Gun Control & RKBA

hack89

(39,171 posts)

26. Police are the biggest threat to your civil liberities

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 11:49 PM

Dec 2011

racial profiling, warrant-less wire taps and searches, entrapment, beating OWS protestors - any of those ring a bell? And you want to leave your Constitutional rights to their discretion? Really?

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14-year-old boy dies after West Homestead shooting [View all] ellisonz Dec 2011 OP

Since what you posted was the whole article, what was it that you wanted to discuss? ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #1

Where do you think the three guns came from? ellisonz Dec 2011 #2

Good questions. rrneck Dec 2011 #5

I KNEW you had some comments just waiting to be attached. ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #6

Would you care to consider any root causes? ellisonz Dec 2011 #9

I am game for considering. What are you offering? ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #12

Sure. ellisonz Dec 2011 #13

how about checking out some of the laws gejohnston Dec 2011 #14

If the police don't think you need a gun... ellisonz Dec 2011 #15

so you want the elitist system like NYC gejohnston Dec 2011 #17

"The police are inherently authoritarian and right wing. They should have no arbitrary power." ellisonz Dec 2011 #18

you lost credibility when gejohnston Dec 2011 #21

Bahahaha... ellisonz Dec 2011 #23

I have respect for cops gejohnston Dec 2011 #36

They already do... ellisonz Dec 2011 #38

Well, you implied deference to the police, after all. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #75

Sure -- let's just give the police the right of refusal on ALL our rights. Straw Man Dec 2011 #20

I'm a Liberal. What are you? ellisonz Dec 2011 #22

Yet you want to give the police the final say in my civil liberties? That's a liberal position? nt hack89 Dec 2011 #27

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #30

So why do so many liberals here at DU disagree with you about gun control? hack89 Dec 2011 #33

I'm not restricting your rights. ellisonz Dec 2011 #37

No - you are restricting my rights hack89 Dec 2011 #42

not really gejohnston Dec 2011 #43

Gun-control is NOT liberal, it is recent pop politics... SteveW Dec 2011 #76

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #82

Why not? Is there something untrue about it? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #85

don't know much about history do you? gejohnston Dec 2011 #93

I'm not an expert on gun law history. ellisonz Dec 2011 #94

No kidding.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #99

But at least I know about child safety seats... ellisonz Dec 2011 #100

I do too. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #106

yea, you're still in one one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #143

Nothing left but personal attacks... ellisonz Dec 2011 #145

Having only a superficial knowledge of the gun restriction issue (at *best*) Simo 1939_1940 Dec 2011 #170

Check-mated again, eh? SteveW Dec 2011 #142

No. ellisonz Dec 2011 #146

Fact is, We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #148

Yet another cartoon ripe for NRA royalty payments... SteveW Dec 2011 #173

For the most part people didn't own dozens of guns... ellisonz Dec 2011 #174

Yet ANOTHER NRA royalty check! Well, that's one way to defund the NRA... SteveW Dec 2011 #175

"Gun control is a liberal position" Simo 1939_1940 Dec 2011 #171

I'm a left-libertarian and a registered Democrat. Straw Man Dec 2011 #32

It's already up to the whims of the police... ellisonz Dec 2011 #34

Wild Wild West = historically low rates of gun violence? Really. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #39

If you get rid of the current gun controls...yes. n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #41

So lets leave things exactly the way they are. hack89 Dec 2011 #44

Or we could make them better! n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #47

Why tilt at windmills? There are more important and easier things to do. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #54

Why accept this level of gun violence? n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #62

The problem is not the guns We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #63

We have the technology. n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #65

What technology do you believe we have? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #67

Then you're in willful denial. ellisonz Dec 2011 #69

Excuse me? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #77

Hope you never need the police... ellisonz Dec 2011 #80

Whether or not i need them is irrelevant We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #90

The police have neither the ability nor obligation to protect citizens. Fair Witness Dec 2011 #110

They have the obligation to uphold the law - to protect and serve. ellisonz Dec 2011 #118

