analogue to firearms would be that every bullet kills; every shot fired hits; no firearms are used for target practice or hunting. To be blunt, I'm sorry, but your analogy is hideously and fatally flawed in all but the most superficial ways.


Paragraph 4.)

I am doing nothing of the sort. Freedom is the ability to do something, nothing more or less. I want the freedom to purchase a firearm; there is no intent nor desire to "conveniently kill and wound." I am perfectly capable of doing that more efficiently with my bare hands (Shodan of Okinawan Goju Ryu ).


Paragraph 5.)

Because, once in a while, the Freepwits may get something right. They are correct in concept, and in fact they're quite liberal; they just don't understand -why- they're right. As I like to say, they're right, but for all the wrong reasons; they want their guns because damnit, they want their guns and "Becauz fuk u dats why". I want the -ability- to have guns.

Let me use your own analogy against you. I want a child; I have the ability, with my fiancee, to make a child. What I do with that child, however... Like make child porn... is completely independent of the child itself. In regards to guns, the -action- of killing someone is reprehensible. Don't just state "Guns are evil", say "Murdering another human being is evil" and take steps to stop that action rather than prohibiting access to an item to the rest of the population.

What's sad is... LP2K12 Nov 2012 #1
Just so you and your father know, President Obama also said this: Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #2
notice: He said Criminals NOT PreCriminals are whatever is the term some Anti-2Aers have been using. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #5
And don't forget those pesky hidden criminals. glacierbay Nov 2012 #14
Obama understands the Constitution and well knows that Pro-2Aers voted for him. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #3
Barak Obama, Oct 16, 2012. Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #4
let him see. he will be looking for a long time. betcha. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #8
That's irrelevant to this point. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #9
ah, throw the poor guy a bone. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #12
Yep glacierbay Nov 2012 #15
He had to toss a bone to a vocal gun controllers hack89 Nov 2012 #45
The impact I could see is on import firearms/ammo. Remmah2 Nov 2012 #6
He could go on BillO's show AlGoreRhythms Nov 2012 #7
Obama didn't say that Renew Deal Nov 2012 #10
True: It was an administration official. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #13
This ought to really piss of the Brady org. glacierbay Nov 2012 #11
A constitutional right on what basis? To go to war with your government? Loudly Nov 2012 #16
Awwwww glacierbay Nov 2012 #17
Well said, gb friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #74
Based on, ya know, the constitution. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #18
What hooey. Loudly Nov 2012 #21
You can quit beating that horse Shares. glacierbay Nov 2012 #22
Yup, pretty much. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #23
What? Why do you hate the First Amendment? And the Twenty-Fourth? n/t PavePusher Nov 2012 #69
+1000000 glacierbay Nov 2012 #24
Hey there Shares... ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #19
I shall refer to our Declaration of Rights Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #33
Very good. This can't be repeated often enough. Loudly Nov 2012 #34
Uh... You may want to read that again, friend. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #35
No fair citing facts to Shares United, now known as Loudly ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #37
Yes that's it exactly. You want the option of staging armed rebellion against the United States. Loudly Nov 2012 #38
You want to play? Let's play. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #41
Paragraph by paragraph rebuttal. Loudly Nov 2012 #44
"Why the theoretical concern about your government rounding people up?" PavePusher Nov 2012 #70
And an appropriate response. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #89
Much more diplomatic than my response.... PavePusher Nov 2012 #93
Pretty silly talk from you Shares ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #43
Only basis? No. Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #36
Wrong. It is a right. And here is a liberal who agreed with that: Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #50
Some hurt feelings in his thread former-republican Nov 2012 #20
Oh, my GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD! VPStoltz Nov 2012 #25
And if I find that guns make me happy? Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #26
Funny how the controllers become more and more glacierbay Nov 2012 #28
Your right to happiness is not unconditional. Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #49
"2a absolutism" - Dishonesty in semantic redefinition isn't helping your cause. beevul Nov 2012 #57
I don't think I've ever gotten a serious answer Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #58
I've already provided the evidence down thread. You can exhale. Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #60
You provided nothing, and called it evidence. beevul Nov 2012 #67
