A Vanguard documentary is saying guns can be sold to criminals w/o ID, paperwork

[gejohnston]

10. more logical fallacies and straw men

The whole truth is that, in many states, guns can easily be bought by criminals without going through a background check. All they need to do is find an unlicensed dealer -- i.e. someone who's not officially in the business of buying and selling guns for a living. And it's easy to find such people, for example, on the internet, or at gun shows.

If criminals can find unlicensed dealers, so can the ATF. If the gun goes across state lines, the gun must go to an FFL where the background check will take place and any local laws will must be met.

Moreover, it would be easy to close this loophole, and in fact legislation has been proposed to do just that. Polls show this is supported by large majorities, on the order of 80% or more. Which makes sense, after all, what kind of nut would think you should be able to buy a gun without a background check?

Straw man, I did not say I opposed it. I said it would be best to do it on the state level. Some states do.

And this has nothing to do with the constitution, it's purely about money and ideology. Can you cite any serious constitutional scholars who think that this would violate the commerce clause, or did you just pick this up on some loony gun blog? I'm guessing loony gun blog...

Intrastate private between two individuals not in business. It seems common sense. The Constitution says what the SCOTUS says, for all practical purposes.

And the second point is that guns from the US, including guns bought through the gun show loophole, are major contributors to the escalation of gun violence in Mexico. Once again, almost all serious observers are in agreement here. The dissent comes mainly from gun blogs and NRA press releases, neither of which is known for being particularly reliable or honest...

I didn't know Wikileaks and CBS were part of the NRA propaganda machine. What NRA press releases and gun blogs did I quote? "serious observers" there is a logical fallacy for that. The only ones claiming that "the gun show loophole" has anything to with it are propagandists from VPC, and naive bloggers at Think Progress.

The trace data shows that huge numbers of the weapons come from the US. On the other hand, there is no evidence of weapons coming from anywhere other than the US in significant numbers. Of course, that doesn't stop people like you from offering speculation (the NRA's favorite form of argument) and anecdotes (the NRA's favorite kind of evidence) to the contrary. And to a small extent, you are right, a fraction of the weapons used by Mexican drug gangs come from elsewhere.

The GOA disagrees, that is where the graph comes from. Wikileaks cables says bullshit.

But, like I said, the quantifiable hard evidence, along with the opinions of most serious observers (e.g. both Mexican and US agents and officials, and even cartel members) point to the US civilian market as the main source of guns fueling Mexican cartel violence. From a recent Guardian article on the topic.

Sorry, I'll lean towards Latin American Times and Wikileaks. Like I said, why would they buy pistols and semi autos at some gun show (a place full of cops and ATF) instead of buying full autos in bulk for less. It defies logic.

Yes, I know, FOX and WorldNetDaily tell a different story. Must be that "liberal media bias"...

That is your standard meme, false claims that anyone who disagrees with your conventional wisdom are right wing. Give one example where I used WND as a source.