The police have no obligation to protect you, unless you are in their custody. n/t oneshooter Dec 2011 #126

That's not true - they have an obligation to public safety. ellisonz Dec 2011 #127

Nope - they dont We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #134

I do live more or less in the "boonies"...as do millions of Americans. I hope you are not Fair Witness Dec 2011 #147

I'm suggesting you consider others rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... ellisonz Dec 2011 #153

They are considered We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #156

Your knowledge of civics is abysmal. "...life, liberty and the pursuit..." is from the Declaration Fair Witness Dec 2011 #158

But he feels so strongly.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #160

The Nineth Amendment is quite clear... ellisonz Dec 2011 #162

I wrote reports on crimes that had already been committed. This was a semi-major urban city. Fair Witness Dec 2011 #163

"As to where criminals get their guns, how is that germane to the discussion?" ellisonz Dec 2011 #168

But you *do* have an "UNprogressive agenda"- you support the Patriot Act. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #165

You can debate with these Democrats who voted for the extension... ellisonz Dec 2011 #167

I am debating with *you*, and I stand with Bernie Sanders and these Dems in opposition: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #169

Every years it declines further - you have never been safer hack89 Dec 2011 #70

Reducing the supply of illegal guns through common sense measures would go a long way. ellisonz Dec 2011 #71

Why not? It is a public health issue - lets take the criminality out of it hack89 Dec 2011 #72

"Of course drug rehab will be offered free to all that want it" ellisonz Dec 2011 #78

If you want to buy me a gun safe go ahead. hack89 Dec 2011 #87

Several of the other posters here have them... ellisonz Dec 2011 #92

They are locked up - just angling for a bigger safe so I can grow my collection. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #96

Good. ellisonz Dec 2011 #97

Storage requirements not a problem providing they don't interfere with home defense. hack89 Dec 2011 #98

Requiring it? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #103

I'll pass on the trigger locks - at least for my self defense gun. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #89

Since this decline coincides with a general relaxing of gun control laws hack89 Dec 2011 #73

the wild wild west gejohnston Dec 2011 #46

Wasn't that a T.V. show? nt SteveW Dec 2011 #79

One of my favorites. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #88

Yeah it gejohnston Dec 2011 #95

Yeah, I saw the series frequently -- quite a jump-the-shark fantasy... SteveW Dec 2011 #139

Police are the biggest threat to your civil liberities hack89 Dec 2011 #26

Wrong. ellisonz Dec 2011 #28

They are militarized because of the war on drugs hack89 Dec 2011 #29

They're militarized because the war on drugs coincides with a massive... ellisonz Dec 2011 #31

As long as the police have no discretion I have no problem with a background check hack89 Dec 2011 #35

No, that's the *courts* determining that right, via due process friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #40

Fundamental misconception... Straw Man Dec 2011 #45

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #48

being arrested for gejohnston Dec 2011 #49

Do you really not get it? Straw Man Dec 2011 #50

Umm, please re-take 10th grade civics. X_Digger Dec 2011 #52

The police decide who gets arrested and then charged in the first place. ellisonz Dec 2011 #84

The police do not always decide who gets arrested. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #91

I have a reality based view of the police force. ellisonz Dec 2011 #114

Does not appear that you do but whatever. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #135

You've never been in a warrant court, have you? X_Digger Dec 2011 #109

No, the police only arrest. The DA charges. PavePusher Dec 2011 #113

They go to court We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #57

The police perform arrestd based on either witnessing a crime, having a warrant or Fair Witness Dec 2011 #111

Funny how prohibition works... SteveW Dec 2011 #81

If the police don't think you need to vote? If the police don't think you need to demonstrate? X_Digger Dec 2011 #51

They are responsible for public safety. ellisonz Dec 2011 #53

The Patriot Act was to ensure public safety hack89 Dec 2011 #56

Yes. Next question. ellisonz Dec 2011 #117

So you support the Patriot Act? That explains a lot. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #120