The gun control false consensus is falling apart, and they're not taking it well at all... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #75
Indeed, happiness is not guaranteed 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #134
What part of what he posted do you not understand? glacierbay Nov 2012 #27
What kind of rights do you think the Bill of Rights refers to? nt hack89 Nov 2012 #51
"in the bible"? PavePusher Nov 2012 #71
Constitutional right? Yes... bowens43 Nov 2012 #29
Sorry dude glacierbay Nov 2012 #31
Uh, well, you're wrong. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #32
Explain how your semantic construct works, using basic rules of grammar. I bet you can't. n/t PavePusher Nov 2012 #72
Could you list the other collective rights guaranteed in the constitution? 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #135
It could be gun owner suppression like voter suppression. Thinkingabout Nov 2012 #30
... ellisonz Nov 2012 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #40
your examples are all examples of weapons that cannot be 'borne'. Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #47
"I've never seen that." Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #48
Logically, if you could post a link to where any "responsible person has ever seriously argued that AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #52
Here you go. Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #53
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #55
"it's not clear whether he was being serious or not. " Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #59
That's because your 'evidence' is bullshit. AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #65
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #66
As said above, Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #42
Wrong! RKBA is one of our unalienable/inalienable rights and as SCOTUS said jody Nov 2012 #54
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #56
That is What the Party Platform Says Along with an AWB fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #61
Since you want a AWB, what "assault weapons" would you ban? And why? oneshooter Nov 2012 #62
The Ones the Really Smart People Want to Ban fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #63
those are already banned or simply not sold gejohnston Nov 2012 #64
So you have no idea what you are supporting? oneshooter Nov 2012 #68
Nah fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #73
Well then, we'll just have to keep doing what we've been doing all along- friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #76
Right fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #80
Erm... About that. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #90
Not Even Close fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #101
you are missing a couple of things gejohnston Nov 2012 #104
I quoted the Entire Text in Entirety and Support 100% as is. fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #107
who cares? gejohnston Nov 2012 #121
Other than the Use Of Guns Results in Murder and Crime fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #122
so why does USVI, gejohnston Nov 2012 #123
I Make No Claim to Know fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #125
only that it has nothing to do with laxer gun laws gejohnston Nov 2012 #127
You seem to forget what the *leader* of the Democratic Party said friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #100
See Post 101 fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #102
You didn't 'say' anything, you simply parroted the platform. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #110
And Once Again fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #113
So you willingly admit that you support laws that you know nothing about. oneshooter Nov 2012 #120
Right fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #124
why do I bother? "and keep the guns in the house." Period. End of discussion. graham4anything Nov 2012 #77
I don't know why you bother, either. Union Scribe Nov 2012 #78
Bloomberg backed Obama. He is a LIBERAL democrat from Mass in case you didn't know graham4anything Nov 2012 #79
You give us permission to have a gun glacierbay Nov 2012 #82
"Your (supposed) right to a gun stops when you take it outside." PavePusher Nov 2012 #94
Bloomberg is a right wing knob. Union Scribe Nov 2012 #169
I see our little RW authoritarian is back glacierbay Nov 2012 #81
someday our prince will come...and MMMM is that Prince. graham4anything Nov 2012 #83
Are you talking about Blooming Idiot? glacierbay Nov 2012 #84
guess you aren't an Obama fan. I would think you would appreciate he gave him his endorsement graham4anything Nov 2012 #85
You're a funny person glacierbay Nov 2012 #86
I expect no less from the multi-million dollar suits of the #1 lobby superPac in the world-the NRA graham4anything Nov 2012 #87
Another RW position glacierbay Nov 2012 #88
I bide my time,but Mayor Mike is the Equalizer...btw, guns are rightwing. graham4anything Nov 2012 #133
"btw, guns are rightwing."? Now you claim to follow a sect of animism? PavePusher Nov 2012 #137
you left out "in the street". (of course, because you guys have no answer for it) graham4anything Nov 2012 #139
"get rid of ALL guns from the street, and you get rid of gun violence 100%." PavePusher Nov 2012 #144
