Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ToolMaker

(27 posts)
61. Goose, meet gander...
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 03:10 PM
Apr 2012
I'm glad you recognize that the gun-religionists' emotional arguments don't win anybody to their side


Just as I doubt that it attracts significant numbers to the other side of the debate.

Yeah, I guess an item whose main use is dealing death is something to fight.


I may be convinced to agree if it were true that guns are used mainly for "dealing death." However, even when including hunting in "dealing death", the actual numbers tell a very different story. The vast majority of guns and gun owners kill nothing more significant than paper targets.

I do agree that violence in America is an issue that needs to be addressed. I also agree that guns are misused, either through criminal intent or plain ignorance and stupidity, too often. Once is too often. However, I don't believe that we will reach a zero rate of gun related injury or death within the next 1,000 years, regardless of what laws are passed. It seems to me that your energy, and many others',on both sides of the debate would be better used looking for ways to agree on real solutions rather than insulting one another.

As distasteful as groups such as the NRA may be to many people, they have championed many legislative efforts and ideas focusing on reducing criminal actions with firearms, increasing the efffectiveness of background checks, education and safety programs and much more. Gun owners and 2nd amendment proponents are active within their communities and tend to be quite well organized. Aside from the ranting of people like Nugent and LaPierre, gun owners are very much like the average American. Probably because they are the average American. I have yet to hear any of them demand guns for everyone, the right to kill on a whim or any other of the rhetoric put forth by opposing views. What I have seen and heard is a willingness to teach safety classes, promote safe and legal use of firearms, promote wildlife management and and host of other positive activities.