So does the President, Congress and the Courts... ellisonz Dec 2011 #123

No unlimited right to privacy? hack89 Dec 2011 #124

Don't answer my question. ellisonz Dec 2011 #125

No - of course not. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #130

Then please denounce the idea that... ellisonz Dec 2011 #131

So the Scalia of his day has the final word? Burger was a conservative Republican. hack89 Dec 2011 #132

The ends justify any means, for some... friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #133

You are the first liberal gejohnston Dec 2011 #164

I'm not saying that at all. ellisonz Dec 2011 #166

That's why he was so offended by one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #144

No, actually they arent. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #58

I can understant why you wouldn't want discuss the other civil liberties protected under the BoR. aikoaiko Dec 2011 #61

The whats the opposite? ellisonz Dec 2011 #116

the opposite of arbitary rules is rationale rules aikoaiko Dec 2011 #121

That's not an answer. Care to take another swing? n/t X_Digger Dec 2011 #108

And we come to the police state. PavePusher Dec 2011 #55

In general, the police are not qualified to make mental health judgments.... aikoaiko Dec 2011 #60

What about a police psychologist? ellisonz Dec 2011 #66

Do rank-and-file police like to use their own psychologists? SteveW Dec 2011 #83

They could rotate departments... ellisonz Dec 2011 #86

There are plenty people who consider liberals to be "mentally ill", per se. Fair Witness Dec 2011 #112

And most of them agree with the shared opinion of the pro-gun crowd in this forum... ellisonz Dec 2011 #115

My answer is in the law: If one is adjudicated mentally incompetent, no. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #136

Do you care about the victims of gun violence enough to want to do something real about it? n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #104

Not at the expense of my rights We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #107

"to make a victim feel better?" ellisonz Dec 2011 #119

My answer is in the law: If one is adjudicated mentally incompetent, no. SteveW Dec 2011 #137

So basically you're for leaving a loophole Jared Lee Loughner could drive a truck through? ellisonz Dec 2011 #155

No loophole at all. Just a relative of "unfunded mandates..." SteveW Dec 2011 #172

Any forensic clinical psychologist could, but there aren't many of them aikoaiko Dec 2011 #101

So why not have a real net. Clearly, people are getting through the way its currently designed. ellisonz Dec 2011 #102

Some are, but the safety net I'm talking about is not just about gun possession. aikoaiko Dec 2011 #105

I disagree with none of what you said there. ellisonz Dec 2011 #151

By the way, how would you suggest to accomplish "free Tibet" without armed force? Fair Witness Dec 2011 #149

I'll nibble. ellisonz Dec 2011 #150

The Brits were being gentlemen We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #152

Again, stop butting in on other peoples discussion. ellisonz Dec 2011 #154

Does it bother you? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #157

Are you fucking serious? Fair Witness Dec 2011 #159

Does he speak for you? ellisonz Dec 2011 #161

I don't defer to the police when it comes to my rights... SteveW Dec 2011 #74

Just to bring you up to date a little Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #64

Newspapers, blogs and their websites are secondary sources, try the primary source o get up to date. russ1943 Dec 2011 #122

Thank you sir for your diligent research Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #129

I am glad they are improving gejohnston Dec 2011 #128

Hey! I think I figured it out! rrneck Dec 2011 #138

Good idea, but unfortunately it wouldn't work Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #140

Of course by the same token rrneck Dec 2011 #141

An engaging set of ideas. ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #16

Thank you. ellisonz Dec 2011 #19

"common sense measures" Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #176

Make it illegal to steal other people's stuff? nt Remmah2 Dec 2011 #24

Lock up your guns? n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #25

And, do you have a point or rl6214 Dec 2011 #3

See post #2. ellisonz Dec 2011 #4

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #7

WWM2kD? hidden criminals, gun show loophole, private sale, stolen guns. ileus Dec 2011 #8

Need a translation: WWM2kD ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #11

Its a play on WWJD... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #59

Yah, the M2k part had me confused. ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #68

sounds like a business dispute gejohnston Dec 2011 #10