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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » Looking for a well-regula... » Reply #37

Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #35)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 11:06 AM

37. Again, purpose, not scope.

You seem to think that the bill of rights is exhaustive. That if it isn't explicitly spelled out in the bill of rights, it isn't a right.

That is not an interpretation that any court has supported, and flies in the face of the ninth and tenth amendments.

[div class='excerpt']Here, the construction is essentially the same as the Second A." Since I'm completely out of soda, therefore I think I'm going to go grocery shopping." The only fact you can glean with certainty from that is that you're going grocery shopping to buy some more soda.


But it does not set the scope of what I may buy, nor what stores sell. Just as the second amendment does not set the scope of the right protected. It just explains why the right is protected.

[div class='excerpt']The second example is confused: "Pizza being useful for late-night study sessions, the right to grow and harvest tomatoes shall not be infringed." -- are tomatoes only to be used for pizza sauce?

This statement is a complete non sequitur. Since pizza is useful for late-night study sessions, therefore what ?

Pizza is the why, tomatoes is the essential component of that purpose to be protected. Just as in the second amendment.

[div class='excerpt']The point is that all attempts to force the plain language must by definition not take into account the existence of the qualifier "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...". The fact that the Framers "... expected people to defend themselves with arms, not just use them for militias..." as you state would clearly have supported the construction of an Amendment that simply stated that 'The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". But it didn't.

Again, you're trying to shoehorn modern english sensibilities into an 18th century document. They weren't fortune tellers- they had no idea that 200+ years later people would chide them for their language choices based on what english writers would do today for clarity.

If you look at their writings of the time, you can see it clearly-

[div class='excerpt']We established however some, although not all its {self-government} important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;
-Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824

Conceived it to be the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made.
-Roger Sherman, House debate, 1790

The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside... Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them....
-Writings of Thomas Paine, 1894

As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives only moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks.
-Thomas Jefferson, writing to his teenaged nephew

And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.
-Samuel Adams

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DetlefK Mar 2012 OP
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COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #35
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply Again, purpose, not scope.
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