It seems that the proponents of increased restrictions, almost universally, take an all or nothing stance. They reject any proposal that doesn't go far enough toward their ideal goal, rather than accept a partial victory in the fight against illegal/irresponsible gun use. I think most would agree that I you adopt an all or nothing stance, you are probably more likely to get nothing, rather than all.
You'd think we'd know by now guns kill people. ileus Apr 2012 #1
So do you believe that the New Black Panthers should have been prosecuted? oneshooter Apr 2012 #2
You don't think there is a distinction between speech and action? fightthegoodfightnow Apr 2012 #4
Palins poster, while in bad taste, did not advocate oneshooter Apr 2012 #10
I agree with your position fightthegoodfightnow Apr 2012 #25
Were you aware that the New Black Panthers have been known to demonstrate S_B_Jackson Apr 2012 #20
You Did See My Questions First fightthegoodfightnow Apr 2012 #23
If members of so-called NBPanthers had killed an unarmed person, they would have been prosecuted. Hoyt Apr 2012 #7
Hyperbole much? HALO141 Apr 2012 #28
Just get tired of pro-gun crowd posting stuff from the Tbaggers here. Hoyt Apr 2012 #29
If someone took them up on the ten grand gejohnston Apr 2012 #30
Do you actually believe that Limbaugh crud? Hoyt Apr 2012 #31
I don't listen to Limbaugh gejohnston Apr 2012 #34
It's like the 2nd is more important than the 1st . orpupilofnature57 Apr 2012 #3
Even the 3rd is important sarisataka Apr 2012 #5
this poster puts it pretty well gejohnston Apr 2012 #6
Inequality, poverty and segregation can't compare to Loudly Apr 2012 #8
Hi, Shares. Straw Man Apr 2012 #11
That's some funny shit right there. AH1Apache Apr 2012 #16
That was a good one!! No text but I had to put something in the tex box!! CokeMachine Apr 2012 #17
ROFL. N/T beevul Apr 2012 #22
The way to fix that is to let gejohnston Apr 2012 #12
Hey, bring back dueling, right? Loudly Apr 2012 #14
Court = dueling now?!? X_Digger Apr 2012 #15
ummmmmm gejohnston Apr 2012 #19
I bet you thought nobody would notice huh? beevul Apr 2012 #35
Forensic linguistics. Straw Man Apr 2012 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author Xela Apr 2012 #94
121 people are killed a day in auto accidents guess we should ban cars RegieRocker Apr 2012 #9
This is DU bongbong Apr 2012 #13
Something you have extensive experience in AH1Apache Apr 2012 #18
rofl bongbong Apr 2012 #26
Does that include you?? CokeMachine Apr 2012 #21
Really? bongbong Apr 2012 #27
If the connection between HALO141 Apr 2012 #33
Nope bongbong Apr 2012 #36
ZR1 Corvette with 658 hp would be a good example RegieRocker Apr 2012 #38
Yes! bongbong Apr 2012 #39
Yes, you can hunt with handguns. ManiacJoe Apr 2012 #40
I witnessed a friend of my father running through the woods and shooting deer RegieRocker Apr 2012 #42
more judgemental than courious gejohnston Apr 2012 #41
The only rofalmao is others about your lack RegieRocker Apr 2012 #43
Or anything else he posts about. oneshooter Apr 2012 #47
The last two deer I took guitar man Apr 2012 #44
Less foolish AH1Apache Apr 2012 #45
Ok guitar man Apr 2012 #46
Yawn bongbong Apr 2012 #49
Even "usually" is almost certainly far from accurate... ToolMaker Apr 2012 #50
LOL bongbong Apr 2012 #52
And another golden mantra of the anti gun crowd AH1Apache Apr 2012 #54
And another golden mantra of the gun-religionists bongbong Apr 2012 #55
My rebuttal... ToolMaker Apr 2012 #58
Yes bongbong Apr 2012 #59
Goose, meet gander... ToolMaker Apr 2012 #61
Hmmm. bongbong Apr 2012 #62
There aren't enough events to go around to be any different.. X_Digger Apr 2012 #63
Sorry Charlie bongbong Apr 2012 #64
I deal in facts. Sorry Charlie. gejohnston Apr 2012 #65
Well alright! bongbong Apr 2012 #66
Query NEISS (The CPSC's WISQARs-like tool) X_Digger Apr 2012 #67
Thanks bongbong Apr 2012 #68
Guns are safe when handled properly AH1Apache Apr 2012 #70
aa bongbong Apr 2012 #71
I see your back to your Federalist Paper #29 AH1Apache Apr 2012 #75
well bongbong Apr 2012 #77
what precident? gejohnston Apr 2012 #78
Education for you bongbong Apr 2012 #83
education for you gejohnston Apr 2012 #89
And this same court agreed, thats all 9 justices, AH1Apache Apr 2012 #79
Ho Hum bongbong Apr 2012 #82
Really, that's the best you can do? AH1Apache Apr 2012 #84
aaa bongbong Apr 2012 #87
How about we take the number of basketballs sold in the last 5 years? Since those older than that.. X_Digger Apr 2012 #73
Ho Ho HO bongbong Apr 2012 #76
Lol, you keep hefting those goal posts, don't you? X_Digger Apr 2012 #80
NO goal post moving bongbong Apr 2012 #81
Hell, if I wanted to remove non-equivalence, I'd take out crimes committed with guns. X_Digger Apr 2012 #85
aa bongbong Apr 2012 #86
You can stand it when someone actually shows you how wrong you are, can you? X_Digger Apr 2012 #88
Why even bother posting stats? AH1Apache Apr 2012 #69
although he does not explain gejohnston Apr 2012 #72
It's not for him, he's telling lawyers they're wrong about law in another thread. X_Digger Apr 2012 #74
I didn't put words in your mouth, HALO141 Apr 2012 #51
Uh Uh bongbong Apr 2012 #53
People like you are the best thing for the 2A AH1Apache Apr 2012 #56
2nd Amendment bongbong Apr 2012 #93
That is a freakin out right lie. Total thru and thru B.S.!!! RegieRocker Apr 2012 #90
adf bongbong Apr 2012 #92
The primary purpose of all guns is to kill people RegieRocker May 2012 #98
NO, guns are designed to get a projectile from Point A to Point B really quickly. Common Sense Party May 2012 #99
aa bongbong May 2012 #100
Your post is childish drivel, a common reaction of those who realize they have lost an argument. Common Sense Party May 2012 #101
Self-declarations of victory bongbong May 2012 #102
Then why did you post because RegieRocker Apr 2012 #37
I am on your side, but that is a really dumb counterpoint. Logical May 2012 #103
Avoidance of truth and claiming it is dumb is ludicrous. RegieRocker May 2012 #105
"and deeply embedded in the Republican party" ellisonz Apr 2012 #24
After the first 2 sentences I suspect the author requires the following form: Callisto32 Apr 2012 #32
Give us time. We will get it up to 100/100. N/T GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #57
I have a suggestion. Straw Man Apr 2012 #60
90 posts, and not a peep from the OP? Straw Man Apr 2012 #91
I tend to ignore really dumb posts, unless they're funny. DanTex May 2012 #96
Uh-huh. Straw Man May 2012 #97
Gary Younge, what a joke Xela Apr 2012 #95
meh. Tuesday Afternoon May 2012 #104
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»America's deadly devotion...»Reply #61