I wouldn't expect you to understand as you don't want change.You want 1850s wild west. graham4anything Nov 2012 #146
Mikey will be history soon enough...and it will be good riddance to repuke trash ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #140
He is a young man with billions to give away. His mother lived to be 102 graham4anything Nov 2012 #142
much of it to keep Brown in the Senate. gejohnston Nov 2012 #143
What, he won't live to be a zillion? Or is he worth a zillion? ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #148
the NRA is the 1%. 98.7% of America is NOT a member of the NRA. graham4anything Nov 2012 #149
How many are the Brady bunch, now? Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #150
I do not care about the Brady bill-it is fundamentally flawed and can never work graham4anything Nov 2012 #151
Brady Campaign, not the bill. Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #152
nobody ever heard of it. As the Pet Shop Boys sang (c)Sondheim "Somewhere" graham4anything Nov 2012 #154
Your hero worship of a classic 1%er is both amazing and telling ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #162
Isn't it? glacierbay Nov 2012 #164
BTW glacierbay Nov 2012 #163
So far, s/he's never answered any question. PavePusher Nov 2012 #165
Yep glacierbay Nov 2012 #167
after a week or so with no lights not once did I feel I needed a gun...as Alan Jackson said in graham4anything Nov 2012 #168
How very fucking "Dick Cheney" of you DonP Nov 2012 #91
He's already on record glacierbay Nov 2012 #92
Which begs the question: PavePusher Nov 2012 #97
Beats the hell out of me. glacierbay Nov 2012 #99
He- Like You - Is Entitled to His Opinion fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #129
Sure, he's entitled to his own opinion glacierbay Nov 2012 #161
IRS audits of your political enemies? How very Nixonian. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #111
"THERE IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO OWNING BULLETS" PavePusher Nov 2012 #95
no, they are not. Arms are not legs. graham4anything Nov 2012 #132
The only conclusion I can draw from your "rebutal"... is that freebasing is bad for you. Good luck. PavePusher Nov 2012 #136
"...get rid of ALL guns outside the home....." slackmaster Nov 2012 #96
... and Bloomies bodyguards of course DonP Nov 2012 #98
It's all Bizarro, all the time, with this one. PavePusher Nov 2012 #138
And That Is Bad? fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #108
Were you *entirely* sure about the government during the Nixon, Reagan, and Bush II years? friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #112
History fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #114
You're the only one here talking about "seeking to overthrow our Constitutional government" slackmaster Nov 2012 #171
No fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #172
I can't tell whether you are being deliberately obtuse here, so I'll just explain my position again slackmaster Nov 2012 #174
You Clarified Your Position fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #176
More fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #126
My issue is the the security of the state, which includes the capacity for effective self-defense slackmaster Nov 2012 #170
Ok fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #173
The state isn't secure unless every community, neighborhood, family, and individual are also secure slackmaster Nov 2012 #175
Ok fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #177
Until a Supreme Court with a different make up upaloopa Nov 2012 #103
so you are saying all judges are politicians in robes gejohnston Nov 2012 #105
Is that what he said? fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #109
Not gonna happen glacierbay Nov 2012 #106
Ever hear of Citizens United? It over turned upaloopa Nov 2012 #115
Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce gejohnston Nov 2012 #118
Hhhm fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #117
there is a difference gejohnston Nov 2012 #119
Based on a Compelling State Interest fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #128
but compelling state interest has to be demostrated gejohnston Nov 2012 #130
Huh? fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #131
defending yourself is legal gejohnston Nov 2012 #141
No One Is 'Defending' Themselves in a Duel fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #145
there are no duels in the street, that was the point gejohnston Nov 2012 #147
Thankfully, the president made no reference to guns. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #116
President Obama: Making fatuous statements is a Constitutional Right. MrModerate Nov 2012 #153
I am a gun owning liberal democrat beachbumbob Nov 2012 #155
And the rate of homicides committed with "assault weapons" Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #156
its the premise that assault weapoons are being sold. beachbumbob Nov 2012 #157
Automobiles, fax machines, televisions, Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #158
Why did you not post your comment in a manner known to those writers? PavePusher Nov 2012 #160
They are quite popular in lawful game hunting. PavePusher Nov 2012 #159
Precise definitions matter on this topic ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #166
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